BGA Venting Thread ;)

I dont even mind importing, problem comes that even companoes like fedex etc dont handle pckages too well, I've literally seen them throwing packages in the carriage trucks.

Also, not forgetting the 61% customs on computer peripherals and parts stops my hand.

 

Well, yeah, i tried contacting a clevo reseller in india who only sells p775 and p750 laptops ( azom.systems ), his only reply was that they cant do repairs on my laptop( completely paid repairs) due to company policy.

 

Do the repairs yourself. If the part is already broken then breaking it further is hardly going to be an issue

 

Oh, well yeah i said i could repair them myself, thing is i cant get the replacement parts. Just imagine i find out my board has bent socket pins or a defective copper linings on pcb, or maybe a defective usb port? In that case i would need a replacement board which i just cant get!

 

Thats the price of this hobby in your relative area.

For some its easier and others not so much.

 

Soo, that's just what i said, these are reasons not to buy a clevo for "FOREIGNERS"

 

Then there is nothing to buy, bruh Outside a homebuild desktop.

 

Uhh, no.

I couldn't afford a clevo and I'm not a "foreigner". I settled for the next best thing which was another clevo unit which I didn't like and sold. Now I'm using a ranger.

 

https://wccftech.com/intel-8-core-16-thread-coffee-lake-8th-gen-cpu-spotted/

good hopes that its a plug n play in 870TM. while mobile i9 pays premium and only gets 6 core, desktop socket just a drop in chip. time to upgrade end of the year.

 

You do get diminishing returns. You have to balance if 8 cores is worth the frequency drop in a power limited scenario.

 

Nope.

You also need to purchase a new motherboard, remove cooler, install new cooler, there;s a lot more going on for desktop as well.

Even the operation of installing a new motherboard would take me around 12 hours of work.

On the other hand, I'd still build my mini portable desktop again, it is a love machine.

 

You forget that todays Z370 is still 300-series board. See also old Z170 with upgrade
The Mighty Clevo P870DM-G "Phoenix" Gets an 8700K and GTX 1080 Upgrade

 

dayman from reddit/hardforum showed ES chip being used on z370 platform. intel however might make the adjustment to NOT work in z370. prema can prob get it to work no doubt, at least thats what im hoping LOL

 

Welp, let's see if this will work for other motherboards as well...

That would be lovely actually!

In the meanwhile, I have a desktoppppppiiiiieeeeee thingy with an iTX so I might not get that magic

 

yaw man the power of LGA, good thing like this happen once a while we'll be able to plug n play.. but ultimately i'd only trust prema really. even if Desktop mobo works, i'd still wait for prema for the OKAY b4 doing it.

@Falkentyne when you switching to LGA bruh, 8 core coming wait for it and make the jump, dump the 4c BGA even if its the king of binned BGA cpu, sell it.

 

I have something far more urgent and critical in my life to deal with first. Assuming I'm successful at dealing with that, then and only then will I get the 9700K (Or whatever it will be called) and GTX 1180 Clevo premamodded laptop. The MSI version of ANY 8 core will still have that hardwired EC overcurrent Power trip (CPU_CrtT = 1 ) (Svet is looking at seeing if disabling the "string" variable in the raw EC file is capable of disabling this without having to recalculate multiple checksums to avoid a brick).

 

Yes, Brother @Prema does some amazing stuff, but he doesn't do any desktop motherboard

 

Well I'm sure he's always got something going on in the pipeline.

 

https://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/yajiuma/1126991.html 8 cores folks, hope this works right away in our machine with the simplest mod.

bga peeps got nothing on dis though, stuck with 4/6 cores while paying premium!

@Ionising_Radiation @hmscott @Danishblunt covert to LGA soon

 

Yep, I'm converting to LGA...

LGA 4094, also known as TR4, with a 25" 1440p 144 Hz HDR IPS display (or two), an ATX motherboard, and proper cooling with beQuiet, cooling a 16-core 5 GHz 7-nm CPU.

Desktop CPUs on notebooks are a novelty, interesting but impractical as hell for me. Thanks for the invite, though

Sent from my H8324 using Tapatalk

 

TR4 will take a while, why not TR2 out this year?

 

I was referring to the socket, which is called Socket TR4.

I am not buying Threadripper this year. In fact, I'm not buying anything at all this year, because Intel has lost its way, and AMD has something big brewing for next year.

 

yep u gotta ditch dem bga while you still can, AM4 socket will allow years of upgrade. well if you going into 7nm TR then its prob only 1 year or less cause it'll be out in mid 2019.

 

I still need a laptop for university, though. And I think I'll get a second-hand notebook for a while, until 7 nm lands.

 

lga 2nd hand notebook last forever and does wonders

 

Thanks, but I'll probably get a burner machine costing $500 or less, so no LGA for me. Unless you're willing to donate a MSI 16L13?

 

THIS. Both me and bro @Mr. Fox Fox have preached this as long I can remember. But $500 is on the upper side

Talk about burner... This is from Aliewares newest Flagship the AW17R5 with the +$600 usd unlocked Mobile Core i9 running 45W Cpu Package Power.

 

Well, I still plan on buying a laptop that cost $1500 when new—see if I can wrangle a 13–15" Haswell/Skylake quad-core notebook with a mid-range discrete GPU.

 

naw, i dont donate LGA laptops once i buy them because they are easily to maintain for a long lifetime. if you plan to buy a $500 and if its BGA then make sure you sell it and its something popular, or have someone to pass it down to. or an older LGA laptop would be cheap, like ivy/sandybridge era which is still plenty fast.

 

For a gamer it's more the GPU/cooling limits of those older systems.

 

While the article is related to Apple based products, some of the newer products housing the intel i9-8950HK BGA CPU with poor cooling systems are suffering from thermal throttling as well.

I believe the article was written before Apple's announcement of a fix to the thermal mgmt system - http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2018/07...18-macbook-pro-cpu-throttling-issues-fix.html

But still, this statement from the article holds true, "The problem, almost always, comes back to heat: there’s too much of it, and not enough space to get rid of it." Source- https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9kmkve/thinner-and-lighter-laptops-have-screwed-us-all

Nothing new or groundbreaking in this article, but it does a nice job summing up all we've discussed in this thread and throughout the forum.

 

imho we all knew it was coming. the amount of capacity and size of heatsink radiator is like 1/3rd the size of our thicker laptop ontop of having crappy binned chips. it is obvious it can only run at 1/3rd of frequency or possibly less.

whats funny is, sheeple consider that it is a software issue or intel issue, not apple's problem. LMAO

 

Yes, that is funny. I thought so as well. MacBook and Razer laptop fanbois are similar in this regard. It's all about protecting their cult ure even when the product sucks.

 

Those people need some lessons in physics to understand what a CPU is and why it produces heat...

 

Wait, people are actually responding that way? That's...I don't know. Something.

 

It certainly wouldn't hurt, but most of them are beyond redemption as this point. Once in a while someone escapes the mindset, but they are generally the exception.

I am betting that you are being facetious. I know my surprised look is not on my face.

 

I'm being serious, who, with some knowledge of computers, would have ever expected an iMac thingy to work with i9...?

 

i9 is only a marketing name for charging more $$$. Still almost same Mobile chips as the rest of the Core i7 BGA family. The main difference is the new feature “Turbo Velocity Boost” vs the rest. They could in fact used i7 as for the previous gen unlocked Hk BGA chips. Wouldn’t do a damn difference!! But bigger numbers as you know tempting some people. How it performs doesn’t matter!!

 

there are more comments on other forum/review sites but dont remember and can't find now, this one came recently so heres a link. typical intel/apple sheeple.

https://disqus.com/home/discussion/...oducts_coming_in_20182019/#comment-4009641608

LOL "excapes"

 

Well, things will get better than a happy BGA customer isn’t it? Well I am here to report bad news. Because sadly I am in the trend and I am pretty much agreeing with @Papusan and @Mr. Fox.

Just bought a BGA Alienware, at first disagreed with the “BGA Hate” I call it. However yes, the flaws you potentially risk don’t put your mind at ease when you try to maintain the system or even Ensure it performs optimally. And after 1 year of BGA experience, I am starting move towards the anti BGA community, in which I discourage anyone in putting money in disposable garbage.

My BGAlien 17 has already went through a crap load of problems within 1 year of owning it and I don’t feel the sense of reliability or assurance anymore not to mention, 5-6 years ago on my first M14X, which is partially BGA, it had a crap load of issues too which involves 4 motherboard changes. Even my current BGAlien 17, already had its 2 boards and now I am potentially getting a 3rd change already. REALLY?

I don’t think it’s about manufacturer’s reliability but more of, the sad truth of BGA being rubbish, especially people not liking, even flaming me for hating the new MacBook Pro with i9 when it doesn’t have the thermal solution to cool that junk.

And the sad thing is, people are looking for the ooh... ultra book! Thin and light!! Yay!! Carry it around like a Bawss! Of course the devil behind the scenes is, throttled chips, tamed down beasts and not getting what you’re supposed to pay for and the BGApple MacBook Crap 2018 is a prime example.

Thus the reason. I will tell anyone out there, don’t buy ridiculous BGA garbage. I have been through down that route and I don’t know how much money I could have potentially wasted to repair my BGA systems if it wasn’t thanks to the warranty.

And today, I am already trying my best to sell away my BGA system before it potentially give me issues again.

May potentially change my system to the Aftershock Titans (Singapore’s Clevo laptop distributor)

If anyone wants to buy a BGA system, maybe for the cheap, then fine. But no way one should spend thousands of dollars for unstable, high damage risk BGA trash.

 

Welcome to the Bright side of life bruh +rep

 

Here’s another thing to share as well and I also hope to leave the BGA section very soon

The only non BGA laptop I owned was the Alienware 18 R1. And frankly, the only issues I had with it was only when I accidentally did stupid stuff to it and Dell at least helped me out. And till this day despite it being 4 coming 5 years old and I sold it to a Friend, he told me it’s still flawless, though it needs a repaste.

And I looked at my BGAlien 17 and went... sigh, I have a JokeBook.

Gotta pack my bags quick before my BGA becomes trash quick

 

2 boards in a year and maybe another? As much as that sucks, you can't say that BGA is rubbish because you've had 2 and maybe 3 dodgy mainboards from one manufacturer in one chassis. What you can say is that this particular model of BGA mainboard from that manufacturer is rubbish, or that the manufacturer didn't need to replace any of the boards because that's not the source of the problem ( have no details of the issue so can't comment further).

Here are the work laptops that I have used, travelled to and from work every day, gamed on, photo edited on etc:

M860TU
M570RU
W150HN
N980
W230ST
P641
N130WU

(also a D900F inthere somewhere but not for long)

I have not had a single hardware problem with any of them and I think it's a pretty good mix of BGA/PGA etc, apart from the hinge on the W230 (though I dropped it so that didn't help).

Alienware not being able to fix your laptop is one thing, but that shouldn't drive your view on BGA in general. It has a place and people want it. But it also doesn't have it's place as we see with i9 in 9mm chassis and all the other valid arguments about upgrading, thermals, marketing etc that it gets cloudy

 

Well, it’s not just about a brand not being able to fix my issues, but also about people who I have helped out who used BGA systems and I sweat bullets trying to fix them, also I worked in an IT company as an intern and I can’t count how many disposable BGA laptops for the school are being dumped in the “To be condemned” box, like disposable underwear.

the issue with BGA is poor modularity. Take BGA as an example as a car. A car is made of different components, the engine, transmission, dashboard, etc. If a component fails, it can repaired, replaced in most cases, whereas, a BGA is like, your dashboard fails and the manufacturer says “you gotta buy a new car because the repair will cost as much as buying a new one.” And like I said, I don’t mind BGA if my laptop is probably like a US$500-US$800 disposable one for normal work but, if I am gonna spend maybe US$3000 for a gaming laptop, it better be good.

While Alienware didn’t fulfill my expectancy when I had the M14X and my current 17, the issue still remains that there is relatively no upgrade path (which I planned for my 18, but because of the LVDS and EDS support for Pascal, too bad I had to give it up, if not I would have kept it today.). So like what it is, disposable, plus not replaceable.

And the issue also is the Throttling. It annoys me as well when BGA laptops throttle down my performance, like paying for a Ferrari or something and being unable to speed fully because of the highway speed limits.

So, say no to BGA. It’s not just about Alienware, it’s about particularly any other brand that many people are sadly buying into soldered, throttled, Garbage and even worse, overpaying for it and all in all wasting their money on systems that can’t even perform the way it could be. Because many today want lighter and thinner, but then again, I don’t see that as a great excuse for throttled down trash.

 

I understand all the arguments and I mentioned that in my post, but it seemed like your hate for BGA started with your current laptop that had 2 MB replacements already. I didn't disagree with other points you made, I just pointed out that in that case of the laptop that you have owned, the problem is with the laptop manufacturer and not with BGA. We can say that the MB had to be replaced because it's BGA, but you would still have had either 2x MB, 2x CPU or 2x GPU replaced under warranty and that sound like you're experiencing multiple issues with the laptop model.

Anyway, it's the fault of companies and education authorities - there are loads of really good schemes and charities which would take them, recondition and use for charities at home and abroad. There's a lot of waste going on and some of it is because of ignorance (not you, I mean the system).

 

There's a very good reason the laptops get dumped. They're not worth fixing, even if they did use socketed hardware.

You may not be privvy to details as an intern at a school, but I can tell you any school I've worked with on hardware supply with is SUPER tight on their budget. Machines are bought in bulk and the only thing that matters is the average operating life and how well it can stand up to a beating. Fact is, school machines don't even need to last 2 years, kids can cause some frankly amazing levels of damage to school provided laptops which will probably end them in 6 months, never mind years.

Repairing laptops in a large corporate environment is almost useless. The margins are so low it almost costs more money to repair than replace. Maybe ask your supervisor whether he/she would fix a laptop even if it did have a socketable CPU.
I'd be willing to bet the response you'll get is "I ain't got time for that" or "I've got better things to do". You'd end up paying staff more in wages to do testing

On an individual level, repair-ability is important. When scaled up, not so much. To take the car example, that's exactly when large corporations cycle out their fleet vehicles every 1-2 years. It's literally more effective to replace the vehicles with brand new warranted ones, than it is to try and maintain/repair an ageing fleet.

I've said this before, but this problem lies SQUARELY with Intel. They set the TDP and they set the parameters for engineers. The "standard" is that the nominated TDP is for the Base Clock and even then it's almost never correct.
The fact that in every generation, the entire range of CPUs all have the same TDP should be proof enough. The 7700HQ has a 45W TDP and the 7920HQ has a 45W TDP. It's literally not possible.

 

Maybe in your environment, but not in any environment I have ever worked in, large and small.

Large environment = light troubleshooting then warranty on site repair.

Small environment = Repair in house.

If you're in a large environment with micky moused machines, no uniformity etc etc thats not a failure of rPGA system, thats a failure in management.

I've worked in corporate fields and in the middle of Coal mines, think kids are something? Try getting coal dust out of your laptops

 

You mean it was Intel who set increased Power limits and not Dell? Can Intel be blamed for Dell's own decisions?

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...950h-coffee-lake.810891/page-93#post-10769415

See also...
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...950h-coffee-lake.810891/page-92#post-10769126

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...950h-coffee-lake.810891/page-95#post-10772234


And you compare different binned processors

 

Intel is only responsible for manufacturing BGA CPU filth and facilitating garbage. What the OEMs do to screw things up even more is 100% on them. Intel is not responsible for their unique applications of incompetence. Half-assed engineering of the full package takes something crappy (BGA) and makes it horrible. Too thin, too light, wimpy heat sinks, wussy fans, sloppy this, sloppy that, emasculating firmware, etc., etc... not Intel's problem, or fault.

 

I had this brief moment where after hearing about all the returned product that they'd at least give Apple a share of the blame for at least being the ones that combined all that into one unit. But after reading responses over the weekend the cynical voice in the back of my head was singing "told you so".