BGA Venting Thread ;)

I know I see a difference with large DB operations too, but not much in day to day. That said I don't like having a lot of tabs open at once, so I haven't really tried it out with a lot.

 

With lighter tasks you are usually limited by storage performance.

 

once you have optane its limited by software and user efficiency

 

Those will always be the main bottlenecks going forward

 

bga TDP power limit, these people are buying into their lies, silly silly consumers.

 

That's people just not understanding base clock vs turbo. "Peak marketing" is nothing new and its not going anywhere. The changes Intel have made with CFL in not advertising per-core turbo will not change anything.


All the successfully entrenched evil in the world relies on a perfect circle of blameshifting:

Consumers deny responsibility for bad choices by saying retailers and manufacturers don't advertise honestly

Retailers deny responsibility saying consumers don't research their needs, so choose badly, and then complain; and they also just advertise what the manufacturer tells them to.

Manufacturers deny responsibility saying its the retailers job to interface with individual consumers and inform and help them choose the right product

 

when theres many parties involved, usually a good consumer will need to do as much research as possible for best outcome, prepare for the worst hope for the best mindset. when multiple incompetent parties are involved, disaster bound to happen and consumer is strictly relying on luck and hoping for the best while prepared none.

however in all of this, i would say intel is the worst by limiting chip with a TDP otherwise would not honor defects or returns from OEM/ODM if they do not follow intel's specified design, which intel get to have controls over their own product. this is no longer my product, I get to do what i want, it becomes my product, intel/OEM decides what I can do with it.

imagine you bought a 18" extra large pizza with 8 slices and they tell you, you could only eat a slice per day.

 

In the exact same way, would you expect a car manufacturer to 100% honour the warranty on a car engine without asking any questions, if you chipped it or say increased the turbo pressure from the base level? Or is the argument that you should be able to do what you want with the CPU/engine/pizza, but if you push it to the point of failure or causing MB failure then you wouldn't specifically expect Intel to honour the warranty (directly or indirectly)?

 

the idea of pushing it to cause item damage and businesses protecting themselves stem from dishonest consumers, and of course intel's own corporate greed. intel could have done many reasonable things for consumers but choose the path of lowering product quality. things aren't so black and white so in the end business dont bother caring so much, they just want to make money, pair up with bunch of junk consumers and we have a market thats going down hill for enthusiast.

a simple example, controlling clock speed with their specified TDP. intel can easily lay out details from all angle, how consumer benefit, how OEM benefit, how intel benefit from their own changes, of course they won't do that, almost no business does except for few personally owned small business that actually cares about customer service. this is also why HID probably so amazing in this day and age they are rare/hard to come by.

 

Cars with performance not in mind I would somehow understand.

But gaming laptops like Clevos are advertised like Ferrari.

 

Did they lower product quality, because (or not) of dishonest customers? The obvious indicator of this would be a higher RMA rate, which we haven't seen.

Well, the TDP has a limit and this is part of dictating the clock speed of the CPU - that's correct. But tbh I don't understand the argument - Intel CPUs have always had a TDP, which has a part in the clock speeds.

By default, smaller companies should/would give better support than much larger ones. But these smaller companies, when successful, become larger companies and then it's impossible to keep up witht he same level of support. Remember the South Park episode, where everyone hates Starbucks, but they started out as a single coffee shop which grew because of it's popularity. At some point, there is a change and you can't produce something like an Intel CPU in a small or family run company with the huge volume that the market demands ;-)

Yup, but my question still stands - would you then buy a Ferrari and expect them to honour the warranty if it was modified?

 

i wont bother going back a few yrs of changes just so i can explain my side of view, that would be too much work. lets just say intel can change the meaning of their specification and term anyway they want as they currently dominate the market.

 

Any pizza can be a personal pizza if you try hard enough...and acknowledge that it's not a good idea to eat that much pizza at once and promise not to blame the pizza place if you ignore serving recommendations, eat too much and get sick. Doesn't have the same ring to it.

 

for enthusiast, or fat people for pizza LOL u'd want to eat it and self restrain.

 

And now I'm comparing dieting to undervolting in my mind.

 

You can see some of these clock changes either way, mostly you have to compare like to like. So long as say 4 core clocks are always going up at a steady rate and the single core is going up quicker then it's just being more efficient with the power space you have to work with.

 

get ready boys for premium i9 which use to be i7 HK without having to fork out extra. back in the days 7820HK and 6820HK was lower priced against their counter part 6980HQ 7920HQ or w/e the sku was. now, https://wccftech.com/intel-coffee-lake-mobile-desktop-8th-gen-cpus-leak/

intel knows this decided to milk the HK by calling it i9 though desktop side of thing people just paid normal. let intel control it, slow brainwash happens. sugar coat it or try to reason with it however much ones want, which all are true in 1 way, in the end doesn't change the fact that intel trying to milk more.

 

i'd love to see some i9 6 cores HK bga benching against 8700k in 870TM. @Ionising_Radiation @Danishblunt something gotta realize that once you hit a stable clock, to gain any additional score and tweaking takes a lot of effort to find the optimal settings, which in a way is fun for overclocking, say if i find a 4.9ghz i can use it 24/7 as long as temps allow, which is what im running on right now.

also, this would be impossible if not for unlocked bios. pls dont say something like bios don't matter!

 

What the ****?
BGA HK chip running stock on 4.8ghz single core performance and 4.3ghz performance on 45W TDP? Yeah no, I need to see that with my own eyes to believe that. If the I9 is actually that efficient, then everyone who bought a 8700K are being scammed by intel. So I'll refrain from believing that before I see it with my own eyes, because if everything is true, notebook I9's would be more powerful than Desktop PC's with mediocre cooling and a 8700K, since it would mean that the I9 would rather easily get to 5ghz+ on MSI systems with good cooling for instance.

 

its known that intel will likely NOT limit their HK chip even if it shows 45w TDP spec, where as rest of their other SKUs already limited, we can be sure of this with past information skylake and kabylake mobile, both the HK doesn't have limit unless imposed by ODM/OEM which if they aren't smart enough to know HK is meant to overclock they may very well still design bios/heatsink based off the 45 limit, 95%+ will still happen.

i9 won't go to 5ghz, i'd say best with 6 cores overclock it'll be at around 4.5ghz which is still impressive due to 14nm++. heat will be the primary factor, intel needed to change that 45w to something like 60w so ODM/OEM would build a laptop based off of that.

im glad im not always "seeing believing", otherwise i'd never be able to pull the trigger on 870TM. though i did gamble a 5.2 sample from SL and this is my first time seeing how it fairs inside a laptop, a 5ghz with modded bios is definitely doable for regular consumer tasks with auto fan profile, which is pretty damn quiet. iirc you told me your standards for cpu is below 85C right? mine is below 80C so you can believe it runs cool.

 

I am aware of the "non limit", I'm talking about the rated 45W TDP for stock 4.8ghz single and 4.3ghz multi, which would make it waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy to efficient to be true.
Also, again, I've had plenty of people, including mr.fox spout nonsense how their systemsreach 5ghz and runs cool only to see when doing gaming on crysis 3 for instance seeing the CPU clock down to 4.2ghz with 88-90c. So unless you can show me in form of a gaming or other benchmark video with clockspeed and temps running, I won't believe you. That simple.

 

no, it is true and thats just how good 14nm++ is. looking at desktop comparison you'd get an idea about mobile silicon as well. 7700k best binned chip was 5.2ghz for 8% tested chips as per SL, 8700k for 5.2 is 12% and 4% can do 5.3ghz.

this implies that going from 14nm+ to 14nm++ we see an almost +100mhz along with 2 more cores. 100mhz+ is not entirely accurate as 8% to 4% is like half the chips, but note these chips also added 2 more cores which normally mean higher voltage, and means less overclocking due to heat and voltage.

when 10nm++ come out we can probably expect 5ghz to be norm, i'd love to have a 5.4ghz chip with 8 cores running at 5.1 in a laptop

 

We all would love 5ghz stable with acceptable temps in a notebook without carrying cooling pads etc. with us. You're basicially showcasing the issue, I'm a skeptic, and without any evidence other than words or maybe a screen or two, you can't convince me. I see most users have very high temps, and those who claim that their notebook runs cool and acceptable never provide anything but words, I never get to see any videos proving their point or in mr.fox case even disproving himself. If you want to show skeptics like me that a 8700K can run at 4.9ghz on acceptable temps, then go ahead, play a game like crysis 3 for 15-20min with afterburner or HWinfo overlay and upload it on youtube, if you don't do it, then you're basicially wasting your time. I don't take words from users as evidence as long the majority says the opposite.

 

you're making it to be more complicated than it is, its rather simple. grab a good SL CPU for more and you can achieve more. if someone target a 4.7ghz in laptop they can go with 5ghz or 4.9ghz sample on SL for much lower cost than the top 5.2/5.3 difference of several hundred dollars.

with mobile chip theres no such option, though quality is lower a 4.5ghz should still be possible as long as heatsink and dissipation allows it. entire cooling system needs good dissipation and heat capacity with large surface area, most thin notebook will not have that, ever, its just common sense.

and honestly even at my current temp im not satisfied cause its winter time. summer time means up my temp by up to 15 degree. i am trying to add in a small fan to increase dissipation because right now capacity is good but dissipation hasnt changed much from 7700k laptop, whats improved is the CPU and heatsink surface area.

this is the part i love the most, since by standard deviation, your "majority" of people/consumers are not enthuiasts. thats why majority people are not rich, majority people are not genius, majority people are not using common sense, majority people aren't willing to learn, majority people loves to blame than to learn. i could go on, this is the way of the world and you should know that. going by what majority of people say is a mistake in cases like these, though its human nature to do that to save time so i dont blame you, we want info quick.

 

Instead of providing evidence, you keep talking. So as a skeptic I'll just take it as a "I'm talking straight out of my butthole". I'll assume your notebook is running like a fournace as usual, stop wasting my time with "blah blah" and come back once you actually want to provide evidence. You're wasting my, your and everyone elses time.

 

instead of looking at facts provided to you, you refuse to use your head and think. i am at a loss, talking to you makes me lose brain cells xD

 

Bla bla, furnace not hot, blabla.

10/10 would look at facts again.

Get out of here.

I like how you're so ashamed of your steaming hot furnace that you simply refuse to provide any evidence and keep on rambling. I assume you realized that your little investiment went up in flames, quite literally.

By the way, I got this packad bell notebook here with Athlon dual core, it has 20k CB points and runs on 10ghz, also on 10c at max temp.
#OleEvidence provided.

Now everyone who is skeptical and demands evidence for my claims now will get replied with look at facts or use your head.

#Genius.

 

you dont have to be ashamed of being stupid lel

nice try tho :3

 

Dno why I assumed you were able to read and process information. My 10ghz athlon just went to 20k cinebench points cuz of uberhack btw. Better believe the facts presented bruh.

 

:3 i'd refer to some funny meme but that would probably hurt your feelings so i'll refrain

 

Thank you for your consideration.

 

Remember folks, this is the guy who "wrote his own EC" even better than Prema the God, and managed to hack the 7820HK in the GT73VR to run at 5.2 ghz at 1.270v, better than the best desktop 7700K's!

Yes, definitely believe what he's saying. He knows his stuff!
So now he's jealous of people running 5 ghz on Clevos because he wants to brag about his 5.2 ghz 7820HK stable CPU!
@Papusan @Mr. Fox

Oh yeah, liquid metal only 1C lower than Kryonaut.

 

And delidding cpu's in laptops is wasted energy as you can see. I wonder why HID and some other still offer it on their web page if it won't work on laptops Why I get lower Cpu temp with delidding is damn strange. Maybe I shall delidde my *GPU* as well? Placebo-effect?

 

Bare die cooling is a hard sell but a delid does lower temperatures, every credible outlet on the internet has found this.

 

Lies !

 

I'd like to see the test platform where those numbers came from if someone got them.

 

thats comedy gold, notebookreview version LOL
there was another quote he made about single vs double channel memory is the same for gaming fps output, then some guy immediately linked to a youtube video to discredit our @Danishblunt LMAO

 

ole!!! admitted that his 8700K throttles to 1ghz with 95c and he already burned 3 notebooks to death because he can't figure out how to overclock. LMAO

 

Laptops throttle when not properly cooled at desired thresholds

Who knew.

 

So where's your 5.2 ghz 1.270v with CUSTOM HOMEBUILT EC GT73VR?
let's see it. Let's see a cinebench score with HWinfo64 and Throttlestop running in the background! And TAKE A VIDEO OF IT So you don't photoshop those results like you got CAUGHT doing last time!

Comeon. I know you can do it!
you're better than @Prema ! You can do what the Premagod can't! Like, CRACK the SHA-1 256 bit encryption code at the end of the GT73VR EC in your sleep !

 

Thou shalt no invoke the name of @Prema in vain.

 

he did that? lol

Spoiler

 

Yeah. Heard he's a special snowflake who tends to lie and make lots of shi* up. Just rumors tho.

 

Yeah he did. Papusan caught him red handed.

 

rofl thats pretty funny

is your tactic to rile up others and have the thread closed? is that why you mentioned the other day "i predict thread will go into argument and get closed".

such a weak imagination lmao

Spoiler

 

Yeah funny indeed.
No, but you got quite the imagination.

Yeah I wish I could substitute reality like you do.

 

Does this forum not have a principle for posting accurate information like OCN does? I dislike that forum but I liked when they enforced those principles back in the day.

 

Well according to many users who pmed me it apparently used to be like this, until certain people would post nonsense how BGA is inferior to LGA in every situation, how anything that isn't heavy and full of hardware is inherintly garbage etc. basicially made a lot of people quit.

The start of my discussion with ole basicially showcases this perfecly, when asking for evidence for his claim (in a very reasonable and polite manner), I get nothing and am apparently stupid for not taking his words for facts, after I realized he still acts like a baboon I simply didn't bother anymore. Unlike others I don't leave the forums tho. You can go 1 page back to see the perfect illustration of the issue.

 

Both ends of the spectrum have these problems.

Your just the other end of spectrum where even in your reply to me isnt filled with any citation or fact to which I had inquired but filled with rhetoric. No where in your reply is there an answer. I didnt ask about the social norms of the forum or the behavior of certain loud members of the community.

I asked about the ToS and if there was a clause that described what I was inquiring to.

So really, in actuality, you could apply those same criticisms you have to yourself. As you have failed to provide proof of your claims in other threads and have gone above and beyond to translate my statements into something else entirely or insert my motivations for me.

I hedge my statements because I accept that my statements can very well be false or outdated. Very few times are my statements in absolution. Im only a hobbyist, so I appreciate when proof or citation is provided.

This whole photoshop debacle is news to me though. I dont spend much time outside of the Alienware 17 threads since what level of knowledge I have really pertains to that machine and a couple other model laptops like the y510p/y410p and m4600.

 

I don't think I need to cite something when telling you to literally read 1 page back where the source is. It's not difficult, you don't need to cite everything if you source something, in my case 1 page back, it's not like I tell you something stupid like "Go look around you" or anything equally vague. If literally going 1 page is to much of a hassle for you, then I'm afraid you'll have to live with it.

You expect me to provide proof of claims nobody asked evidence for, which is pointless. If someone would ask for proof and I would refuse to do so, like ole did in my case, then we can have that discussion, until that happens you're basicially hitting your head against a brick wall.

I didn't insert any "motivations" to you, that's coming straight out of your bum. If you keep interpreting things the way you do then it's not suprise you get misunderstood very easily.

Literally your first statement:

Also to further showcase how broken your logic is and that you need to improve on what you ask:

Principle is usally refering to moral or an idea, it is something people follow because they think it's right. Not anything that is "set in stone".

As you can clearly see, you never asked about any terms of use and no clause. When you had written rule instead of principle then someone could imply that you were talking about the tos (note, imply, you're still vague about it) and a rule concerining the citation, however you didn't. I literally gave an answer the your question, if you ask a question you don't mean to ask, then recieve an answer you didn't want, then don't come at me because you fail to ask the proper question, ask proper question before hitting that "reply" button.