GT72/GT72S and GT80/GT80S Owners GPU Upgrade Discussion

Spending way too much time F5-ing my email inbox.

MSI pls

 

Looks like an excellent deal to me. For some though they want what was originally offered and advertised and I can't blame them. Still that laptop is a beauty. Enjoy!

 

That didn't stop the Clevo-nypmh's from flitting around for months telling us how wonderful their Clevo P870DM was gonna be future proof with MXM GPU upgrades and CPU changeability.

I haven't heard much from them after the situation finally sunk in, but even after the Clevo announcement there would be no backward compatibility for the Pascal MXM GPU's to the P870DM1 the little Clevo-nymph's were still buzzing in our ears.

So even though not promised, every single Clevo owner believed their Maxwell MXM GPU laptops would be upgradeable to Pascal.

So MSI has 1-up'd Clevo, and provided an upgrade path from Maxwell MXM GPU'd laptops to the new Pascal/Volta MXM GPU laptops.

Not quite as expected, but "better than Clevo".

 

I don't understand how they are going back and forth emailing 2 users and nobody else has heard a peep from them. boggles my mind.

 

Depends on your point of view

MSI USA trade-in team are only a small team of people trying to handle upgrade requests, so they can't possibly answer everyone's initial questions directly.

They are quite rightly concerned with their emails getting out, as they don't want to get bogged down in answering questions all day, as that will affect negatively their primary goal at getting trade-in's handled.

"P.S. You may share the information to anyone. Just don’t share my contact information as I fear people will interrupt my work progress. "

MSI USA trade-in team haven't gotten a full on release of answers through an FAQ, but are on the path to get it out to all of us.

After posting thousands of messages in support of many laptop manufacturers, even though very critical of MSI, I posted many emails, and finally got through and got an answer.

Once that channel was open, I gently pried it open further giving them a way to get out what they did have for answers - their working thoughts as applied to their day to day interactions.

I think MSI USA has interacted with lots of people, but most people are too shy or private to post on an open public forum. As MSI referred to answers given to others as part of their trade-in communications to owners.

Hopefully others will open up and post their experiences, so as to un-boggle your mind

 

Yea so much for their "non bga crap"

 

Kinda long, but reviews features and compares 9 new MSI laptops. 7 with 1060, 1 each with 1070 and 1080, performance comparison starts at 25:30.

MSI Gaming Notebook Overview - How to pick the best for you


All the models shown have the 6700HQ, except for 1 that has a 6820HK, they top out with a GT73VR, no GT83VR was shown (has the 6920HQ). All of them perform about the same CPU wise, with the larger case better cooling models show a slight edge.

The 7 1060's all perform close to the same, the larger cases with better cooling do edge up in performance results a bit.



The 1070 performs 25%-40% better than the best 1060.



The 1080 up to 40%-75% better than the best 1060.

 

hmscott,

At this point, are you satisfied with your trade offers? Which option are you going to be taking (and which model do you currently own)?

 

The trade-in laptop is a model GT80 SLI-263, with all stock components. It's been an awesome laptop, and so far none of the available options tickles my fancy quite like this one did at the time I bought it.

At this point I don't know which one of the current models to get, or recommend to get, as I really am not enthused by any particular one, on or off the listed options.

If I had a GT72(S), I would probably jump on a GT73VR 1080 without much more thought.

Since I am upgrading from an SLI laptop, I would like to replace it with another SLI laptop, the 1080 SLI in particular. But, I don't think the GT83VR design is optimized, and in fact I think it has several undesirable "features".

The GT83VR 1080 SLI seems to be just as noisy as the Clevo P870DM3. The 1080 SLI put's out too much heat to have it air cooled without a lot of accompanying fan and air movement noise.

I don't think a 1080 SLI laptop will be "live-able" unless it can have a mode where a quiet water-cooled external radiator apparatus like the Asus GX800 has is available for day to day extended use.

And, the GT83VR still has the many years old LG 1080p 18.4" display. A 1080 SLI GPU driven laptop needs a more suitable display technology to balance the design.

I think I would prefer a really good color range 3-4k HDR10 display with a 75hz-100hz refresh, and screen technology fast enough to game at 75fps-100fps on 4k.

I would think such a display on a GTX 1080 SLI laptop would be mandatory to consider it an optimized balanced design.

Then there is the heavy mass of cable and boxes of the 2 x 330w PSU required for the GT83VR 1080 SLI. We don't even have a choice of running with a single 330w PSU for reduced performance to make mobile portable use more manageable.

I've already had a GT80 form factor laptop. It's not that I wouldn't like it again, it's just that I would prefer the "next generation" re-imagining of it that has optimized the cooling, noise under gaming performance, a single PSU, and a properly matched display.

Given the other options, the GT73VR single 1080 seems to be the best designed "system", all the parts fit the end goal of matching performance between the GPU, CPU, and display (120hz 3k).

Otherwise, I'd have to drop down to a single 1070 in a slim laptop, like the GT62 - but I would prefer at least a 17.3" laptop, so really the GT73VR is the only choice for me out of all the available options.

Not that I wouldn't enjoy a GT73VR 1070 SLI, but I really don't want to be stuck carrying around the mess of cables and boxes required to support 2 x 230w power supplies.

MSI needs to take on the challenge of supplying a single lightweight self cooled 500w and 700w power supply. Allowing for portable operation from a single lightweight PSU.

All that leads up to my joy at hearing from MSI that they will allow us to wait for the 2nd generation GPU series to arrive before taking advantage of the "trade-in" upgrade option. We don't need to commit to a trade-in decision right away.

It's not that I don't think the Pascal options aren't awesome, it's just that with all the hoopla leading up to the trade-in, it's nice to consider waiting a bit.

How about you?

 

for me is really more simple. xD im with gt72 980m and want a GT73VR 1070 or 1080. but with my g72 specs. 500ssd m.2 4*128 and my 32 GB ram. Also would like to upgrade for a 120mhz 5ms screen from my 1080 60hz. i really dont think the 4k version worth the value. i prefer the 120mhz. and going for a 4k screen to drecrease my fps no ty

 

Don't undermine the effect of the "2 gen upgrade program"! It was a MAJOR selling point for quite a few people. I'm not defending clevo in no way, I just want things clear. Do you see a topic like this in clevo's forum? No, because it wasn't a HUGE part of their advertisement. Also a 1070 CAN be made in standard MXM-B form. It's just that msi hoped to dodge the bullet! If it wasn't for this thread, this exchange program wouldn't have happened and now people are making it look like msi is doing you a favor! No you are doing them a favor for letting them off the hook with this exchange program. The advertising was for 2 gens of GPU upgrades! Don't mind me though, not an owner and would never be, just bringing some clarification.

 

I was going to buy an Asus, the Upgradability and future graphics upgrades were the literally selling points that changed my mind.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

Exactly the same story for me, and the MSI was more expensive, and the Asus G751 had an IPS screen lacking on the MSI at this time... Whish I had saved my money !

 

Tell MSI what you want, and they will work with you to do what they can do.

[email protected]

Telling us is good to get it worked out in your head, but we can't actually make it happen for you

 

MSI is offering 2 generations of Trade-in's as Upgrades to new Generation GPU's - read the Answers from MSI posted by me recently - and also added to the #1 post in this thread.

Spoiler

2) How long do we have to take advantage of the trade-in, many of us can't spend that much money on such short notice.

"No time limit or final date for the trade-in was included in the offer letter. I was expecting to be able to pick my time to upgrade over the next 2 years.

There is no deadline for the applicant to decide to accept or decline the trade for the 1st generation GPU upgrade.

Applicant may opt out of the 1st gen GPU and wait for the 2nd Generation GPU upgrade."

" If you decide to opt in for the 1st gen upgrade, you will still be able to upgrade for 2nd gen.

Only users that previous purchase GT70(s)/GT80(s) with 9xx series will be qualify.

To be honest, we’re not sure what NVIDIA have up in their sleeves, but as far as we know the 2nd gen gpu that we are honoring will be 11xx series.

We do not know if NVIDIA will consider 11xx series as Volta or whatever name they come out with.

We do not know what the next gen GPU price will be, it may be similar, higher, or lower to this generations. Again, it’s up to NVIDIA."

There is indeed a thread complaining about Clevo orphaning the P870DM without a path to upgrade their Maxwell MXM GPU's to Pascal MXM GPU's:

Anyone else disappointed?
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/anyone-else-disappointed.795318/

There is no Clevo thread like this one because Clevo completely left the P870DM owners high and dry, no thread for interacting with Clevo is possible because it was an implied promise, not a stated one.

MSI explicitly offered GPU upgrades, and is standing behind that promise, for 2 generations of GPU upgrades.

It took MSI a while to work it out, but I think they are working diligently to stand by their word, and I think that's awesome.

 

I think you are mistaking, 'one or the other generation', for 'two generations'.

 

No, I guess you didn't read or interpret the quotes from MSI completely.

Spoiler

2) How long do we have to take advantage of the trade-in, many of us can't spend that much money on such short notice.

"No time limit or final date for the trade-in was included in the offer letter. I was expecting to be able to pick my time to upgrade over the next 2 years.

There is no deadline for the applicant to decide to accept or decline the trade for the 1st generation GPU upgrade.

Applicant may opt out of the 1st gen GPU and wait for the 2nd Generation GPU upgrade."

" If you decide to opt in for the 1st gen upgrade, you will still be able to upgrade for 2nd gen.

Only users that previous purchase GT70(s)/GT80(s) with 9xx series will be qualify.

To be honest, we’re not sure what NVIDIA have up in their sleeves, but as far as we know the 2nd gen gpu that we are honoring will be 11xx series.

We do not know if NVIDIA will consider 11xx series as Volta or whatever name they come out with.

We do not know what the next gen GPU price will be, it may be similar, higher, or lower to this generations. Again, it’s up to NVIDIA."

You can upgrade now for the 1st generation trade-in, and upgrade that laptop again as a trade-in upon the 2nd generation, or elect to skip the 1st generation trade-in and only take the 2nd generation.

 

Oooops, my bad Scott.

 

as far as clevo users not complaining- you must not read the clevo forum on this board- go read the dm3 thread. the complaints for not being able to update their old clevo go for about 300 pages, before those folks finally move on to discussing the new clevo models and how the new ones are too loud and too power hungry and need undervolting.

as far as the gtx 1080- this thing is a thermal beast. my 980m was silent under load, this 1080 is a hairdryer. that said- this hairdryer is about 3-4 times faster than the 980m at 3440*1440. so 3-4 times performance for roughly 2x the noise. I think the old saying "2 steps forward, 1 step back" applies here. the upside is you can overclock this thing alot since noise is thru the roof already at stock, so whats a few more decibels. the cpu fans is pretty much idle even overclocked, the gpu fan makes all the noise.

as far as being able to make something "standard mxm" , yes they can make a card that meets physical proportion, but this is irrelevant when talking about performance....if you cant feed it enough juice (usually amps are more relevant than watts) from your old motherboard its a mute point. the card would not perform the same as properly power fed card. 1070 is 10-20% more power hungry than 980m according to a couple of websites (notebookcheck), so even if they made the card realistically only the 980 Laptop users would have a chance to get the most out of it. this is one of the issues that alienware modder is having who put in a msi 1070n into his alienware with 330 watt brick..he cant get his 1070 stable at stock clocks, so he is looking for custom vbios to reduce mhz/power of his vid card to get it stable under load so it can run something other than benchmarks for 30 seconds at a time...

Props to @hmscott for starting this thread and props to all who dug around the web to gather info.

 

@hmscott So if i am reading this correctly from the statement you quoted, You can do an upgrade via trade in program for 1st gen upgrade and then have to do the very same thing again for the second? Or am i completely off the mark here. If my Aim is true on this i will be defo not bothing with MSI again as that will mean more money again when volta comes out doing the same trade in.

All i have ever asked off MSI is a GTX1060, I asked this many times in the e-mails to MSI GTX1060 for 1080p gaming would be perfectly fine for me and it would be a major jump from the GTX970m i have now. GTX1070 and GTX1080 seem OverKill. If the GTX1070 would of worked in the GT72 (Which i am sure it would with some fine tuning on the EC/Firmware side) i would of got it instead of the GTX1060.

This whole Trade in, is just to me pointless as that means i would need to buy a new Windows 10 Pro each time i traded in and other software that is tied to the hardware of the first activated computer used. They promised 2 Upgrades via a MXM Slot in-design they should be made to sort it and make it work with our current system after all as i have stated time and time again. Nvidia supplies the Silicon MSI RnD Team makes the MXM Modules and in my eyes MSI RnD team are being lazy. I was even prepared to accept an upgradable TB3 MXM caddy system (I gave them that idea) I bet they haven't even bothered to look into that either.

 

I find it hard to believe that thousands of people know about this.

 

Especially since they barely advertised that they were offering a trade-in for the upgrade issue, being that this website is basically the only place you can find information on it besides the MSI discussion groups. They essentially tried to minimize the amount of people taking advantage of this by barely putting any information out on it. If I wasn't on this website, I wouldn't have known about it. Personally, I find the customer service issue on this kind of scummy in that they don't really care about their customers that have issues with it, they are only trying to minimize damage to their reputation and save as much money as possible.

 

ABOUT MSI GAMING
As a world leading gaming brand, MSI's aim is to become the most trusted name in gaming and eSports. We stand by our principles of breakthroughs in design, the pursuit of excellence, and technological innovation as we have continued to raise the bar for ourselves and have accomplished a great deal of pioneering work in the industry. - https://uk.msi.com/news/pr/643

I lolled.

 

Same here. This is a classic example of MSI's admin team trying to pull a Six Sigma. Problem is that we NOTICE what is going on and dont like it.

 

There is no way they've reached out to lots of other users. The only way other users found out about this trade in was from filling out the form that was posted here. This whole damn thing is shady.

 

Just for you two I took out the "thousands".

IDK how many have requested a trade in, I was only trying to point out they are few and the requests are "many" more than a few.

Please keep emailing MSI [email protected] asking for your questions to be answered, and ask for MSI to post an FAQ that includes questions already answered.

We are finally seeing some movement from MSI, don't give up now.

 

Notice what?

 

It was a reference to the Six Sigma mentality. Its a corporate deal I refer to as legal theft, basically shrink the volume of product but make packaging to where, hopefully, the consumer does not realize they have been slighted. Charge same price for less product, thats the nutshell of Six Sigma or make a promise and pray the consumer doesnt come looking for what they have been promised. Admins and managers love Six sigma so much because they get a percentage of what they take from you.

 

Im generalizing too widely, it was a great philosophy for businesses like GE and other large companies producing products on a very wide scale; however, its has largely been perverted when used in other scopes and aspects.

 

Yeah, I know what Six Sigma is supposed to be, and it's not as you described it, what you described isn't even in the same realm of reality

" Six Sigma is a disciplined, data-driven approach and methodology for eliminating defects (driving toward sixstandard deviations between the mean and the nearest specification limit) in any process – from manufacturing to transactional and from product to service.Mar 13, 2012"
https://www.isixsigma.com/new-to-six-sigma/getting-started/what-six-sigma/

I was asking what it is about the trade-in that MSI is doing that you don't like. Be sure and tell them: [email protected]

 

I know we are going off topic with Six Sigma, it is great for production and such but can also be abused in some instances. I have been a director in healthcare afew times and noticed "For-profit" facilities will abuse the "lean" aspect as it helps their bonus schedule. Also, alot of said data can easily be manipulated to say whatever you want it to say, thats a large part of their smoke and mirrors. Example, its been argued to death how many beds you should assign to a nurse in regards to safety and productivity. You can save money and get a better bonus by giving a nurse more beds but at the same time you increase the risk margin by over working the nurse. My magic number was 3 to 4 beds per nurse while my six sigma boss wanted 6 to 8. They would then argue with me over what ward and level of attention was needed. I quickly shut them up, "Would you want your mothers nurse to have 4 or 8 beds" I got my way and nurses had 3 beds each. Every single productivity number went up except our bonuses... which were still nice might i add.

My reference here is how MSI is not only dragging their heels but also seem to want to keep this on a serious down low instead of owning up and making it a smooth process. Just my perspective.

 

It's clear MSI didn't know what to do when Pascal release day arrived and we all expected MSI to announce or indicate they would provide the promised 2 generations of GPU upgrades.

It's been a long struggle for MSI to come to terms with how to provide the upgrades, and how to make it work for all their regions.

There's a lot of stumbling around being repeated in about the same sequence in each region, with some jumping some levels, and others getting stuck in early stages.

I think MSI has come to the point where they heard us, took what they had and made it fit what we requested, getting us what they originally promised.

It's taken a long time to get to the point where they are comfortable with handling what requests they have, IDK how long it will take for MSI to feel like they can announce this program via their websites for everyone, but MSI needs to get there.

Given the changes required to fully support the Pascal Power / Thermal requirements, replacing components besides the GPU, adding on others, and then being able to certify the final construction as being safe and supportable, MSI took the right path by providing trade-in's instead.

With all the changes required, the cost of an Upgrade would be far more than just the MXM GPU. The cost of the labor would have been too high as well.

By giving us a newly designed and implemented Pascal laptop in exchange for our Maxwell laptop, MSI streamlined the solution.

It's too bad someone at MSI didn't raise a red flag earlier and met this challenge head on as soon as it was obvious a simple MXM GPU swap wasn't going to work. But, maybe they did, and this is how long it took to react and provide the solution.

At least we are here now, people can trade-in their laptop for a new Pascal laptop

 

MSI, you need to make your "answers" I have been relaying "official" by posting them yourselves - as the eblast Answers FAQ, or whatever you want to call it.

I don't mind helping out, but I can't take responsibility for your answers long term, please post them officially.

@MSI Myco @snallygaster @MSI Natalie @MSIGeno

Edit: Also emailed to [email protected]

 

This two gens trade-in is nice, but still not the thing. You see, there are markets where msi is nowhere to be seen and people imported them on this very promise. What about them?

I never said that clevo owners are happy, but no BBB and mail bombarding was set either. I literary said "Do you see a topic like this in clevo's forum?". There is similar, but not the same. I'm VERY frustated on the direction they took as well, but there were no false promises. Also there are still rumors that we might see some MXM-Bs after all, even though they weren't promised. We shall see. By the way the new clevo modules can accommodate HBM chips (waiting for official confirmation on it), but the msi modules would need another redesign, unless these chips shrink to the size of the current ones, which is unlikely.

I do read, I didn't say "not complaining" (check above) and yes I'm aware how the DM2/3 are doing.

Not only the 1080, the entire 10 series, but that's due to the lack of binning that was done before for mobile chips. Now they just use what they do on desktops and slap castrated vBIOS with lower clocks and tighter power restrictions.

Well the "standard mxm" has two sides, one being the physical form and properties of the MXM board, the other - the motherboard. By standard it has to supply power delivery up to 10A, which means - 19.5V (your average laptop design) * 10A (this is a CONSTANT, but a lot of companies cut corners right here) = 195W. So if the MoBo is designed by standard it should be able to handle it. Granted this is peak power, and not continuous load, but you can get away with 130~150W, probably more, but it gets dangerous and a lot of fine tune. Alienware is famous for castrating power delivery to the MXMs and the ones that do fine are exceptions, instead of a rule.

I liked this post since the very first time I saw it, but again MAJOR kudos to @hmscott for doing it. I still stand behind my words that if it wasn't for this post, there would NOT have been any reaction from msi.

Exactly! Not to mention the environmental impact. I'm not a radical three-huger, but I HATE excessive waste. Why should you throw a perfectly working unit, when you just need a new GPU? That's how I see the trade-in program.

 

You have been kind enough to to THEIR job, and yet MSI still didn't gave any proper consolidated reply, MSI didn't published any statement on their website or through official channels, NOTHING ! Why the hell to we have to do all the job even though WE got screwed by THEM ?
The fact that they are not communicating officially on this might be sufficient to sue them in some countries...

 

I thought they switched to the Samsung truelife display on the gt80s? Did they switch back?

 

I'm stuck as well between the nicer screen and lower performance overall

And the new GT80 with overpriced upgrades

I will wait as long as I can
Maybe they will offer kabylake?

 

Yes but that doesn't mean we can power or cool it.. Rather pay a SMALL amount extra to have a system designed to better handle the newer gpus

 

Maybe we can ask how many people sent in forms and how many upgraded?

 

It would be nice if someone could ask them for an ETA on the trade offers for the vast majority. I find myself calling into question if they are actually dedicated to the trade-in process in any meaningful way, due to it being an entire month after the last communication with only one or two confirmed offers. It at least appears to me that, given the relative quietness of this trade-in, limiting the overall applications, they have had an abundance of time yet have not capitalized upon it. Do they believe that procrastinating the solution ad-infinitude is the proper way to avoid the hassle of upholding their own trade-in program?

Given the offer was more or less only noted here, is it reasonable to assume they have not been sending out final offers/responses in any appreciable volume? As there would be many more reports of trades going through if there were. Is this something they actually intend to see through?

Is there any contact information I might be able to have, to send my own queries? A month with no further word or notice, even the common courtesy of an email confirm, makes we wish to attempt more avenues of contact.

 

Six standard deviations is crazy large number of deviations... within 3 deviations are like 98% of all products produced

 

They won't answer mine tried MANY times

 

I sent in form but didn't upgrade, was hoping for GTX1060 MXM slot in upgrade.

Sent from my SHIELD Tablet K1 using Tapatalk

 

Maybe we should reach out to nvidia. Maybe they can put some pressure on MSI or help them figure out what needs to be done.. After all they are also partially to blame. And they should have some interest in their customer's well being

 

Has anyone started a petition or a group on G+ or Facebook for the disgruntled MSI Owners? Need some organizing.

 

You missed my follow-up, it's just couple of posts above yours.

You are funny - nGREEDIA are the ones that deserve most of the blame! They don't provide MXM designs for a couple of years now! They did this push for soldered/proprietary everything. What I've pointed-out though is that there are companies that still do standard MXM modules even without reference design. So msi is also to be blamed and rightfully so. You should NOT let parts supplier (what nGREEDIA is) command you how to make/design your products.

 

MSI finally contacted me again with answers to my upgrade. Below you will see a copy of the email. I asked them that I was looking to upgrade to the 1080 model and they outlined the prices to be add. Below you will see their response.
Thank you for your interest in our MSI USA Trade-In-Program, only for US customer. There is no deadline for the trade-in applicants.
Program is for: GT80(s) and GT72(s) with GTX 9xx Series GPU
Trading in for: New GTxxVR Series laptop with GTX10xx Series GPU w/ 2 year Warranty

Due to the *NEW* design of the GTX 10xx Pascal series, the current GT80(s) and GT72(s) laptop will not be able to support a GPU upgrade. The GTX 9xx series are facing limitations of the power and thermal design, which will not be able to convert into GTX 10 series. *Note: Desktop VGA and Laptop VGA are NOT the same.*
Your Laptop
Upgraded Equivalent Unit
Base Cost
Upgrade
GT72 w/970M GT72VR Dominator w/GTX 1060


GT72 w/980M GT72VR Dominator Pro w/GTX 1070


GT72 w/980 GT73VR Titan Pro w/GTX 1080


GT72S w/970M GT72VR Dominator w/1060 $600 GT72VRDominator-033
GT72S w/ 980M GT73VR TITAN w/ 1070 Add $400 for GT73VR TITAN-017
GT72S Tobii GT72VR Tobii w/GTX 1070


GT72S w/ 980 GT73VR Titan Pro w/ 1080 Add $1000 for GT73VR TITAN PRO-003
GT80 w/980(M) GT73VR Titan Pro w/GTX 1080


GT80 w/970M SLI GT83VR Titan Pro w/GTX 1070 SLI


GT80 w/980M SLI GT83VR Titan Pro w/GTX 1070 SLI


GT80 w/980 SLI GT83VR Titan Pro w/GTX 1080 SLI


*You may opt out for this this generation upgrade and go with 2nd generation upgrade (TBC). *

· We only accept payment with Credit Card. Finance option not available.
· Due to concerns of turnaround time, we will use 1-2 business days for inspection once we receive the trade-in unit. Then new unit will be ship via Ground when payment is cleared.
o We can offer an alternative option for you. We can do a Crossover exchange. We will charge full price on your CC for the new laptop and have it shipped to you. When you received the unit, then you can reuse the same box to ship the trade-in laptop to us. Once we finalize the inspection, then we will process a refund with the differences according to the inspection and Upgrade cost.
*Note: Please remember to includes all of the Laptop Original OEM parts. Such as SSD, Ram, Hard drive, cables, etc. Any missing parts will be subject to a full retail price charge. Any OEM defects will not be subject for charge due to warranty coverage.*
*Domestic shipping ONLY, APO/FPO will be acceptable*
· Customer is responsible to ship the Trade-In unit to our Center. MSI will be responsible to pay for the shipping the new units to the Customer.

Ship to:
ATTN: GT Trade In
Reference #: 001
901 Canada Court
City of Industry, CA 91748

 

might be just me but this is a bit hard to follow. Do you have a screen shot or something that we can see the original format?