GT72/GT72S and GT80/GT80S Owners GPU Upgrade Discussion

Done. Let's see what they have.

 

Just as a heads up. Some pages ago a new user MSI Natalie posted about having more information soon. She is a representative of MSI for UK branch, so people from the UK can contact her for further information when needed.

 

Link check? @ryzeki


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all European msi forums are down
bad, bad omen

 

What happened?

 

UK gets MXM GPU upgrades!!(??)

GPU Upgrades are Banned in America??

This must be the behind the scenes reason for Brexit

 

Link to MSI Natalie linked to some random thread.


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These days the word upgrade doesn't mean the same platform. It might still be a trade-in.
Heck, look at windows 10. Their "upgrade" is dumping your old OS in another folder and moving icons over...

 

It's true, their text can be read either way, so @MiSJAH followed up with some good clarification questions.

It's likely it's another trade-in, but still, one can wish

 

Also Portugal, don't forget about them!!

It's a process, it takes time for the information and desire for a solution to pervade all the regional offices, it's only been a short time, I think MSI is doing great so far...

You, know, except for reneging on the promise to supply "2 generations" of MXM GPU's, starting with Pascal.

 

Yup, looking at the new GT73VR / GT83VR Pascal MXM GPU's, there isn't anything about them that couldn't be retrofitted for our GT72/GT80 laptops.

Of course the kit would include more parts than just the MXM GPU, there would be cooling upgrades, and new mounting components, and a new cable harness for tapping extra power.

If MSI had gone into the design of the new GPU's to include ease of backward compatibility it wouldn't have made the MXM GPU's any more costly, or difficult to get full performance in the new laptops, and the retro-fit would have netted a nice enough improvement for us GT72/GT80 owners.

Now MSI is going to need to build an entirely new MXM GPU to retro-fit.

That's their own fault for not having the fortitude to keep their promise, their bond to their faithful customers.

It's gonna cost them more than if they had followed through from the beginning of the Pascal MXM designs.

And, for the Pascal MXM design, there wasn't the usual guidance design from Nvidia, so this is all on MSI and Clevo.

 

What region / Country is that response from?

 

So as far as I know here is the history of the 2gen upgrade promise:

MSI marketing materials on their website and on newegg as well as some other sites all stated that the laptop is made to be upgraded, including MXM form factor graphics cards. The only place that you hear about 2-gen is in reviews on you-tube and computex stating that "MSI has a upgrade plan that will cover 2 generations of GPU"

What does this mean?

It means at least in my estimation that MSI does owe us a plan B since that didn't exactly work out... Also there are a number of these videos where the presenter sais "2 gen plan" with in slapping distance of a MSI marketing rep.... But no where can I find where MSI literally marked directly to the public 2 gen's as some kind of guarantee... now we could split hairs all day about how telling people at computex they have a 2 gen plan when they know these people (like Linus) are literally on camera repeating that information to thousands if not a million people is or isn't marketing a feature that is going to be construed as a "guarantee"... however to my knowlege I have never seen in writing or otherwise where MSI clearly states for the record that they are promising 2 gens of upgrade.

Okay, so I know I just repeated my shorter statement as a longer statement... So let me try again what does this mean?

Well, they still marketed the GPU's as upgrade-able. I also feel that any well informed jury/judge would agree that the 2 generation thing did originate from MSI and could be seen as a "gurantee" by the average consumer. Which is WHY they are doing anything at all about the issue. BUT and this is a huge but! I can also see where MSI's obligation to fix it is minimal, in that they will probably only offer us the ability to trade in our laptops + some undisclosed amount of money in exchange for another laptop. Since it would have cost you money anyway to perform the upgrade.

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New topic:

(note here that im talking about a Maxwell to Maxwell upgrade only since its the only upgrade you can do right now, so for example going from 965m -> 980m but that I will tie it in by the end to the PASCAL cards just read the whole thing or don't read it at all)
The upgrade it self I feel is also a point of marketing BS that also needs addressed, where they made it look and sound like "This is an upgrade a slightly advanced user will be able to make and parts will be readily available for you" then after the fact they massively back petaled and said "oh well, we don't sell those parts, at all, and you should not even try to make this upgrade on your own under any circumstance" one rep even told me even MSI wont make the upgrade for you, while a second rep said yes, msi will let you send it and do the maxwell to maxwell upgrade for you.

So what this has to do with 10 series cards is... this makes it look like MSI had no intention of marketing or making available upgrade parts for gt72/gt80 users in the first place even if they WERE compatible. Which IMHO is the most dishonest part of this entire thing.... Its one thing to promise an upgrade, have the system in place, then get screwed on compatibility issues. Its another altogether to promise an upgrade when you obviously know that you are not going to support that upgrade in any way what so ever by not selling the parts, not having and partners set up to sell the parts, and not even briefing your parts or RMA team on the plans at any point in time.

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PS!!!
If anyone has any written or video proof of a MSI rep or marketing material stating first hand that they promise 2 gens of upgrades PLEASE post it here. I would like to see that. A rep telling Linus (or someone else) off camera and then having it repeated by Linus (or someone else) is second hand information. I want first hand proof.

 

Portugal, and Spain. since they told me after i said it was false marketing, and the whole wont fit thing
" It's true and u have all reason on what u are saying.
We are having the same problem in spain, we already reported, now we are waiting for an answer."

The funny fact was they responded six emails in one and a half hour.

 

MSI is changing/deleting content on several websites containing information about the actual MXM upgrade discussion. I posted it to the official MSI Rep thread.. i think you should read it at least once. But please keep calm.. i know it's hard: Link

 

I think it's to remove the chance of people buying secondhand GT's and trying to take advantage. MSI have already acknowledged the error they made. That's in the public domain.

There's no conspiracy.


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That's good, they are actively looking for a solution, and it's important to them to find one, they know that now

So, what happened with this response:

That sounds like a move in the right direction...doesn't it? Maybe something is missing in the translation, "possibility to make upgrade" sounds good, right?

 

Yes, but it said nothing...:

Kinda reminded me of this attempt to hold back a panic:

Spoiler: GT72 - GT80 owners on their way to MSI HQ...

 

It doesn't look like the chassis is the same between the GT80s and the GT83 which makes me think there is no way that an upgrade to a GTX 1070/1080 is physically possible. The GT83 is thicker and the cooling solution is far taller. The best we could hope for is a 980M to 980 upgrade and we all know the issues with that upgrade. I just don't think MSI anticipated that Nvidia would move to a desktop architecture for mobile platforms and they clearly didn't anticipate the heat generation and power requirements of moving to a more desktop like design. I'd love some sort of trade in with our old system for towards a new one but I doubt that will happen.

 

The GT83VR 1070 SLI is thinner, and the GT73VR is *much* thinner even than the GT80, a retro-fit designed Pascal MXM GPU upgrade kit would work. Upgraded case parts are just plastic.

Please don't try to give MSI excuses, they are already doing that just fine on their own.

 

The GT80S is thicker than the GT80? Or is it only the 980 SLI models that are thicker? Didn't know that

 

Well hey let me know when they are shipping out the free upgrades and I'll add my name to the list.

 

at least the portuguese support...responds.

 

What are you talking about??

Haven't you already sent in your form to get informed on MSI's "upgrade" trade-in program??

"You have to Play, to Win"

 

Are you honestly expecting to get an upgrade of any kind to a newer GPU for free?

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Nothing will be 'free'.


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Nvidia GPU Grant Program
https://developer.nvidia.com/academic_gpu_seeding

Darn...not yet...

"**Please note that we are NOT yet donating the Pascal GPUs via the GPU Grant Program. As soon as we have Pascal GPUs in our seeding inventory, we will update the online form and you will see them in the drop down menu. As you can imagine demand for these new GPUs is high and paying customers get first priority. We estimate having them sometime in the Sept/Oct timeframe. The current GPU Grant offerings are still beneficial for research projects."

 

i think we are down to only like 3 people who are still on the "free" bandwagon for whatever reason.... while i wish them luck in getting something for free, realistically msi is gona have to 'batman" this situation
an will provide an upgrade option "the customers need right now, but not the one they deserve"...
and that will be the last laptop upgrade performed by msi on the gt72/gt80/gt73/gt82 and that was probably the last promise of gpu upgrade from any of the laptop manufacturers...asus, clevo and others are gona read this thread and go, "no wai should we be offering upgrades ever, clearly no profit in it an lots of crazed, angry customers".....i think they will learn their lesson on this one about doing upgrades....

 

It proves just the opposite. MSI made a huge mistake allowing themselves to get into this position in the first place. That's what all this proves.

This is what happens when you make a long term commitment and then renege on it.

Not a good corporate position to be in.

In fact, it's the worst thing MSI could have possibly done to themselves.

It also proves there is a "huge" market for Pascal MXM GPU upgrades, from a wide range of owners, all someone needs to do is to fulfill that need and sell for huge profits to that ready made market.

 

exactly what the "commitment" was, and its terms (cost, timing, which party performs the work, who gets to keep the old parts, how many generations should be upgraded, who promised what, etc etc) are still up for debate..and since there is a trade-in program they are obviously not reneging it, even worse--- by filling out the form you took advantage of the upgrade option they are already partially off the hook...wish it wasn't so, but i am pretty sure it is....

 

You are wrong, none of us has accepted anything. We are listening.

While continuing to demand MSI follow through on their "2 generations" of MXM GPU upgrades, starting with Pascal.

Nothing has changed.

 

there you go again with the "Us" and "2 generations demand". i thought you yourself agreed a couple pages ago, that everyone should post "i accepted" instead of "us" not to infringe on what other people want?

 

Does anybody have anything to back up the 2 generations claim? Could MSI have meant/claim, 2 gen's from 800 series?


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even if they did, that would still give us the 10xx series as our final upgrade.

 

which is what the trade-in program effectively does...now the next questions are the details i mentioned which are not likely gona be the ones "customers deserve", as in- which party performs the upgrade, what the cost is, who keeps the old parts etc etc etc.. this is why my personal preference would be to get a significant discount on a new msi laptop (a different form of compensation, but for an equivalent ammount) rather than have to trade in my existing laptop....this would provide me with more options and less "terms and restrictions"

as far as 2 generation claim, @ Naveronasis investigated this a few posts ago here

 

This is as close as MSI got to making a 2gen claim on their own.





Linus is in a private room, with MSI reps, literally standing a foot away, talking about the 2 generation upgrade plan.

Many other reviewers at the same computech said the same thing, and since linus had NOT posted his video yet... They almost certainly heard it from MSI. Also if it was untrue... you would think... the like 3 MSI people in the room with Linus RIGHT THERE would have said something.

The only REAL promise they made in there own paperwork was on their website promising "MXM upgradeability".

Similar documentation was on product cards distributed to retailers like this one here:
http://www.xoticpc.com/msi-gt80s-titan-sli002-p-8751.html

So they still owe us an upgrade path since its on their literal marketing material... and it would be easy to argue that there was a 2 gen promise made... since that's what they were telling media in 2015.

 

thanks @ Naveronasis however that specific linked page you provided says nothing about upgrading mxm graphics..there is only the sentence in this paragraph (the one i underlined) " MADE TO UPGRADE

The GT80S Titan is the epitome of form and function. Designed for ease of access to the core components, it´s a DIY gamer´s dream machine. Remove the top plate to access hard drive bays and memory slots or the one piece bottom plate for access to the dual MXM graphics cards."


so by that comparison this is an even bigger smoking gun, since this explicitly says:
"Technology is constantly evolving, so why shouldn’t your notebook evolve with it? Future proof your gaming with upgradeable NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX MXM graphics cards only available on MSI gaming notebooks. The best just got better." :

http://event.msicomputer.com/GT72MXMupgrade/

still not clear on pricing/terms/etc but at least it uses "future proofing", and "upgradeable nvidia geforce gtx " in one sentence


either way now that the trade-in program is running, a path to upgrade has been provided..and as usual the devil's in the details i suppose

as far as linus, he can say whatever he wants since he is essentially an entertainer. his own channel description is:
Description
We make entertaining videos about technology, including tech reviews, showcases and other content.

 

No it says:

MADE TO UPGRADE

The GT80S Titan is the epitome of form and function. Designed for ease of access to the core components, it´s a DIY gamer´s dream machine. Remove the top plate to access hard drive bays and memory slots or the one piece bottom plate for access to the dual MXM graphics cards.

So IMHO thats pretty much saying "The MXM cards are expected to be upgrade-able"

 

they maybe implying it (and they maybe implying it strongly, or maybe not), but certainly not saying it

they are definitely saying: access to the dual MXM graphics cards.

 

What GTX is that equivalent to?


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True, but I think its enough coupled with the like 20% videos of independent reviewers at their booth and in their suite so convince a judge (not that we need one) that it was said. Also Linus says in his video that it was "announced on friday" so there was some kind of press release by MSI where they at least talked about it, that is probably what was in that video they pulled off youtube.

 

Here is your smoking gun. 60 seconds in.

 

skimmed thru it but dont see what yo are talking about..got a time code link?

EDIT- i think you mean the slide with "mxm graphics upgradeable"

either way it doesnt matter if they promised upgrade ability or not, they now provided it via trade-in program so thats "what we are gona get" ...its the details that will determine who gets the short end of the stick, but as soon as they announced the program, they proved they did not renege on the promise of a graphics upgrade....

as far as all the "reviewers" as if they mean anything to anyone...they are not reviewers..they are entertainers,,so as far as judge none of their words would matter....
the issue here is simply market share (customer satisfaction) versus regaining that market share..so we as a forum have leverage of ..well all of us here in the forum is the only leverage and thats where that leverage ends....

as far as what gtx is or its not equivalent...nothing specific since those laptops came with 880m, or 980m, or 980 depending on when you bought....and arguably those who upgraded from 880m to 980m already had an upgrade....so really its just the 980m and 980 owners from 2014 to today.... and for alot of those owners a trade-in may not be the most advantageous....those who have significant customization beyond stock sku config are probably looking at larger loss than stock config owners, since msi will want stock machines back and wont pay you for your custom components....

 

Yes. But they're not denying that, hence their upgrade program. But can someone provide the 2 generation claim?

 

Im having trouble following the whole thread due to NBR's current formatting issues. Excuse me if this has been raised.

However, assuming you guys get an upgrade to Pascal. That's still only 1 of a promised 2 upgrades. What happens when Volta arrives?
Are they
1) still offering the new system as MXM upgradable?
2) offering another trade in program.

Costs aside, but anything less as I understand is still cheating alot of customers out of the original promise of a 2 gen upgrade. Don't get duped guys!

 

@hmscott is up to bat on that one since he is the most vocal about that "2 generations" being a commitment, he probably has the data/info.

only thing i am advocating for is an alternative to being forced to trade-in

 

It was also my intent to upgrade from maxwell to volta. But I have just chosen not to QQ about it until I know what MSI is going to do, then I will decide what level of complaining if any is needed.

 

I agree. Although we won't see who trade in will be most advantageous for until they release details of the program. And honesty, I don't think we will actually "see" details of said program, because MSI has no obligation or need to. I'm guessing we'll most likely have to contact them and they'll deal with us case by case, just like the other trade in program looked to be that was posted yesterday.

It will probably be on us consumers to communicate what MSI is offering based on all our circumstances and put together a spreadsheet. Then determine if they're being fair.

 

There is another thread for posting questions to MSI, and a number of people have asked these questions, and please post them again from your own point of view

Posts that aren't questions are removed when the Mod gets around to it, and usually they are moved here to the discussion thread, fyi.

[Official] Questions for the MSI Rep! #2
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...for-the-msi-rep-2.795226/page-6#post-10327054

 

Oh they'll make it official and public... on November 1st.

Squint your eyes hard enough and you'll see why.