GT72/GT72S and GT80/GT80S Owners GPU Upgrade Discussion

I disagree with that. in the grand scheme of things a GPU is small compared all the other products MSI puts out. so yes fries or bacon whatever you want. Remember we are a niche market.

 

And there would still be no guarantee that we would be able to upgrade the GT83VR in the future either.

 

Yeah.. MSI promised us 2 Graphics Card Generations, we will continue to hold them accountable at least I will even if it may seem I am beating a dead horse...

 

I for one will be cool with it because at least they would be trying to "make it right" but I still want "A FRACKING APOLOGY" to go with it, that would make me OK with it. I would even be willing to sign something in return for the GT83VR. That way they won't have to worry about me doing this again if a new GPU COMES

 

same here. I don't even care for the second gen upgrade; I just want to upgrade to pascal. Give us a GT83VR in exchange for our notebook and ill sign off also The forgiving/signoff of the 2nd gen upgrade by us will make up for the cost of the pascal upgrade to MSI. Free upgrade for us, no worries about the future for MSI

 

Yeah... I guess if this Trade In is good I will drop it after Pascal.

 

But anything less I will be a pain in their azz for a long time complaining to whoever will listen. all media get ready for Carl!! But honestly this WILL be news so it won't be hard.

 

Why isn't this already in the tech news? Why hasn't a single podcast, or youtuber covered this problem?

It seems important for so many reasons to get the word out there about the trade-in, and to correct the impression people have that the MSI laptops GPU's are upgradeable.

GT72/GT80 users all need to be notified how to access the trade-in before the 2 months are up, Oct 31st is coming right around the corner.

 

I agree, this is very sly on MSI's part trying to hide the trade in program so the least loss of profit

 

Hey does seem like they're trying to keep a lid on it, I called and emailed a few places mainstream media CBS NBC. Maybe we should start small computer magazines

 

I concur.
LOL I will ram my OnlySLI agenda up you know where, I will mass email them, I will alert the media press any small time blogger technology magazine. Ooo hahaha

 

We could start by talking to website administrators with links and connections to maybe editors etc it would also help to put it on the front page of this website.

 

Popular gaming Youtube channels, streamers, and podcasters would be good too.

 

Yeah what about that guy that did the thing for MSI at the computer show what was it? I don't have my computer I'm on my iPhone he said they promised two generations of upgrades at some computer trade show or something

 

Linus tech tips?

 

Yea email that guy for starters they told him directly

 

Has MSI released any statements regarding their promise of upgradability to MSI customers who purchased GT72S with MXM GTX 980m?

 

All GT72/GT80, and presumably GT72S and GT80S owners with 8**/9** GPUs in eligible locations are covered.

 

Among the 900m owners, how many of us are so hurting for performance that we need to upgrade right away?

If I could make up solutions, I'd say MSI should give themselves some time to think this through by making Volta the generation to offer upgrades. It satisfies the letter of the agreement since it offers GT72 users an upgrade to another generation and gives GT80 owners the possibility to upgrade to a GPU two generations above their 900m cards. MSI should offer MXM replacements for whatever GPU they can fit in the power available. If that's the 1160, so be it. I'd imagine a Volta 1160 should be about as good to the 1070 at least and maybe MSI can give a nice factory OC if there is some current in reserve. I'd buy that card for ~$900 to stay off of W10 longer ...or hopefully if Vulkan and Linux can get enough support ...FOREVER, because I think I'll move back to consoles before I move to W10.

And those interested in trading laptops make out the same, but with better hardware.

 

If we can't upgrade to pascal it is very unlikely that we will be able to upgrade to volta.

 

Why do you guys want some type of fix? If you patch and make a "fix" instead of replacing the effected hardware like the motherboard, cooling solution, chassis and power supply you will only be opening yourself up for more problems down the road. Replacing the motherboard ect... Or the laptop is the only solution. if you don't you will only be opening up yourself for more problems down the road and be right back here on this forum complaining. Are there any other engineers here that can back me up on this?

 

Right, but GT80 owners are already penciled in for 2 generations worth of legitimate complaints and trying to finish this quick by trying to channel everyone into a solution this generation doesn't make that headache go away ...it will drag out regardless. So it would be better for MSI to do this later and all at once. I agree that top end Volta is as unlikely as top end Pascal, but if the point is to extend the relevancy of the laptop, a 1160 should hopefully be near where the 1070 for laptops is now and should suffice. [I think the 980m could suffice for this console generation, but appreciated the ability to upgrade as an ace in the hole] The CPUs in our GT72/GT80 are going to be obsolete by the time the PS4 Neo/Xbox Scorpio get replaced because you have to expect 4-5 years out of them and that brings you to 2022. It would be pretty sad for gaming if our current CPUs were still fine at that time ...it's should be all about mobile hexcores by then.

So the point of being able to upgrade the GPU is just to maintain acceptable gaming performance for the remainder of the console generation, because we're all OK on the other components until then.

If MSI just does a laptop trade now, they have to take a loss of some sort on each one. If MSI tries force the trade at the cost of what new MXM cards go for but are just exchanging laptops, then MSI would charging us $100s more for the laptops than what the cost would be if we just sold our laptops now and bought new.

...not to mention that this is dangerously close to the description of a bait-and-switch scam.

If MSI addresses this with Volta, it may sell some GTX 1160 to offset those that choose to trade in their laptop.

 

You realize you're asking them to put Golf 7 engine into Golf 2? It's impossible and they've already said why: thermals, power, motherboard. And I can ensure that Golf 8 engine won't fit into Golf 2. GT72/72S and GT80/80S are not upgradable and won't be in the future because MXM connector is different. For 1080 it even requires additional power. Who knows, maybe Volta will ditch out MXM and Nvidia will come up with even different type of connector.

 

I honestly have no desire, or need, to upgrade right now. The GTX 980M is still pretty much all playing games at 1080p and High/Ultra settings.

I'm only invested in this topic as far as knowing exactly what our options are going to be. The only way I immediately take advantage of the trade in is if it's some sort of a free upgrade. Otherwise I'll wait as long as they let me.

If MSI says we can wait for Volta, I'd be totally behind that.

 

Got extended warranty. That doesn't bother me.

Sent from my LG-H950

 

Well even with the warranty, I think we can all agree it is a PITA to go through those loopholes right? So why not fix it now.

 

Here in the UK if you send your product for repairs three times and they can't fix it you get an equal or better replacement.

Sent from my LG-H950

 

Send your gt72/gt80 3 times for Pascal upgrade and get new gt72vr/gt83vr ^^

 

LOL.

 

We really need to stop it, with the arguing and bickering.

How will we get anything done, or properly fight for our right for compensation, without unity? No movement has accomplished its goals, with everyone pushing in different directions.

WE all agree that we deserve something, yeah? Well then let's focus on that, instead of worrying about whose opinion is closer to what we truly deserve.

There's nothing a huge corporation likes to see more, than those who it owes tearing each other apart. Let's expend our energies on getting what we want.

 

Indeed. You're already lucky to be americans, so that a multinational is listen to you...discuss in this way only it makes worse withstand the short wait in which you have to submit.

 

You may have thought yourself into a painted corner

The whole reason most of us (all of us?) bought the GT72/GT80 over other options was the "Guaranteed" 2 generations of Nvidia GPU upgrades.

MSI Engineers are the ones to work out how to make this happen, not us, we don't need to defend or define how it's accomplished - we are the ones counting on MSI to make it happen.

This laptop upgrading paradigm via socketed CPU or MXM GPU is a well established method of retaining laptop value and extending the life of use of the laptop.

MSI used the GT72 8xx to 9xx upgrade kit as their own corporate MSI example held out as to how they do it, and we believed them when they continued to say the GT72 would continue to be upgradable for 2 more Nvdia GPU generations.

Then MSI teased there would be another GPU upgradeable laptop, and shortly thereafter released the GT80 with the same 2 generations of GPU upgrades promised.

There is no "fix", there are only the components that make up the upgrade kit, which MSI administers and installs.

If that upgrade kit brings a whole new laptop as a replacement for the one we send, then that's the GPU Upgrade.

It's a bit of a cheat, but if MSI waited till after designing the Pascal MXM GPU's to start thinking about how in the world are they gonna retrofit them into the promised upgradeable GT72/GT80 laptops, that's their problem.

And, I think MSI should give us same GT72/GT80 laptop owners the right to do a Volta GPU upgrade, as the second generation of GPU upgrades promised us.

If MSI wants to do another laptop swap for Volta, that's ok too, but maybe this time MSI will consider making the Volta GPU's backward compatible with the GT73VR/GT83VR laptops.

 

There is no focusing on what we deserve, as each of us comes from a different laptop situation, different experience levels, different economic situation, all different unique points of view.

We aren't going to agree on a single solution, because there isn't a single solution other than what we were promised, 2 generations of GPU upgrades.

Other than that, there are a myriad of personal POV that are motivated to ask for and get what they believe is an acceptable alternative.

The problem comes from telling others they are wrong in what they are asking for "because...." and then go on to tell us what is right for them - and therefore us.

And, I am talking about the alternatives to what we were all promised (those in the regions with the GPU upgrades promised), there is no argument that we were promised 2 generations of GPU upgrades - whether you can find the videos, press releases, or MSI hosted pages any longer online to prove it doesn't change the fact that it is so.

Some think we need to keep the conversation (arguing) going to make sure MSI knows we are serious about our desire to get what we were promised, or an acceptable alternative, and that we need to keep the "noise" going.

There, I did my part, noise away everyone - please be nice as feelings are easy to hurt and we don't want to harbour bad feelings past when this all gets resolved.

 

MSI can do this for me, and I'll be completely content with their decision:

1. Give me a GT73VR, in a fair manner (up for debate).
2. Have met with Nvidia prior to or post-Pascal, and have designed the GPU slot with the future in mind (too late if they haven't).

I honestly don't at all want a GT72VR, because I consider it a step back from my current one. Not having any form of manual GPU switching is a non-starter, for me. Why would I accept that, when my current GT72 has it? The battery life on the GT72VR won't be as good as mine.

They got rid of it, to make the GT73VR more appealing, so I want a machine that has the features of the one in which I expected to upgrade the GPU. I'm not taking less.

Thus, GT73VR or riot.

 

Nice noise

I'll do mine in a min. I like yours well put.

 

I wasn't the one that said an upgrade wasn't possible MSI did when we contacted them. So my problem with what you said is that if nothing els there is a serious problem with power consumption. Weather you use Pascal or Volta the power issue will be the same with a 10xx GPU. the new GTxx laptops have 2 power supply's bricks in order to power the new GPU (at least the GT83VR does). So how do you suppose we power this Pascal/Volta system? keep in mind I'm not a computer programmer or engineer though I have worked with them closely in the past for production. this is my view from experience only. Sure is it possible yes. MSI designed and Manufactured the Motherboards and know the capabilities of them we don't. when they say it will not work I believe it because the reason makes sense.
Power,Heat and wiring. how will you address them?

 

The 2 PSU solution used in the GT73VR/GT83VR is to use a 2 PSU duplexer or "dual PSU adapter", that lets you plug in 2 230w or 2 330w power supplies into it, and it plugs into the laptop.



The same box is/was sold by Clevo and used for that purpose for years. And, GT80 owners tried it as well, and it worked just fine.

It wasn't until the GT80S release that the GT80S 980 SLI firmware was limited to draw only 315w(?) from the wall and then pull another 15w-25w from the internal Battery, and then when that exhausts down to 30% battery remaining it switches back to pull more power from the wall.

MSI is allowing more power to be drawn from AC, 460w for the 1070 SLI and 660w 1080 SLI, there may be no actual limit - noone has tested it.

The same solution can be implemented for our GT80's, along with whatever other components need upgrading to support the GPU upgrade. Fan's, heatsinks, internal motherboard wiring harness, bottom shell of the case.

It's up to MSI to configure the upgrade.

And, if it turns out MSI didn't allow for retrofitting the Pascal MXM GPU, then turn out a new upgrade compatible version of the 1080/1070 MXM GPU, drawing less power and generating less heat.

 

Well said... Then why, for heavens sake did MSI say "it's not possible"? BTW I appreciate your technical expertise being, on this forum I learned a lot from you guys. Oh yea and you didn't address cooling.

 

I did, I mentioned the parts that would be swapped, the fans and the "heatsink".

The "heatsink" overall name for the system when pulled apart further is a "heatplate" that mounts to the CPU/GPU mounts, the "heatpipes" that run between the "heatplates", and the "heat exhangers" that release the heat to the air passing through them generated by the fan.

It's typical for new cooling hardware to swap in for the original parts with a GPU upgrade - additional power and thermal (heat) generation comes with new more powerful GPU's.

 

If its the way you say then why didn't MSI do that? I think that it's more complicated than that. They would have told us that's what is going to be done. If this is common knowledge then the MSI engineers would have thought of that. There would be no need for the program they announced. You see that doesn't follow what has happened logically. Or am I missing something?

 

I don't think they had the time to think this through. I know that sounds unlikely given the years in between the promise of upgradeable GPU's and now, but I don't think MSI expected to not be able to easily work up an affordable kit for upgrades.

Too many parts need to be changed, and it's pretty labor intensive to pull apart a laptop and replace all those parts.

Just the logistics of training enough people with the savvy to do 100k upgrades would be horrendous.

It's gotta be costs, parts and labor, and long term support.

It's easier to build new ones and swap them with us, maybe even cheaper too.

Like I said a while back, if MSI had thought this through they would have offered the Upgrade as a chassis swap, send in your laptop, and get a new one with all your stuff transferred over.

Now, that's essentially the kind of thing MSI is ending up doing.

I still think the upgrades are possible. The new motherboards and laptops aren't all that much different - given swapping key components.

If MSI needs to provide a new motherboard for the upgrade, that's where the feasibility dies.

And, that would only happen if MSI didn't design the Pascal MXM card to be standalone (without needing new motherboard support) backwards compatible.

 

This says it's simple, what about this? They cant justify having us buy a new motherboard. and all that charging us for a new motherboard and call that an upgrade we should only buy the card and GPU according to this. they didn't even mention cooling pipes and all that. (I hope you can see it and what it says)

 

Hello, i switch off few days.. i believe MSI is still silent, ok?

 

Buy New Mother Board? Buy New Cooling System? How about Pay for Lawsuit Settlement.

My system was sold as "Upgrade Able for the Next two generations of graphics card" so that means IN ITS CURRENT STATE, I should be able to put a 1080 in.

I aint paying for jack.

 

The images aren't coming up, but I will keep trying

The video's for upgrading GT73 8xx to 980m/970m came with thermal components, but not a new motherboard, that would be an extreme GPU upgrade.

And, that's why I was trying to convey, if the Pascal MXM upgrade requires a motherboard swap, MSI might as well do an entire laptop upgrade - swap chassis and RAM/storage, and save the time and expense of swapping into our old laptops a bunch of new parts.

But, again, if MSI made a backward compatible thermal/power version of the Pascal MXM GPU, it could work.

The Nvidia gang decided no "M" GPU's, only full desktop, that's where the problem sources from, it's the bump up in thermal / power requirements, and maybe some control aspects from the motherboard that are involved.

We won't know for sure, likely ever, but it's fun to speculate

 

I don't know why It wont view maybe it takes time I can see it when I click it here and it wont let me try again gives error PM me I'll try there

 

Took a few times of getting:

NotebookReview - Error
This attachment cannot be shown at this time. Please try back later.

But I see it now.

It's a generic "MXM Upgrade Kit" mention, there's no detail there.

What comes with an MXM Upgrade kit, MXM GPU + parts, usually just a new heat-plate, sometimes new heat pipes, sometimes new fan and heat exchanger, it's all dependent on the power and thermal increase from the old GPU to the new GPU.

 

I think this is kind of false advertising also. They imply that it's simple. when I read it I thought it was until after I bought it and watched some videos. remember I came from console gaming. I did MFG but that's it, mainly just the computer chips. And I'm sure others did also. They should have said merely send it in to MSI. Or something like that don't you think?

 

Not really. They said they will provide upgrade kits, not for end users, and that's that.

The owners aren't going to be the "end user" of the upgrade kit, the technician at the vendor appointed upgrade site will need those details - and get them in the box along with the kit of parts.

For some upgrades just an MXM card is enough, but not for high end GPU's that each have a different parts layout, power needs, and thermal profile - GPU's keep getting hotter.

I've covered all the angles, re-read stuff to let it sink in

 

I agree and this is why:

I really don't see me trading my laptop. In all seriousness, if I was offered a GT72 with a 1060 for a free even trade ...keeping my 980m 8GB laptop with W8.1 and DSR is a no-brainer.

If that deal is an obvious pass, I don't think there is an alternative deal to be made. I'm not giving up W8.1, DSR and a bunch of cash for something with a 1070. A part of me would go so far as to keep my W8.1 and DSR 980m 8GB laptop over something free with a 1070 and W10.

... and the rest of me thinks that first part is crazy...

That's kinda where the line is at for me. I've been very adamant about staying off W10 for various reasons, so to me losing W8.1 is a tangible loss and overall net negative in the equation.

All in all, I have one of the most powerful non-W10/non-"windows-as-a-service" laptops there is and will ever be and that it has manual graphics switching and DSR are just two other big bonuses ...and because of that I'm pretty sure keeping my GT72 with 980m 8GB, W8.1 and DSR is the right answer ...and overall smart thing to do, unless the offer is stupid crazy in my favor.

...that's why I want MSI to find some way to provide my current GT72 with a respectable upgrade to my 980m 8GB.

All other options are either going to be stupid for me to accept or need to be too stupid for me to pass up, there seems to be no middle ground I can think of. Yet even if I choose to keep my laptop ...which is very likely, that doesn't mean MSI should be scot-free if they fail to provide new GPUs. There has to be some compensation required for failing to supply new GPUs to those that keep their original laptop.


[EDIT] On a separate note, what is this video? Is it official MSI?



...anyway, I saved a copy of the entire video. should it be needed for future legal issues.