GT72/GT72S and GT80/GT80S Owners GPU Upgrade Discussion

Are you UK based?


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I like this! Let us know the result.

 

After I my last email to MSI UK stating that I would only accept a cost comparable alternative to the MXM upgrade, they said they would take it to head office.

Today's update:

Another 2 weeks+.

All whilst MSI USA tell their customers they have until the end of this month to register.

MSI get all your eggs in one basket!

 

This is precisely why I gave up waiting.

 

Yeah, I hear you. I wasn't going to upgrade the GPU in my GT72 until after Christmas anyway. So I'll wait it out. My 980m is still smashing most of the games I play at respectable levels too.

 

One major ingredient that is not spoken about in all of this is the actual numbers involved. This would be pertinent in the final decisions being made as to whether or not this trade-in has any beneficial effects. Especially, since shipping with adequate insurance will presumably be extensive. Aside from any direct losses, I will need to purchase an external HDD that will hold the backed up data.

From the simple math that I did the "New" sale prices and the "Current" sale prices are being considered by MSI with this trade-in and if people are not considering this difference themselves, they will be missing anywhere from a few hundred to nearly a thousand dollars in their projected losses calculations. IMHO, this figure is integral and to assume that MSI will not consider this would be negligent on our parts. Business is still business regardless of the situation and we cannot expect a company to foot that sort of loss. Just compensation is all that I am after. Time to prepare should be part of this compensation if that were to stretch into the 11 series as well. Considering the time frame in which MSI is attempting to resolve this in.

Due to the fact that products lose their retail values after purchase, considering our own personal loss of product value may negate some of the losses that we are assuming we are retaining. For example:
MSI GT80S-002 = $3400.00 (New Sale)
- = $2580.00 (Current Sale)
= $820.00 (New/Current Value)

MSI Trade-in for equivalencies and 1070 sli
=$1400.00 (New Sale)
+ =$2580.00 (Current Sale)
=$3980.00 (New Equal?)

MSI Trade-in for equivalencies and 1080 sli
= $2000.00 (New Sale)
= $4580.00 (New Equal?)

The way I am figuring this out is the $820.00 difference is actually subtracted from the cost of the trade-in value. This will give an idea of any savings versus an ideal situation where we would have been able to retain our cards and bought upgrades on our own, as if none of this had ever occurred. For example:
Trade-in for 1070 sli
= $1400.00 (New Sale)
- = $ 820.00 (New/Current Value
= $ 580.00 (Total Cost Trade-in)

Ideal without Trade-in
= $1400.00 (New Sale)
= $ 800.00 (Resale Value of 980M sli)
= $ 600.00 (Total Cost Ideal)

As you can see, these differences in cost are not that much different. In fact, if we did not have to do anything such as mailing devices, backing up data and losing time, etc., it would be nearly identical. MSI, however, simply is not considering other factors for compensation. Cost wise, also, the sale price of the new cards are not very high when considering historical costs of equivalent cards and will be the case once they are purchasable via third parties. I may be adding to this if anymore information becomes available to me.

 

You are considering a different situation as the basis for your calculations, not what is really happening to us.

MSI is forcing us to sell our laptops for less than we paid for them - justifying the trade-in cost as you are by depreciation of the value of our laptops over the years.

That is not at our request or expectation. We don't want to, nor should we have to, sell our laptops now or later to get the 2 generations of MXM GPU upgrades promised to us by MSI.

We requested and expected MXM GPU upgrades - a differential cost of adding a new GPU and selling our old GPU.

For example:

980m = value = $750 today

1070m = value = $950 today

So the total cost of upgrading from 2 x 980m's to 2 x 1070m's is 2 x $200 => $400.

We don't lose $ on our laptops, we don't need to pull our old DDR3 / M.2 SATA drives and trade them in (also at an unnecessary loss) for DDR4 and M.2 PCIE drives.

We only pay the differential cost of upgrading the GPU's. The expected amount, and we do it when we are ready - 1 to 2 years from now for some of us, maybe even at the 2nd GPU upgrade cycle instead of this one.

Instead we are forced to buy a whole new computer, take a loss on our current computer, pay for new GPU's, and *not get reimbursed* for the value of our current GPU's.

That's a horrible horribly unexpected turn of fortune, from a marginal cost and marginal disruption of our perfectly working laptops to a whole new laptop, with new problems, and a huge cost that includes a large loss of value to our current investment.

No thank you, your explanation only further confirms we are getting screwed.

 

I was heavily looking at an asus back before I baught my MSI... literally only reason I went for the MSI was for the upgradability component wise and promised card upgrades down the road.

Now I am punished for doing exactly what they advertised by upgrading my laptops RAM and they want me to pay almost half the price I did for my current laptop to upgrade even if I could.

 

Also those of us With a GT72s or GT80s are getting further screwed because we are not only having to pay more for this upgrade , we are also losing features and storage space due to lack of M.2 slots.

 

The time constraints MSI is applying are really putting the manure icing on this fertilizer cake.

 

Hi yes I am based in the UK.

I will wait to see what MSI offer, if I consider it reasonable then I will accept, if not then I shall seek advice, first steps probably through the CAB (Citizens Advice).

 

Hi Myco

Is there any chance you could provide a link to where I can download the PDF as I keep getting an error message.

Also this form is for the US trade in, is it therefore not valid for UK trade in?

As already stated I have sent emails to both Natalie and Neil,should this not suffice?

Regards

 

That seems unfortunate.

 

We have a class action group going.

Send an email to [email protected]

 

Hi no need to worry found a copy of the form at the link below:

https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=274983.42

All details are included in it

 

So while the trade in for the GT72 with 980M looks okay, there's also the issue with the downgrade in CPU from the 6820HK, which is unlocked, to the 6700HQ. I mean I bought this laptop specifically for the GPU and CPU and I would be shafted by the trade in program. Has anyone heard anything about this?

 

You can reply to the email sent to you with the trade-in offer, and ask them such questions.

Please let us know what they reply

 

"...also the issue with the downgrade in CPU from the 6820HK..."

Why do so many people, in their anger at MSI, overlook the fact that MSI clearly stated there would be no downgrades in other equipment : "same cpu, same ssd...". It's no wonder they don't respond much as no one seems to read what they say anyway. With all the faux lawyers here, you would think they could at least read the ENTIRE message. I'm not saying MSI doesn't have a problem, but at least keep it to known and obvious facts and stop adding non-facts to rile up the fury.

 

Show me one GT72vr that is the same specs as a GT72s minus the graphics.

 

Why? Once again, here is the email info from MSI directly. It's obvious they didn't want to create a chart that would cover every variation as it would be unwieldy to navigate and huge. So, they added


1. The new GTX 10 series laptop that you will receive will contain the equivalent components and specifications of your originally purchased laptop ( equivalent CPU/RAM/SSD/HDD etc.).

2. If you would like to trade in your laptop, you would be required to send it back to us first. We will then be conducting thorough examinations of the unit to make sure everything is in working order before we collect your payment and send your new GTX 10 series equivalent laptop to you.

 

Because they've already tried to pawn off a bogus equivalency saying that 1 NVMe M.2 slot is better than 3 SATA M.2 shots because the bulk transfer rate is faster.

 

"equivalent components"
I want to know EXACTLY what I am getting down to the USB ports. Why did they not include that in the first reply we got? Don't you think it would have cleared up all of this confusion?

 

ramdom 4k read write on samsung nvme is not actually that amazing

 

I agree with you that you are 100% losing money on this crap deal MSI is offering, but you're assuming way too much and over estimating the value of the 980M today.

1. A BRAND NEW gtx 980m can be purchased for $720. The problem with that is that the 980m is last gen and stomped by even the new gtx 1060 which quickly deflates the price and value. Who in their right mind would pay $720 for a used 980m that is beat by even the new baby 1060?

2. The market today for MXM isn't the same market we've enjoyed in years past. Most laptops are now using BGA, or using some sort of non-standard MXM format and therefore couldn't use your used 970m and 980m cards. In fact you would be trying to sell those 970 and 980m cards to other MSI users and maybe a handful Clevo and Alienware users. So who exactly is going to buy your cards at stated retail price when they are all also selling their cards for this upgrade?

Like I said I totally agree MSI is screwing all of you, but the cost of upgrade would have probably been far more than most of you estimate and more so as time goes on. I can't say what the 970m and 980m cards should be sold at but it's not hard to say that those values are not accurate.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nvidia-GeForce-GTX-980M-8GB-GDDR5-for-Clevo-Alienware-MSI/182195840485?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=39850&meid=f9b150a7e4be4685baac47c7b53add02&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=6&sd=361783381973

This used 980m 8gb card is for sale for $599 today. This also does not take into account loss of income from eBay, PayPal, shipping etc. All costs also not assumed by above calculations.

In addition you need a new heatsink. The costs you are quoting are the cost of the video card alone. MSI upgrade kits included the new thermal heatsinks and you have to pay for that as well.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NVIDIA-GTX-...48dc12f&pid=100009&rk=1&rkt=1&sd=131961991688

$970 for this MSI 1070 without the heatsink. So on 1070m is probably closer to $1050 with the heatsink.

 

eBay prices for rare hardware are absurd. Remember the 1K USD 1TB SM961s? The market for 980Ms is people who want to upgrade their old machines or replace cards out of warranty.

 

MSI USA already provided their costs for MXM kits, GTX1080 kit they said is $1,000.

 

@Kevin@GenTechPC

Are you guys working with MSI to try to sort this debacle out?

 

That isn't the price of the MXM upgrade kit. That is the estimated upgrade cost over your current setup. It looks as if MSI is ASSUMING (incorrectly probably) the cost out of pocket that it would have cost you to upgrade to next gen by selling your current gen GPU.

Again assuming my assumption of $1050 for a 1070 and associated heatsink. If you sold your single 980m at say $500 after other costs and fees. You're paying $550 out of pocket for just the 1070 and heatsink. MSI looks to be charging you an extra $150 and with that you get a brand new laptop.

I do feel like MSI should step up and offer some sort of additional discount or at least tip the scales in your favor because they failed to deliver what they were advertising. But at the same time they never once said what the cost would be to upgrade.

Imagine if MSI announces tomorrow that they have came up with their own solution to deliver upgradable GPU. However because Nvidia failed them it costs them more to develop than anticipated. They are still giving you your upgradable GPU but it will cost you $2000 now. What would your argument be? They are still delivering the promise just not at the price you were expecting.

 

The trade-in program is between MSI and end-users directly since MSI does not allow resellers to get involved with such program. Thanks for asking.

 

The email I received this past Monday does not state just equivalent, here's the copy and paste straight from the email I received with highlighted words for emphasis which is why I brought up the question.

"the new GTX 10 series laptop that you will receive will contain equivalent/similar components and specifications of your originally purchased laptop (equivalent CPU/RAM/SSD/HDD etc.)."

And much like any thing legal, the devil is in the details and words matter. Similar can be construed to mean that the 6700HQ is close enough in performance so they don't need to give you the 6820. So maybe your email contained different wording, which is great for you and a bit concerning since this would mean that they do not have a concrete plan yet, but not so great for those of us who got my particular email so calm yourself down a bit.

Also there was more information about upgrading to the 1080:
"If you want to upgrade to a laptop with an even better GPU, you must pay the upgrade cost AND the price difference between the new upgraded units.

For example, if the upgraded equivalent to your laptop is a laptop with a GTX 1070 but you want to upgrade to a unit with GTX 1080 instead, you must pay the $700 upgrade cost to the GTX 1070 IN ADDITION to the price different between the new GTX 1070 unit and the GTX 1080 unit. So if the MSRP of the upgraded GTX 1070 unit is $2000 and the GTX 1080 unit is $3000, you would have to pay $1000 + $700 = $1700."

Not exactly a great deal or really fair in my opinion and serves to lend credence that they may not be offering a 6820 when you do the trade in.

 

How are you more privy to the cost of an MSI MXM upgrade kit than MSI?

Why are you assuming $1050 when rjtech lists the MXM1070 for Clevo @ $825 with heatsink and screws?

Why would they offer the trade in, upgrade scheme if they could provide this for $2k? You don't make sense. You pluck guessed prices out of thin air.

I would suggest you analyse the existing information and consider it.

 

The estimate of $950 for a single MSI 1070 was taken from an actual shipping product from Eurocom, a full upgrade kit to a 1070 which sells for $983:
http://www.eurocom.com/ec/upgrade(2,348,0)ec

MSI should be able come in a bit cheaper, so I rounded down to $950.

A minor $50-$100 difference x 2 = $100-$200 more for the upgrade differential cost plus or minus a small difference in what you can get for your 980m/970m used, is still hundreds and thousands less than what MSI is offering to us through a disruptive whole laptop swap.

My original point stands. MSI isn't offering us what they promised, which would have been a relatively non-disruptive MXM GPU upgrade.

We could have kept our Laptop's with our long time investment in stable operation, and productive use. Spent a lot less money. And, had the flexibility of doing that MXM GPU upgrade now or 2 years from now with the Volta Upgrade.

What MSI is offering is a disruptive mess, which each of us will be spending a lot of time cleaning up over the next year.

Many hours will be spent migrating our OS, hardware, and tuning our new laptops, many of us migrating to that mess of an OS - Windows 10 - from Windows 8.1/7, which will be a nightmare for most of us.

 

You included my post asking you to send a follow up email to the MSI sender of the trade-in offer, and let us know their response.

Did that happen yet? Are you still waiting for a response from MSI?

 

I did not realize that it went to both you and flint350, my bad. But to answer your question, no I have not heard back from anyone at MSI yet but I will post it if/when I get one.

 

Not a problem, it's happened to me as well.

The editor keeps previous edits, which you may or may not intend to include, so I scroll back in the edit buffer to make sure a previous edit or reply isn't hitching a ride on my post.

MSI is slow to respond / react, likely due to the volume of responses / questions from all of us.

It's too bad MSI put up that Oct. 31 deadline, I hope they extend it to allow time for interaction, and to make sure every GT72/GT80 owner has a chance to be included in the trade-in offer - or a future MXM GPU upgrade program.

 

The brief table of trade-in's doesn't go into any details as to what hardware the new laptop will contain other than the GPU upgrade.

Some owners have posted specific trade-in offers in other countries that did indeed substitute a lessor 6700HQ instead of an unlocked CPU, so there is some reason for concern.

If you have a 6820HK processor in your current laptop, be sure and send a question to MSI - reply to the trade-in offer and / the follow up email address, asking MSI - requiring MSI - to assure you that the replacement laptop will have the same or better CPU, M.2 slots, Screen, etc - any specific hardware you have now that you want to make sure you have - or better - in the new laptop.

Make sure to include all the specific hardware details of your current laptop, and request MSI provide you with the specific details of the replacement laptop.

MSI needs to hear these requests from each and everyone of us. I have sent my questions in to MSI, and received this in response on Oct 20th:

"From: USGTTRADEIN <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 12:32 PM
Subject: MSI GT Trade-In Questions

Greetings, valued gamers!

We have received all of your questions and concerns about the GT Trade-In Program. We are currently still working internally on having answers for everyone. We should have answers to everyone’s questions soon, and we expect to be contacting each of you, one by one, starting next week. Please continue to be patient and allow us some time to get to everyone.

Thank you, MSI"

I have not received any further updates via email, but today I received this as a PM:

I don't usually share PM's publicly, but this is part of the MSI trade-in experience and I think we all need to share communications from MSI with each other so we all are kept up to date, as MSI isn't doing that for us.

Of course personal and requested private communications can't be shared - so far I don't have any of those in relation to the MSI trade-in.

 

GT80 w/980M SLI GT83VR Titan Pro w/GTX 1070 SLI $1400

Ok we take your price at $950 per card. That is $1900 for the MXM cards alone according to MSI prices. Lets say you can get $500 per 980m MXM on eBay after fees from both eBay and PayPal. Probably more associated shipping and insurance costs.

MSI is essentially charging you $500 to upgrade and get a brand new system in addition to getting 2 gtx 1070s in that laptop. One GTX 1070 in the laptop is close to SLI 980m and a hell of a lot better when SLI isn't supported.

$500 while not fair, isn't a huge deal breaker either when you consider you're getting a brand new laptop which probably will include a full 2 year warranty.

 

Clevo 1070s are compatible with MSI systems?

The point I was trying to make is that if MSI really wanted to tell you to pound sand they legally could. They could easily release a card that is fully compatible but costs $2000. You would have no legal recourse as there was no price for the upgrade ever mentioned. They could legally argue that because Nvidia screwed them on the 10 series and it is costing them more for development of the MXM compatible card. While it sucks those costs can be passed on to the consumer all while satisfying their MXM upgrade promise. Unless you can provide me some sort of documentation where they stated the upgrade price?

 

Nope, neither did I. Just presented an alternative for cost relevance.

If they 'could', they would. There would more profit than discounting full new notebooks. GT73VR Titan Pro w/GTX 1080 ($3,099.00 retail) for $1000 + existing notebook (GT72 2QE I7-4720HQ GTX980m) or they sell the GPU MXM unit that costs them sub $500 for $2k.

Except they cannot:

Want to try again?

 

O why not. Sure. Yes Nvidia will continue to make and sell discrete CHIPS. Are you trying to tell me that Nvidia designed all of the MXM cards that are in Clevo and MSI systems? Not the chips, the actual cards and design. Have you wondered why Clevo has an additional power cord attached to their design? Want to tell me again the design and power requirements aren't higher with the 10 series?

They can sell their cards at whatever price they decide. Most 10 series cards aren't being sold anywhere near the MSRP that Nvidia claimed on stage at the unveiling. GTX 1080s are priced at the Ti this gen. They won't tell all of you to go pound sound fully because it's bad business.

 

The GT80 SLI-263 laptop uses DDR3 memory, and has 4x M.2 SSD's, runs Windows 8.1 - which I refused to upgrade to Windows 10, and has had a lot of hours of configuration done to set it up with a stable environment for me to work and play.

Upgrading the MXM GPU's successfully alone - without any other substantial functional changes to my GT80 SLI-263 - is what I was promised, and what I planned on for the future of my laptop, through 2 generations of GPU's.

The laptop swap requires, new memory, new SSD's (1 fewer!!), a new supported OS - Windows 10 - which I can downgrade to Windows 8.1, but it won't be a supported OS for MSI hardware support for my "new" laptop.

Then there is all the time to make Windows 10 and my new laptop stable for work and play. Hundreds of hours over the 2 years I would want to keep the laptop.

For me it's a waste of time well beyond the $ cost.

It's a mess, and MSI needs to fix this but releasing MXM GPU upgrade kits for our laptops, as promised.

MSI isn't doing us or themselves, or anyone else any favor by substituting this limited time and limited options laptop trade-in for the 2 generations of MXM GPU upgrades MSI promised us GT80/GT72 owners.

It's not cool MSI, fix it.

 

I 100% agree man you and that is a rationale argument to them against this over priced trade in. I was simply trying to offer a rationale argument for the other people that may not care about the items you listed above. Maybe it will include a brand new warranty and that will entice them. Maybe the new laptop smell and plastic wrapping will get them ready for the trade in. In the situation we were talking about $500 is actually a very fair price for a brand new warrantied laptop if you don't care about the items you listed.

For some I think the trade in might not be a terrible deal and for others it's a terrible deal. The ones being offered the CPU downgrade it's a very bad deal.

If you're anything like me my laptops usually look brand new even years later. I take care of my possessions because I work very hard to get them and I have a bit of OCD. Having a brand new laptop wouldn't be a big deal for me. The new warranty (if offered) would be great though.

 

MSI is *NOT* satisfying their 2 generations of MXM GPU upgrade promises by offering a *single* trade-in offer.

That's what you are missing most of all in your "calculations", we aren't getting what we were promised.

MSI can indeed engineer MXM GPU upgrades, they don't need to milk us for more money for swapping for different laptops than what we have.

We like our laptops, they run great, we want to keep the same laptops, and upgrade the MXM GPU's, twice, now and when Volta comes out.

Anything else is too costly, even if it was an even swap with no additional cash exchanged, there is a labor intensive component that is just too costly in unplanned time spent.

 

It's very possible that if you purchase the laptop "upgrade" you will be able to purchase an MXM upgrade down the road because you now have one of the more power hungry laptops with modified motherboards. Have you considered that?

 

No, I really do think this trade-in deal is going to be a large burden for every owner, and I can't think of a useful example as an exception.

Everyone is going to go without their laptops, without their comfortable hard earned configurations, we all have to start over again, many with a whole new mess of an OS in Windows 10.

It's not something that can be glossed over with simple numbers, they are only a brief and insulting part of the whole mess.

The fact MSI is asking for any $$$ when burdening us with all this change and delay and uncertainty is insulting.

These are all high end laptops, owned by professionals that have spent a lot of time making them work for their own needs, and to uproot them in the middle - prime of usefulness - with a new laptop with no migration services or transfer of memory and storage hardware and data, putting it all on the owner to deal with, is unconscionable - not right or reasonable.

There is no rationale to their idea that the single trade-in is equivalent to 2 MXM GPU upgrades, there is no argument that can smooth this over.

The only solution that can make this right is to proceed with the original 2 generations of MXM GPU upgrades, and that would make things right.

With some consideration from MSI / Nvidia for all this wasted energy and time trying to fit a single round peg into 2 generations of MXM GPU square deals.

 

Maybe for those with older laptops, but many affected users purchased their laptops less than a year ago. A new warranty (if this even happens) and a new laptop in exchange for a slightly older laptop with most of its warranty left is not a great deal. Not to mention the fact that offering the GT72VR as a suitable replacement for the GT72 is insulting given the crippled chipset features.

 

No, of course not!!

MSI haven't even hinted at the replacement laptop's as being upgradeable, and I think it's insensitive of you to suggest we should assume or believe that.

MSI hasn't made it work now, even with 2 years of promises giving them time to figure out a solution - which exists!!!

That's what you are forgetting to mention. Why are you forgetting to mention this??

MSI can make the MXM GPU upgrades work for this generation, right now, and they choose to not do it, even though they promised us for 2 years they would provide 2 generations of MXM GPU upgrades.

What makes you think MSI will provide MXM GPU upgrades in the future for other laptops when they haven't promised any upgrades for them?

Eurocom (and others?) already have provided MXM GPU upgrades to their laptop owners, and so can MSI.

Then MSI can continue on and offer the 2nd generation MXM GPU upgrade, into the same laptops we have right now.

 

I thought MSI stated in the email that they would be working closely with the resellers?

 

If you bought your laptop from an authorized build-to-order seller with customizations.

 

I don't know if they work and neither do you. Neither of us have tested if they work or are fully functional when plugged into a system. There isn't a single shred of evidence of any MSI MXM 10series cards working in older gen GT72 and GT80 systems AFAIK. Video proof of it working would shut MSI up fairly quickly. Until then you can't say it will work.