Anyone else disappointed?

They have not had technical users since the HD4600 series from AMD/ATI so that's not a surprise. That's 8 years ago for the most part. Pretty crazy stuff.

 

In regards to the bga Acer x21


Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk

 

I think giving them credit for being control freaks gives them too much benefit of doubt. After years of overclocking I have not seen a computer catch on fire or blow up from pushing the overclock too far. We have seen a few catch on fire that had design defects, but never once from overclocking. The danger of damage from overclocking is even less likely on a laptop because they gimp a few things that are not gimped on an enthusiast desktop board.

Those comments expose their ignorance. The comments made by the person representing Acer reminds me a lot of the ludicrous comments and excuses made by Mr. Azor a couple of years ago.

I think what they are saying is, " We have no stinking clue what the hell we are doing when it comes to building high performance notebooks, or what the best components are to use. So, we've given you some nice features like a gigantic curved screen and gadgets like a mechanical keyboard and flip-over keypad to make it appear that we do to distract everyone from our incompetence and poor judgment. By using words like 'extreme' we are counting on the fact that most gamer-boys are going to be just as misinformed and inexperienced as we are and take those words literally just because we say so."

LOL! Too funny. +5 rep

 

What clued me in was all the claimed customization is just a bunch of superficial crap for the new kids.

Glass cover, light up fans, curved screen.

OMG you can upgrade the RAM, woweee!

Things they got right: ultra wide screen...and that's it.
(I'll give a nod to the keyboard.)

Even the eye tracking is just barely interesting.

 

I really hope that it doesn't have a BGA CPU as I really like it to get away from the crappiest keyboard I ever touched on my P870DM and that bigger screen is something to drool over. If it's not this, I think w3 4r3 d00m3d

 

If this good looking AcerBook come with socketed hardware... What if Firmvare is crippled and fully locked? Who can mod Bios/Ec? Relying on Acer's engineers? I think we say NO thanks

 

Hm, if this one would come fully socketed (which we know it doesn't ) then it would be on par with the Phoenix 2.0 as well, which in turn is limited too as we know, even if not so bad!

 

That's it's. This is the other part that's needed. If Clevo didn't have Prema doing the lords work they'd be a hard sell. Locked down firmware might as well be BGA.
Still, upgrades aside, even for part replacement BGA is such a foolish choice for such a huge expensive machine.

 

See ^^^^ @TBoneSan
I don't need to say much more

 

Then I'd ask @Prema if he'd be willing to take on a new Padawan that specializes in freeing those Acer machines as well.

 

It tends to take several generations (at least 2-3) of a new segment a company enters to really nail down a design. Can we leave it there please?

 

Every company that has to explain their customers 'why' what they are selling is exactly what they 'should want' is simply not listening to what their customers really want.

 

I don't know why there is so much shock about Acer, it's Acer after all guys, what do you expect????

 

Maybe it's just because after all this "failings", Acer brought up something new, unconventional and seeded new hopes that this time it could be really different.

But nope! Same trash as the others....

 

I too am disappointed with Clevo.

I do like my laptop, but I'm not buying another one from Clevo/reseller after it becomes obsolete for future games.

I want upgradeability and that's the whole reason I invested in this laptop. So if they aren't planning on selling upgrade kits that work with my laptop, then I'm not giving Clevo any more of my money.

I'm definitely not buying their newer models. I don't trust them to be supported later either.

 

I am not totally disagreeing with you. However, if that's truly the case, your only remaining option is not buy anything new, or just go back to desktops and totally forget about laptops forever. All other laptops, save for a select few Clevo models, are crippled BGA filthbooks that are pieces of trash that are not worth owning. If you buy some castrated BGA turd then you become part of the problem that has resulted in your disappointment. The more people that feel this way, the better our future will be.

 

Oh, don't worry. I promise you I will not be buying anymore gaming laptops from anyone. This was my first and it will be my last.

The only reason I bought it was because it had desktop power and was socketed. It also had a Thunderbolt 3.0 port. It appeared to be an actual upgradeable laptop. It was designed with that in mind; sadly, it was not followed up on by Clevo.

I figured it was as good of an investment as any desktop build. I'd get at least 1 or 2 more GPU cycles out of it. Maybe even a newer Skylake/Cannonlake CPU? Who knows.

I took a chance on this Clevo, and although it's great now, I know I'll be ticked off in 3 years because I like to squeeze every last drop of juice out of my hardware before I throw in the towel. I don't run out and buy the latest/greatest every 6 months. I get everything I can out of my hardware. Usually, it's the software developers who mandate when my system won't run their games or OS's with some arbitrary "Minimum Requirement" nonsense, not the actual power of my systems.

My last system was an i7 920 system. SATA2, USB 2.0, PCIe 2.0. It was a 6-year-old system. Built it back in 2010. The only upgrades I've made to it were the GPU and added some more ram over the years. I went from a 8800GT, to a GTX 460 to a GTX 770. Hell, I could slap a GTX 1080 in it right now, thanks to Desktop PCIe 16X backward compatibility, if not for the bottleneck of the last-gen buses on the MOBO. I even have the Samsung SSD from that system in my Clevo right now as a secondary drive. I overlocked the hell out of that i7 920 CPU and it lasted me SIX years until I finally "upgraded" to this Clevo laptop.

I'm not going to get 6 years out of this laptop because it's already maxed out and it's BARELY a year old as I write this. Heck, I can't even access the BIOS settings because I don't have the Prema Bios in it. Why would Clevo sell an enthusiast gaming laptop with such limited Bios access? It's as if it was all a big lie.

But, you live, you learn. Next time, I'll do much more research before making such a big purchase.

I'm done with Clevo, and all gaming laptop manufacturers for that matter. I will not recommend them to my friends. I'll keep steering everyone away from gaming laptops and use myself and my expensive Clevo purchase as a example of why.

 

Wait... just help me with a fast info. GTX1080 not possible in P870DM-G? Why? Sorry I'm not really up to date and someone telling me that in a short info would help me really.

 

No. Why? Read this thread.

PS: It's info not "a info" information is always plural

 

Why? Because Clevo changed the internals. Both the graphics card and the chassis design

 

Note that clevo had to with the 1080, it requires the vram in a certain arrangement around the core to achieve the 10ghz memory clock

 

Or put it the other way... Clevo did a loosy job with the internal design in the first DM models!! Interpret this as you want

 

It was impossible to guess that GDDR5x would have new design requirements, otherwise they were following standard MXM layouts as specified by Nvidia.

 

Has there been any official statement from Clevo, Sager, Eurocom, or other vendor regarding the design requirement changes?

 

This is all too thin bro.... With MMX slots so close to each other in P87oDm1, understand all that there is no room for one or two graphics cards with a modified graphics design. A large computer company such as Clevo, should easily foreseen that changes may happen. Also the design wasn't good enough for 980m Sli. Remember the P870Dm1 couldn't use 980 Sli either!!

 

It could have run with dual 980 sli with the smaller pcb version though of similar TDP to the 1080. They decided not to go that route though last gen.

 

I dont see that being a problem with the MSI 1080's ?

 

I need not be a rocket scientist to see that DM1 was half made. Engineers don't make such mistakes. Interpret it as you wish sir. I do not buy the explanation. Sorry

 

Then you don't understand pcb/system design. Most people don't.

 

So you mean if the cards would fit in Dm1 (if Clevo didn't changed where the mmx slots are).... The cards don't work in DM1? Of course I mean with the correct power connector from MB to graphics. If Clevo did the correct internal design from the beginning!!! You mean Clevo couldn't put the MMX slots the correct way in DM1? Sorry my not so good English.

 

I mean they had no reason to space out the slots like you are talking about. They were following design rules which have now changed and there was no telling that they would as far in advance as you are thinking.

 

When Nvidia comes up with a new design and show the OEM's... I will think Clevo's engineers understand very well that more will come from Nvidia and design the mmx Slots positioning (the positioning they used was not progressive for none of their newest models intended for 980) for later design changes. They knew the reference design should be terminated + they also knew that the card design would be a bit bigger than the old ones such as 980m. It's harder to extinguish the the fire if it has become too large. I MEAN *as you said*... But It's the Clevo's engineers who know the fully 100% truth about this mess aka new MMX positioning design...
I understand very well that they want to make money(Everybody want that). So it was ingenious/(random, LOL) with a new internal design 1 year after their <same> first laptop design

 

Originally Clevo wanted the DM2 model to be the DM-refresh version for GTX1060 (SLI), GTX1070 (SLI) and single 1080 (with same thickness, old connector and 5v FANs etc.).
It's cards where to be compatible in format and shape with the original DM.
The DM3 was planned as being the MUCH thicker 1080 SLI Monster.
That was back at time where only the 1080 was expected to get the 'Desktop' branding.

With NVIDIA dropping reference designs, going with the Desktop branding for all cards and the MUCH higher development costs involved, they then cut it all down to one board/body (DM2/3) with the only difference being left being heatsinks and bundled PSU.
The GPUs where then given the new Clevo standard treatment as well, with the same 'meet in the middle' approach.
Even the original mobile 980 cards can be ordered from factory in that same new Clevo form factor...

There are things going on behind the scenes in an attempt to 'help existing user', but it is neither my place to go into details nor the right time to do so...

Keep making noise and it may get heard!

 

Rep added Better with Red color

 

As an engineer, engineers make a lot more mistakes than you give them credit for.

 

To be honest I am sure they could have used the 980 (180W) design for 1080 and we could have had SLI. It's like what has been said. Reference designs were dropped, manufacturers needed to make their own new reference design and the only way for that is with money so they made a new design but at the cost of everyone buying new machines.

From what I'm hearing this will be Clevo's new reference design from now on. The only problem is, what is stopping them from doing something similar again in the future(Volta)? I think they just lost trust from a lot of us is all.

We are making as much noise as we can, but thus far nothing has come up aside from Eurocom plugging in a MSI 1070 in our machines which kinda should have worked anyways since it's mxm 3.0b almost and requires no power connector. The RX 480 MXM card looks interesting and crossfiring those would be interesting but they're not really a 980 upgrade.


I think if Clevo releases 1070 SLI and single 1080 at least for the P870DM a lot of people will be happy and can keep their trust with Clevo. If the 1070 cards are SLI they will also fit all P775DM/P770DM/ZM/P750DM/ZM models even the P570WM. But for that we wait and see where things go.

I really like Clevo, they're the only laptop brand (after Alienware went BGA) that still has high performance machines ( I've owned P570WM with the 10-core Xeon and now the P870DM with 6700K) and I hope things go in a way that suits everyone in one way or another.

Let's keep making noise @Papusan @bloodhawk

 

I don't see how they could make a standard width 1080 if the memory packages have to be arranged around the die in such close proximity. But I also don't see why it has to be barely long enough to not fit in the DM. Single 1080 should have been a very doable upgrade.

 

The layout doesn't seem to be all that different. MSI ones seem to be packaged closer (and more compactly). So its definitely possible.

 

I'm looking at the MSI single card variant 1080 right now and the memory layout looks similarly wide. Are you referring to the SLI version?

 

Spoiler: the verb 'to be'

Put a like on Eurocom's message​

My question on Youtube was answered today by Eurocom with hopeful caution for the public. There is no crystal ball prediction I'd rather trust than the true Magic ball called on by our most esteemed NBR member, most valuable asset & secret weapon than the Little Bios Mod. Old grouchy Fox is hopefully cautious too

My inbox had two messages; their 1st public comment said the disco ball predicts it 'is' possible, the next was an edit for the conditional use of the verb to be, a guarded qualifier now fit for public predictive consumption: --> it may be possible

@TBōnsan, sneaky Fox & I waged righteous battle in the Snailienware section; we won our football game Sunday against slithery land snailien trolls that celebrated the demise of MXM way too early; using the Eurocom 1070 like a Flutie Magic Hail Mary got us the last second win. The message we broadcast to the trolls: don't celebrate too early / premature ejaculation is a bad thing. Things sound positive towards 1080, but even the best-laid plans of mice & men & snailiens often go awry

"my impression is that they probably have more pull & influence with Clevo than any other distributor"

edit: Put a like on Eurocom's message​

'hey boss, one guy's interested' isn't enough evidence for public support, so get active with me & like their comment to help generate enthusiasm so they'll use that substantial influence as Fox called it ... help me be another straw that breaks this camel's back!

 

Yeah, but the other components aren't as spaced out. Resulting in a much more compact and compatible size.
And if I'm not wrong, the layout seems to be somewhat similar to the 980 DT one. I might be wrong, but I can superimpose and check after work tonight.

 

Right, which is why I said Clevo should have had no problems making them fit lengthwise. But SLI in the DM would require standard width cards.

 

When I was asked for an opinion I voted for a 'GTX980 180W shaped' 1080 (with power connector) and a type-b 1070 (both with SLI support)...

Let's be honest people would kill too many older boards with a b-type 1080.

 

Wait what, I thought with Pascal only the 1070 and up could be used in SLI?

 

It still was an option in the early stages...

 

Not that would let you run SLI in the older chassis.

 

SLI isn't the main concern ATM.

 

My personal suggestion was an MXM-B type 1070 to maintain maximum compatibility with the widest range of models with SLI connector.

 

Either one. The memory layout is the same on all cards (I stand corrected). Since its needed.
But the other components, on the CLEVO cards are way too spaced out. MSI ones have a much more compact design.

 

@Phoenix

I feel the same. We people always disliked bga laptop which cant be upgraded. But look at us. We have a socket laptop which also cant be upgraded anymore and you know what?
We paid more just to get this nonupgradable still-non-bga laptops.

I heard MSI is giving people opportunity to upgrade their 9xx gpu laptop to the new ones. I really miss m17x r4 m18x r2 which was initially released with 580m.