The Official MSI GT73VR Owners and Discussions Lounge

Thanks, iunlock.
I made sure when I applied foam that it was not close to the LM. The foam doesn't touch the silicon at all; I cut it out in a larger shape so that there was plenty of room. I only had it so that if any Conductive Balls of Death happened to fall off along the heatsink side somehow, it would catch on the foam and not keep going onto the motherboard. There was several mm of space between the edge of the BGA silicon and the foam. I also made very sure I didn't apply too much Conductonaut. I saw the horror pictures from too much LM on other photos so I had to put my OCD to work to make sure I didn't apply too much. There was a bit too much at first so I used the other Qtip thing to take some of it up and kept spreading the remainder until I was satisfied. I also "tinned" the heatsink with a SUPER thin layer (basically, from what was on the Qtip). Temps are great; we'll see how it lasts though. Great post and thank you.

 

You do realize the foam is already severely compressed and not touching anything with liquid metal on it, right? If, in the unlikely event a tiny bead of liquid metal were to escape, the foam would only have the potential to absorb that one tiny bead, and having that there is better than nothing whatsoever to stop the bead going somewhere else more dangerous.

It is not making contact with the liquid metal. The square opening in the center is notably larger than the die and there is a decent amount of air space around the perimeter of the die. The opening is larger than the surface mounted components around the die. Any liquid metal that would come into contact with it would have already moved away from where it was placed and the foam is only there to stop it from going any further. Chances of it coming into contact with the foam are no greater than the liquid metal coming into contact with something else far more hazardous that the foam. And, the foam would only absorb the droplet that strayed from the die. It is only there as a containment barrier in the off chance a droplet strays from where it was placed. Placing it in direct contact would be a huge mistake and that would begin to immediately wick it away and load it up like a sponge.

Using the correct amount of liquid metal is key to success in all cases. If you use too much you can expect the probability that tragedy will find you. People that do not know what they are doing, or those that are haphazard or accident prone, shouldn't be using liquid metal paste to begin with. The chances of them ruining expensive components on their notebook are great.

@Eurocom Support has shown me examples of 2 or 3 systems that have been returned to them where liquid metal is all over the place inside of the chassis. The chances of it escaping due to unusually rough handling while shipping are great. Boxes are abused like a rag doll by shippers. I and another member of this forum, both experienced liquid metal users and never had any problems with it al all, have sold laptops to others that were destroyed by the time they reached their final destination as a result of abnormally rough handling in transit. Even if you know what you're doing, it's a good idea to remove the liquid metal and apply conventional thermal paste before shipping it.

 

Another option I have considered is to cut a piece of plastic the same shape as the foam (instead of the foam) and lay a super thin bead of RTV silicon around the outer perimeter of the PCB for the die (outside the area of the surface mounted components on the die). Then lay the piece of plastic on top of the silicon, and assemble immediately before the RTV silicon dries. The plastic would only be there to prevent the silicon from gluing the heat sink to the GPU, the silicon would squish down to the right thickness while it was still wet, making an impenetrable containment barrier or gasket. It might be advisable to leave a small air space for "breathing" purposes at one corner. I may try this as well.

I am probably going to do the foam barrier thing on the CPU as well. I would make the square opening in the center the same size as the CPU latching mechanism (again having a huge air space between it and the liquid metal on the die). With the Kaptop tape bridging the opening between the IHS and the latching mechanism to seal off passage to the CPU socket and motherboard, this would make it nearly impossible for the liquid metal to escape if a droplet were to ever stray from where it was placed. It would be trapped with nowhere to go.

Edit: For those that are worried about the foam, I added the following clarification to my video description:

 

@Mr. Fox
Found something you may be interested in.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...esktop-s-processor-lines-datasheet-vol-1.html

Doesn't seem to explain anything about "PS Current Threshold" but it does seem to explain exactly what "Platform power limit" is compared to "Package power limit." Seems like Platform Power Limit values are disabled by default and are designed to be used with a "Psys" value. Seems like the Psys Power setting needs to be used in tandem with the Platform Power Limit values. It isn't clear what PLATFORM means however. It seems like it means "Processor and rest of platform" (huh?), and that information is sent to the processor....(still unhelpful if the EC is limiting max power draw and changing stuff like not allowing more than 230W power draw if a GTX 1070 is inserted, even with a 330W PSU ?...(idk, I think @Prema confirmed that though).

Not a single mention about PS Current Threshold. Even though it's in the same area as the Psys Power setting.

Wonder if PS current threshold is MSI's cancer to limit CPU power (did you see my last post on where I said my system was shutting off at 4.4 ghz with AVX/FMA3 before I changed PS Current Threshold1 from 80 to 120?

 

Thanks for the link. I will check that out.

It's really ridiculous that there is almost no detailed information published about BIOS settings that is direct, clear and concise. This mean this, and that means that, and setting this does this, etc. The lack of reliable documentation from Intel is a stinking joke.

Yes, I saw that. If I max out those settings my 16L13 shuts off as well. I can max them all out on the P870 and it never shuts off. It just keeps pulling more and more power (which is exactly what I want it to do). I don't know what the imbeciles at MSI have done to emasculate their laptops, but it makes me reluctant to even consider the idea of including the MSI brand for any of the components if/when I build my next desktop. I'm not impressed with their stupid gimping bull corn... at all. I still love the little 15-inch beast, but it would be a lot more lovable if it still had both of its gonads. There should be no reason for it to be throttled above 4.8GHz. That's totally inexcusable. It should be overclockable to the functionality limits of the CPU with no interference of any kind from the retards at MSI. I don't know that it's firmware induced though. They might have gimped it on the hardware side of the build. @Prema has removed all of the firmware cancer, so that only leaves hardware/engineering defects as the culprit.

I can pull about 130W from the 7700K in my P870. ( Here is an example.) The MSI starts throttling like a wuss machine if I exceed 91W for more than a few seconds. That really pisses me off. If I wanted a cripplied pansybook I would have gone with disposable BGA filth.

 

@Mr. Fox
What happens if you try these settings:
PSYS Power: 300W (this is on a divider, not sure what value will correspond to 300W, but the divider is shown in the Bios).

Platform Power Limit 1 (since you configured Psys power now): 290W
Platform Power Limit 2: 290W
Platform TAU (time limit): 1

PS Current Threshhold1: 140
(change this in Ring/System Agent and GT Unsliced also).
PS Current Threshold 2/3: unchanged.

 

My system still throttles above 4.8GHz with those setting. I think MSI cut corners on the hardware. I don't think @Prema left any stone unturned on eradicating firmware cancer cells.

There is no reason to touch anything with "GT" in the BIOS menus. In fact, Prema BIOS has all of those menu items removed. The GT settings are for the Intel Graphics so there is no reason to change any of them. The onboard Intel graphics are (thankfully) disabled and non-functional on my Clevo and the 16L13. I wish 7700K did not even have integrated graphics. It's kind of stupid that it does.

---

Looks like this guy saw a similar improvement in desktop 1080 (10°C) using Conductonaut

 

Hello.
So my friend just got a gt73vr 6re (6820hk & 1070 & 1080p 120hz) and he is running into some trouble like many other users.

After some research, my best solution actually is to post here and ask for your knowledge

He does have crash while playing on native resolution (1920x1080p). The crash happen very fast, the screen goes white and the game crash or the computer reboot itself depending on the game.
He tried the 86.04.5B.00.8A vbios, no result. Updated motherboard bios and it stills remain.
The only "solution" is to play on another resolution (1280x720 work, enabling DSR and putting it to x4 work too he doesn't have crash with this -yet-)

He told me he can't install intel's HD drivers, he doesn't see the Intel HD in the device manager. Btw same thing happened yesterday with his 1070, it was invisible. He somehow solved it but now the intel is invisible, and I guess the problem might be here ?
I've seen that the computer need SCM but i can't find it anywhere

If you have any solutions please keep me in touch, he's very sad about this and I really want / need to help him out lol

Regards

 

The 8A Bios should work.
Did your friend POWER OFF the laptop and unplug it, after flashing the 8A Bios?
the 8A Bios disabling the "boost 2" clocks does NOT work if the laptop is not completely removed from AC power and a full shutdown done from windows (meaning: No fast shutdown).

 

@Mr. Fox

Not sure how useful this information is, but I seem to know now what PS Current Threshold actually does.
Seems to be related to power phases and power states.

So ok guys,
Since this is "PS Current Threshold 1=20A", is changing 20A to 30A to stop laptops with cancer firmwares from shutting off and rebooting at 90W power draw, going to blow up the motherboard? Or is it just tricking the cancer firmware not to shut off the system at 90W CPU power draw?

(like if ur using too few power phases for 4.4 ghz 91W with AVX /FMA3 load by changing 20A to 30A?)
Sounds like changing the value up (slightly) prevents something from deciding you're drawing too much power and shutting the system down hard.

If that's indeed the case (no magic smoke), MSI's firmware is worse than I thought...

@Prema

 

White screen? You're buddy is in for a long, wild ride trying to get that fixed by MSI, I'm on my third time sending it to their repair depot for white screen issues - https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=286717.0

The reason your friend can't install the Intel video driver is likely due to the fact that the Intel GPU is disabled when the 1070 is enabled. You press the GPU switch, next to the 100% fan speed switch, and reboot in order to switch back and forth between them.

No, there isn't any other way (that I know of) to get around pressing the switch button and rebooting.

The SCM program should be listed under the download section for his laptop, which from what info you gave is here: https://www.msi.com/Laptop/support/GT73VR-6RE-Titan-SLI.html#down-driver

 

The latest MSI Dragon Center v1.2.1707.2501 limits the max overclock now down from 4.2 GHz to 4.1 GHz

 

Maybe they finally have understood they use BGA in their taptops? Or follow a good advice from Intel?

 

Me?
https://no.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein

 

Hey guys. I've posted here a couple times. I got a GT73VR for a good deal on amazon warehouse. It is in pristine condition. Installed 8A vbios so it's stable and runs great. I love the laptop. I decided to register the warranty and keep it. I have about 2 weeks left to decide to return it to amazon. I registered and get this screen from MSi:

OK EDIT HERE: I had posted a screen grab but it has my info on it so I'm going to type what it says:

Thanks for your registration!
warranty registration: notebook, all-in-one PC, desktop
The promotion excluded MOTHERBOARD and GRAPHICS CARD.

etc etc

It appears it's marked as not having a full warranty. Obviously because it's not sold new. I was glad to keep it with a warranty in case the "bad" 1070 card decided to die on me or I get the no video out problem. But with no coverage on the motherboard or GPU, I'm afraid to keep it. I'd probably be better off returning it and spending the extra on a new one. What are your thoughts?

My microcenter has a GT73VR with a 1080 but with the non-K version CPU. It costs a small fortune though. I could go pick it up instead.

 

"Thanks for your registration!
warranty registration: notebook, all-in-one PC, desktop
The promotion excluded MOTHERBOARD and GRAPHICS CARD."

Hmmm, the wording suggests there was a "promotion" going on - like the extra 3 months of warranty added to the 2 year warranty?

I've never heard of a warranty excluding the motherboard and GPU, that's gotta mean something else.

Try opening a ticket against the laptop, ask them to clarify just what the 2 year warranty is covering.

Otherwise, yeah, take it back.

 

either the limit is only for 7Rx or you have new bug, mine still goes to 4.2 max in DGC after update.

 

Hey if anyone's awake,

If you have a 7820HK CPU that is capable of 4.3 ghz+ stable, but not undervolted, or a 6820HK CPU capable of 4.2 ghz+ stable, and using 100% fan speed (default volts on both), and you are NOT using stock thermal paste, can you try running Prime95 with small FFT (with AVX / FMA3 enabled) at the max overclock, (make sure CPU power draw>80W) and please tell me if your system instantly powers off and reboots? (assuming you do NOT reach 99C and throttle, make sure you repasted!). Also state if you have a 1070 or 1080. Make sure you already set ICCMax (VR Current Limit) to 400-480 (100A-120A) first.

(You must draw >85W from the CPU).

 

Does anybody else use Riva Tuner and Dragon Center together? Dragon Center seems to crash anytime I try to access the system monitor tab in the program while RTSS is running. When I try to relaunch the program nothing happens. If I close RTSS, Dragon Center will then launch again.

 

I will try it, but first I need to know how to do it well and get a thermal paste that doesn´t get out of the chip. (As soon as I get back to Spain ill buy kryonaut). I´ve got a question, I´m trying to overclock my 6820hk. At 3.8Ghz with -110mv everything works perfect, but if I get it higher than 3.8Ghz, the frequency of the clocks lowers some times, for example: 4Ghz with an offset of 80mv is stable but the clocks of some cores can lower a bit to 3.8 for a moment. How can I avoid that? Thank you!

By the way, I have unistalled dragon center and installed xtu, afterburner and silent option. Now the negative voltage offset that I set on the BIOS works fine....

 

The frequency is decreasing because you didn't change the ICCMAX (VR Current Limit). You need to change it to 400 in the Bios in the OC section (which is 100 amps). You can also use Intel XTU.

BTW looks like it was Dragon Center that was messing with the negative offset.

Before you change ICCMax in the Bios, can you please run Throttlestop at your 3.8 ghz and do whatever test or game or whatever you were doing, and look at the CPU power draw and "Limit Reasons" when the CPU clock slows down? Don't use Throttlestop 8.48 and XTU at the same time to change FIVR settings or Power Limits, however, as they both affect the same registers (note: Throttlestop cannot change ICCMax). If you're trying to use XTU to do a stress test, you can also use Aida's stress test or OCCT. Or just run Prime95 and be done with it, simple and fast.

Most likely, Limit Reasons will NOT show power limit 1/2 throttling but will show EDP Other (Electrical design point)--the VR Current Limit setting.

(Protip: if you look in UNDOC.txt in prime95, you will find switches to add to "Local.txt" which can disable AVX and FMA3 instructions. Doing this allows you to do real world testing of Prime95 without absurd power draw. Just remember if you do want to do the "system powers off" test at 4.1 ghz or 4.2 ghz to re-enable AVX/FMA3).

 

Ok. I will try that. THe thing is that I do have my iccmax at 400 in the bios...

 

Then please run Throttlestop and look at Limit Reasons when your CPU cores downclock. Please post back when you can, the reasons.

 

EDP Other

What is that supposed to mean? How do I solve this? It says it only uses 55w...

 

It's 100% the current limit not working.

You said that the offset of "-" didn't work before uninstalling dragon center. It's probably dragon center which also stopped your ICCMax from working.
Your laptop doesn't seem to be registering the ICCMAX because of Dragon Center messing things up, and the current limit is probably around 45-50W.

Easiest way to fix this is:
1) Uninstall XTU. Before uninstallation, activate the "Default" profile, then close and uninstall it.
2) Power off the laptop.
3) Power it on, go into Bios, go to "Load Defaults". Then save and reset (important)
4) Then go back in the Bios, and set your ICCMax and your undervolt thing (I assume your Bios is unlocked).

 

It doesn´t work...I´ve done as you said and still getting a maximun of 56w. The Bios is unlocked. modified by svet

 

Sorry, if you already said it but on Intel GPU or Nvidia GPU?

I have this problem when on integrated gpu.

And bios overclocking is better than throttlestop overclocking in my experience

 

Nvidia. This time I was doing it with bios overclocking with xtu uninstalled

 

@jaime360

56W...
Is your VID 1.25?
Default ICCMax is 70 amps, i THINK, so 56 x 1.25 is exactly 70.
Not sure what's going on.

However:
Try increasing ICCMax to 480.
Does this work?
Also, since your Bios is unlocked, also change it to 480 in "Ring" (if you have it), otherwise System Agent and GT (Unsliced). This will be under "CPU : Power and performance" in the VR Area. You don't need to change it in Sliced.

See if this does anything.

 

I was trying 4ghz with 0.7 voltage offset. Got to go to work. Thank you so much for the help. I will keep trying tomorrow

 

I just ran a Windows update, i thought it was a routine update but it was huge, It's possible was the CE update but I thought that had been installed. I went to install the latest Nvidia driver afterward and the drivers failed during a re boot, there was a BSOD during the restart that the installer initiated. Now there is a generic driver and the Nvida driver wont install. I tried several driver packages and several reboots witht the same result. Device manager just shows a generic monitor.

 

Try "Display Driver Uninstaller" in safe mode?

 

I didn't try that but I did go through the steps of deleting all the Nvidia folders, that failed, I then reverted back to the way things were before windows 10 came along and wasted 90 minutes of my time. I suppose at some point I will have to try it again and maybe I will have better luck.

 

I just ran a 91 watt 4.4 ghz Prime Small FFT test with FMA3 instructions. Computer did not turn off. I aborted the test when temps ran 89,86,92,87 on the third loop because I didn't like those temps. So I can 100% confirm that increasing PS Current Threshold from 20 amps to 30 amps (80 to 120) in Bios stops the system from shutting off at 4.4 ghz with that CPU power draw.
Since 91 watts at 1.14v is about 80 amps, I can only assume that something in the EC firmware or the Bios(?) is telling the system to shut off if CPU current is higher than the currently set value for "PS Current Threshold" amps plus some other value, like around +60 or +70 or something.

If you guys are getting complete system shutdowns when trying to run very high loads at high overclocks (e.g. AVX or Linpack loops at 4.2 ghz+), try increasing PS Current Threshold1 from 80 (default) to 120 (20A to 30A) to stop the cancer firmware from telling you you're drawing too much power.

proof:


Done on Conductonaut LM, or Prochot would have been reached real fast...

 

You were correct sir! Thank you soooo much because I was going to return it and spend a fortune on an alienware. I opened a ticket asking about my warranty and they pasted a link to the warranty page on the MSI website. I believe that means I'm covered per the usual 1 year period. They didn't comment on the 3 month extension, so I'm not sure. If it lasts a year without problems, I'd say It'll last 3 or 4 at least.

 

has anyone else had regular bsod problems. would anyone care to explain..........


System Information (local)

Computer name: MSI
Windows version: Windows 10 , 10.0, build: 15063
Windows dir: C:\WINDOWS
Hardware: GT73VR 6RF, Micro-Star International Co., Ltd., MS-17A1
CPU: GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6820HK CPU @ 2.70GHz Intel586, level: 6
8 logical processors, active mask: 255
RAM: 34315276288 bytes total



Crash Dump Analysis
Crash dump directory: C:\WINDOWS\Minidump

Crash dumps are enabled on your computer.

On Tue 01/08/2017 11:19:49 your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\WINDOWS\Minidump\080117-6812-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x16C4C0)
Bugcheck code: 0x3B (0xC0000005, 0xFFFFF80015409FC7, 0xFFFF988137534BF0, 0x0)
Error: SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION
file path: C:\WINDOWS\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This indicates that an exception happened while executing a routine that transitions from non-privileged code to privileged code.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver that cannot be identified at this time.



On Tue 01/08/2017 11:19:49 your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\WINDOWS\memory.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: afd.sys (afd+0x63E12)
Bugcheck code: 0x3B (0xC0000005, 0xFFFFF80015409FC7, 0xFFFF988137534BF0, 0x0)
Error: SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION
file path: C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\afd.sys
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: Ancillary Function Driver for WinSock
Bug check description: This indicates that an exception happened while executing a routine that transitions from non-privileged code to privileged code.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem.
The crash took place in a standard Microsoft module. Your system configuration may be incorrect. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver on your system that cannot be identified at this time.



On Mon 31/07/2017 05:07:03 your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\WINDOWS\Minidump\073117-7390-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x16C4C0)
Bugcheck code: 0xC5 (0x28, 0x2, 0x0, 0xFFFFF800DE4871D3)
Error: DRIVER_CORRUPTED_EXPOOL
file path: C:\WINDOWS\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This indicates that the system attempted to access invalid memory at a process IRQL that was too high.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem. This might be a case of memory corruption. More often memory corruption happens because of software errors in buggy drivers, not because of faulty RAM modules.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver that cannot be identified at this time.



On Sun 30/07/2017 00:00:51 your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\WINDOWS\Minidump\073017-12437-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x16C4C0)
Bugcheck code: 0x1A (0x41793, 0xFFFFF93FFAE00000, 0x1, 0x0)
Error: MEMORY_MANAGEMENT
file path: C:\WINDOWS\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This indicates that a severe memory management error occurred.
This might be a case of memory corruption. More often memory corruption happens because of software errors in buggy drivers, not because of faulty RAM modules. This problem might also be caused because of overheating (thermal issue).
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver that cannot be identified at this time.



On Thu 20/07/2017 10:16:59 your computer crashed
crash dump file: C:\WINDOWS\Minidump\072017-6656-01.dmp
This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x16C4C0)
Bugcheck code: 0xC5 (0x8, 0x2, 0x0, 0xFFFFF800E12901D3)
Error: DRIVER_CORRUPTED_EXPOOL
file path: C:\WINDOWS\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
company: Microsoft Corporation
description: NT Kernel & System
Bug check description: This indicates that the system attempted to access invalid memory at a process IRQL that was too high.
This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem. This might be a case of memory corruption. More often memory corruption happens because of software errors in buggy drivers, not because of faulty RAM modules.
The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver that cannot be identified at this time.




Conclusion
47 crash dumps have been found and analyzed. Only 5 are included in this report.

 

How to auto-start Dragon Center at startup ?

 

Press "Windows key, r" at the same time, type in "shell:startup" and add the DGC shortcut to the startup folder that opens.

Google can get you about any answer, here's the first result: http://www.thewindowsclub.com/startup-folder-in-windows-8

 

Finally it works!!!! I dont what fixed it.. but it works. I thing that is having the iccmax at 480. Now its perfectly stable. I will try to buy tomorrow kryonaut and lets see what this baby can do

 

Did you do a CMOS Bios reset before it started working? Or did you just change ICCMax to 480 without the cmos reset? Or did you change ICCMax to 480 in the other VR sections (Ring, system agent, etc)?

 

The Bios reset didnt work, I´ve done that many times. I dont know why but I think that xtu is some way related to the bios. When I change a parameter in xtu it also changes in the bios...quite weird. I´m going to look to this and I will update you.

 

I think it was just dragon center that was messing things up.
When you got rid of that and then changed values again, they actually worked.

 

Ok, If I apply the iccmax in the bios, it doesn´t work, but if I aplly the ICCmax in the xtu, it tells me to reboot to apply the changes. If I reboot, the parameters are also change in the bios and then it works like a champ. Why do I have this weird issue? It is supposed to work like that??? Thank you very much

 

I don't have this issue.
This could be a BIOS "bug."
Or it could be because "RING" section is missing on 7820HK.

Are you using 6820HK or 7820HK?

What I can tell you is, if I change ICCMax with XTU, it changes it in BIOS in IA section and in GT Unsliced section (you cant see this from XTU itself).
If you have RING section, perhaps XTU is changing it in RING, which is missing in 7820HK. I think 7820HK made IA and Ring linked togther in the Bios. Because 7820HK has "Acoustic" setting, while 6820HK has "RIng" setting.

Instead of using XTU, try changing ICCMax in IA and Ring together in your Bios. See if that works.

Is XTU Changing ICCMax in your "GT" sliced or unsliced section, or in your RING section?

 

I can't get that people jump on bloat as hot cookies @Phoenix

 

Never had an issue with the Dragon Center

 

Don't show that GP I hate bloat and Trash!! But yoo push the lottery bruh

 

It's time for j00 to change your Avatar that you had for 4 years



Pick one of the below Avatars please:

 

Wow
Good picture selection