***The Official MSI GT80 Titan Owner's Lounge***

How much of the original price do you get back when you sell used?

 

Yes but with pice standardized, they will go down in price - also non pcie ssd's will still perform faster with higher bandwidth busses

 

mason2smart, thanks for finding that, I had been watching but until now only the 6700's were showing.

There are a few things I noticed, like the 45w limit, the 31.4GB/sec memory throughput limit - already reached at 2133mhz/2666mhz tests - no advantage for faster memory, 100c thermal limit - down from 105c for Broadwell.

The only thing is, if it is TDP unlocked, the Intel Ark charts don't really have a row/column for that, and the nice people filling in the data might not have access to that info and are just filling in data with similar Skylake entries - "hey, this one doesn't have a TDP wattage limit listed" - "ok, just duplicate what all the others are showing"

We need to get a report from a live system with the 6820HK.

 

Don't know exactly until you try but I was say its typical for a laptop, in other words it pretty much sucks with all of them

 

mason2smart, usually we only see price drops when new tech replaces old tech, the M.2 SATA SSD's and 2.5" SATA SSD's have dropped a lot in price, but it wasn't too long ago the M.2's were much more expensive - and that was for about 3 years. The PCIe non-NVMe might drop now, but likely as not they will keep a higher level than M.2 SATA for quite a while as well.

The PCIe M.2 SSD's are more than 2x the cost of the same size M.2 SATA SSD's on newegg, right now.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...nal SSDs&Order=PRICED&Pagesize=30&isdeptsrh=1

It's nice having such fast interface, not knocking it, but I really don't have anything that is going to be negatively affected by only running at 1600MB/sec.

And, to really make use of the full speed, the data needs to be able to be read/written at those speeds externally, and the TB3 hardware is also expensive - and the media will also need to be RAID0 PCIe to match, very expensive again.

As to the backplane bus being faster, that is helpful, but we are already getting full speed out of RAID0 4x(3x) SATA III - it's running at the limit of those interfaces - the existing speed is enough. You won't be able to test that though, unless you installed 4x M.2 SATA SSD's, which might be an option, or you might be limited to 2x PCIE M.2 and 2x SATA M.2, depends on the implementation.

It will be fun to see the live system's running and benchmarked

 

mason2smart, it depends on the market demand, or if you get lucky and find someone motivated to purchase, and mostly how soon you sell it after initial purchase.

When I sold laptops after a month or two, I got most of my $ back, but that is only because I negotiated nice discounts on initial purchase.

Always look to get the most you can, and don't sell to the first person to make a lower offer than asking price. Be nice and upfront with them, tell them that isn't enough and you will need to look for better offers, and see if they offer more, then take their number and say you will get back to them if no better offer comes along.

After 18 months, you will be lucky to get 50-60% of what you paid, but even that will take patience.

And, that is all predicated on buying the best laptop model in that line, and that line being well known for excellent performance and reliability.

I also strip the laptop of all upgrades, and price them separately. That gives you bargaining room to offer a lower price for the base, and then keep adding on extra's like 2nd power adapter, extra memory, larger / faster storage than stock. That can add a large percentage of additional final sale price. I find it easier to do this than sell it all configured from the start.

But, you always have to be ready to take a loss, you won't get more than you paid unless it is a rare item and you sell it right away after purchase - unopened. Other than that you need to figure the difference between purchase and eventual sale the cost of use.

Once you have purchased the top model available, it's best to keep it a long time and don't plan on selling and upgrading to something better before 18 months. Others will also be tracking the release of new model variants with better specs, and then the only people looking for the previous model are those without enough $ for the new model looking for a bargain price on the previous model - you loose $.

Over those 18 months there will be lots of new releases that will tantalize you, but stay strong, keep what you have and learn to make the best of it, appreciate and enjoy it and not waste time wishing you had something better - at most it is only a few percentage points better and what you have will play games and do work just as well for much longer than you would expect

 

so i see there's a new 980m vbios available to download for the Titan (not new, but newer than my current version). so anybody already flash the vbios and want to give me some pointers so i don't brick anything? for instance, should i disable the nvidia cards before flashing? does the .bat file automatically flash both cards or is there more to it? thanks in advance for any help.

 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...0147426&cm_re=m.2_pcie-_-20-147-426-_-Product

It's not that much more expensive than an m2 Sata drive

 

i'd say a tiny bit thats barely non-noticeable. its like going from 780m to 880m, more power efficient even if its 1%

 

tbh I wouldn't say they are way too expensive. there are very limited amount of choices we can have right now anyway, SM951 is pretty well priced, NVME PCIE 3.0 x4 lanes, 512gb for around $350 which is reasonable for flag ship consumer SSD. i mean, performance wise its more than twice of 850 pro 512gb 2.5" cost is only like 70$ more.

SM951 doesn't run that hot btw, way better than previous sammy model.

its not too expensive, more of compatibility issue and adoption from vender.

 

mason2smart, sorry I should have given comparison links, here you go

Samsung 850 Evo M.2 SATA 500GB - $179
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147399

Samsung SM951 M.2 PCIe 512GB - $399
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...0147426&cm_re=m.2_pcie-_-20-147-426-_-Product

$179 vs $399 for the Samsung SM951 512GB PCIe M.2 at newegg, more than 2x as much for the PCIe version.

 

$179 for the 500GB Samsung Evo 850 is way less than 1/2 as much as the $399 512GB SM951.

For 4x RAID0 500GB I paid $708 ($177 ea), for that much $ you couldn't even get 2 of the PCIe version

And, the temperature isn't that much better, if at all, way over 100c under load:


And, that is the *single* M.2 PCIe SSD temp! Under RAID0, I can't imagine how hot the PCIE x4 SSD's must get...

Wow, and I thought 71c was too hot by 1c over 70c operating max, but those PCIe x4 SSD's are running way over 100c, that's hotter than the Junction Max for the Haswell, Broadwell, and Skylake CPU's!

Why don't they put heatsinks on those M.2 PCIe x4 SSD controller chips, yikes!

The GT80 4x RAID0 500/512GB M.2 SATA ran mostly under 70c under load, and I only saw a high of 71c. That is right at the limit of the specification, but they still run well under the max operating temperature of 70c most of the time, in the 40-50c range.

For comparison, the 2x 128GB M.2 SATA SSD RAD0 that come with the GT80 only get up to 64c under load.

 

so its not worth it? how much faster is the pcie ssd? if its more than double the speed then it would be worth it...

 

mason2smart, it's a matter of practical benefit. It does benchmark 2x-4x faster, but does it actually improve your life enough to pay 2.5x+ for the same storage space?

And, for now, the M.2 PCIe x4 operating temperature specification max's out at 70c for consumer, and 85c for industrial, and all the laptops I have seen have no focused cooling on the M.2 PCIe x4 SSD's, so everyone is potentially running these M.2 PCIe x4 SSD's well past specification at full utilization on a regular basis.

The GT80 has 3x M.2's packed overlapping each other, placed to the left and 1 M.2 on the right around the CPU on the other side of the MB.

Notice the CPU back side bracket metal through the plastic to the right of the M.2 slots.

Notice the CPU back side bracket metal through the plastic to the left of the M.2 slot.


Hopefully the new GT80 with 2x M.2 PCIe + 2x M.2 SATA will place them between the CPU/GPU - away from direct heat conduction with the CPU, and get some direct cooling.

Having said that, the highest temp I saw was 71c for the 4x M.2 500GB/512GB SATA SSD RAID0, which is more than 30c cooler than the M.2 PCIe *single* SSD under load, running well over 100c.

Also, look for 110mm support, those length M.2's can be made up to 1TB, while the 80mm max out at 512GB, at least right now. 12110 vs 1280.

 

Little help, Msi has the firmware update for the 980m gtx on their support page, I downloaded it, do I just run flash .bat file or are there extra steps? Like do I need to run it twice for each card or should I disable sli first? Don't wanna nerf my gpu cards....

 

The details are all there, download, read, and follow the docs.

Here are the docs from the vBIOS download page:
http://www.msi.com/support/nb/GT80-2QE-Titan-SLI-5.html#down-firmware

How to update VBIOS, please click here.
http://www.msi.com/files/pdf/n16_vbios_sop.pdf

Be sure and find the support location for your model laptop, and your installed Windows OS version, the examples above are from the Windows 8.1 SLI-263 GT80 support area.

 

mmm samsung overclock their controller? in evo if you take off the casing without spreading heat over the 2.5" shell u'll get pretty hot closer to 75-80C for something thats not even 1/4th of the performance. i'd say sm951 is way better and plus u gotta realize, biggest hit to controller is random write, that thing you're seeing under bench mark is like watching your CPU run P95 24/7 and saying thats the temperature.

besides, Evo uses caching to mask TLC performance and all i need to do is put a 2cmx2cm * 2mm adhesive heatsink over each SSD controller if im worried about it, which im not.

lastly, having 3 in raid 0 would lower its temp because each one won't be running at max =/

and what the hell..? getting 4 evos cap at 2GB/s? after paying premium on this machine i'd expect pretty much the best high end I can get.

 

unityole, the first time I noticed the high temps on the M.2 SATA in the GT80, I had 4x RAID running, 2 partions of 1TB each, moving 530GB from C to D partitions. I was getting full 1.6GB+/sec throughput, no slowing down for RAID0.

The Haswell/Broadwell DMI 2.0 taps out at 1.8GB/sec, the Skylake DMI 3.0 doubles that to 3.6GB/sec.

The M.2 SSD temps were in the mid 60c's up to 71c.

Your experience with the 2.5" form factor temperatures will be much lower than the M.2 temps. My Samsung 840 Pro under load only gets up into the upper 40c range.

Right now at idle my 2.5" drive is 36c and the M.2's are at 55c at idle.

The Skylake M.2's will need to be broken up into 2 RAID0 volumes, if you want to use 2 of them with M.2 PCIe x4 SSD's.

2x RAID0 M.2 PCIe x4 + 2x RAID0 M.2 SATA.

You can't RAID0 all 4 M.2 slots together unless they are all M.2 SATA.

If you set up 2x RAID0 M.2 PCIe x4, that is 1 Volume, and the 2x RAID0 M.2 SATA is a second Volume. They run at such different speeds you can't RAID0 all of them together.

The M.2 SATA drives will run at 60c+ under 100% throughput, and the M.2 PCIe x4 drives will run at 100c+ under 100% throughput.

Putting stick on heatsinks may help a bit, but there isn't any air flow in any of the M.2 slots I have seen. The best M.2 cooling I have seen was in the G750JH/JZ/JY, which used a 2.5" bay and an adapter card to host 2 M.2 SATA drives. My idle M.2 SATA temps there were in the low 30c range.

I guess we will find out when someone gets a GT80 Skylake with M.2 PCIe x4 drives + M.2 SATA drives, just how fast and hot they run. Maybe someone with a GT72 Skylake will post some M.2 numbers...

If it was me, I would use 4x M.2 SATA drives to start, and wait for the M.2 PCIe x4 NVMe drives to come down in price, and go up in capacity - 1TB M.2's please

 

its also related to laptop cooling capability and air flow, but in a desktop rig under benchmark heavy random write, samsung evo isnt a whole lot better than pcie ssd, which again benchmark is for stress test imho. at regular use, that temp will prob never come, or peak it at perhaps 1 sec at most and task is done since its so fast.. and i bet most are cpu bounded anyway. i just wan ram disk to load super fast

even if 4 sata were able to do 3.6GB/s i would prob still not go for it, because biggest jump from HDD to SSD is 4k and latency, and jump between flash and ram is latency. NVME PCIE much quicker than AHCI sata so it'll be worth it to watch computer super snappy. (of course when ultradimm is for consumer i'll jump to that instead of NVME SSD..)

i hate delay, lag and spike..

 

unityole, every laptop M.2 placement is different, and the heat generating components next to the M.2 slot(s), on both sides of the motherboard, contribute heat back and forth between the M.2 and the components.

When I pushed the 4x RAID0, and my CPU, I could raise the temps of both by increasing the utilization of the CPU/M.2 RAID. There is some delay, but it's there.

And, once the M.2 drives get heated up, there isn't enough air flow to cool them down, they hold their temperature for a good while before slowly cooling down, and each slot cools at a different rate.

I have been running a 2x RAID0, and moving the M.2 drives around in their slots to find the coolest running positions.

sd0/sd1 overlap, and they heat themselves up much more than if I run them in sd0 / sd3, where if I don't run a heavy load they both idle at 42c, about 13c lower than if I run them in sd0/sd1.

Now that I ran a CrystalDiskMark benchmark on the 2x RAID, the sd0 drive is at 52c (max 55c during test), and the sd3 drive is 49c (max 55c during test).

So if the new GT80 Skylake has non-overlapping M.2 slots, they might run cooler than the current configuration.

Remember, I noticed the high temps while doing copy's back and forth between partitions on the RAID0, something I do all the time, it isn't just a benchmark generated heat scenerio, it is real world every day file copies generating these temperatures.

File copies in the GB range, less than that it's likely not gonna peak the temps so high, but if the slot's don't allow much cooling once the M.2 SSD's heat up, then the effect could be additive over a work/play day.

Something to watch for in your own laptop.

 

My ssd - samsung 840 evo i think - does not perform as advertised. It maxes at around 300 mb/s and has a temp range of around 50-70 Celsius
Razer way overcharges for the SSD.

 

Seems 355.82 still crashes for me (I'm on Win 8.1 and not 10). Anyone know any fixes? It seems that coming out of sleep vs fresh reboot is when it happens, but then I did a shutdown last night and it did it just about a minute in. I just get a spontaneous reboot and an EventID of 14 when I look back in Event Viewer. I'm back on 3.49 for now.

I decided to check my history by querying event viewer (EventID 20001 = Install driver and 14 = crash):

Date DriverVersion Outcome
========== ============= =======================================
2015-06-21 353.06 stable over 3 days
2015-06-23 353.30 crashed/rebooted 105 times over 43 days
2015-08-04 353.62 stable over 11 days
2015-08-14 355.60 crashed/rebooted 5 times over 15 days
2015-08-28 353.49 stable over 8 days
2015-09-04 355.82 crashed/rebooted 4 times over 8 days
2015-09-11 353.49 present

FYI:
Created in event viewer with custom XML filter:
<QueryList>
<Query Id="0" Path="System">
<Select Path="System">*[UserData[InstallDeviceID[@xmlns = ' http://manifests.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/windows/userpnp'][DriverDescription='NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980M ']] or System[Provider[@Name='nvlddmkm'] and (EventID=14)]]</Select>
</Query>
</QueryList>

I just exported to XML and reformatted with ultraedit. I'll probably do this again with powershell and a one-click run. Anyone know of SQL grouping and union against internal eventviewer DB?.

 

I went to the new drivers on windows 8.1 a while back. My laptop started crashing randomly as well. I continued having issues after reverting and after trying windows 10. I wiped the laptop and it continued to have issues. After a second wipe im working again.

Just keep wiping it and dont upgrade gpu drivers. It leaves remnants or something that screws with the gpu.

 

hoofhearted, nice notes, don't know why you are having problems with 355.82, no problems for me on the GT80 SLI-263, lots of game time, without it can't run MGS:tpp.

Also, I never use sleep, and I have disabled Hibernation / pagefile, you might try that as well to improve stability.

Run As Administrator cmd: powercfg /h off
Also set your pagefile size to zero. Reboot, and see if that helps.

It might be other driver interactions, different versions than I have loaded. Here are some of the versions installed, I have lots of other apps/games/tools installed.




2 more images in next post...

 

btw do u guys flash vbios to unlock the throttle limit? 980m can easily be overvolted for some hardcore OC. dual fan are both 12volts so it can carry a lot more air. in clevo p570wm it can oc very well along side an Ivy-Extreme desktop CPU, i'd think it can oc good too in this machine except CPU bottlenecks it.

 

This is very likely a dumb question, but when I do a GPU upgrade on the GT80, would I have to do it myself or could I send it to MSI for them to do it?

 

unityole, others have flashed the prema vbios, and gotten slightly better scores on benchmarks, but as that is only a slight percentage in fps improvement in games, it isn't worth the risk of bricking a GPU - at least for me.

The 980m SLI is more than fast enough

If for some reason GPU upgrades don't materialize, or are too costly, and I am outside the MSI 2 year warranty, I will revisit the option then.

Also, I don't like noisy fans, so pumping up the fan speed for additional cooling has no appeal to me. I like that I can get the 980m SLI performance at low noise levels more than gaining a few fps in some games. I would rather turn down some post processing, or other tuning than push the GPU / cooling to offensively noisy levels.

If you want to do the 91w desktop CPU + huge OC's on GPU's get a Clevo, and some effective hearing protection, and enjoy.

 

We have and we manage around 17000 +/- firestrike score before the single power brick is exhausted.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

 

SizeDrip, all the info I have seen suggests you can do it yourself, at the risk of losing your warranty should something go wrong.

For me, I will send it in and let MSI take on the responsibility for getting it to work, and support it within my warranty + upgrade warranty extension.

 

GTVEVO, thanks, and that is what I am talking about, I get just under 16000 (15960), which makes the improvement only 6% over stock BIOS/vbios OC.

That is only 2-3 fps in a heavy game. Not worth the risk of voiding the warranty, bricking the GPU(s), and the hassle of making it work now and moving forward with new vbios releases + Nvidia releases.

It's cool, boss, and fun, but not something I would recommend unless you are really OCD about getting the most out of your hardware - too much risk for small benefit.

 

You are way too late to the party unityole. We have been overclocking and posting benchmarks in another GT80 thread for a while. The GPUs do have headroom for overclocking, but your PSU doesn't. Maxwell GPUs are terrible when overclocked, to the point they become very power hungry and can shut down your PSU quickly.

I ended up with something like +230 core clocks and +400mhz memory before my PSU was crashing.

 

Indeed, my computer has not been stable with any drivers after 353.62. If I use any newer drivers, my system hangs, freezes, crashes at random intervals. Using monitoring software like HWmonitor also causes the computer to hang. This only happens with newer drivers.

Also, I was able to play Metal Gear just fine with 353.62 drivers so far.

 

ryzeki, did you consider running the 2nd 330w power supply like the Clevo's ?

What about results for that OC, Firestrike score, and in game FPS improvements?

 

Okay, thanks for the quick reply!

 

I think another user already confirmed that the second PSU with the adapter does work, but I haven't bought one yet. My scores were not as high as yours because it is very CPU sensitive. I think mine capped around 15.6K with a graphics score around 23k (was around the highest). But even after ocing more, I could not finish tests due to hard crash. My temps for the GPUs were fine but even with a slight OC, the PSU gets quickly over 330W.

FPS improvements varied per game, but you did get that 10-20% extra performance depending on the game.

 

I plan on making that purchase for the duel bricks but I wanted to wait and see what MSI does with the 6820hk cpu in the gt80 first. Just in case they suprise us with more powerful brick.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

 

Or they will sell it with2 bricks like Clevo

 

How long do you think it will be before a skylake model is released?

 

Very possible, and at an inflated rate lol.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

 

Inflated rate?

 

I should say inflated price. Just me being negative.


Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

 

Man, I'm hoping by the end of this month. I'm really getting antsy. They've announced other skylake laptops. Just saving the best for last apparently.

 

Not sure what all of this is or why you think typing so much makes your point any more valid. There is a clearly documented issue with one of the driver versions for 980m SLI graphics cards, nothing to do with Windows 10 (happened on Windows 8 as well) and nothing to do with the other weird killer drivers/etc.

Besides that, boycotting an OS by using another OS version from the same company. Kind of ridiculous. If you were just worried about bugs, that's one thing, you seem to be hung up on privacy issues which as far as I can tell can all be disabled quite easily. Why would you stay on a Windows based platform if you're that concerned? Windows 8 will become obsolete eventually, time to choose a different OS completely. Maybe Mac OS is best suited for you.

 

chronoshift, it has nothing to do with the operating system, it is what you are compelled to give up to get it.

Windows 10 is no better / worse than Windows 8/7, but it is the EULA where you agree to give up your privacy rights.

We haven't given up those rights for Windows 7/8, so there is nothing wrong with still using it.

Is it possible that our information, private files, and actions are being monitored in Windows 7/8, yes they are.

But, we haven't given up our rights explicitly - agreeing to allow them to do it. It must be done covertly. Illegally. Agreeing to the Windows 10 EULA makes their actions legal.

The so called Patriot Act has been denied renewal, the law of the land still prevails, to protect us from having our rights taken away.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Patriot+Act+has+been+denied+renewal&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Now, their last chance, they need to have us walk willingly into our loss of privacy.

I won't do that. We shouldn't do that. We have fought so long to keep those rights, against so many odds, for us to give up now, with the click of a mouse, all for a free crappy OS.

It's that simple. It has nothing to do with Windows. It has to do with explicitly giving up your right to privacy.

Agreeing to the EULA, and then trying to subvert the agreement by thinking you are disabling all the stuff you want to keep private, doesn't stop them from taking it.

You are fooling yourself if you think any of those settings will stop the flow of your private information off of your computer.

Windows 10 sends data to Microsoft, despite privacy settings
https://www.google.com/search?num=50&safe=off&biw=905&bih=451&q=+Windows+10+sends+data+to+Microsoft,+despite+privacy+settings&oq=+Windows+10+sends+data+to+Microsoft,+despite+privacy+settings&gs_l=serp.3...59792.59792.0.60095.1.1.0.0.0.0.100.100.0j1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..1.0.0.PZhgVl6Iztk

You explicitly gave up your right to privacy, they are going to take what they want despite your trying to keep your privacy intact. This ain't no joke.

You gave up your right to privacy by agreeing to the EULA, yet you try to keep them from getting that information via settings, programs, registry hacks - if your privacy *is* important enough to you to go through all that trouble to keep it, why did you agree to the EULA in the first place?

Have you noticed, there is no option provided for you, in all those pages of settings, to opt out of giving Microsoft access to your private files?

There are other forums where this is being discussed, lets stop this off topic talk here, and move it elsewhere, or via PM.

 

I'm having horrible driver issues on Windows 8.1. The Nvidia driver seems to crash 2-3 times an hour. Pretty ****ty since I already swapped in an 512GB 850 SSD. Sigh.

 

Which driver versions have you tried?

 

Driver version is 355.82. I have the SLI-263 version of the GT80.

 

980m sli can go alot higher than 17000 and these cards can probably take a lot of stress just like intel cpu. try do a dual psu mod, that way this machine won't limit by a single brick, this has being done on m18x and also clevo p570wm itself supports 2 brick.

 

what's the load voltage of the 980ms in this thing?