BGA Venting Thread ;)

Because I didn't know how to swim.

 

Hello new person, from an old person.

But, you were human and made a mistake. The cool part is you are willing to admit it, learned from it and won't make the same mistake again. And, you help others by warning them about making the same mistake. I love happy endings.

 

Even with that being said, he's still pushing his system anyway.

Tweak what you got, push for a better experience

 

Absolutely. Squeezing lemonade from lemons is the best way to a happy life. Even if you hate lemonade, you can sell it to those that do like it. Otherwise, you get locked up being sour about being dealt a basket of lemons.

 

doesn't work that way when all u boys talk about is 99.99% of the market going bga. thats 1 mobo sale you got out of how many, for that 99.99% you gonna need at least few thousands of that. the talk of "cherry picking" and talk of "majority" doesn't go well together, though there are times some will have a decent pricing because majority are being produced more in numbers.

 

Thanks for everyone 's reply . Guess he bought it before knowing it is bga

 

Well this is a noob question . If i overclock a 4 ghz to , let's see , 4.4 ghz , will the performance be notice able ? If i render the same video , how much time will it shorten (in % ) ? Don't need to be too accurate . Because some how i think 10% more clock speed is not that significant in my perspective . Is the performance increase is linear and/or worth it ? Thank for any reply . You guys here are very knowledgable ( rich too , in my country 2$ is enough for a student to live a day ) and helpful but i hope you guys don't fight each other .

 

I can see you have learned from an good teacher And you're not the first one who have learned how to swim By me.

Take a look... Comparison between a fully blown 6700hq BGA Turd vs. 7700K with deactivated turbo (Aka the LGA Cpu is Castrated for this video).

 

Thank @Papusan and sorry everyone i think i have some typo in that post .

 

wah $2 for 1 day? where are you from?

10% isnt much but it is worth it for snappy computing. everything you do seem much smoother.

 

Vietnam and in some poor town . The big city is even not on par with you guy , though we do have quite many rich people . Still have internet though slow ...

 

I mean there is big difference in living standard between city and small town and i come from a small town .

 

10% frequency is likely to net a near 10% performance increase in something like video rendering.

 

how about 5hgz and 4ghz ? did it make gaming , browsing , encoding, ... a lot snappier ?

 

depends on what type of browsing behavior you have.

Gaming will depend on the other system limitations and game settings / resolution.

Encoding for sure.

 

Thank you . May replace mine with one clevo in 2019 if possible . Hopeful we will have a p650hs 's successtor with 10nm cpu and volta / ampere and mux switch and a full hd glossy screen . I really like the glossy one . I wonder why only the 4k one has high contrast / color accurate ? Or maybe a socket one ? Depend on my mark on the class haha

 

I personally hate glossy, in fact I am looking into having my R1 accept an 8-bit matte screen. Not because of color accuracy or things like that, I just feel like I am constantly wiping my screen of dust lol

In fact I need to head over that sub forum and stir some ideas.

 

It is just a glossy screen with a coating and most screens have a revision of a matte version next to the glossy.

 

You can actually replace same sized edp monitors with the same size, and depending on the lanes for your cable, even higher
resolution. I did exactly this on my travelmate p455-mg. (Ironically enough it has a bga i7 processor that my clevos i5-4200m wipes the literal floor with)

 

To add to that, my main problem with bga isn't the fact that oh you can't replace it, if you know what you're doing it's possible, bit with the idea that motherboards are now all encompassing.i can have a perfectly functional gpu, north and south bridge and the processor goes kaput and what do you know instead of shelling out 30$ for a cpu, I'm 500$ in the hole, not to mention the issues with the windows activations afterwards.

 

No, not really. A 10% CPU performance improvement means different things depending on how much of that CPU improvement directly translates into improvements in your application.

If all you run are benchmarks, then that 10% might be as good as gold to you.

If you run web browser tabs, Word, Excel, or anything else where only a portion of the run-time of the application involves CPU processing vs network, storage IO, or waiting on human input to do the next task, a 10% performance improvement is probably not noticeable at all.

In a game, if you are bottle-necked on CPU to increase FPS you might get a couple more FPS, but not likely. 10% won't even be noticeable either.

If the task the CPU is running is all in memory, is completely dependent on CPU clock cycles - directly scaling improvements such that your 10% overclock translates into a 10% reduction in run time for a task, and that task takes an hour, then you've saved 6 minutes "wall clock" time - or real time. That kind of improvement adds up in a 10 hour day that's 1 extra hour of work completed.

Generally a 10% OC is at the very bottom of what someone would be happy with for an OC, significant enough to mention, but nothing to brag about.

But, 10% performance improvement from CPU generation to generation is what Intel was giving every year for performance improvements, or less than 10% often enough.

So if you think of it that way, you can jump ahead 1 generation in CPU technology with each 10% OC from stock.

 

Very true. I had a i7-2600k I over clocked to 5.6 and it honestly was just as fast as a 4770k.

 

5.6Ghz 24/7 ?

 

Yes. The Sandy bridge series were hell of an over clocker. I had a 2500k where I hit the same, but I probably hit the lottery with the 2600k. Was able to sell it for 350$ 4 years later because of it's ability. To be fair, I had a Corsair 110i on it, but for being what it was, it show at the very least crazy stable over clocks.

Also sorry for the broken English, I'm a native speaker but my phone is not, apparently.

 

Sure you don't mean 4.6ghz?

The 2600K only ran 5ghz+ with nearly 1.5V. At 5.5ghz you'd be looking at 1.6V which would be simply unsustainable without a full waterblock (mostly to keep the VRM in check). There's no way an AIO is pulling that off.

4.6ghz however, is very doable as a daily driver (my own 2600K would go between 4.4ghz and 4.8ghz depending on the season).

 

Yeah, it's always hard to believe OC's out of one's own reach.

To add another data point, I had a 2700K that was stable @ 5.2ghz on air - Noctua massive cooler with 3 fans, so I can imagine that some lucky CPU would do 5.6ghz on water.

Stranger things have happened.

 

This is on air with a noctua d15, close to an aio but there are certain issues with air, like temp spikes and whatnot that air can't keep up with, making the entire platform have inrecoverable instability. Water has the benefit of being able to handle those spikes much more readily. Notice the voltage; *only* 1.544 at peak on air. 5.6 is possible on an aio, at about 1.576 with certain adjustments. On air it reached about 95c on stress testing. Sadly I don't have a photo of the 5.6 GHz run, but this is when I sold it in 2016/7. After it had been running for a good 2-4 years.

 

The big temperature drop with water helps a lot too.

 

I have no doubt 5+ghz is possible. It's just a stretch to believe it's done on an AIO which typically leads to very hot VRM temps while doing it..

Certainly kudos for that great chip. I eventually gave up the 2600K and went with a 6700K (then swapped to a 7700K later). Despite the great clocks, the newer chips performed more or less the same but used a third of the power and generated far less heat which is particularly important in the summers here with minimal AC.

 

I am now running 9TB HDD storage in my laptop with another 1TB available later for the mSATA SSD

Loving my Ranger.

Got a guy working on a 6 pipe heatsink which I will mod further for cooling the mosfets.

8-bit 120hz panel works in the laptop, just have to figure out the details for how to fit.

GTX 1070 150w works too, just have to buy one when the time is right lol.

I love my laptop, so much tinkering capability to make it unique and my own.

 

That's exactly why I switched It out for a laptop. The summers here are often 110°+. Desert in southern California isn't anything to scoff at in summer lol.

My VRMs were actually quite cool. It was an older Asus board, still in my desktop.

 

I sometimes game to just keep warm in this place

 

yes it does, a lot more especially on browsing with a ton of tabs. im on older waterfox UI 56 which can support older add-ons. the pre-firefox/waterfox quantum UI is slow and laggy when many tabs open and at 5ghz, oh yeah damn faster than 4ghz.

 

To be honest definitely relies on what stability and temp you have running while having that overclock. A 5.6ghz oc is no good when your cooler can't handle it or it throttles because of thermal limits. Most of the time although my 2600k was at 5.6 a 4600k would feel definitely snappier because of the cooling overhead and it's newer instruction sets. Lots of things have to be taken into account. A Pentium at 5ghz doesn't hold a candle to a modern core i3 at 2ghz.

If you can attain it, it's worth having so long as you don't damage your CPU. That means adequate cooling, etc. In the end, is chipping 3 years of life off a cpu that might be around for as little as 5 years in the first place necessary?

For the same reason I run my 1080 with a down clock and and lowered voltage, I'd recommend overclocking when your chips are older. I have enough gpu/CPU power to run anything at 4k comfortably enough lol.

That's not to say a 4.6ghz oc on a 4570k is a terrible thing either. All I'm really saying is find a comfortable medium. Less stress down the line.

18 years of experience with building in a 24 year old makes for some interesting stories. Like using toothpaste on my 9850 be back in the day before I had a credit card, until I could wait for Newegg to get my money order for mx-2. Or overclocking a 133mhz processor to 200 when I was 10 without having any idea of what I was doing. Burned a hole through my ide cables lol

 

a 5.6ghz sandy should be quite a bit faster than a 4.6ghz haswell gen cpu given the same amount of cores tho, even with IPC factored in.

i wish i had a good chip like that, in a laptop of course.

 

That will be with a big tower cooler

 

Yeah, BGA can be expencive. Not always you find what you want for an ok price... Dell Canada wants 2639.99CAD for this damned board, best price I can find so far is 900USD for a used one, imagine how hesitant I am...
And this is after all the problems I posted here:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/alienware-17-r4-various-problems.813372/

 

Bottom line: there is zero benefit to buying BGA garbage. Anyone rationalizing justification for the trash is just being a fanboy Kool-Aid drinker and making lame excuses for half-assed products.

 

The super thin and lights would certainly disagree and the thinner and lighter machines we offer would too.

Not to your needs of course.

 

I do feel there and benefits and detriments to the bga type. Difficult to repair on your own, if your CPU died, gotta Chuck a perfectly good gpu, vice versa, but also benefits like ease of replacement, thin/light, but also some things like cost to make. If you have a bga board it's much easier to build a laptop around since there isn't as many parts to worry about.

 

i think i am ok with bga thin light laptop if they have good warranty ( easy to replace ) and is not overpriced . 1070 max q laptop should not be more expensive than normal 1070 laptop in my opinion .

 

I can see a Huge improvement in the Alienware MB lottery. Increased the trottling point from 799MHz to 1.5GHz. Or it was a fluke?

 

Yes unless there is some other difference like build materials it should not be more.

 

Well, there are some reasons @Mr. Fox , an i have many!

The most prominent one is reliability and warranty, i know that some clevos last more then a decade, but we shouldn't forget there are some who die just after the warranty periond.

However i dont even mind if i have to bear the cost of a replacement, thing is, even replacement parts are impossible to find in a country like mine. You know this reason an all my previous posts, tht is the reason i kinda hesitate on a lga laptop.

This prominent reason is why i am tending to o over a msi for my college laptop. You guys are so lucky that you can buy clevos so easily, and get it repaired under warranty more easily, but for foreigners like me, it'd be dumb to buy a laptop which *possibly* could die and, the worse part you cant get it repaired.

 

Local support is always a big consideration sure, but it varies by region.

 

I have had far fewer problems with Clevo laptops dying unexpectedly than I have Alienware. I have only experienced one motherboard that died in a Clevo and all of my Alienwares had more than one motherboard that unexpectedly died. I have found all of my Clevo notebooks to be very reliable products. I don't need to have anyone to fix my machines for me, but not being able to buy replacement parts would be a big problem regardless of brand.

 

That's definitely the correct approach, but remind me where you're based? Remember that having a local reseller isn't always the same as having a local repair center/warranty repair facility.

 

He's in India. it's VERY hard to get stuff there! You can't even buy decent thermal paste without importing it !
It's a great place for exotic food and scenery and friendly people, but NOT for high end computer parts !!!

 

You talk more as all Clevo's you get will run into flaws This is not the normal. Either buy or forget it. My oldest Clevo from 2010 run as day one. Same also for my P870 But I can't say the same for my Alienware 17 (fully socket hardware). Or my oldest sons MSI (as well with fully socket hardware).

 

Well i just posted the same that there are clevos that run for over a decade

I dont mind spending even 500$ for repairs, thing is, you just cant get repairs in india!