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I assume he's thermal testings were done using the same method for both machines:
1. for the Z2/15+, after 30 min of burn-in, with 26C room temp, CPU was at 95C, 50W power draw, 2.9GHz CPU clock, GPU at 87C and 1.2GHz
2. for the X8ti-plus/17+, after 30 min of burn-in, with 25C room temp, CPU was at 92C, 65W power draw, 3.3GHz CPU clock, GPU at 64C and 1.2GHz
what's interesting to me tho, was both of his systems were only equipped with 1 stick of 8GB kingston RAM, so how come he didnt run into the 35W single channel RAM issue?
but I am mainly going to use this laptop for photo editing, i think the thermal performance, and thus the CPU performance may be worth the $200 premium for getting the 17+, and i hope 32GB RAM helps with Adobe Lightroom.
My guess is something is defective with the heat sink/thermal paste. Given how bad it is I am not willing to take the chance and void the warranty by pulling the heat sink.
Look at the power usage though. In addition my wifes xps 9370 can maintain 3.3 ghz on all 4 cores with an 8550u cpu for prime 95. So yes, it is relevant in this case.
You’re comparing a low-watt 4 core, 8-thread 15w CPU to a 45w 6-core, 12-thread hot CPU.
It’s not relevant at all. Prime95 will toast any laptop with a 8750H.
Like, I don't want to sink more money in this machine to find out it's not going to perform the way I expect. Something all of a sudden seems off and I didn't change anything.
Meanwhile, that Alienware M15 that I have packed up for a second time is STILL SITTING at my office, and I know what it's capable of. I can't cancel that return again, can I? OMG.
It doesn't help that I just got my christmas bonus which was double what I expected and is burning a damn hole in my pocket. FML.
Prime 95 26.6 is a perfectly valid way to test this CPU. A friend's Helios 300 will maintain 3.6 ghz on all 6 cores on the 8750h with a slight undervolt. The fact that mine will only maintain 2 GHZ, pulling 20 watts and hit those temps clearly show it is defective.
My max core is hitting 3.9, but dropping to 3.1, 3.2.. Temps staying in the 70s, but cache is only getting up to 3.6 mhz.
I am using TS to undervolt - 1 on speed shift and a very conservative -.125 mv undervolt on core and cache. Even if I eliminate the undervolt, I still get current limit throttling and power throttling.
Mark score tops out at 975. Temp maxes out at 80. Something's wrong.
I agree. When I test with XTU I am running into the same issue with high temps low clocks and current/power throttling. It will be interesting to see Bob's tests.
I had this thing running like a damn top before I wiped it to take it back. Then Walmart decided to give it to me for $300 off, so I loaded my software up again. I did nothing different yet I am getting greatly different results! It makes no damn sense!
Ok update. 2 of my heat sink screws were loose. I was able to tighten those down and and I am getting exepcted results but I am still limited to 35 watts with two 8 gb sticks. Any insight on how to change this?
We will be posting the BIOS updates, Control Center and drivers up on the Overpowered website this week. In the meantime we can send files directly to you. Just let us know what files you need and we will send it right over.
We also suggest installing the NVIDIA GeForce Experience to get all of your GPU drivers up to date. Please download the NVIDIA GeForce Experience from the below link.
There are SO many different variations of GC right now. Most prefer Windows build 1803. Testing the latest from OP with build 1809. Big updates from Windows have been known to throw off this software. Even Eluktronics states that their version is for 1803.
P95 is a terrible idea on laptops. The most common variable when comparing two machines with P95 in the previous case mentioned could be the difference between "balanced mode" and "performance mode". Something to look into perhaps.
For those commenting on the wattage pulled based on RAM sticks did not understand what I meant in the "FIXED" video. If you are not getting the correct results post RAM upgrade then you have to look at Windows build to GC compatibility and of course are you in Office or Game mode. ALWAYS keep your Power Mode to balanced or you'll never figure out what's going on with these machines. I explain this in the Undervolt Tutorial using ThrottleStop on the 8750h.
I just recorded a video that I will use in the performance review coming soon. I am running the latest BIOS and EC, -.125uv and the factory single channel RAM. Wattage is around 27 due to the undervolt. Setting the Power Mode to "High Performance" will increase the wattage to the 40 ish (based on the UV in this odd case) but that is NOT what I am trying to do. Increasing the wattage is easy. I just have never seen a laptop behave this way per my testing. Do not get tied up on the performance side of things here. That is not relevant yet.
For example, the video (BF5) I just recorded ran balanced mode with the settings in the paragraph above. Wattage around 27 like i said per the info above. GPU usage is crazy at 60-90% as it should be with single channel RAM and average FPS per my settings was 70ish. Then I set the Power Mode to "Performance" (you can do this in the GC or Windows, both for all I care) then the wattage and frequency goes up....but the FPS doesn't improve (it actually goes down a bit).
Long story short, you're fooling yourself in "performance" mode per my explanation in the UV tutorial. The discrepancy was always about the wattage pulled per a properly configured laptop and that Dual Channel was the cure which I will show in the upcoming video later this week.
I disagree on prime 95 as it's a great way to test the limits on a system for the CPU; just like furmark for the GPU. I do use an older version though - 26.6.
About RAM if could be useful my 15” is fitted with 2x8gb Kingston HyperX Impact DDR4 2400 CL14 modules. From stock they should run at 2400MHz but on mine are working at 2667MHz. I’ve read that these RAMs automatically overclock when recognize the system could support it, maybe for an automatic XMP profile activation? I guess you know better than me...
If anyone is looking to sell their stick of RAM, it's probably better to do it sooner than later. RAM prices are steadily dropping and will continue to do so in 2019. I'm looking at pricing history on camelcamelcamel and it blows my mind that a 16GB stick of DDR4 used to be $60 in 2016. And a 2x8GB set of Corsair Vengeance was $40 at one point. Then it basically tripled in less than two years. Happy to see prices dropping to sane levels.
I get my OP 15+ tomorrow, and I might be interested in buying someone's Goldkey stick. Or I might just wait out the RAM price drop and survive on single channel for a while.
Yes. I bought it at $999. First time they dropped the price they gave me $100 off. Second time they dropped the price they gave me $200 off even though I told them I already got $100 off.
If they give me $999 plus tax off when I take it back I'm gonna have to say something.
Here’s another one. My Tong Fang Mech 15 (gen 1) with a 7700hq uses 2400mhz. When I installed 2666 sticks it recognizes it.
Awhile back I installed 3200mhz (I no longer have this kit) and it defaults back to 2400. Same kit on the p650hp accepted it and would BSOD after playing BF1 for about 5-10 minutes.
In the OP 15+ to test dual channel I have a native 2400mhz kit and it only recognizes it as 2400.
Where do we go from here? Lol. That’s a serious question
Edit: My point is without XMP profiles and a properly configured one to correctly run faster than native memory, you never know what you’re going to get.
This is why it’s always recommended to go with the factory speed on laptops.
I’ve also seen vendors offer 2666 on their 7700hq laptops. Alienware for example.
When I first got the laptop and used it right out of the box, I was having the same power limit issue as Bob. But, after finally getting the EC to flash, the thing was running great, single channel RAM and all.
Well, with my indecisiveness, I decided I was going to keep the M15 and I reset the thing to factory. Then, when Walmart dropped the price to $799, I changed my damn mind AGAIN. So I fired up the OP 15+ and started going to town setting it up. I finished setting everything back up, but now I have problems. Benchmark tests in XTU are getting horrendous results. The clock speeds are being held way down and I am getting current limit throttling AND power limit throttling for no reason. Clock speed on the core is ranging from 2,600 Mhz to 3,200 Mhz, and the cache frequency is sitting at 3,600 Mhz.
I literally changed nothing from what I did last time. I deleted my TS ini file, undid all the undervolting and got the same results. Something all of a sudden changed with my system, but the only thing that changed was I did a factory reset. I updated the GC software and everything, but it's running like absolute crap.
This is the same reason I struggled with keeping the AW (besides price). I need a damn PC that works out of the box with little fuss. At least with the AW, I knew what I had to do to keep temps down. I don't trust this thing to work for me and I am not swapping it out for a new unit. I am going to just send them both back for now and wait until CES. See if prices come down or something cool is announced.
You will ALWAYS have PL throttling on the 8750h. It wants to pull way above its 45w TDP. Have you seen the wattage the m1 wants to pull? It's nuts!
You previously could have had Windows build 1803 which is what the GC likes. Then you reset and it might have pulled 1809.
Then there's many variables you could have missed such as Performance modes and specific UV settings.
By all means wait for CES should you wish. But I have said over and over again how to get this working at its best. But for some reason people are misunderstanding and attempting to get around a problem that has already been solved.
Edit: I wish I had the wattage pulled up for Rivatuner here. But here is another clear example of the performance gained from Dual Channel. 1 x 16 vs 2 x 4 actually.
WOW this is promising. What BIOS, EC, version of windows are you running? sry if you've already stated it but things are getting buried fast in here. And you seem to be getting NICE results.
It always ends up being software related... Except of course for the dual channel problem Bob discovered that I still can't quite figure out.
^ This ... there is so much variance between everyone's setup (BIOS / EC versions, GC/XTU software, Windows version, single vs dual channel RAM, the list goes on...) that it will never be a 1:1 comparison. I use Linux 90% of the time and do tons of builds for work that stresses the hell out of this and I can tell you that it runs REALLY hot, and loud. It's just the nature of the processor, a 45W processor running at 100% in a slim chassis is insane. I'll have some more concrete numbers later, have to find a Hwinfo64 equivalent in Linux that shows live stats.
I hear you Bob and I appreciate everything you do. Please know that.
I can only go on what I saw with my own two eyes in this case. I know I don't know everything about computers, but I do know what I did in both scenarios and the differences I saw in the results.
I had run the new GC, and I allowed Windows to fully update to 1809 in both cases. Regardless, it was running poorer than it was before I flashed the bios and EC and updated GC! Perhaps there are loose internals like Hoge experienced. I don't know. What I do know is that I don't love this thing and I am trying to love it because it's so cheap. But I am not sure that's the best motivation. I know you'll get the best out of this laptop and keep it running for a good long while. I may come back to it. For now, I am going to set it in the corner and move on. I reset it last night again so it's ready to go back. The M15 was picked up by UPS this morning. No more indecisiveness! I'm only indecisive because I don't love any of them!
No sweat man definitely no hard feelings at all. I’m just here to help.
Current gaming center is version 1.2.2.8
Just in case there’s any discrepancies out there for others.
Stephen from own or disown was having problems with the 17 inch model until I sent him the dropbox file for this gaming center and now he’s up rocking and rolling this morning.
Sorry to hear that man. Hope you find the laptop you were looking for soon!
My order for the laptop is still in progress but yeah looks like investing in the memory right off the bat may not be the best idea till i can understand if I want to keep this.
I need to do some more testing but it seems that if you remove the GC software you can up the power limits in XTU. I was impressed with the prime 95 26.6 performance - this system outperforms the Helios 300 with the same chip by quite a bit. I still can't figure out what killed my front LED though; I have re-installed the GC software and still no luck on it.
So, I purchased a OP17+ also to test, and then I will return the one I like least. But if I stick with the OP17+, it sadly only has a 5400RPM storage drive. So i will likely need to upgrade storage right away. I saw people discussing the M.2 Slots, and I have some questions.
When it comes to using the Second M.2 Slot w/ a PCIE m.2 SSD, will the fact it will only support 2 lane be limiting?
If the second slot will in fact be limiting to the point of it affecting performance, how difficult will it be to migrate the OS to a new bigger m.2 PCIE/SATA SSD, and what ones are recommended. I am looking for roughly a terabyte.
If the battery packs come back in stock, would the same battery modification be usable?
Just curious on everyone's thoughts regarding Walmart's price on this. Is Walmart blowing these out due to the bad press and planning on a re-brand or possibly killing off the brand? Or are they trying to establish a large user base for future systems? Either way, we win. Given the hardware, build quality, and form factor this laptop is the best value currently available by far.
Bad Press is for sure a factor, impossible to tell if its for a rebrand/kill off or just hooking consumers on actually quality product (unlike the PCs). Also a possibility Walmart/Esports Arena started the work on thses before knowing about the RTX 2000 series on the horizon. Nvidia probably told people to sell their Pascal's asap. Hard to say for sure. But in the end, like you said, we win.
I don't think they would kill off the brand after some bad PR. Plenty of brands, even in the electronic/video game industry, face bad PR but persevere. Look at Nintendo with the 3DS, Sony with the PS3, or Microsoft with the XBOX 360. They did not kill off the systems due to bad launches. They just had to re-calibrate to establish their userbase. I can only assume Walmart is taking a loss on the hardware loss but is making it up through other ventures, such as getting a cut from those who participate in the esports arena (whatever that is). People who buy these systems may also buy some accessories (eg. HDMI cables), which have high profit margins.
It's kind of a weird venture if you ask me but I do see why a large corporation would want to penetrate the market. Gaming is a huge industry. It's larger than movies and has been for awhile.
Problems? See this thread at archive.org.
