BGA Venting Thread ;)

Sheep are very silent whenever a socketed discussion comes up they get heated up like BGA and shut it down as they love that tech and thus these designs are put forth in the testing, First the Battery Drain on "ALL" BGA machines then came the faux heatfins/ heatsink then this is the new standard tripod b$ no one knows what they are buying, Hahaha where are the BGA Advocates ? Thin and light but want high performance, against physics this is what you will get. Please buy more of them so that next time you will get a fully soldered laptop with thickness like a Macbook Air with GTX1080 SLI - Soldered RAM, Soldered HS, Soldered SSD, Soldered Display, Soldered CMOS, Soldered Battery everything.


I seriously look forward for that day, It's gonna happen soon. Just wait for the outcry and then grab a popcorn, soda and watch the world burn

 

Call it stupid Sunday only rule? Maybe Dell should stop abuse/stealing other people's work?

You forgot to add in SSD overheating I have seen several with this problem. Which is pretty normal for BGA laptops. Soldered welded on hardware means always thinner lighter laptops!! Forget heavy ssd workloads if pretty-thinness is your main goal for your purchase.

 

They only have to run a 1 minute 3d Mark benchmark to get a thumbs up from most of the reviewers.. just make sure to pay no mind to the physics score and soaring temps.

 

They need probably Who Crashed due the 1 minute 3Dmark bench will results in Bsod. Their Epsa diagnosis software doesn't stress the hardware much. I have it in my AW17. A baby girl stress tests who only checks if your machine can run.

 

How comes I only now noticed this awesome thread?

Somebody really got to keep me in loop with things around those parts!

 

@Papusan, why the hell do you care about the P640HK? It isn't even in your target market. You want DTRs, you use a DTR. This notebook is 1/3 the volume and mass of your heavy-as-hell P870KM. It's meant for a different purpose altogether. The fact that it comes with BGA parts is also because it is small. It is not for you, so why do you bother ranting about it?

Plus, the 'triple screw' heatsink mount is not new. The W230ST used it, four years ago:

 

I write about BGA and why this tech sucks... You know what this thread title "BGA Venting Thread" is all about? Info out to the people. Info is KING!! Future buyers must know what all this is about.

Edit. Regarding TRIPOD. See same pict. Cpu is the lost rPGA socket modell and cpu heatsink have all 4 legs intact.

 

They still have that.

 

The P640 series is meant to be more portable, like the AW13, Aorus X3, MSI GS43VR etc. They all have BGA-mounted CPUs and GPUs, and perform decently. Frankly speaking, we have no business in claiming that these machines are not performing up to mark. They perform perfectly fine when stock. Of course, if you want to push the envelope to its very limits, then they aren't, and then you complain about screws and BGA and whatnot? Take a jet airliner and you attempt to do a high-G manoeuvre, and then the wings and horizontal stabilisers fly off, then you complain that it doesn't perform like a fighter jet and your passengers are dead? Airliners are meant for straight and level, not loop-the-loops and Pugachev's Cobras.

Likewise, each machine is built for a specific load. If you exceed that limit, and it throttles, don't complain. The AW13r3, MSI GS43VR and P640HK do well at their stock loads. Value for money is achieved. The Razer Blade Pro is a different story, and calling that one out on its ****ty stock performance, I agree with.

Yeah, no ****, Sherlock... I know. I have that notebook. That's because of the rPGA slot itself. Sort of stupid to have a triple-screw system for the fairly big, square slot. Plus, you and co. like sockets but... Even if the CPU heatsink has four screws and is sockets, it cannot cool a 60 W load on the CPU and thermally throttles. But keep the CPU to 47 W, at stock voltages, and it flies along just fine.

You see, like I said earlier. It isn't because of BGA that something throttles. It is the poor implementation of cooling, the mismatch of hardware power draw with a machine's given volume and ability to dissipate that heat... And sometimes, ill-judged attempts to push a piece of hardware beyond its specified limits.

Problems, which I heard even the better machines like the P870DM have. Doesn't the CPU and GPU in your machines hit 90° C when stock? Compared to any desktop, that's rubbish.

Of all the things you guys think of dissing, you choose the number of screws on a heatsink mount? Seriously???

 

Duplicate.

 

This unwanted Tripod Cpu heatsink design is becoming more common due to the massive use of welded hardware on the motherboard (many weird design).

If you looked at the picture of the test I put in the link...Then you can clearly see that this Kaby BGA 7700hq chips run fully throttling clock speed 2.29GHz and max cpu pacage power around 28.7W. I see you say they perform decently, Oh'well. FYI (This is around 56% of max capacity of this Turd chips). People need to see what this is... Pure Trash!! Info out to the people!!

 

Please stop with the sweeping statements and fiery language. There's no reason for the CPU to throttle. Temps are at 70°C, power usage is roughly half the TDP. VID is 0.8 V. This is strong evidence that all threads in the CPU aren't loaded to 100%, because the AW13 and GS43VR don't have this issue.

 

Sorry, I'm on my phone and can't translate Germane text for you right now. But take a look in the picture. I expect P95 will load the cores to max aka 100%. 7700hq is 45w BGA chips if I remember correct.


Edit: Of course the VID voltage is lower when the BGA chip IS IN FULLY THROTTLING MODE!! What did you expect?

 

Why is it throttling? Power limit? No, power is at 28 W, not even close to the 45 W TDP. Temperature? No, temps are 30°C away to Junction T max... Current limit? 28 W / 0.8 V = 35 A; Kaby Lake CPUs don't have the Haswell current limit bug. Probably not as well. So what is causing the throttling if not the above three?

 

That was better Why pull my conclusion in doubt? Don't do that!! Probably put in a limit on the maximum power draw. Maybe they know that this BGA MACHINE will get serious problems with maximum power draw. And the psu can't deliver enough power for this Turd!! 124w power draw vs. 120w psu is in line with the rest.

 

Whaaaaaaaat?

That looks really awful...

Wanted to ask, what are those dips? Are they normal? This also happens on 6700K for me and I was curious if it is something normal or it only happens for me...

 

You should have fixed your hardware temp as I already have said to you several months ago Time for fully temp fix my good friend.

 

Oh, the dips don't happen due to the temps, I mean those short, temporary dips to 800 MHz . They happen when there is no load, but they can happen under load as well. I'm a bit lost about it.

 

It is a good notebook. There's no need to swear...

Nevertheless... @Stooj, you mentioned you had a friend with this machine. Could you test this out? A CPU running at 2.3 GHz with no thermal throttling whatsoever is really odd...

 

2.3ghz seems embarrassing low. But as Paps mentioned if it comes with a 120w PST there wouldn't be much change left over from the GPU.

 

Not true. The 1050 Ti has a TDP of roughly 60 W. The Core I7-7700HQ has a TDP of 47 W. 107 W from a 120 W adaptor should be no hassle at all, especially when an OC GTX 860M and an OC Core I7-4710MQ can run at full tilt off the adaptor with no issue.

 

I hear you. But if this BGA MACHINERY already have implemented a power cap for max power draw in firmware or MB... Nothing will help this Turd to work as intended for its hardware. And this Joke will only work as designed!!

 

Also the Laptop components power draw there's not just a CPU and GPU now add that tinny adapter It's pretty normal joke that machine is running full-throttle LOL due to the Mobo hardcap, Still even if it runs doesn't matter as the heatsink is trash grade also a 7700HQs JOKE turbos/trash voltage binning it has..worse than Haswell BGA turbos. Meh waste of time talking about this BGA Turdbook.

 

Er... What? This notebook doesn't need a huge heatsink like the P870KM or even the P650HP. It has a 1050 Ti, for heaven's sake... And 120 W is plenty for the config that this laptop has.

That's what I said a lot earlier. Your target market is a huge, power-hungry, inefficient, loud, heavy, desktop-replacement notebook. This is a lithe 14" notebook meant to be slid into a messenger bag and used on the go. There is ZERO comparison. Why do you waste your time?

This notebook is almost meant to use BGA (I'd like to see an LGA socket and the PCH stuffed into a 14" chassis—tell me when it has happened; also, we can't talk about rPGA because there is no more rPGA to talk about), so why do you worry? It's like what I said earlier. You guys take thin and light notebooks and force a huge load on them, it's not going to work well.

This circlejerk is almost becoming a joke. I've got a question. Do you guys get high when you rant about a notebook like this, and call it a 'turdbook' while jerking your E-wieners just because 'hurr durr look at me, me has a Core i7-7700K and 64000 GB 10 GHz DDR400 RAM and GTX 1080 SLI OC and beats every puny little thing in the world'????????

 

Right.. I was under the impression it had a 1060. Ok.. it may have enough and could just be gimped by design. Alienware pulled stuff like this on the Alienware 18 and the m17x before they went full ham.
BGA has it's place in certain applications, but the contempt for it in expensive units is fully justified. And with Apple pushing the 'right to repair' legislation with other big manufacturers jumping on board - sh#t just got real, I'd say 'told you so'. BGA doesn't end well for all of us.
People need to stop taking it personally, it's a machine.

 

It is never personal

Only joy and happiness should exist for everybody!

BGA surely has its place. It is just that the top end of electronics should not praise BGA. Especially when someone buying them might render stuff and such. Especially heavy duty FHD and 4K renders. Especially when some people really need to powa.

But if someone needs portability, it is a thing to start with; As for price / performance ratio, there should be a line after which they start putting socketed hardware from. Like really should be a point after which BGA is considered not okay. For example, a 5000$ laptop should not come with BGA. No. That's just. No. At that price you can build desktop + monitor + all peripherials + audiophile headphones + gaming chair + gaming desk. Placing a BGA CPU at that price point might not be absolutely okay...

 

To explain what I mean: Clevo is not as popular as other brands that only sell BGA. Say, a professional might need the most power he can get but doesn't really have the time to read and all - they could end with a BGA and not be happy with it and never even know that there was a much better option available.

 

Quite exceptional when people defend the trash, although it contains BGA chips who can not even hold their own maximum Turbo Boost, in something as simple as Single Core Rendering. 7700hq "should" run 3.8GHz on a single core.


Nor is approved when this low end chips throttles in this Jokebook down to 2.79GHz when the cpu really should run 3,4GHz in games.

 

Do you feel that it might also be the BIOS inside those macines? Like the chips themselves could stand a chance but the produces cripple them? P775 with default BIOS is quite crippled as well, especially after some stress (?)

 

Yes of course, the firmware is also a cause. But the machine would most likely anyway throttle, if the chips could run at maximum TDP. What I react to... Why defend something like this and same time say that this is decent.

 

You can always buy a better adapter . OEM adapter barely deliver enough of power for notebook
I bought 150W Dell Slim Adapter for my 14" Clevo W230SS (45W Haswell + 75W Maxwell) . Now my notebook can overclock like a charm . The original 120W adapter is crap , it makes my laptop shut down randomly when overclocking
I can't believe they would be that stupid to use 120W adapter on a i7 7700HQ + 1050Ti

 

This is a good solution which increasing doesn't work with locked down BIOSs.

 

They used a 120W one on a 9300QX + 280M 45+75+OC and it worked fine.

 

I understood that I was making the point that using a bigger PSU doesn't always give the machine access that extra power depending on the machine/BIOS etc

 

I push 175w in 3DM11 physics test from 120W PSU Low powered fully locked down 7700hq and 1050Ti should have more than enough power from 120w PSU.

 

Oh, I see now.

Well, I owned BGA for over 10 years before P775. From i5-450 and many other CPUs in laptops from a wide array of producers.

I know you are right about this and BGA was pretty awful for me. Even Clevo with their default BIOS was quite bad.

BGA just are not adequate for certain tasks.

If someone really doesn't need the powa, it's better for them but as a power user, it was quite disappointing to see that a 4710hq still had quite a few problems, and it throttled. Like... it reached 100C on Acer Aspire VN-7-791, to the point where it would shut down. Just from moderate gaming

 

Just found this.

This thread will love this whole article.

There is no information about the product, no CPU, no GPU, no price, no RAM, nothing! The article mentions a 1 inch thickness. People really need to stop calling a 1" thick laptop a gaming laptop. They are slim machines which would probably pass acceptably as strong office notebooks but really really really it is a bad idea to keep proposing the idea of thiness on laptops. IT just hurts everyone, makes people wish or think they wish thin machines then they hurt when the machine is not performing well. Like really. Encapsulating the whole motherboard is also really bad since it permits like zero upgrades, zero everything...

The more they push the BGA and the more they push it in the higher prices, the more of a problem it is for us... It's not even about just whether it is strong or not at this point. The simple idea that they're pursing thiness and flashy office notebooks is giving me an itch. Romanian buying power is low as it is and idk, it is just wrong to sell the hard working people something that could had been better and could had been more serviceable.

Link to the article in question

http://www.pcgamer.com/all-the-powe...source=facebook&utm_campaign=buffer_pcgamerfb

 

Oh, but, it's so-o-o-o cute. Like a bug on a rug.

 

@Mr. Fox and @Georgel, why don't you guys get it? The Inspiron notebook isn't in your target market. Its height is certainly enough to cool the components it has (GTX 1050 Ti + i7-7700HQ), and these are specs that don't even deserve socketed components because they are neither valuable nor powerful enough. It's for people who want to play stuff like DOTA, CSGO, Overwatch, and perhaps occasionally Civ, don't care about the occasional performance decrease, don't have enough money for a P870DM, don't even want a P870DM, and don't give two flying hoots that they haven't got powerful enough specs to run the latest benchmarks (and waste electricity). They, unlike everyone else here—occasionally myself included—just want a notebook to play games on, at decent frame-rates (GTX 1050 Ti ≈ GTX 970M; that is a GPU with performance that could be found on a P750ZM 1.5 years ago and is now on a laptop half the height and weight).

Oh, and this notebook is dirt-cheap for its specs. The price? $750. I would buy this notebook, if not for Ryzen and Vega/Navi.

I say again what I said before:

 

Duplicate.

 

Brother and sister Who is the big boy? It's time Mr. Dell merge its gaming division in a single brand... DELL

 

red = only aesthetic
blue = actual heatsink

fake heatsink look cool and big!

 

Pretty familiar. It's most likely Dell use the same design team. Alienware is Dell as you know. Or should we say the opposite. I think so.

 

@Ionising_Radiation I guess for the same reasons BGA lovers don't get it. Because this the the BGA venting thread and venting is healthy... especially when something as vile as this cancer has metastsized and destroyed almost everything we hold dear. I will never stop hating on the notion of BGA in something liars and shysters are pitching as high performance. That is misrepresentation and deception. It might not be so bad if they presented it accurately as a low budget compromiser option rather than something amazing. These lies and deceptive marketing stunts need to stop. It's not right. Perhaps they are concerned that it would not be as successful if they were honest about its shortcomings, and that would be further evidence of misrepresentation.

Edit: see above example of deception and misrepresentation. Shameful. They had space for something better, made it look like something better, but wimped out... again.

If these compromiser products had all of the appropriate disclaimers and disclosures about their capabilities, or lack thereof, they would not sell nearly as many and they know that.

 

That's not a fake heatsink. How do you know that's the case without even owning the notebook? Those fins are simply painted red, and they're continuous with what you've circled blue. See, this is what I mean. If you didn't like the P640HK so much, why not diss it in the Owners' Lounge itself, or that of its predecessor, the P640RE? Likewise for the Inspiron 7567... Instead everyone comes to this echo-chamber of like a dozen people and rant and rave and vent (oh, yeah, it's healthy, right) and honestly, no one outside this place cares.

People read this, and they go: "yeah, yeah, dude, blah blah blah, whatever, I don't care man. You sound like you're getting a heart attack. I got it cheap, it does what I want it to do, I like it, full stop. You, on the other hand, appear to care too much about my laptop, maybe you're jealous that yours is thick and fat, heavy and loud, and mine is thin and quiet, and I can actually move it?" This is sometimes what goes thorugh my mind when I read some of the posts here. A relevant .gif of what I think happens to you guys when you call BGA 'cancer' (Seriously? Have you all no wider a vocabulary besides 'cancer', 'castrated', 'jokebook', 'turdbook', etc.? It's quite funny, really...)


TL;DR: shut up, it's getting annoying. I understand that you don't like the implementation of soldered components in ultra-high-end notebooks, but you have absolutely no right to diss notebooks that aren't in your target market (anything smaller than 15", thinner than 3 cm and cheaper than $1200—e.g. the Clevo notebook mentioned earlier by @Papusan and now this) and are priced entirely correctly for the components they contain. I say again: the notebook mentioned by @Georgel is entirely worth its price. For $750, one can achieve 1080p 60 FPS in many games that one couldn't with that sort of price this time last year.

P.S. that notebook can even maintain 3.4 GHz on all cores when stressed to its max:

 

That works both ways, silly goose. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. I'm here to stay and I'm not going to stop giving hell to BGA feces... EVER. So, get used to it, stop stressing out about the fact that some of us do not mince words and call a spade a spade... Or make yourself an LGA venting thread to piss and moan about this thread, LOL. Stop pooping on our carpet. I don't go crap on the floor in all of the turdbook threads, so be a good little boy and extend the same favor to us. Kapish?

 

Sounds legit. And who's starting the name-calling now? 'Silly goose'? And honestly, you can 'not mince words and give hell to BGA faeces' as you call it (once again, the vocabulary repeats), but who the hell cares? I don't, for one. People will still buy these machines; they will use it for three, four, maybe five years, and that's where they see the value in it. Who are you to dictate what is valuable, worth and what isn't? Value is subjective, so all your huffery and puffery is just that—hot air.

 

Cool. Sounds like we have a mutual understanding. Have a nice day.

Before you go, please clarify something. Is 3.4GHz on all cores supposed to be an accomplishment? If reads like something else, so just wanted to double-check the thought process.

 

No, the users here tend to vent that a P95 + FurMark run on notebooks end up making the CPU throttle like hell (which isn't even a realistic load: like I said earlier, you can make a jet airliner do Pugachev's Cobras, but that doesn't mean you should), so I was making the point that no, this notebook, by their definition, is actually 'performing up to mark'. Also, I'm not going anywhere. Next, see edit above.

 

We are all nobodies. All of us. You're only OK with it because you like the dung that they are offering. If all that was available was powerful DTR notebooks with only two turdbooks to choose from you would be in the same place we are.

But, I will always dictate what is valuable from my own perspective, and mine is the only one that I care about. Thank goodness I do, because most of the OEMs do not. I will plant as many land mines in the path of the OEMs selling trash as possible. It may not stop them, but I'll take a pound of their flesh anywhere I can, as often as I can. If one person can turn only one person against it, then it is worth all the effort. If the one turned against it does the same, the BGA hate will continue to grow and spread. Not going to take it in the bo-bo lying down and pretend I like it. The whining from the Kool-Aid drinkers that do not like the criticism of BGA garbage it is just a side benefit.

OK thanks for clarifying that. So, the bar is set very low, right where they want it. Got it.

You're totally welcome to stay, but just so you know, the anti-BGA beatings will continue until morale improves.