*** MSI 16L13 (Eurocom Tornado F5)/EVOC 16L-G-1080 15.6" Owner's Lounge ***

Yup clamp down. Thanks!

 

Has anyone else had problems with a disconnecting Thunderbolt port? I am not sure if this could be related to the fact that the M.2 SSD is not visible in the BIOS PCIe drives list (although it did appear again briefly following an NVRAM reset).

After a fresh install of Windows 10, following the NVRAM wipe - the Thunderbolt port definitely installed correctly and was visible. It is still showing in device manager, greyed out if you reveal hidden devices, not working, device disconnected (Code 45).

 

I use it with my phone to charge all the time (USB C phone) and also to transfer files. I have not had any issues, although this isn't really high bandwidth it does speed charge at the 3amps with no issues.

And also in your sig you have fingbook, not fangbook

 

Cheers. Which BIOS and EC are you using?

At the moment it is about as much use as an f'ing book.

 

Cheers. Which BIOS and EC are you using?

At the moment it is about as much use as an f'ing book.[/QUOTE]
Sorry to hear that, I have a fangbook here also that I am selling. It's a great laptop.. I will get back to you on the EC and BIOS, on my work computer right now. It is the stock version from Dec/Jan I have not updated Bios/EC at all.

 

I was probably being a bit harsh, the laptop itself is damn good - however, I am having a few niggles with it and CyberpowerPC (UK)

 

Based off my results so far, my MSI 16L13 is beating the crap out of my P775DM3. The unified heatsink in the P775DM3 is the likely culprit. This is not the say the P775DM3 isn't a great DTR, it is. It isn't the best OC'er due to the thermal limitations. A lot more to come when I post my MSI 16L13 VS P775DM3 article.

 

I'm really interested in reading your comparison. Tag me when you post your thread so I don't miss it. Thanks!

 

p775DM3 being 17inch one would assume it to perform better thn MSI, really interested to read your review.

 

Alriight ! So I just received my Eurocom Tornado F5, but i'm still at work so I wont be unboxing until late tonight..and OS is on the way too(arrive monday). Hope it wont be a lemon. Any suggestion on the benchmark programs except firestrike and prime95? I want to stress test cpu gpu and rams.

PS: Awesome delivery speed!! Although its mostly because I live in montreal, which is close to Eurocom, I received my order today and it was shipped yesterday! +1 @Eurocom Support

 

yeah the MSI heatsink seems to be ways better than the Clevo one.

 

Hi! Does anybody know if there are any differences between the f5 and fangbook? Does the fangbook come with the same FHD panel (lp156wf6-spb1) like the f5?

 

The Fangbook 4 chassis is a 16L111-309 and the screen is an LG Philips LP156WF6 (Dell 3874Y).

 

Thank you @madeinholt, the screen seems to be similar to the wf6-spb1 but, with lower contrast and higher black level!

 

From Eurocom on Facebook messenger.

 

I hope it doesn't require shipping off the computer to them, just saying.

 

Likewise

Good to hear though, can't imagine GSYNC support is far behind

 

Ordered my 1080 EVOC from HID/Donald yesterday. Going to pair this with the delidded processor, 32gb HyperX ram, 1TB seagate SSHD (7200 rpm ver), 960 Samsung Pro, Intel wireless, 120hz screen. I had the GT62 from MSI with a 1070 in it and loved pretty much everything about it minus the processor; this laptop will be my perfect laptop if the temps can remain calm.

Here is to hoping we get the g-sync support soon. this will be my first machine with a 120hz panel. I will post some pics/mini-review if anyone wants it once I get everything setup. I will be coming from a 4770k overclocked to 4.5ghz+1080 desktop that I plan on soon retiring.

 

I'm currently investigating into why my P775DM3 1080's core clock can't go beyond 180+ whereas my MSI 16L13 can do 250+. All things equal, CPU @ 4.5, GPU Core +100, Memory +300, my P775DM3 does overpower the MSI 16L13 (as it should). Things get very interesting when I OC the CPU to 4.9/5.0.

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/12132278/fs/12132169

 

@Rage Set pls post the temperatures for comparison!

 

Straight from my comparison article:

MSI 16L13


Clevo P775DM3

 

At this level, the differences in performance and temperature aren't considerable. There's a slight advantage in performance for p775 and apparently a slight temperature advantage for msi 16l13. I wonder how much will these change at max potential.
Can't wait to see the whole review, this is like a cliffhanger for GoT!

 

I would not get your hopes up for that g-crap support.

 

I feel stupid for asking, but can someone tell me what PS3/PS4 enabled in bios mean?

 

G-sync is good though, I've found it good, you don't like it, what's wrong with it?

 

Without any googling & without knowing the answer I make a wild guess of Power State 3 / Power State 4. Could be way off, and as to what Power State 3 & 4 I have no idea!

 

With a gtx 1080, that book should have no problems hitting 120 fps at 1080p for many games. Gsync is best for smoothing out stutter when you can't manage a stable 60 fps and for eliminating screen tearing when your frame time can't keep up with the refresh rate of the screen. I'd imagine there's a layer of interpolation for screens with really high refresh rates to eliminate screen tearing above a minimum fps expectation.

 

Hm I just observed that the Driver versions are different
"Driver version 21.21.13.7878 21.21.13.7849"

Is this possible reason for the graphics performance difference?

 

There might be a small difference between display drivers, but nothing that would give the P775DM3 a massive gain. To make the comparisons fair and complete, I will mod the latest DD for the MSI 16L13.

To have a machine like the 16L13 that can keep pace with the P775DM3 makes me believe the 17'' revision should outshine the mighty P870DM2 if the cooling is up to par. That's for a future edition of Rage Set's VS.

 

Thanks for the answer. What do you mean by layer of interpolation? The way I understand it - the screen just matches it's refresh rate to the GPU, I don't know what you mean by interpolation, or are you talking about when the framerate is BELOW the lowest screen refresh rate that the monitor can do - (some info I've read just now points to below 30fps which is fine, who's gonna game at those low frame rates)? I've got a 144Hz G-sync monitor for my desktop, and I think G-sync is great, it's been working flawlessly, although I've mainly been playing games in the 100-144fps region.

 

I'm not sure on these panels and how they handle their refresh specifically, but many panels can use multiples of the internal refresh rate by duplicating frames. For example, if your screen refreshes at 120 Hz, but you're only capable of running 60 fps, then the panel may be able to duplicate every frame displaying the same frames twice. That is interpolation. Some panels can do extrapolation, meaning they project where the pixel colors are moving to and create frames based on that information. Once again, I'm not sure what these panels are entirely capable of. There is definitely enough processing power that they should be able to simply use multiples of the refresh rate to output.

Edit. Wrt producing 30 fps - that is entirely possible with a gtx 1080 at 4k. That's when gsync becomes important. Gsync will smooth out the perceived frame rate and do its best to eliminate screen tear.

 

I'm pretty sure G-sync monitors will not take a game that is producing in the region of 60fps and then interpolate to 120fps or whatever - that's not gonna happen - it'll just lower refresh rate to 60Hz in that case (or whatever framerate the GPU is capable of outputting). That's the whole point of G-sync. I think below 30 fps then you can have interpolation from what I've read, but above that you've got crystal clear G-sync matching your Hz with your fps.

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear, my explanation was for panel tech in general not specifically for how gsync operates. I'm not sure what gsync uses to smooth perceived frame rates or how it eliminates screen tear when possible.

Interpolation doesn't require much for processing. It only displays 1 frame multiple times depending on the frame time. If the frame time would eventually lead to 20 fps then that one frame needs to be displayed as well as two duplicate frames to hit a 60 Hz refresh rate.

 

Oh, ok, that's confusing because we were clearly talking about G-sync. It's ok though - but to be clear G-sync makes the screen refresh rate equal the frames per second (whatever framerate your GPU happens to be outputting at any given time) - it eliminates tearing, and as far as I can see there are no downsides.

 

I've read that gsync can increase the input lag to a slight degree. I am not sure if it is substantial enough to matter or if it is circumstantial. Really though, when we are talking about a gtx 1080 and a 1080p 120 Hz panel gsync really isn't doing much from what I understand.

 

G-sync can increase input lag when you reach the max refresh rate of the monitor, because it reverts to normal V-sync mode at that point. You can get around this by using a frame rate limiter - RivaTuner Statistics Server program is often touted as the best way to minimise latency in this case - by setting the framerate to say 142 fps if you have a 144Hz G-sync Monitor - this way there is zero extra input lag. So I suppose there is one negative to G-sync, but you can work round this so that there are effectively zero issues.

 

Thanks for the tip! I haven't used gsync, but looked into whether or not I'd need it. I'm going with the 1080p 120 Hz panel on my build, but I had considered a 3k screen (inconsistent verbage...) in which case gsync would almost be necessary. I am a big display tech nerd so I get what can occur on regular panels. I'm not entirely clear on what methods gsync uses to work its magic. If you have more info on that I'd love to learn.

 

Gsync is also gonna be very useful for a 120Hz panel too. Hmm, more info on G-sync and how it works. My understanding is that there is a G-sync module from NVidia within the monitor housing - it somehow enables the screen refresh rate to be locked in sync with a fluctuating fps that comes from the GPU, how it actually does this I do not know - I suppose it just 'tells' the screen to refresh as soon as a 'frame' passes through it's module. I've seen latency testing on CS-GO in association with G-sync, and there is no increased latency if you apply the fix I talked about in my last post.

 

@Robbo99999 I have heard that gsync makes the experience extremely smooth. How does it accomplish this if it is lowering the refresh rate of the screen to match the output? That would make sense to eliminate screen tearing, but it wouldn't it also potentially allow the output to be erratic between 30 and 60 fps which could cause micro stuttering and possible judder? Motion at less than 60 fps is also much less smooth. Does gsync use some type of motion blur as an optical work around?

 

What benefit does gsync offer to a 120 hz 1080p panel when you can easily push 120 fps to the panel? Gsync seemed like more of a fix for when you can't sustain higher frame rates...

 

There are no extra motion blur effects. G-sync simply removes screen tearing (or rather doesn't let it happen in the first place!). Screen tearing is a jarring experience that could possibly be described as reducing the smoothness of the experience. Screen tearing just creates visual anomolies on the screen - for example in a fast paced competetive shooter you're gonna miss some details & potentially become disorientated from the screen tear artifact - for me Gsync helps me absorb more accurately whats happening on the screen. (google for some visual images of screen tearing if you don't know what it looks like and how visually distorting it can be)

GTX 1080 can't push all games at max details to a minimum of 120fps at all times - this is where G-sync is gonna help - simples!

 

Gsync simply matches the refresh rate of the monitor to the output of the gpu unless the output drops below 30 fps. I understand now. While I see how that is beneficial on systems that cannot push up to 60 fps. How beneficial is it really beyond that point with a screen that can refresh as fast as your gpu can output while maintaining a fps rate that is fast enough for small inconsistencies to be indiscernible? For example, if I limit max fps to 119 fps on a 120 hz panel and adjust the settings where dropping to 70 fps is uncommon, I am not really going to notice stutter and appearance of tearing would be very minimal, right? Gsync would only really be helpful if my minimum fps allowed the inconsistencies to be noticed. Am I missing something? I can see how Gsync would be nice, but for most games with a gtx 1080 on a 1080p screen it seems like a small benefit.

 

Tearing is gonna be there even at high refresh rates if you're not using V-sync or G-Sync - whether or not the phenomenon of tearing is more or less noticeable at high refresh rates I do not know, in terms of high refresh rate screens I've only had experience with a G-sync version (so no tearing). Also, I said before that GTX 1080 can't push 120fps in all games at max details for 100% of the time - hence G-sync is useful in this scenario too - ok, I think we've talked enough about G-sync now, I don't have anything else to add at least.

 

I'll add only this info about G-Sync and tearing without going into much detail
A G-Sync/Freesync monitor waits for the info from the GPU before refreshing its pixels. That info is encapsulated in the frame packets sent from the GPU. Its like a stream of refresh rate info being sent to the monitor continously so the monitor changes its refresh rate on the fly.
Tearing happens when the monitor refreshes at 60Hz and the GPU outputs below that. Say you have a 52fps rate. ~13% of those frames will present tearing (two consecutive frames being displayed at the same time).

 

(tearing can also happen if frame rate above refresh rate of screen).

 

@Robbo99999 I've been posting from my phone making it difficult to post clearly. As an added layer of frustration this site saves the text after a few minutes which causes my phone to become unresponsive. I went back through and re-read the conversation we've had and I can definitely understand how confusing I've been.

I originally believed gsync was developed to accomplish two goals: eliminate screen tearing and smooth micro stutter. I tried to imagine how gsync may have smoothed motion by comparing smoothing tech to what has traditionally been done with other panels. From your explanation, I now know that gsync doesn't actually smooth out motion. Instead it limits your fps to the output of the panel and syncs the fps to the refresh rate thus creating a stable image(?). Correct me wherever I'm wrong. If I'm understanding this correctly, then gsync would be terrible for most games at 1080p on a 60 Hz screen with the gtx 1080. If utilized it would effectively undermine all the potential of the gpu and limit input response time by limiting max fps you'd want to render. Even at 120 Hz gsync is a toss up between a very stable image and better input response time. It seems like you're basically giving up running extreme fps when possible for the amount of time the gpu dips into frame rates that are sub 90s (depending on personal sensitivity to tearing). The faster the refresh rate the more imperceptible tearing becomes. I'd imagine gsync becomes more viable at 1080p for the gtx 1080 on 144 Hz panels or greater frequencies if they made them - refresh rates that are very difficult to max out fps on. In this case there would be no compromise if the gpu failed to maintain higher fps for long enough durations. So the trade becomes do I value ultimate response time or the most stable image? Right? Now at greater resolutions gsync becomes much more valuable especially when the gtx 1080 just can't keep up with the maximum refresh rate. Then you'd get all the benefits of a super stable image without having to sacrifice minimum input response times; unless you'd prefer to drop settings to maximize frame rates. Then gsync would once again become a hindrance.

Deciding on gsync is going to come down to are you the type of person who sacrifices details to maximize your fps or do you prefer a stable image above everything else. Of course there is a limit to where input response time improvement doesn't net any measurable gain and that is going to be different for each person as well.

 

Does anyone know the largest 2.5" drive that will fit in this laptop? Specifically, will a 15mm 2.5" drive fit?

 

No, the largest 2.5" is 9.5mm

 

Been away for a while (moving, work, etc.).. Has the 120hz screen been "fixed" for backlight adjustment and have g-sync support yet?

 

Not yet...but we are hopeful that it will be resolved in April.