BGA Venting Thread ;)

That is just so cute!

Someone has to do this once in a while as they are idk, not even trying anymore. They just paint them and say, Gotta sell them to the gamer public.

That looks interesting.

There is no heat transfer between the smaller add-on and the main heatsink?

At this point it surely is questionably why not just make it longer instead....

This is entirely true!

Those are low end to average multimedia notebooks or good office notebooks, not gaming notebooks and most surely should be advertised as gaming or anything like that.

The problems they bring with their tech are quite obvious, not to mention that the whole - entire thing is soldered - thing is really awful.

Even P775 is kinda weak in its Clevo factory form, and here I am talking about people buying those to run VMs, to design games, to do freaking photoshop! On 6700K, 4.0 GHz, some effects in photoshop can take a few seconds to demo then even a bit more to render when you're working with 10k x 10k images.

Those BGA machines have limitations that a buyer should know about and understand, the problem is about being well informed.

Now, you are correct for the most part as well. They are not meant for us, but this is a BGA bashing thread, like made for this purpose.

For 750$ it is fully soldered. I don't really say that it didn't improve performance per dollar, but 750$ is not a few but quite a lot in some countries, take Romania.

Someone spending 750$ in Romania might not know or understand what he is getting into. 750$ in here is already photograppher budget or professionall budget. Your example shows what the problem is. 98C and thermal throttling reached on the example setup. Imagine this happening on every PS render step or God forbid a PS crash.

Not to mention about parallel running software and such.

Seriously not blaming people for selling them or making them, but the way they are made to look like the next big thing is idk, toxic. It is lying to the customers, especially if an expert needs one.

Romania has one of the worst warranties in the whole world for brand products. Really really really bad. The fact that now the motherboard is soldered doesn't help one bit. They're making those laptops more and more as a one time - consumable - that you throw out after usage. This is what I am against. I am sorry, but Romania is not the best place to do this. Like at all. Romanian Minimum wage is literally under 300$. Can you say that 750$ is okay to be sold as a BGA in this case? In fact leave alone the fact that it is BGA, lets take it up with the fact they're soldered. Once it breaks, Romanian waranty will return it full of scratches, there's no one to argue with, you're left with anger and bitterness. Romanian warranty and technical support have no idea what optimus is....

In other countries, where you have 700$ - 1000$ minimum wage, it is something else.

In other order of ideas, I dislike Optimus almost as much as @Mr. Fox hates BGA.

Totally understandable why Optimus would be something useful, totally unacceptable to include it after a price and performance point. Especially when it adds to the present time of each frame. You have about 16 ms to render a frame, without optimus, the present time is ~0,1 ms, while with Optimus, it is ~1-3 ms... you see why especially on 1050 and 1060 it might be a problem. The barely render the frames in time, and you add optimus and then dropped frames happen...

 

Fight fire with fire...

 

And this is why I'm here.

Laptop name: Ultrabook DELL XPS 13 9360

13.3", 7500U. Freaking U!!! and of course, no GPU.

The cost, 1550 USD

IDK. I just don't know anymore. I was annoyed at the past article because I find it poor reviewing / poor journalism to not include any data to an article, but seeing this XPS in my mail as I receive those news papers for what is on sale... It is just sad.

What's even more funny. This XPS with 7500U costs 1550$. But this cost is reduced. It was 1950$ before...

Actually, it is not even funny. How? Why? Who buys it?

@Ionising_Radiation , look, you can totally keep the one with 1050 ti as being okay for 750$. For that one, maybe it can make a few happy, but what about the one described above? It is not defendable....

This is why I love this thread! It is just so fun! Honestly, it is fun to see all this.

 

Back in the day, Linda Hamilton = <3

Didn't the T-800 have a BGA processor, too?

 

Yes sir... (on the <3 part)

T800 runs on Ryzen 1800x

 

T1000 has liquid metal cooling at least.

 

Why should they? Do it properly cost money. And a lot of People Who buy it don't understand tech.

One of my reason to post my info and pointing out there is better options.

No one Bashing BGA. Only pointing out that this unwanted tech should be used in tablet, smartphones or Ruters. Not in laptops intended for power.

The main reason for similar and this thread... Info out to the people. Not all know they are or will be screwed. People who have the knowledge need to share it!! And we do it.

Same as above.

Not so funny if you are screwed and don't see the pure facts. Nothing funny with BGA!! Only a tragedy!!

See above. A lot of people don't understand tech. Some even knew they are screwed but let it go with open eyes. Sad.

 

Yes, and potentially a rather serious tragedy for the uninformed shopper. I think that probably represents a high percentage of them as well.

 

Really high percentage.

 

I will continue to give out correct information. As I always have done. Proper Info is still the only way future buyers don't fall into the BGA trap and go back home with trash!!

 

Alright, so tell me, then, if you guys think you're the only informed buyers of notebooks on this planet—how are you going to convince someone who simply can't afford a notebook with non-BGA parts, to spend three to four times his budget to buy such a notebook, given that the cheapest new LGA notebook today is likely the P750DM? Why would you even attempt to force someone else to buy more than what he/she wants to spend, just because you think they're ignorant/uninformed (and if they insist that they want a cheap notebook, then they're stupid and sheep)? There simply aren't any notebooks with replaceable components at a price point below roughly $2000, give or take (and please don't cherry pick on this approximate price, it is a ballpark estimate). You claim that above $500, all components should be replaceable.

For the longest time, unless the notebook in question was obscenely thin, nearly everything except the CPU and GPU could be upgraded. And honestly speaking, there is no real point in throwing on a better CPU in a five-year-old board, or a better GPU, because it is likely that the new CPUs are more efficient and faster anyway, and the PCIe bandwidth would probably be a massive bottleneck, given that the PCIe standards are updated roughly every five years or so.

I like how @Mr. Fox thinks he can go against several multi-billion dollar companies by ranting on a forum. Like I said earlier: I think using BGA on top-end components is wrong, but calling notebooks that simply don't need sockets is being plain stubborn and highly generalising.

I commend the actions, but if you really want to make a change, I suggest you get degrees in both law and computer science and engineering, write a petition and file it officially, create a Kickstarter to fund it and then gather support. I assure you that you're literally hooting a trumpet in an empty room by ranting about this here, for everyone here whom you already know, just to agree with you. This single thread is the biggest echo-chamber I've seen, and I've seen Reddit.

 

In the end , BGA's gonna rule everything , like how they did with non-removable battery which i hate so much . I don't want it to explode in front of my face like a galaxy note 7 , I never plug battery unless i go outside . Now every single notebook comes with non-removable **** , GPU is fine but CPU too ??? . Back in the day , you can upgrade i5 480M to i7 640M to give your notebook more life ...You guy can keep complaining but it's not like manufacturer care about your opinions , they do care about $$$ though
If your laptop was broken , instead of repairing it , you would have to buy a new one (because mobo replacement would cost as much as new laptop) and that would bring them more $$$

 

But that is the problem... It is all weighting on us in the end.

I agree 'bout the batteries...

I might take a different action when I have a good plan put in place. Right now, even Clevo makes laptops that are bad ex-factory.

The point was that you simply don't want to feed people the lie that everything's okay. You want to increase awareness. Brother @Mr. Fox and Brother @Papusan are good at increasing awareness through the population and this is good. It helps slightly even out the things.

Some people don't even know what BGA is, what Optimus is, and the knowledge is not so easily accessible to the public, the whole point is also increasing the curiosity to document. @Mr. Fox does a really neat job as he mentions something that potentials buyers did not know and they start reading. This is something that helps.

Not everyone needs or has the money to buy something expensive, the whole point is to make the buyer question what he buys and why. To understand his own needs and expectations out of a product.

 

Brother @Georgel BGA usually means thin flimsy machines. Then you risk something similar to this below. Not a pretty sight. What if you push these ssd's to max in dayly heavy workload? SSD's gets boiled in the ALIENWARE ECHO Books...

 

So far I have a hard time finding any fautls in my BGA gaming laptop. It has actually performed beyond expectations.

There is frankly only one LGA laptop I would consider a seriously as an upgrade, the 16L13 with a GTX1080. But I don't think that upgrade is even close to worthwhile at this point.

CPU and GPU performance are not really the weakest link right now - it is the display technology that is really lacking. An LGA system with the same display I have now would be an underwhelming upgrade...

 

I mean, I haven't done anything else buy bought a SSD and installed it in P775. It is pretty much the way it came ex-factory in this aspect.

A bit worried that I had 7000 GB writes so far, but nothing else to say. It idles at a said temperature of 30C while my CPU idles at 50C and my GPU at 40C.

A SSD pushed to 80C is just not healthy....

Not every single BGA is bad, but you're still lost if something in the entire motherboard breaks, the whole thing needs to be replaced. But if you're happy with it, that is all that matters!

The problem is with this whole trend!!! Why are they pushing the size constraints way above what is physically possible? Who in this world even cares for a thin laptop?! Like really! I don't care for my phone to be thin. My FiiO X5-2 is 15mm thick and I love it. I want my laptop tobe as thick as it needs to be, be it BGA, rPGA or LGA. The whole point of BGA dismissing is that they want to solder the whole thing and they are doing it for the false perception that we want those things thinner. Whoever asks for thin laptops should get one, but it is really really really not okay to ask for both thinness and gaming abilities. Like not okay. No.

If someone makes a BGA laptop that won't throttle and has a decent price, it is just a matter of understanding the implications with warranty, but if someone makes a BGA laptop that throttles and is flimsy only for the sake of fashion, that kinda is a problem and a buyer should know what he is getting into...

This being said, I am not a beats headphone fan either and I think that Sennheiser HD800S and Meze 99 Classics are sexy headphones.





I like things that feel professional, elegant, high quality. If a gaming laptops needs to be thick, it should totally be thick!

Serviceability of a product is important, we should take this into account when making a purchase. The BGA laptops that are glued together and cannot be opened are the problem. There are decent ones as well, but it is like playing Russian roulette. I had no idea about the problems Vn7-791G had before owning it. Same with P775. Big review sites are not like headphone reviews, where yow know what you're getting yourself into. Laptop big review sites can tell a laptop is well and good and then you discover that it has certain problems that nobody told about. This is why it is best to avoid risky technology.

 

Underwhelming based on how you use it, in a scenario where performance is not the most important factor. The performance capabilities of the LGA systems literally dwarfs the BGA models. Form factors aside, the differences are not small by any means. They are huge. If that does not matter, it only means that it is something you do not view as being important. To others it might be the single most important aspect of the product, to the extent is makes or breaks the deal.

 

Thin laptops are sexy but still heavy af
My LGA laptop : Clevo W230SS only weighs 5 pounds (2.3kg) and it's still thin in my opinion , the lightest BGA laptop : Clevo N850HK1 weighs 5.5 pounds which is definitely heavier and bigger than my old laptop
I believe clevo went for BGA because they can reduce the cost for making parts , not because they can make laptop thinner or lighter that way
Edit : it's 4.6 pounds (2.1kg) , not 5 pounds , my mistake

 

I have a place for thin/small/light stuff. I use it ever time I ' drop the kids at the pool' (slang expression for going poop). When I need it, I reach for this, and it meets my needs in the scenarios where it meets my needs. It meets my needs in the scenarios where it meets my needs well enough that my wife has one as well. But, her uses are different than mine. She likes touch displays and I loathe them enough that I do everything possible to avoid using touch if another input option is available to me.

 

Lol , maybe you should buy GPD Win for her instead , it's smaller but much faster . At least it can run Windows , office stuffs and some PC games like Crysis , Skyrim...
It has built-in keyboard , gamepad and even a touch screen...
I don't like tablets , most of them run hot because tablet doesn't have a fan

 

Full power is the first most important factor for me!

Especially when working with rendeeeeeering! That things is the one most heavy thing a computer can do...

Totally understandable that it won't be for everybody though as everyone has their own constraints

 

It's way too expensive. For $300 you can get a normal sized BGA turdbook. The GPD Win device also looks ridiculous (my personal opinion). It reminds me of a portable DVD movie player. It should also have a 1920*1080 display for $300.

For only $50 for a Fire 7 tablet that can be rooted for free and used like a normal tablet/phablet. This is the right price for us. I don't mind paying $50 for a BGA piece of crap like the Fire... it represents great value because it is so ridiculously cheap. If it stops working I can simply remove the SD card and throw the rest in the trash without feeling any pain over the loss. This is the appropriate use of BGA.

Me, too. Where it concerns high quality/high performance notebooks, this trumps everything else by such a huge margin that it is almost qualifies as the only thing that matters. Socketed CPU and GPU are non-negotiable pre-requisites, and if those are not present then I immediately scratch the product off of my list of viable options. The other features are dismissed as being totally irrelevant at that point... not worthy of further consideration under any circumstances.

 

Give a damn about the size and rather go for something cheaper like $150 bucks. 14 inches is still larger than the biggest smartphone. And you save $150 bucks. Or buy two

 

Well I care about gaming performance and so far I haven't found anything to complain about except for the display.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

Just gonna leave this here. Comedy. Because this thread can be a funny thread

 

That is funny, and possibly some irony since many of the MacBook owners I know are anti-gun goofballs. Thanks for sharing.
(Notice is said 'many' not 'all' as there are a few that seem normal. So, I am not stereotyping them all as undesirables.)

 

Those trying to bootcamp on the 2GB macbook airs are certainly feeling it now.

 

Here's another fun way

 

YEAH! Now that there's a man's man BB gun. MBP didn't stand a chance.

 

Hehehe...I said this multiple times over 60 pages ago. Basically to start up a Kickstarter to get backing and go to an ODM (Clevo or MSI) to build a socketed machine from the ground up. But that would require actual effort

I've actually got a WIN and it has a very specific purpose/niche. It's targeted very specifically as a pocket emulation/gaming platform (I also use it as a pocket terminal/ssh thing for work purposes). If you weren't interested in previous machines of it's type (GPD XD, Pandora, GP2X etc) then you probably won't "get it".
As for the 720p screen choice was also chosen for usability since Windows will literally not scale a 1080p screen correctly at 5.5". I can tell you 720p@200% DPI is already very much on the edge readability issues. Also has the added benefit of being much easier on performance.

It does have some pretty ripper battery life though. I can pull around 6 hours out of it on most lighter emulators and 8-9 hours if I'm just web browsing.

 

Google has now developed first stable Chrome version so BGA hardware can get a little more breathing room
Chrome 57: throttling of background tabs begins

"The motivation behind the change is that some pages consume a lot of CPU when they are in the background. Google mentions JavaScript advertisements and analytics scripts explicitly but it is not limited to that."

 

Dude, why would you want cycle stealing background tabs to take CPU, memory, and GPU resources away from your active focus?

I have been using "The Great Suspender" for a long time to keep Chrome tabs offline and "Suspend Tab" on Firefox.

Try it, you might like it

 

Do those allow you to choose which tabs remain online/go offline?

 

I miss Opera before it became Chrome's shadow. Cyberfox is a nice fork, though. Thanks for the mention about those addons, @hmscott!

Wait, I mean... "BOOO BGA!! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!"

 

That's the idea, you configure by tab / site which are active and which aren't. They unload locally and go idle. I have some tabs never go offline if they don't behave correctly after coming back when suspended.

Different extensions have different behaviors / options, so check out a few if available.

I'd check out the new Chrome options first, before trying an extension, if Chrome has the features now.

 

I will. I keep switching browsers and really should just settle on one.

 

Also the desktop machines can stay quieter during idle

 

I haven't a heat problem. And my machine is pretty quiet in use.



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Btw Bro @Raiderman Twist on my posts

 

True. Though I'm already pretty quiet as it is with my current desktop.

 

@Papusan - "BGA turd chips" cracks me up!

 

Yup... if it looks like a turd, smells like a turd and runs like a turd, it's a turdbook.

To those that haven't read all of the preceding 740 posts, here it is, in a nutshell...

The effort to make soldered CPUs and graphics chips in notebooks the status quo is extremely disturbing to enthusiasts and power users. It is clearly a profit-driven, self-serving agenda that represents the opposite of innovation. It costs customers more by complicating service and repairs and facilitates the sale of new products through forced obsolescence. It merely adds insult to injury that the soldered mobile processors are typically poor samples that underperform and have artificially imposed performance limitations that their socketed desktop processors do not.

There is a fantastic opportunity for AMD to be extremely disruptive by supporting deployment of the Ryzen 1800X on mobile platforms to fill the massive void that Intel is creating. Intel and NVIDIA need to understand that there is a growing segment of customers that care about results far more than branding, and they are deliberate in their efforts to influence the thought processes of others for the greater good. Both companies need to get in front of this, adjust their approach, and set a plan in motion to meet expectations if they wish for their brands to remain relevant to this customer segment.

 

LOL. Yeah I know, but it's the correct name

 

You and fox need a thread where you just one-up each other on creative bodily function descriptions for BGA. It would be entertaining.

 

It would also be another place for cry-babies to whine that don't like it. And, that would add greatly to the entertainment value.

Maybe we could call it the **Official BGA Filth Derogatory Naming Convention Submission Thread** to help spread the word that BGA is digital fodder for compromisers and trash-lovers.

 

An unfiltered BGA thread after my desire on my first language, would be a little bit much for the faint hearted. Would be a All time high thread

 

This is the exact statement of why BGA is bad.

Leaving alone all the joking around we do, this is how we would best define the problem!

The whole shift towards a market where laptops are consumables is really bad for power users, especially when there are laptops costing over 1000$ on the market. I would gladly accept anything that is under 1000$ as BGA since for its lifetime it should serve the buyer quite well. But anything above that price is insanity.

 

I meant the desktop CPU notebooks but my fault for not putting it clearer

 

To be fair I should probably have thought of that.

 

You know producers and sellers start to be out of touch with reality when they bundle together things that don't fit...

How is this even possible?

Not even talking about how idiotic the setup seems to me given the i7- U processor. U!

But they bundle this together with Just Cause 3, Halo Wars and Dreadnaught. There are good chances that this setup cannot play either in any decent conditions... How did they decide that this makes a bundle I wonder? I don't mean that they shouldn't make bundles, but the hardware is a mess and they throw in things that cannot even run on the system. At least if they bundled games that would run smoothly.

Laptop HP Pavilion Intel Core Skylake i7-6500U 500GB 4GB nVidia GeForce 940MX 4GB