GT72/GT72S and GT80/GT80S Owners GPU Upgrade Discussion

If the trade in website had a drop down to select the model you currently own, and then gave you current values of your trade against every other model that would not be confusing and it would prevent miscommunication.

This isn't anything new for the industry and is easily handled on a website. They could go one further and also link to this in your MSI customer profile so all owners in the impacted region are notified.

HMSCOTT, are you somehow associated or affiliated with MSI aside from being a customer? I only ask because of some of your past comments, your back and forth emails with MSI, and things like, "Any other questions for MSI USA?". If you do somehow work with them, if you could get them to do a simple webform dropdown to compare prices and models that would be my feedback. Very simple to create and would free up the small trade-in team to focus on specific questions or trades.

 

I'd like to add to this question.

@hmscott Have you been offered a greater discount, free notebook, or any other benefits in kind to draw attention within this thread away from negativity towards MSI? I ask as you have made efforts to derail discussion around the inconsistencies in MSI's statements.

 

No I don't work for MSI, or any other laptop maker.

I don't know about an automated web-site coming along any time soon, their team is small and focused on handling the actual trade-in's. I don't think I should ask this one of them, as I know the answer. If you feel strongly about it, be sure and mention it as a suggestion to them for future implementation.

I asked again for MSI USA Trade-in Team to gather all the owners questions with their answers into an official output from MSI USA instead of just through me and other owners that post here, but I know they are swamped trying to handle all active trade-ins.

For now I will continue to post MSI USA Trade-in Team answers they want shared and add them to the 1st post.

 

You didn't answer my question. Please do.

Also, please forward any correspondence from MSI in regards to the second upgrade to slicker[at]hackermail[dot]com this is for my cousin in the USA. Thanks.

 

Thanks @hmscott. I was actually hoping you were somehow employed by them through a partner channel or something, as it would make getting the website piece easier to get implemented. If I ever get some free time and we can get a list of all of the other GT models, I might put together something - even an excel spreadsheet with links to the various models or something.

 

If you put together a list of all MSI USA models with MSRP, and maybe a link to the model specific product page - Specification page is good, that would be something I could send them to ask if it is complete or if there are missing models, and then post in the #1 post to help other owners.

 

Can anyone think of a reason that MSI is quoting MSRP, when we are not purchasing from a retailer?

In the UK I can only find one retailer selling at MSRP, all of the others are well below. Some more than 10% below.

So what would we be getting in exchange for that 10% that MSI would never normally see?

 

MSI is definitely making money on this trade-in program for the GPU issue, no doubt in my mind. Now I know that they should be able to, being that they are a company, but I don't look at this as them doing a favor for its customers based on a marketing statement that turned out to be false and therefore misleading. They simply found a way to appease some while making more money off of them...

 

Hi

After receiving my offer from MSI earlier today, that was classed as a 'goodwill gesture', I contacted trading standards, also known as the Citizens Advice Bureau, as I felt that the offer was unacceptable, the response that I gotback from the CAB was that:

Your contract is with the retailer and not MSI.

According to trading standards if the laptop is less than 6 months old you will be entitled to a full refund from the retailer as it would be classified as faulty, the fault being that MSI are unable to fulfil their advertised promise of being able to upgrade the GPU's on the laptops..

It is then the retailers responsibility to negotiate with the manufacturer, MSI in this case, not our repsonsibility.

I did send an email to MSI asking if it was possible to have a full refund at the beginning of September, just inside the 6 months cut off point, I am unsure as to whether or not the retailer I bought from will accept an email asking for a full refund that was sent to MSI instead of them but I shall ask.

The other points were that if the laptop is over 6 months old you can still get a refund but the retailer does not have to give the full amount, any reduction though has to be fair and reasonable.

If you are unhappy with the offer from the retailer then you can seek other forms of compensation/replacement.

There was though a change in the law two years ago, so if you bought your laptop more than two years ago you will be offered slightly different ways of being compensated, you will need to contact CAB direct to confirm.

Conspiracy theory, MSI UK deliberately waited until now so that it would prove more difficult if not impossible to get a full refund from all UK customers who bought a laptop on their advertisement saying that you could upgrade the MXM GPU from 9xxm series to the next generation, just do the maths, 100 sales in 6 months, I do not know if this realistic, at £1500 each is £150,000, I suspect actual sales to be higher but it gives an indication of the size of the hit MSI would have to take.

MiSJAH
There is absolutley no reason for MSI to be charging us full retail for these items.
Also on the list there are no GT73VR laptops with a 1070 GPU, unless you want to go SLI
Nor do they take into consideration the return of the original GPU that we could have either used ourselves or sold on.

Lastly the retailer I bought from is still advertising a couple of GT72S laptops as being MXM upgradeable.

 

I wonder if there is a similar claim that could be made in the U.S. -- However, with my purchase date being Feb 2015, I'm a bit out of the scope of those '6-months'.

Either way.. I would be very careful about stating certain loosely strung together theories based on a few facts.. I hazard to claim to know the intent of anyone (individuals or company leadership), particularly when those claims can hold some forms of hefty legal implications.. Given that the delay between the initial U.S. program announcement (which btw, being relegated to mainly forum posts and having never received an official e-mail is BS in itself..) was only a couple months, I'm doubtful it was intended.. This has all the hallmarks of a tiered staged process..

That being said, the MSRP note is valid.. Looking at Amazon and NewEgg I could easily shave off $300 from some of these stated prices.. Not to mention my reseller had discounts when I went through them for my original GT80..

Question for others, does anyone know for certain what they're doing with our returned hardware?

 

I am not sure what, if any, legal implications I am opening myself up to, I was just pointing out that by advertising the MXM upgrade and then not being able to deliver on that promise then under UK Law the laptops are considered faulty and that you have 6 months to return faulty goods.

I did say that it was only a theory I have no proof of what MSI did during this timeframe but another angle to consider, how long does it take to design and release a new laptop?

One that has to have additional power redesigned, cooling and casing?

How long does it take to get a prototype built tested and fully qualified in order to be able to sell it?

How long does it take to get a production line up and running?

The above is not done overnight.

MSI, I suspect had been working hard to try and find a solution so that the nVidia desktop cards could be fitted to those laptops fitted with the 9x0m GPU's but I also suspect that they new that they could not resolve this problem for sometime before notifying us of the problem. Indded if it were not for this forum highlighting this issue and bringing it to the attention of MSI I am sure nothing would have happened or it would have taken even longer for MSI to make an offer.

Again the above is only my opinion as we have had very little information from MSI on this whole thing, if they were to show evidence to the contrary, i.e. not delaying and delaying the trade in offer for several months, then of course I would apologies unreservedly, however when this latest offering from MSI UK is so similar to the previous one, why did it take them so many months to reproduce it?

There was also the fact that MSI just up until recently did not have any form of notification of this trade in on their website.

A question to anyone with a laptop more than 2 years old as I had the following statement in the email detailing the trade in:

2. Your invoice date is 04/04/2016, we can accept the machine as long as it’s within 2years warranty.

Have you had a positive repsonse from MSI allowing you to partake in the trade in program?

I ought to add that I am being offered £1259 for my GT72S 6QE.

 

Ok lets try to get on the issues first:

1) We won't be splitting the thread for the time being, because we feel there is not enough users for the split itself to be of actual use. What I mean is the following: While I do believe that specific threads for specific owners are a great idea in general (example, GT73 owners thread) we can't do so here because the user base is very fragmented and composed of many regions. Each individual region has a very small representation, which would make the whole splitting a bad idea, as everything would be completely segmented. We would rather keep the on going thread as a hub for users to discuss even if their region has entirely different rules/program. Users are better off here sharing their ideas/opinions and experiences here.

2) Most of the interaction here with MSI will be with MSI USA and should be considered as such. Reps here can easily provide your information to the appropiate branch if you need/want to, regarding the upgrade program, but MSI USA is not handling themselves the other region's program/agenda for this.

3) The USA team handling the MSI Trade program, is completely different than the US MSI Representatives here, so in that regard, keep that in mind if you have specific questions of the program (if you PM or need specific info from topics here).

Now, lets get some points that need to be kept in mind:

The MSI Upgrade kits are not an alternative, won't happen, couldn't happen and MSI has stated that these are not an option, so they are instead offering the program itself to users. This has implications that cannot be ignored nor pretend they don't apply, and impact the value of your laptop.

The following points are regardless of the Trade up program.

1) Regardless of the upgrade kit lack of existence, our current laptop value tremendously decreased by the existance of a superior pascal model, not only by MSI, but by virtually every other vendor. People complaining about the value of your machine, have to remember that, for example, a top of the line GT72S with a dekstop 980 (regardless of its initial value, probably 2.5k?) is now fighting vs 1100-1300dlrs machines on the market. This is regardless of MSI. And this applies to every single pre-pascal model, vs current market. (obviously older models like my GT80 are in an even worse position, 2 gens older CPU/chipset among other things). My GT80 with original 3400dlrs price, is matched by a 1700dlrs machine in performance.

2) Even if upgrade kits were available, the overall value of your laptop is less than a new laptop sporting a new GPU. Following the previous example, upgrading your exact same top of the line GT72S with 980 desktop, to a new 1070, would be valued LESS at the market compared to an average 1070 new laptop by virtue of being used. Best case scenario, your upgraded laptop would have to battle now in value versus new machines sporting the same GPU starting between 1600 onwards.

3) MSI can sell their own manufactured machines at any cost they want when offered directly. They are not bound to a price other than what their own manufactured value is to them. It doesn't even matter what hardware they sport (Look at apple and razer). They choose the price of their models. In reality though, it would be bad practice to sell under MSRP because they would affect their own partners and distribution network (For example, nvidia's own cards, and how their higher price affected MSRP of all other cards).

4) While MSI said that the cost of the upgrade would be the same as if you only upgraded the GPU, is probably something they should do away in their email because it only applies to specific models, and that's why it gathers such a reaction. Instead, MSI should say that they are taking into account a value they considered for their machine (if possible, how much but it is up to them to determine) and the cost to the direct/desired model.

People want after market MSRP value of their laptops being considered, while under MSRP value for new machines for direct distribution. Obviously we all want the best deal possible, but this does not mean that it will happen. Sure you can see a best buy selling an old Titan for say, 2.5k. That doesn't mean that's the actual value of the laptop right now, and if people buy it at that price they either agreed to the value, or did not look up at other alternatives.

The MSI Trade in program is the current offered alternative. It is completely understandable and valid if you do not want to participate on the program because it is not what you wanted/needed. But right now it is the only alternative offered by MSI. You should, and are encouraged, to evaluate other means you find regarding this, including privately selling your machine to your own value, and get a new machine. Or simply keep your machine if it's working great for you etc.

As for a global program: Each region and market has different rules and laws that apply. The program offered won't be the same on each region. It would be awesome if globally everything would be standard but this is not how the market works. Sadly, some markets have to sell at even higher prices, so they are at a disadvantage from the get go.

Ignoring everything: As an user, you are encouraged to pursue what is best for you. If you consider the program works for you, go ahead. If you consider it doesn't, then don't take advantage of it. The idea is to find the best possible solution to you. And here in the forums, we will try to help in any way we can.

 

You? None. I'm saying if the company did this, and to claim it's possible this is what they were doing, it's a serious thing. Basically, it's saying 'theoretically they could be committing criminal activity', sure, but why bother stating that without evidence for it? I just dislike this sort of 'fear mongering' so I'm very skeptical of even putting forth the ideas in an area where people are already a bit on edge.. That's all.

It probably takes quite a bit of time, and it probably takes them quite a few iterations of R&D with them attempting to make it work before they call it quits and decide to go down alternative paths.. However, ALL that time spent would not be done with transparency, they wouldn't wish to introduce a problem with no clear resolution or plan to the public..

My personal issue is that they have made announcements on (only recently) websites, forums, and otherwise.. but I have not seen a single piece of personal mail or a personal notification of any kind despite having my product registered with them with all current information (phone, e-mail, mailing address).. That to me is a bit poor etiquette on them, but I'll give them the benefit of a doubt that they'll be addressing it in these ways once they find a system that works better than the current one they have in place..

But assume I didn't go searching for an MxM card the past couple weeks while having my curiosity piqued.. Assume I went along unknowing, under the impression I would still have the ability to get one of these promised cards/upgrades in the future to see my 'window' (the current one being end of December) lost? I would be EXCEPTIONALLY pissed off at them for that. -- I see some claims they will be extending it 'indefinitely' but I don't see those updates made to the existing forms or anything official stating that..

Ugh, this is SO problematic in so many ways..

You're the one making a positive claim (i.e. you have the burden of proof) or suggesting or postulating the occurrence of some form of illegal or egregious activity done by or on behalf of MSI.. You're the one who has to prove that beyond reasonable doubt.. MSI doesn't need to show 'evidence to the contrary' of a dubious fabricated theory-claim.. And to presume you can, given a few dates to suggest general 'slowness' by the program, when it looks like they are making a concerted effort to 'try', seems like a very weak argument to me.. I would recommend putting that idea out of your head and avoid that silliness outright.

Bash them all you want for their mistakes, point at what we KNOW and ask them to do better, but be careful treading into that 'conspiracy theory' territory..

I haven't heard anything back, but I'm still within the 'two years'.. I'm sure I will keep the forum posted as things develop.. Given I'm now very invested.

 

ryzeki, I agree with a lot of what you say however in the UK we have different laws and our contract is with the supplier, not with the manufacturer, I waited to hear what MSI offered and was disappointed by their offer.

By waiting until now it means that it is unlikely I'll be able to get a full refund, (although at the very least it should be more than what MSI have offered), if I had contacted the retailer I bought it from instead of MSI it is likely that I would have had a case for a full refund, I still have but it is far weaker.

Other options aside from a full refund include replacement of a similar product that has the same functions/performance or having a partial refund, which would be based on the premium payed for having bought an item because of a promised feature and that feature now lacking.

It does not come close to the costs of offering a GPU only upgrade, why is there such a big difference in pricing between the UK and US trade ins? an MXM GPU card in a US laptop is completely transferable to the same UK laptop.

Surely this thread should be about trying to get the best possible outcome for those people that bought MSI laptops with the GTX 9x0(m) GPU's afterall it is this group of the population that is suffering because of MSI's false advertising,and if that makes people aware of other routes that they can go down other than the MSI upgrade path then surely there is no problem with this?

 

The atmospheric loss in value plaguing the old GT72/GT80 laptops is due to the lack of upgradability. However they were designed and billed at a premium price based on that future-proofing. Worse yet, they were marketed as such. I might get $2200 for my GT80, but that might have been $2600 had this laptop held true to its future-proofing claims. I look at this much the same as an automobile diminished value claim. Why am I absorbing that loss as the customer?

I also feel that MSI should be providing the replacements at Manufacturer cost. There should be no profit margin on a design flaw. If they assess a value of $2100 to a GT80 and charge MSRP - there is a profit.

For current model valuation, it would be nice if the FULL purchase price was rolled forward into the trade-in program. They have these numbers, as they are on the receipts we've registered with MSI.

We could also take this another route... With these devices still under full warranty, and given the fact the devices are defective and do not adhere to the 2 generations of future GPU upgrades, couldn't they also be recalled? If my current GT80 died due to a catastrophic failure, what would MSI issue me at no cost if they were not able to repair my device?

 

Right, those are the facts of the matter.

However, speaking from the perspective of the promised feature of 'upgrade-ability' is the rub..

The value of the system was in some ways dependent on that functionality. While the other components do diminish given new technology, the GPU's are the quintessential main factor here. If I had the option to purchase an upgrade vs purchasing and selling my laptop, you best bet that I'd be buying new GPU's..

The 'new' and 'top of the line' titles tacked on to the new hardware package they're offering costs 'us' money outright.. which does make this deal a bit of a raw one.. I can see why some would be outright unimpressed by what MSI is offering, but hell, I'd be lying if I said I didn't like 'any' of the new features..

I wouldn't call it 'after market', but I 'would' want to barter at a reseller value.. Obviously, a bit of a personal request.. it would be nice.. But you're right, I can't necessarily expect them to do that.. If they're going to go through with this trade program and push it out in it's integrity to the rest of the world, they may as well stick to a set numerical value that is consistent to avoid the problem of each individual exchange breaking their own deal because some reseller has the laptop valued '$X amount' cheaper this week and '$Y amount' some other.

Absolutely.. Not just in e-mails, but on any official mention of this plan.. It's plainly confusing if not simply untrue..

 

I don't understand your first section, I certainly was not fear mongering I was just pointing out the situation with UK Law.

The first part of the R&D would be done in software using cad models based on manufacturer data, heat profiling, thermal dissipation, power requirements and cooling techniques would all have been looked at first before they would have even created a physical prototype/mockup.

They would have known quite soon after the release of the GTX 10x0 series of GPU's the practicality of being able to use these same cards in GT72 or GT82 laptops.

Evidence to the contrary? Why are they being so secretive then? Why has MSI UK taken so long to offer a new deal for those in the UK when it is practically the same as the first? There is absolutely no reason to do so.
If it was completely different, completely remodelled etc. then I can understand this.
Why not make life easier for themselves and copy the US upgrade format? making slight adjustments for exchange rates etc?

Of course I can state that the general program has been slow, or are you telling me that they have sorted this out in a timely manner? Bear in mind that I am looking at this from a UK perspective, not a US perspective where you guys had responses well before we did.

I contacted MSI in early September and did not hear anything until the middle of November when I phoned them up.
As for burden of proof with the evience that we currently have to hand can you say that the only reason for them taking so long to find out that the nVidia GTX10x0 GPU would not be a compatible replacement for the GTX9x0(m) GPU is due to lack of staff in engineering, lack of staff in PR roles lack of staff in other relevant positions, with all this lack of staff i am surprised that they even manage to manufacture anything.

I am happy to discuss why you think it had taken them so long, if you have extra information please let me know it would really be much appreciated, and until we get extra information we can only hypothesis and postulate on the true situation.

Well I am so happy that you are alright and still within the 2 years but what about all the other people? What is the two year cut off date relevant to?
and why have this cut off date?

 

Hi @Markafano can you share the entire email you received please?

The only MSI Rep to post in this thread was Natalie from MSI UK.

Points 1,2, and 3 are irrelevant when point 4 is considered: MSI has publicly stated the cost of the upgrade would be the same as if you only upgraded the GPU, so why are they not providing this? They should do away with it because it is a lie? a GTX 1070 produced by MSI can be purchased for $750 a GTX 970M would sell for at least $200, anyone upgrading to a GT73VR with matched CPU/RAM/SSDs should only be paying ~$550. That's pretty simple math. (The GT72VR is a feature set downgrade and should not be cosidered for the trade-upgrade program.

MSI did not stick to their word on the MXM upgrade so introduced this scam, and yes it's a scam because they are not going to stick to their word with the cost of the upgrade would be the same as if you only upgraded the GPU.

Do we need a further 300 pages of pissed off users trying to get MSI to display some integrity towards their customers?

So what are you saying here, let MSI charge MSRP, when retailers are not, whilst retail are not involved in the trade-upgrade program, purely to gift additional funds to MSI for nothing?

.

This, what are MSI going to do for those that cannot afford the upgrade as the cost is higher than an MXM upgrade?

I disagree about valuing our notebooks.

The cost from 9 series GPU to 10 series should be the same no matter purchase price (I got my GT72 for aroung $1,300, as an open box).

The cost to us all would have been the same if MSI had produced MXM cards, so there should be no difference with the program MSI are presenting as a solution to the problem they caused.

 

I think we need to stop talking about the value of our notebook and be more specific about the value of our GPU's and the GPU's we want to upgrade to.

This thread was started because MSI couldn't stick to their advertised promise.

This time they can.

The cost of the upgrade would be the same as if you only upgraded the GPU.

 

My first section is responding to your claims that they're up to something nefarious.. That idea is also similarly couched in that last piece of sentiment I quoted up above. This is fallacious reasoning.

I'm telling you to not postulate scenarios where MSI is intentionally delaying to either avoid responsibilities or knowingly and maliciously screw consumers.. You're depending on using arguments of incredulity for your basis when your understanding of their particular R&D life-cycle suggests that 'only a new system/remodeled' would be 'an understandable or reasonable excuse' to you..

"Responses well before".. A matter of months? They've stated they will be addressing the UK now, I don't know why you're using these delays as evidence for bolstering your purported insight in knowing their intent.. Maybe it's because I'm used to seeing large scale programs take years to finish for major organizations that I don't find this as unbelievable as you do..

This is also super weird, you wish to discuss things we both know we don't have ANY insight into.. And then you say well since we don't know, "all we can do is postulate"? -- No?.. Why the hell would I just ASSUME that they're doing bad things because it's not working in my/your favor. Need I whip out Hanlon's Razor here? -- Anyway, I think I'm done discussing their 'intents' and 'conspiracy' ideas..

The only relevance I can pull to that is it's the 'limited warranty' time frame.. But I don't see why that should matter because this issue seems worthy of extending beyond it..

 

Hi Markafano,
Thanks for your inquiry.
The Trade-in program in offering now in UK and the deadline of the inquiry will be on 31st Dec.
Basically we will have a discount amount based on the value of your on-hand machine then you will be able to use that discount on the new GTX 10 series GT model you choose.
The value of your laptop will be determined by the SRP at launch and the age of your notebook.
You will be able to use this to trade up to selected MSI Notebooks featuring Nvidia GTX 1060 / GTX 1070 / GTX 1080.
According to the data you provided to us, your discount amount will be £1259 based on 2 evaluations as follows:
1. The original launch price of your on-hand machine GT72S 6GE-046UK is £1,799
2. Your invoice date is 04/04/2016, we can accept the machine as long as it’s within 2years warranty.
You will be able to use discount for new GTX 10xx series GT series models. Here is the model list you can choose, but please be noted that the stocks are moving every day, some models might be out of stocks time by time.






Please read our Terms and conditions here:
1) This offer is valid ONLY for UK models. Please make sure the model nmber of your laptop ends with the "UK" Example"GS60 6QE/Ghost Pro)-093UK"
2) The MSI notebook warrenty is NOT transferrable. Only the original owner of the laptop will be ableto participate in the trade-in program. Thelaptop will have tobe within its 2 years warranty.
3) Acceptable forms ofpayment are bank transfer.
4) We accpt no responsibility for loss of data and advise you to back up any important files before participating.
5) Once your trade-in is received by us, pleaseallow up to 14 working days for inspection to ensure all OEM partsare present from receiving the unit and that the unit is in satisfactory condition (no physical damageto parts or laptop).
6) Please remember to include all of the laptop parts including but not limited to SSD, RAM, HDD, cables, power supply etc. Any missing partswill be subjectto afull retail price charge. Any OEM defects will not be subject to a chargedue to warranty coverage.
7) Once inspection has been completed, we will inform you of the final upgrade price so that you may decide to participate in or withdraw from the trade-in program.
8) MSI are repsonsible for collecting the trade-in unit & shipping to our support centre.
9) Once you acceptthe offer of the upgrade program you will have 2 weeksto arrange the collection. After this pariod, the offer will no longerbevalid.
10) No alternative or cash will be offered. All MSI offers arefinal.
11) No further trade in program will beoffered at a later date.

We will send you the official agreement to sign then start thefollowing stepsonce you choose the new model, agreed statements above and attach the invoice to us.

Thanks for your patience.
Have a nice day.

MSI UK Notebook

 

So this is what MSI UK Notebook published on 30th November at 16:35:

So the bolded text is a straight out lie.






Edit: No one proof reads at MSI, even the terms and conditions.

 

I am asking that if you have evidence as to what they are doing then please share, enlighten me, because at the moment all I can see is a company operating in a less than open and highly inefficient manner.

All you have been doing is stating that I have absolutely no grounds whatsosever for any thought as to why the whole thing is taking so long and then when they do finally come up with an offer it is unacceptable.

Yes I think that one of the reasons is maybe because they are wanting to absolve responsibility in some manner, as already stated though this is conspiracy theory as by definition I have no proof IT IS JUST A THEORY, based purely on circumstancial evidence.

What other reasoning can any sane person come to?

IIRC MSI UK stated that they would inform everyone by the end of September early October, it had to be by then as the original date for being part of the upgrade closed at the end of October. I understand that they informed some people and the response that they got was very negative so they went back to MSI HQ we were then told that we would receive a new offer closer in pricing to the US offer, and this would be by the end of October, this of course took longer than anticipated but what happened? we got a near identical offer to the original, why?

Now I was not privy to the original MSI UK offer so I am only going by comments made here on this forum.

So you think that waiting from early September to almost the middle of December for any form of response or acknowledgement is acceptable? I don't think that it is.

Also you think that everything has been done above board, no secerecy, as efficiently as possible? MSI contacting everyone who has registered with them with a nice shiny web page from day one apologising with them saying that they mucked up and of course there is that nice long thread on the MSI forum website where we can post all our comments.

And the only cost involved to me in the upgrade program is the cost of the GPU, less the cost of me selling my old GPU on.

I knew that there was going to be a cost associated with this, I accepted that, what I do not accept is having to pay for someone elses mistake because they mucked up and being taken for a ride through a failed ability to deliver their promises that they advertised and made a selling point out of.

The bottom line is that I would not have bought this laptop if there was no way of it being upgraded, this was the only reason for purchasing it.

Instead I would have upgraded my desktop saved a few quid, sold my sons laptop that is also an MSI that should have been able to partake in the fabled MXM upgrade and bought him a new laptop with the money saved and obtained from the sale of his laptop.

That email I received this morning.

 

I'm still waiting for mine. While I wait I am composing an email to the following;

• Dimensional Fund Advisors LP
• Robeco Institutional Asset Management BV
  
• The Vanguard Group, Inc.
  
• Norges Bank Investment Management
  
• Yuanta Securities Investment Trust Co., Ltd.
  
• Quoniam Asset Management GmbH
  
• Mellon Capital Management Corp.
  
• Jih Sun Securities Investment Trust Co., Ltd.
  
• Capital Investment Trust Corp.
  
• SSgA Funds Management, Inc

These are MSI institutional shareholders, I am planning on making them aware of the situation.

This thread has ~200,000 views, my thread on OcUK has ~10,000 views. I wonder if they care how many lost sales this scam will cause? It's pretty obvious MSI as business don't care about it's customers, I wonder if they care about their investors.

 

Thanks for your inquiry.
The Trade-in program in offering now in UK and the deadline of the inquiry will be on 31st Dec.
Basically we will have a discount amount based on the value of your on-hand machine then you will be able to use that discount on the new GTX 10 series GT model you choose.
The value of your laptop will be determined by the SRP at launch and the age of your notebook. You will be able to use this to trade up to selected MSI Notebooks featuring Nvidia GTX 1060 / GTX 1070 / GTX 1080.

According to the data you provided to us, your discount amount will be £910 based on 2 evaluations as follows:
1. The original launch price of your on-hand machine GT72 6QD-048UK is £1,299
2. Your invoice date is 26/05/2016, we can accept the machine as long as it’s within 2years warranty.

You will be able to use discount for new GTX 10xx series GT series models. Here is the model list you can choose, but please be noted that the stocks are moving every day, some models might be out of stocks time by time.

SLI GTX 1080, 8GB GDDR5X IPS/ i7-6820HK/ 32GB/ SR-512+1TB GT83VR 6RF(Titan SLI)-072UK 9S7-181512-072 £ 3,799.00
SLI GTX 1070, 8GB GDDR5 IPS/ i7-6820HK/ 32GB/ SR-256+1TB GT83VR 6RE(Titan SLI)-013UK 9S7-181512-013 £ 3,099.00
SLI GTX 1070, 8GB GDDR5 4K/ i7-6820HK/ 32GB/ SR-512+1TB GT73VR 6RE(Titan SLI 4K)-064UK 9S7-17A111-064 £ 3,099.00
GTX 1080, 8GB GDDR5X 120HZ/i7-6820HK/ 32GB/ SR-512+1TB GT73VR 6RF(Titan Pro)-035UK 9S7-17A111-035 £ 2,699.00
GTX 1080, 8GB GDDR5X 120HZ/ i7/ 16GB/ 256+2TB GT73VR 6RF(Titan Pro)-241UK 9S7-17A111-241 £ 2,599.00
GTX 1080, 8GB GDDR5X 120HZ/i7-6820HK/ 16GB/ 256+1TB GT73VR 6RF(Titan Pro)-220UK 9S7-17A111-220 £ 2,499.00
GTX 1080, 8GB GDDR5X 120HZ/ i7/ 16GB/ 128+2TB GT73VR 6RF(Titan Pro)-240UK 9S7-17A111-240 £ 2,499.00
GTX 1070, 8GB GDDR5 IPS/ i7/16GB/256+1TB GT72VR 6RE(Dominator Pro)-040UK 9S7-178511-040 £ 2,099.00
GTX 1070, 8GB GDDR5 IPS/ i7/ 16GB/ 128+2TB GT72VR 6RE(Dominator Pro)-249UK 9S7-178511-249 £ 1,999.00
GTX 1070, 8GB GDDR5 IPS/ i7/ 8GB/ 256+1TB GT72VR 6RE(Dominator Pro)-233UK 9S7-178511-233 £ 1,999.00
GTX 1070, 8GB GDDR5 4K/ i7/ 16GB/ 1+1 GT62VR 6RE(Dominator Pro 4K)-076UK 9S7-16L221-076 £ 1,999.00
GTX 1070, 8GB GDDR5 IPS/ i7/16GB/1+1 GT72VR 6RE(Dominator Pro)-234UK 9S7-178511-234 £ 1,899.00
GTX 1060, 6GB GDDR5 IPS/ i7/16GB/256+1TB GT72VR 6RD(Dominator)-037UK 9S7-178511-037 £ 1,799.00


Please read our Terms and Conditions here:
1) This offer is valid ONLY for UK models. Please make sure the model number of your laptop ends with ”UK” Example ” GS60 6QE(Ghost Pro)-093UK”
2) The MSI notebook warranty is NOT transferrable. Only the original owner of the laptop will be able to participate in the trade-in program. The laptop will have to be within its 2 years warranty.
3) Acceptable forms of payment are bank transfer.
4) We accept no responsibility for loss of data and advise you back up any important files before participating.
5) Once your trade-in is received by us, please allow up to 14 working days for inspection to ensure all OEM parts are present from receiving the unit and that the unit is in satisfactory condition (no physical damage to parts or laptop).
6) Please remember to include all of the laptop OEM parts, including but not limited to SSD, RAM, HDD, cables, power supply etc. Any missing parts will be subject to a full retail price charge. Any OEM defects will not be subject to a charge due to warranty coverage.
7) Once inspection has been completed, we will inform you of the final upgrade price so that you may decide to participate in or withdraw from the trade-in program.
8) MSI are responsible for collecting the trade-in unit & shipping to our support centre. Please make sure the unit adequately packaged for transit. MSI will not accept responsibility for units that arrive damaged due to insufficient packaging. MSI will be responsible to pay for the shipping the new unit to you.
9) Once you accept the offer of the upgrade program, you will have 2 weeks to arrange the collection. After this period, the offer will no longer be valid.
10) No alternative or cash will be offered. All MSI offers are final.
11) No further trade in program will be offered at a later date.

We will send you the official agreement to sign then start the following steps once you choose the model and agreed statements above.

Thanks you for your patience.
Have a nice day
MSI UK Notebook

Previously I asked the retailer about a compensation or trade-in and this was the response:


Good Afternoon,


Thank you for your email.

I am sorry we do not offer a trade in program so this is something we can not offer.

 

Not sure if the picture I added came out OK, those are the same pricings I was given. When I get a chance I'll look at my sons emails to see if he has received an offer from MSI as well, I think he has the same laptop as you c0rsa1r, however we bought it a while ago, I think two years ago October so will be interesting to see what they say about it.

c0rsa1r, talk to Citizens Advice Bureau, check out your legal rights, your contract is with the reatailer/seller, not the manufacturer.
If they refuse they have to have some form of dispute process which you can go through, this is a legal requirement for all online companiesto be able to provide this.

 

This is one big argument from incredulity.. And I'm not making a claim, so why do I have to give you 'evidence' of anything?.. This is logic 101.. I don't 'believe' what you're saying and I'm responding to the things your putting forward.. I don't have to 'prove' my disbelief.. So we're at an impasse.

And you're right, I have been stating that you have no grounds for making any kind of evidenced claim. Per Hanlon's Razor, I think I've explained this already and am talking in circles. -- I'm addressing your points, not attacking you personally, and I disagree with the conspiracy sentiment.. I've done 'more' than just address your one point, but I digress..

You can claim they're inefficient, that it's slow, and that their offer isn't what you want.. None of that bolsters the theory.. I won't talk to the specifics further, you can keep hammering the details of how long it's taken, what offers there are, how you don't like how it's being handled.. I'm not invalidating those complaints, but you can't use those to claim they're secretly acting in some nefarious way..

Do I think waiting for a long period of time to get a response is 'acceptable'? Me personally? No I don't.. I don't think I made such a claim either.. Not sure why it's being brought up..

Not sure what you meant to say here.. Could you explain? What's the 'secrecy' you're referring to? -- (I think this is a non-native language mistake in grammar? Or you're just typing quickly?)

I'm not following this either.. -- I don't recall them sending anything out to anyone directly, which is something I would expect them to do ASAP and anticipate that they will try to do.. but maybe not.

I pretty much agree with everything here thru..

 

@c0rsa1r you have: MSI GT72 6QD(Dominator G)-048UK 17.3" Intel Core i7-6700HQ, 16 GB RAM, 1 TB HDD, 128 GB SSD, DVDSM, Nvidia GTX970M with GSYNC, Windows 10?

So a GT72VR is a downgrade, less features. Not acceptable.

The MSI GT73VR 6RF(Titan Pro)-219UK is the closest with the GTX 1070 and has an SRP of £2,999.

So MSI expect you to pay £1,589 to upgrade your GPU to nearest available machine.

I wonder which previous MXM upgrades that compares in cost to?

I would recommend emailing MSI back, stating the feature loss of downgrading to the GT72VR is not acceptable, as you use the ssd raid facility to ensure the safety of your data and the mux switch when you are on the road away from a socket.

Ask them then to provide prices as they announced that are 'comparable to previous MXM upgrades' to a GT73VR with GTX 1070, I7, 16GB RAM, 1TB HDD and 128GB SDD (like you existing machine has).

Good luck.

 

I don't have the time for this, I never said I made an evidenced claim I said all along that it was a theory, you said I was sprouting nonsense all I asked was what was your reasoning and if possible provide evidence or come up with your own thoughts as to why it is taking so long, if you think the timeframes are acceptable then fair enough we will just have to disagree on that. As to me sprouting nonsense, yes maybe I am adding 1 and 1 and getting 3 but why all the unnecessary delay?

Or let me guess there is no delay everything is going really smoothly?

Secrecy as in not being open, withholding information, did MSI volunteer information or try and sweep the whole thing under the carpet?

OK so I ask you then what is the aim of carrying out the following? not publishing the upgrade information on their website, limiting the trade-in to within specific timeframes not notifying people who have registered with them.

 

All of this is true. Neil at MSI refused to provide information requested. MSI took down videos demonstrating how to upgrade your GPU. There are lies in the emails they have sent out that we are all witness to.

There is no argument that MSI Insists on Perfection of User Experience.

 

As requested, MSI USA sent an MSRP table for the new Pascal GT models that can be upgraded to through the trade-in program.

"Hi Scott,

I can give you chart with the MSRP and Offered model for the trade it. But I cannot give a complete table of the user’s laptop and their upgrade cost. There will over 30 different price charts for it.

Model Name MSRP

GT83VR TITAN SLI-024 $4,999 GTX 1080 SLI

GT83VR TITAN SLI-023 $3,999 GTX 1070 SLI

GT83VR TITAN SLI-055 $3,499

GT73VR Titan Pro-201 $3,599 GTX 1080

GT73VR Titan Pro 4K-200 $3,899

GT73VR TITAN PRO-003 $2,799

GT73VR TITAN SLI-058 $3,499 GTX 1070 SLI

GT73VR Titan SLI-212 $2,999

GT73VR TITAN 4K-226 $2,399 GTX 1070

GT73VR TITAN-017 $2,199

GT72VR Tobii-031 $2,599

GT72VR Dominator Pro-257 $1,999

GT72VR Dominator-032 $1,999 GTX 1060

GT72VR Dominator-033 $1,799

GT72VR Dominator-063 $1,599

GT72VR Dominator-255 $1,649

This is for US Only."

New MSI USA Trade-in Team info updated on webpage:
http://event.msicomputer.com/usagttradein/

Updated form linked on that webpage:
http://event.msicomputer.com/download/MSI GT Trade In Upgrade Program 1231.pdf

"Hi Scott,

HQ has updated the Form with the new Deadline. I have attached it for your reference, it will be add on to the webpage with the trade-in Announcement.

Thanks!"

 

That's all available on msi.com.

Maybe they could provide just 7 figures. What price they attribute to a GTX965M, GTX970M, GTX980M, GTX980, GTX1060, GTX1070, and GTX1080.

Simple really.

 

Update from MSI USA Trade-in Team on asking for FAQ and asking MSI USA to reach out to all USA registered GT72 / GT80 owners to alert them of the trade-in program.

"Hi Scott,

I am too swarmed at moment. I have requested XXXX to speed up the FAQ. Hopefully he can get at least a PART 1 out first.

I will let PM know about eblasting the previous owners of the trade-in. This will probably request HQ involve.

I appreciate you answering questions for us on the forum. "

 

So they really are utilizing you like a community relations rep. I'm not really comfortable with the relationship MSI has directly with you and with you being the original thread creator and so intertwined with MSI and so vocal against anyone with anything disparaging to say against MSI within this thread. It just feels wrong.

Don't get me wrong - I appreciate all the feedback and keeping the original post updated, but it still feels wrong.

 

It should feel right, not wrong.

I have no financial or personal affiliation with MSI, MSI USA, or any other laptop maker, distributor, or retail location.

I am the ideal independent person with no vested interest other than my own interest in getting my GT80's 2 generations of GPU upgrades. As part of keeping the process going smoothly I have asked questions of MSI USA and posted their answers in this thread - but others are posting their responses from MSI USA too - so it's not just me.

I am getting no compensation or discounts or any other consideration for helping out fellow MSI USA GT72 / GT80 owners, the same as I don't get compensation for helping out other laptop owners here on NBR. That's how user support forums work.

I was the first vocal voice trying to put things together to get MSI USA to follow through on 2 generations of GPU upgrades. I made the thread when MSI USA was telling people there would be no GPU upgrades and to instead purchase a new MSI USA Pascal laptop.

I created the thread and invited people to put pressure on MSI USA through the US Better Business Bureau which finally got some action from MSI USA - which is why they responded first before other regions.

It's taken a lot of effort by people in this thread for months to get MSI USA this far, and to fill up the thread with negative repetitive and long over repeated BS just when we are getting action out of MSI USA is counterproductive to the efforts we have all put forth thus far.

There has been plenty of disparaging commentary from me and others from the beginning of the thread, but at this point with the MSI USA Trade-in Program worked into an official public announcement, we need to turn things around and be positive for what we have and work together to make sure each MSI USA GT72 / GT80 owner gets a good trade-in offer.

For me this started about 5 months ago, so I have seen everybody come through here and repeat the same process of coming up to speed, and all the stages in between to arrive at a decision to either take the trade-in or not. It's really that simple.

If you want to pursue another avenue to satisfy yourself, then please do so, but please don't stick around and try to burn down what we have built to get ourselves what we need from MSI USA - the 2 generations of GPU upgrades through trade-ins. It's not been easy to get this far, so please don't mess it up for us now.

That's why I am trying to get things moving in a positive direction, not because of any affiliation with MSI USA, but because I share a self interest in gettng MSI USA to follow through with the 2 generations of GPU upgrades along with other NBR MSI USA Owners.

 

.....MSI have point blank lied when they stated the trade-upgrade program would cost the same as if you were to solely upgrade the GPU.

Pointing out MSI's lies and lack of integrity is almost as bad as your denial of it.

Maybe you could try and get MSI to be a company of their word and fulfil the Trade-Upgrade Scam as they described?

That would be a positive direction.

 

The only questions i have is how many people are on this "team" and how are they picking who they are currently helping with the trade in. Because at this rate i can't imagine it is by date of submittal. I believe the form was first made available on august 25th and i submitted my form on the 29th. If it has taken them this long to just get the people that turned in the form within the first 3 to 4 days could you imagine how long it is going to take for them to get to everyone? (if they are going by date of receiving the form)

 

Have you gotten any kind of response after sending in the form? When?

 

No, I understand and think I get where you're coming from. The wrong part for me is that MSI is giving only one owner preferential treatment and almost ignoring the rest of the community by utilizing the services of an unpaid party who is part of that very same community. You being the thread creator just complicates it even more. MSI has 13,500 employees and revenues of 2.7 billion.

Its on them. Them ignoring everyone else is really just causing more chaos. I'm sorry we're all caught in the middle of it.

I feel like you keep viewing it as MSI working with you to help the community get answers - many of us (or me at the very least) are viewing it as MSI working directly with you and ignoring everyone else, which isn't even fair since your trade is already resolved.

I hate to say it and can't speak for anyone else, but I almost rather you just allow MSI to deal with all owners directly. I mean we can still compile the information as owners obtain more information, but I wouldn't want anyone to be MSI's spokesman, especially if they end up in litigation over this fiasco.

It isn't you at all. Its the situation. MSI is rotten for having placed you in the middle of it.

 

After waiting a few weeks and sending multiple emails asking for them to acknowledge that they received the form . I finally got them to respond that they did get my form on sept 14. Then a few weeks later i sent another email asking for an update and finally on 10/12 i got an email saying "We will be contacting you with more details of this trade-in program in the coming weeks. " I also got the one they send out to everyone on 10/20. Then mid november i sent another email asking again for an update since it had been 30 days since i have heard from anyone and on 11/23 i got this email

"We are currently slowly getting in contact with everyone personally about their case. Due to the extremely high volume of trade-in requests and the complicated nature of this program, it is taking us longer than expected to get to everyone. Don’t worry, your information is on file with us and there is no deadline to trade in your laptop. We will make sure to take care of all of our customers. Please continue to be patient while we get to you."

So yes they have responded to basically say just wait and be patient . But that is one trait unfortunately i was born with very little of.

 

See I don't like that they are working with him because it has unfortunately opened him up to attacks against his character merely for expressing his opinion. We can have differing opinions, but there is no reason for people to become rude or disrespectful towards others because of it. I'm not accusing you by the way. I don't think you've done that. But some others have. People get attached to their opinions and treat a differing opinion like its an assault on their character.

 

I'm irritated that they put him in this position. It was never his burden to own, had MSI stepped up and resolved the issues. MSI knew months ago when they were designing the new models that Pascal modules wouldn't work with our devices. They knew as soon as they built to accommodate for the change in architecture. The communication should have rolled out as soon as the new models rolled out.

MSI could have been way ahead on this and even offered us "early" options for the new models as a gesture of good faith. Instead, they kept plugging the old devices to absolutely minimize the loss and push the burden squarely on the uninformed consumer, who was kept in the dark.

 

Well I can tell you they aren't going by date if that's the case. I sent my form in on Sept 14th and I'm getting my upgrade on Monday. My offer e-mail was received on 11/15.

Maybe I went sooner since I was more of a "problem" case and it would take longer so they wanted it out of the way?

 

I have Fedex tracking for my trade in unit from MSI to me.
The timing was as follows.

Nov 19th I indicated I was interested in the trade in
Nov 21st I got a reply with exact specs of replacement unit
Nov 30th I sent my laptop back to MSI
Dec 2nd MSI received my laptop
Dec 6th MSI sent me a form to fill out for payment
Dec 9th CC was charged and I received fedex tracking of new laptop

Fedex shows I will have laptop on the 15th

 

Yep that is what i have suspected for a while now.

 

It's a small number of people, that's why I have been trying to get the answers from MSI for all of us so each person doesn't need to ask the same questions on every trade-in - saving time on each turn of a trade-in gets more people served through the process quicker.

From the start I let MSI USA Trade-in Team know that even though I was getting the word out for them here on NBR, MSI USA needs to do it officially through their own channels, so the wider audience of owners will see it.

Even though we have answers to many questions, I have encouraged people to ask the same questions to verify the answers, if they have any doubts it's best to get the answer straight from MSI USA.

IDK how long they are going to take to catch up, but hopefully they will get through the holiday with as many trade-in's completed and new Pascal laptops placed in the hands of happy owners

 

Any clue what is happening with the old devices that are traded in?

 

Just so you know, I haven't done a trade-in yet, so I haven't gotten any preferential treatment as an owner, I am not acting on getting the upgrade this year.

MSI USA isn't spending much of their time answering my emails - usually with questions asked by others here - so don't worry about it taking away time from MSI USA working directly with owners - from what they tell me, that's where all of their days are spent.

Other owners are getting answers from MSI USA Trade-in Team and posting them here too. It's not just me posting MSI USA information. I am not acting as a spokesman for MSI USA, I am asking questions and passing on answers from MSI USA, just like other owners are.

MSI USA isn't ignoring everyone else, they are talking with owners every day to handle their trade-in's. When it happens for you it will be like for everyone else, and then it will be done and you don't need to worry about it any more.

Since I started the thread I am going to hang around and help others through the process and get their questions answered. That's how we've gotten this far and I am sticking with it as long as needed.

Eventually after MSI USA publishes their Answers FAQ, and get things streamlined I won't need to ask questions and post answers here, as they will all have been asked and answered

Patience is an acquired trait, it takes a lot of effort expended fruitlessly to generate the learned expertise to know when to do nothing is the most constructive path.

Further wisdom is gained when you figure out to how to enjoy that part of the process that involves doing nothing, constructively applying that time to further the involvement of others informing them of the work in process - so that they may gain the perspective to have the patience they need to continue moving forward with a positive attitude.

Patience is the culmination of the realization that it's gonna happen, you just gotta let the time pass until it does.

I work with this patience problem all the time with clients with projects that have stalled and they are stuck on how to move forward again, let alone how to bring the project to a successful completion.

I find that much of the reason for participants not getting a project done was due to not having the information they required to have the patience to let things happen.

Instead they try forcing progress that generated friction and heat between the participants that stalled the whole project, either by pissing people(s) off or by breaking hardware or services or rules that involved other parties.

The lack of communication and the patience it would bring brought down a whole load of "heat" onto a situation that should have just been allowed to complete.

95% of the projects I save already have 100% of what they need to be successful, it's just that the resources haven't been arranged to provide the feedback needed to properly set the expectations that would be met in the order they needed to be executed.

And, everybody is so pissed off they can't bear to even contemplate starting things up again to get a project through to completion. They have run out of patience.

Lack of patience is the #1 killer of situations that would have otherwise met a happy and successful conclusion if only allowed the time they needed to complete.

MSI USA hasn't said anything about how they are going to manage the returns. We can speculate that they will refurbish them and re-market them somewhere, but there are no official mentions so far.

I haven't asked them directly, and I haven't heard of any other owner asking either.

Do you want me to ask MSI USA for you?

It's ok, it's natural for people to focus their frustration on the person that is getting the attention.

It seems counter-intuitive the first time you see it happen to someone else or have it happen to you.

Why would people be upset by someone doing something constructive to move things forward?

It tells me they aren't used to pitching in and helping out in this way themselves, it's a foreign concept that needs explanation, and often the only tools they have in their concept vocabulary is some kinda "inside job", or this guys "getting special treatment", or somehow "he's working for them".

Like I said, it doesn't bother me because I've been through it on both ends many times.

When I am on the outside looking in I am happy that someone else is doing something for a change so I don't need to step up to get things done.

There are plenty of other people here on NBR that have done way more than me in this role of trying to get things accomplished by working with other vendors. They have many more years of being a member and have had many opportunities to help others.

They have built a relationship with the vendor to accomplish their own goals, but stick around to help others accomplish their goals too - paying things forward to help others help themselves.

Done right everyone learns how to do this and takes on this role themselves somewhere down the line, hopefully many times in many circumstances.

Helping to make the world a better place for ourselves and everyone else.

 

@hmscott Why would you endeavour to assist MSI on this forum, when 1, they have rep's here for that purpose and 2, the deal is really bad for MSI USA's customers?

 

Most likely some on MSI are answering more directly through hmscott because of how things slowly turned out. If MSI reps themselves started answering here they would just get attacked or swamped by too many questions, then attacked for not being able to answer them ASAP.

They are not in a position they can do anything right now, but at least it seems they find posting some answers through hmscott.

Though it is not only hmscott that has gotten answers, he is just relaying some of the answers as of late.