GT72/GT72S and GT80/GT80S Owners GPU Upgrade Discussion

This is a little bit off topic and old but guy sued Red Bull for not "giving wings" as they advertised and won that case. So I think you guys in US have pretty high chance of winning that lawsuit.
Here is the topic: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...it-proves-Red-Bull-doesnt-give-you-wings.html

 

I believe my post was quickly missed so thought I would try again and will summarize.
Like everyone else, I am waiting to hear back from MSI on the trade-in program and probably like most, not entirely happy with the initial offer for the trade-in etc.

I currently have a GT72 Dominator Pro G 6QE with 24GB DDR4, 1TB 7200, 250GB M.2, 6700HQ and 980M GPU that I use mainly for video editing and audio engineering. Since most on this forum seem to be focused on gaming, I was looking for advice on performance increase (or decrease) for those specific areas of video editing, rendering etc.

If for some reason I end up with the initial proposed trade of the GT72VR with the GTX1070, will I see a large benefit over my current laptop as is?

Any suggestions or comments are appreciated. Thanks!

 

Red Bull settled the lawsuit to avoid the cost and distraction of litigation. However, Red Bull maintains that its marketing and labeling have always been truthful and accurate, and denies any and all wrongdoing or liability.

Source.

 

Which software are you using for video editing ? Since Adobe is not bothering to properly support GPGU (CPU+GPU) rendering and nvencoder, and since they are not caring to support mainstream GPU (i.e. not unless it's an overpriced Quadro), I don't think that the 1070 would bring much improvement but I might be wrong. If you use a properly coded software with working HW GPU acceleration and GPU encoding, then you can gain some time in encoding. Are you doing 3D rendering as well ? AE ? Maya ?
The best to upgrade for you would be the CPU I think...
Anyone using their GT72 for video encoding and/or rendering ?

 

Just gonna drop this off here in case people aren't feeling too thrilled about trading in their machines.

 

i am belittling only as much as i am being fear mongered. If you read the actual email from msi, noone is being forced to pay full cost up front. the default option is to send yours in, wait 2 days for them to check condition of machine, then you can figure out if there is additional cost and decide if you want to pay. i just chose a different path, i wanted for ME and to me its not scary.

so then i choose option B and for some reason my decision gets fear mongered cause i chose an option in my interest?? what a bunch of misleading crap of "msi charging full price and then deciding". its just an option i chose out of different options- get over it. but now because of the misleading comment, people are writing like its the only option.

we are given options. choose the one best for you, and dont fear monger the decisions of others.


personally i am not being forced to accept a lower spec machine, i get pretty much the same sepc- same hertz (within 100 hz) , ssd size and ram, as my older machine, with analogous (although not identical) expansion options. gtx 1080 costs 1300 at rjtech or eurocom to purchase by itself today(no bracket or h/s), then another 200 for power brick.
its 1600 at eurcocom with h/s and bracket and power brick.

so the way i see it the price from msi is roughly in line with what it would cost me if i wanted to buy a kit off the shelf today and dremel/solder it myself.

i am not sure who is being forced...i asked for what i wanted (1080 instead of 1070) and was given the option. so if you want something, you should put in in writing and ask for it.


if you want a 1070 in a gt73vr you should write to them that thats what you want, and post the reply back into this thread, instead of whining that "people are being forced to accept something".
did anyone ask in writing about cost of 1070 in gt73? what was the reply? can you post a screenshot?

 

You are entirely free to take the offer they gave you. Good luck with your machine and let us know how it handles the 1080. I am interested in that specific model.

We have discussed our different opinions on the matter, but if a user decides to take advantage of the offer, it is up to them and they should not be looked down upon. The offer is not "insulting" to all users. Each user has a different perspective of value and needs, so if it suits you, go ahead.

 

I have asked for pretty much the same as you .first was to cross ship the laptop and charge me retail until I return the other.

 

Those people were questioning the integrity of MSI, while you were questioning the integrity of the posters by belittling them. Huge difference...

 

i sent in my billing info to msi today, so lets see how long until i receive my new machine.

i will add a disclaimer- I am in Los Angeles as is the MSI HQ (about 30 miles apart) so the actual time in mail part will probably a be a few days faster than for people in other places....but based on my experience it should give some idea of how fast they process the paperwork and handle the billing.

anyway, they are on the clock now to execute.

i'll post when i receive it.

 

found it faster to render adobe ae using just 15x vray... and I have not, myself, found a good renderer for c4d that plugs into ae that will use gpu's

 

How is my trepidation at all tinfoil paranoia, or fear mongering?

They aren't able to tell me the value of my machine up front. They also aren't sharing the methodology that will be applied, during the valuation of my machine.

How then, can I consider the process anything but arbitrary? All I'd be doing is buying a laptop at full price, then receiving back whatever they decide to give me. Can you not at all empathize, with why that'd make me nervous?

That offer presents a a very different scenario, than "pay only for what the GPU would have cost". They originally offered me $700 for a GT72VR. Now they'd be telling me that they're charging the full $1,899, and I'll get refunded whatever valuation they apply to my laptop. Yep, that's enough to make me uneasy.

I'm not judging you for taking the offer. I just feel there's more than enough justification, to question whether MSI will give back what we deserve.

 

I haven't seen any "fear mongering", I have seen valid responses to being mistreated. Value judgment isn't a proper response.

We each have a right to voice our opinion without getting shouted down with recriminating judgments.

Please take the high road and don't belittle other owners in here for their feelings and responses.

 

did you read the email screenshot i posted? its all spelled out in there.

they clearly state you dont have to pay up front. you can send in your machine for eval without paying anything. so i dont see your argument where the 1899$ cost comes from- if you dont want to pay up front , just take the other option and send it in for eval for free. sending in yours for eval is the DEFAULT option they provide. the crossshipping is what i specifically requested for MY purposes.


the eval criteria is just about spelled out in the email if you read it- missing or damaged parts will detract from the value and they will be valued at retail cost. oem defects covered within warranty periods will not be charged ( this basically spells out that oem damage outside warranty coverage will be billed at retail cost). so if all your parts are in place you pay the cost they already provided. if your case/shell has physical damage , subtract cost of the shell from laptop value ( you can get cost for various msi parts from your vendor of choice on this forum- xotic, gentech etc will all help). so you can calculate the value of your machine....you have the tools and dont need to guess..just to put in the work.

its all in the email i pasted http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...rade-discussion.795236/page-267#post-10382040

 

Has anyone reading this thread had to RMA their laptop for a new GTX980M from MSI, what did MSI charge for the replacement?

 

i dont know about 980m from msi....

but after reading the thread where the guy with the older alienware put in the new msi branded 1070 mxm.....
his vendor is selling msi branded 1070 mxm for 900 usa $ (1200 canadian dollars) without heatsink/brick/bracket

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/fs-msi-1070n-n17e-a2-g2.797652/

same guy is selling 980m for 720 usa $


thats the only place i know of, where u can just buy an msi branded 1070 ...the ones on rjtech and eurocom are clevo branded

 

The main complaint I have with MSI's trade-in program, is the "evaluation of your laptop" that determines what you pay.

These laptops all could take an MXM GPU upgrade, all pay the same amount for that upgrade, and the condition of the laptop would never enter into the cost equation.

MSI needs to stop playing around and give everyone the same value for their laptops.

We are accommodating MSI's failure to follow through with their promise of 2 years of MXM GPU upgrades, and MSI needs to be accommodating in their solution.

We don't need added inconveniences and costs that wouldn't have been associated with a straight MXM GPU upgrade.

The primary thing is to stop basing the cost on the condition of our laptops. That is not relevant to a GPU upgrade.

Just for the record my GT80 SLI-263 is in pristine condition, so it doesn't affect me personally, but I see this not only ruining other peoples chance of a fair trade-in, but also delaying all of us from getting our replacement laptops back.

Including the turnaround from sending a laptop, waiting for MSI to getting around to an evaluation, and then responding to the results, all add's delay to the trade-in process.

MSI, please stop this. @snallygaster @MSI Myco @MSI Natalie @MSIGeno

Update: Also sent as an email to MSI trade-in addresses.

 

So it's been just a day short of 3 weeks since I got the last email "We have received all of your questions and concerns about the GT Trade-In Program...Please continue to be patient and allow us some time to get to everyone."

Has anyone here heard from these people? And what happened to the class action lawsuit I read several comments about?

 

Did you read a few of the prior pages before you posted this? I'm assuming not.

 

So that means One single person out of all of us in this thread has gotten a response. At that rate. I might hear from them sometime in 2018.

 

MSI 1070 work in an Alienware that came with a 980M!!!!

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/msi-1070-in-alienware-17-r1-ranger-success.797893/

https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=...id=AFDF108874C06917!3573&cid=AFDF108874C06917

 

i read thru it, and its not clear crystal what sustained tdp he is running at.
the jist of it is his old laptop already had 330 watt psu, and had updated the laptops original cooling beyond original spec..so i am sure benchmark runs will be great, but i have doubts about sustained performance...he reports some crashes etc and no reports of sustained perf...so i would not be eager to take that route...

also as i noted on previous pages, his vendor charges 900 usa $ for the 1070 without new heatsink or psu.

his mod is amazing tho from a mod perspective....from dremeling the heatsink to the physical cutting for the 1070 card..guts and skill there for sure.

for us its back to same issue of 330 watt psu, mobo to support it, and improved cooling to handle it.

i mean if someone is willing i would be interested to find out the results of a gt72 980m owner buying a 1070, finding some aftermarket fans that fit the existing heatsink, using the 300watt psu and doing same mod to see where it gets them.

 

They claim we're only paying for the GPU cost, but we're giving them that money up front, plus the value of the laptop we currently have, which they make money from on the back end. That really means we're paying at least double of the price they state.

Does MSI think we're too dumb to figure that out?

 

I think they said we are paying the cost of the upgrade. Theoretically if we upgrade to an equivalent card we are paying the amount of that GPU and trading chassis for chassis.

It's all bollocks of course.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Depends on what you bought and what their final offer is. I mean I know that there were GT72's laptops that ran with 6700 and the HM series chipsets and the upgrade offered to go to a GT72VR wouldn't be too bad. However they're taking huge liberties in what they think people have bought and just lumped all GT72 users into the lowest common denominator which is just such a wrong thing to do. I also completely agree that they need to ditch the evaluation language and just simply state that the laptop has to be in working, bootable order, no cracked screen and with all the original hardware and leave it at that.

At any rate, like it's been said before by someone else; the program is going to be good for some but not for most.

 

I just had another concern pop in my head. If MSI is giving the option to hold out until Volta, will they give our laptops the same valuation then, as they are now?

I'll be sure to ask that, when they send the next email to me.

 

Wouldn't be a bad question considering the rumors of volta being released early next year. Definitely post if you find out any info about it.

 

they are not offering to hold out untill Volta, they are offering to hold out until second generation (next gen from todays gtx1080). so if next mobile gpu is a 1080ti based on tweaked pascal, the upgrade offer will go only as far as that card and volta would be 3rd gen. either way next gen will be faster, but it may not be volta based

 

There won't be a 1080 Ti in notebooks, which is why I ignored that scenario.

 

it doesnt matter what they call it, the takeaway is that msi is not commiting to giving you volta so there is risk in making that assumption. (when 980m came out i believed next gen would have been pascal, but instead they made the 980 Laptop version, so i would not be surprised if they did something similar.)

arguably the more interesting reason for delaying one generation is next gen intel chip will have more pci express lanes, so if they wire those to thunderbolt port properly, that next gen laptop could actually have a viable external gpu support with sufficient pci lanes for the first time ever..that right there is a worthy reason to delay unless you have a pressing need

 

Nvidia is using desktop chips right off the bat now. The only card left is the 1080 Ti. That guarantees there is no new Pascal generation. Nvidia is going straight to Volta.

 

while logically you make sense, i think you are missing my point.
the "generations" msi is talking about are not Nvidia generations.
Msi is talking about the next top laptop gpu they will put into their next laptop, that will be faster than the existing gtx1080..... whatever that happens to be and whenever that happens to be...while odds favor volta, the language msi uses is not "volta", so i would not bet that it will be volta.
since they are way out of mxm spec already in terms of tdp, nothing prevents them from putting in a higher clocked pascal in there and calling it "super laptop 1090" and selling that as "Second generation" or "next generation" and showing all the usual bar graphs on their webpage of "x percent faster than old card" etc etc...

it was exact same scenario with 980 desktop and 980m being released back to back in summer/fall 2014.....i thought "oh wow only card left to release is 980Ti, so next laptop gen, next year will be pascal for sure, no way they can shove a 980ti in a laptop". lo and behold they invented some marketecture based on maxwell and branded it "980 laptop".

they released same card for mobile and desktop with pascal, because the tdp allowed it. if in the future they want to move the goal posts on the tdp between desktop and laptop, those segments can easily end up with different specs even if they are based on same die.

again- while i agree that volta is a possible outcome for next gen.... its misleading to people when you say "msi lets me hold out and not upgrade until volta"

 

Since when does the 980 is a different gen from 980M ?? Since when MSI and not Nvidia defines the GPU gens ???
Generation of GPU:
- Maxwell = 960M, (965M ?), 970M, 980M, 980
- Pascal = 1060, 1070, 1080
That's only 2 gens, when the Ti is out it's the SAME ****ING GEN (= Pascal). Let's not play dumb like MSI and refuse to admit Nvidia facts & roadmap.
The next gen after Pascal IS Volta, not Ti or Bs or whatever letter you add to the current gen...

 

"Msi is talking about the next top laptop gpu" absolutely not. It is clearly mentioned upgrade to next gen GPU, not next gen laptop, or not next laptop gpu ! It is clearly written GENERATION.
This is not questionable. When you advertise an upgrade-able GPU, and you talk about the next generation of GPU, this is absolutely not related to the OEM laptop generation, or to the next GPU available (in this case same gen). It was NOT the same scenario from 980M to 980. And even if I enter into this reasoning, 980M to 980 in a GT72 is not possible as far as I know, so in the end this is an issue as big as the one we are facing with Pascal.

 

why dont you email them and ask to help other folks here make a good informed decision ?

i betcha msi consider 980m and laptop 980 different generation.

so the gt72 and gt72S have different generation gpu in their definition.

again i understand your point based on nvidia naming scheme, i understand how this works.

its just msi is talking about their laptop generations not nvidia naming
. so i would not want you guys to get burned, so i am encouraging you to make sure, before you get stuck in an unexpected situation.

 

Not historically.

MSI said the mobile desktop GTX980 wasn't a "new" generation, but instead an extension of Maxwell.

MSI said there wouldn't be an "upgrade" created for the GT80 / GT72 because the desktop mobile GTX980 isn't a new generation GPU architecture.

MSI said Maxwell => Pascal => Volta are the generational upgrades.

 

I'd... be willing to bet a lot of money on this.

 

in effect you are betting on this, if you are delaying upgrade solely because of volta expectation.

my advice is to check with msi..but you are free to make a blind bet..its a free country

 

Not sure if you are trolling:

MSI don't make the cores, so not their place to call generations.

Nvidia class generations based upon architecture:

Fermi
Kepler
Maxwell
Pascal
Volta

If you are happy with your solution, why are you posting here?

 

He is not trolling (I think), he is just explaining MSI mindset... highly questionable but he might be right: they think that they can define the generation of GPU how they want.

 

MSI don't make GPU's, so cannot claim the generations. This is quite straightforwards. Generations are based upon architecture.

 

I totally agree and if MSI really wants to play this card, they will lose for sure. I'm just saying that we can expect this BS from MSI...

 

It's bollocks because if they had provided MXM upgrades we would have kept or sold our existing GPU's (or even they could have been dead and we needed to replace it).

Still waiting for an acceptable solution from MSI.

 

Pretty sure MSI did say 980 was not a generation, as they specifically did not offer any upgrade kits for this, and remained as special editions for specific models. More over a new generation means multiple products, not a single top product.

 

i am not trolling- at least not trying to. its pretty simple. i am trying to make sure lots of people see the EXACT language sent by msi, and not language i make up. this is why i pasted the exact email, and not my own summary of that email. this way everyone can read it for themselves and whatever questions they have can be sent to MSI direct. Instead you guys made some assumptions and wrote them as fact, which they are not.


i pasted the email from msi and i read the msi email several times. maybe the image does not show up in thread again so you guys could not read their language, but you can always click the imgur link and zoom in to read it

the language they use exactly is: "*You may opt out for this this generation upgrade and go with 2nd generation upgrade (TBC). *"
Kevin then wrote " just had another concern pop in my head. If MSI is giving the option to hold out until Volta, will they give our laptops the same valuation then, as they are now?"

my point is msi is not giving option to hold out till volta. they could have written "volta" but they did not write volta. they wrote "2nd Generation upgrade (TBC)"

TBC usually means "To be confirmed". that does not mean they are committed to that upgrade being volta. if they were committed to volta they could have used other language.

I felt, and still feel Kevins message was misleading to some readers , and i gave an example of how things could end up on a different path from volta. just one example. there are others paths as well that can end up in the offer for 2nd gen not containing volta.

i understand the nvidia roadmap names, architecture names and chip designations, and so does msi. so it seems MSI is specifically choosing language to Not commit this as a Volta upgrade, while Kevins comments makes it sound like Volta is a slam dunk.

i also dont believe the Cost will be the same for that next generation as Kevin alluded to. this is why that "TBC" is in the email.

so i encouraged you guys to check this information with MSI before making it sound like volta is a slam dunk. There are many users reading this forum, some may not be as savvy as you and they may not be able to find the email-screenshot to read msi's language for themselves, , so i feel its bad practice to malign what msi is saying which could mislead those folks.

i am simply relaying msi's exact words, and you guys are twisting words imho.

here is the exact text from msi in that post a few pages back for those that missed it:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...rade-discussion.795236/page-267#post-10382040

 

I definitely get what you're saying, it just doesn't make sense with the information we have on hand.

MSI has never indicated that they are referencing any other terminology, outside of Nvidia's named GPU generations.

 

while i get that, and i personally think chances of volta are 70%, untill its released.... nvidia can change things to fit their needs. and if they think a tweaked pascal is better for next gen mobile, we will get tweaked pascal.
the same sites that are leaking nvidia volta roadmaps and predicting future products are far from 100% accurate. some of those same sites (cough wccftech) predicted separate mobile chips and specs for the 10x0 series of nvidia gpu, months in advance and they got that wrong. they predicted different chip, different ram and they were wrong.

i am not suggesting its even msi necessarily conspiring against users, its just msi got burnt by nvidia recently, so they are keeping options open, in case nvidia does something unexpected.
so i think msi specifically used ambiguous language to avoid upsetting users in such a scenario. better to say "TBC" and then wait for nvidia to release what they are gona release, rather than say volta, and have to eat crow if nvidia changes roadmap (as they have changed it before).

 

Thanks.

Back to topic now?

 

yeah back to topic- my billing info was sent to msi yesterday, and i was billed the cost of the new laptop already ( i chose cross-shipping option so this is expected) so lets see how long it takes them to execute.

 

why is nobody talking about the 1070 that booted inside that Alienware laptop.

We get it. The trade-in program is stupid. Now, there isn't much we can do to change that anyway. Ranting on this forum won't help that's for sure.

Why aren't we focusing on hard mod news? I bet everyone here would kill for a 1070 upgrade, even if it was a mod without an official kit. MSI is stupid, but until the lawsuit results are in, they aren't going to move an inch. 1070 upgrades are physically possible hardware wise, we just need to wait until it's fleshed out, like the 980m upgrades for the msi gt70.

Right now, I feel like everyone is just making this forum topic uselessly long. I read all posts, and this discussion has been going in circles for days. It's just a huge waste of time.