BGA Venting Thread ;)

I'm going to be saying the same things fairly soon with my P870 I can feel it.

I've been playing with watercooling laptops for a couple of years now and am nearly finished building a fully wc laptop. It's been fun for a hobby project build but there are definitely solid reasons why they don't exist. The benefits in low temps and noise reduction are immense but very niche and the tradeoffs are significant. The main one is actually space. The headaches fitting tubes inside even the cavernous P370 chassis...

The hybrid thing with quick disconnects pumping to a big external rad is definitely the way to go. Asus had the right idea with the GX800 dock but it was just lacking in liquid and air flow to really be as effective as it could be and their tiny blocks were ineffective. Looping copper pipe along existing heatpipes with lots of soldered contact area is far more effective.

 

Oh you mean like fusing the keyboard to the top deck and putting a weak key switch on it?

 

Can we maybe ban Meaker until he gets into another mood?

 

Prema has spoken, let it be so. lol

 

Maybe a circulation dock that's the size of the underside of the system. Intake fans in the middle, pulling from underneath on the bottom, water blocks above, pipes and rad fins ring the entire thing. Would be heavy but I mean you already needed a giant rolling case for the GX800 so why not just double down?

 

That's the thing though, if it's disconnectable you arent forced to take it all with you if the tradeoff in weight is worth the performance/noise/thermals of aircooling only, which was always the focus of what I planned, if its going to be immobile or fragile then it may as well be a desktop.

But letting users decide what they want to do with their hardware is very un-BGA-like let alone for the fraction who want to mod stuff. The one time I've seen someone take to a laptop with LN2, their efforts were pointless due to Asus' locked firmware power limits. Must ensure there's no room for uses beyond the vision of the manufacturer.

Even when in the case of undervolting it would be positive for everyone involved - higher clocks and better battery for users, lower thermals and better reliability for sellers - and an app could pretty easily be written to iterate and stresstest to find the minimum and adjust for crashes or instability, it is still completely locked out even from Throttlestop et al altering registers in memory from within Windows in a lot of models.

 

Next we can put high voltage lines on adjacent pins on a display connector lol.

Anyway docking solutions always have some form of cost which makes selling a 2060 + dock much more difficult than a 2070 inbuilt but no special connectivity.

 

Oh yeah, you’ve reminded me to NEVER buy another MacBook after crAPPLE pulled that ****

 

I do like to watch repairs/teardowns and when I saw him point out it was wired I really did LOL.

 

Louis Rossmann always finds a way to point out fundamental flaws in Apples stupid design choices which is why he's a great technician lol

 

The community he is a part of is pretty well read up too

 

Agreed. My idea was that it would be like the ASUS rear fan dock, but instead of plugging into the back you set the computer down on top of it and locked it in that way, so the heavy dock stays at home but also doesn't increase the horizontal footprint of the system while in use. Had my desk in a small apartment for a while made me think of it, a cooling solution that did not require too much depth in desk area.

 

The only problem with that is alignment and not suffocating the existing fans as they may as well assist.

The GS30 struggled to draw air and is the sort of thing you are suggesting.

 

Forgive me Father, for I have for I have sinned. The time since my last confession is 6 years and 3 months.

I have purchased another BGA turdbook. The problem is I cannot get away from these Lenovo (nee IBM) keyboards and trackpoint mice. I carried a BT Thinkpad keyboard with my Tornado F5 for 2 years, and I still do. I used a mechical 10keyless keyboard at home. I so wish the socketed hardware came with better keyboards. I try to close my eyes and type on the steelseries. I tried to convinced myself that they are "Serviceable".

They are. My words per minute are fine. And they are good words of the Lord. But it. is. not. the. same.

I found myself using my old T61p more and more. So I knew I needed to do something. I considered the Lenovo P72. It has socketable graphics but a BGA CPU. But this purchase has much soldered. CPU and RAM. I retired my BGA turdbook Mac. So net-net, I still where I was.

I have kept my Eurocom for the times I need the power and it's pull-a-part-ness. And it is not going anywhere. If only socketable hardware also meant I could swap in a Thinkpad keyboard and trackpoint. Why are keyboards such as afterthought on LGA. O why have you forsaken me?

/humor.

 

The t440p with 4980hq seems to be a good fit for me so far

 

Oh no, another brother turned his back to the LGA faith. The evil has tempted you with its keyboard.
Father Papu @Papusan will commence the exorcism shortly...

 

xD

Sent from my Xiaomi Mi Max 2 (Oxygen) using Tapatalk

 

At least that version has a decent keyboard lol.

 

@Aroc This is why I have a very nice Corsair K63 Wireless SE TKL Mechanical Keyboard.

 

I will add my recommendation to this, I love my K63. Bought it when I had only a tiny roll desk and needed to cram a kb and mouse into a small space, now that I have a "proper" office desk with loads of room I haven't felt the need to get something else.

 

Razers engineers didn't go as far as Frank Azor and his engineers this time. They designed it's new 17 inches Jokebook almost equal thin as the new soldered King Alienware m17 r2 but could still use socketed Ram and Wifi Aka not the fully Apple way as the new Alienware's. Easy seeing who is the Bell sheep for the Jokes.

He has asked for forgiveness. And as you know, I'm an very decent/honest old man... I will give him partly forgiveness for his sin I hope for hims sake... That he one day will see the light (or just waking up from the soldered nightmare) and see what he really lost and will then crawling back to the safe LGA harbor. I have the trust in people, brother Prema. I really have. See... bro @Aroc still have his Tornado I repped him for that.

 

Interesting thermal design on that one too.

 

So I gave into the dark side and bought a turdbook N850EJ (8750H/1050) in great nick for a really cheap price second hand for the notorious notebook-killing missus.

Mild (7zip) benchmark => 94C load under 30W average prolonged use, pretty obvious it was a temperature dependent premature power throttle to avoid thermal throttle.

The factory setup was woeful.

Put liquid metal on it => throttling 94C idle. Omgwtfbbq.

Bent the arms on the heatsink (tripod :vomit for more pressure and moved a wad of foam pushing the radiator upwards => 73C load under 70W prolonged use, constant 4.1Ghz. That's at stock voltage too, pre-undervolt.

 

This thread:

Puts low-viscosity liquid metallic thermal interface material on a low-pressure thermal plate

high temperatures ensue

surprised Pikachu

I mean, obviously. On any notebook that moves around, I wouldn't be using liquid metal. It's too runny, as is TG Kryonaut. Use something with a higher viscosity and yet a higher thermal transfer rate than normal thermal pastes. Laptop repasting 101.

Also, calling a thin-and-light a 'joke book' (seriously? Can it get any less mature than that?) is like calling a Prius a crappy car compared to a Veyron.

They're in totally different leagues.

 

I had a budget in mind and bought the best I could find within it for the user, which isn't going to be me. It feels cheap and plasticky and light and wobbles and flexes all over the place. It looks almost identical to the N950TP I set up last year, but that felt a lot more solid (except for similar screen flex). That's why I call it a "joke". Two of the screw mounts for the bottom case have broken off as though I overtightened them after only three removals. I would have racked up a hundred iterations on some of the various screws on my years old P370EM over the past couple of years of modding it without a single dethread or broken screw mount.

I have used liquid metal on everything for three years now on laptops that have been moved about without anything escaping, even from my early attempts without spill protection. You're as free to be scared by it and dissuade noobs from using it, as I am free to keep using it and risking my own hardware (with no evidence of escape ever, not even when there was obvious mounting misalignment) and reaping the noise and temperature benefits.

There was very little paste on either surface where the heatsink was in contact with the chip. That's why I didn't think contact pressure was an issue. But maybe the wads of hardened factory goop around the die were helping 'glue' the chip to the heatsink. I certainly didn't bend the heatpipes out of alignment when removing it. I also don't see how the viscosity of the TIM would make any difference once that factory TIM 'seal' was cracked, unless you're advocating the suction effect of high viscosity paste as a remedy to poor contact pressure, in which case I'd rather fix the problem than rely on a bodged solution. And in case you didn't notice, the temps were crap under load before I touched anything.

 

I took a while giving it a look over too.

 

sure sure, but....have u ever seen marketing trying to sell a Prius as a "Veyron with 3L/100km gas consumption"?

cuz thats what today's thin n light "gaming" crapbooks are all about

Sent from my Xiaomi Mi Max 2 (Oxygen) using Tapatalk

 

It's hard comparing to cars, because on one hand you would have the veyron and then they also offer a cheaper one with 80% of the performance that gets better gas mileage, has usable rear seats and luggage capacity. It's a bit more expensive to fix if it goes wrong.

 

omfg https://wccftech.com/frank-azor-joins-amd/

@Papusan @Mr. Fox just like stage 4 cancer, it spreads fast and will always come back

 

Didn't see that coming.

 

well if he enters ONLY the gaming side for marketing purposes by all means, AMD needs them for sure. AMD"s marketing is pretty much non-existing and falls way behind of intel and nvidia in that aspect. 99% of consumers out there still donno much about AMD even if their hardware is now superior.

this maybe a good thing, then again could be bad, just have to see.

 

New AMD branded BGA laptops incoming?

 

regardless of which brand, bga is a big no no. bring the 16 cores 3950x into laptop with 2080 or 3080 into next laptop and we'll see. 128gb memory thanks

 

1000% agree. On certain specific model laptops with proper heatsink mounting pressure/design it is possible. But I am speaking to less than 1% of laptops sold, usually non-BGA models.

I had to return an Open Box Aorus 15 X9 after discovering a terrible LM application by the first owner. Temps were abysmal, I actually was able to remove all the electrical tape he used and LM and reapply normal thermal paste which performed much better. The mounting of the BGA design laptop's heatsink is not suited for this kind of application, plus the use of tape and nail polish between the components. It looked like a very rushed job to me, with LM spilling over the sides at various points. Thankfully the seller offered me a full refund.

 

Idle consumption is pretty tricky, the extreme bricks like the p570wm do not tend to sell well in the west.

 

Seems like not a good thing for AMD. It certainly calls their intelligence into question. If he was just a token leader serving as cog in the wheel, taking orders from the top and the crippled garbage wasn't his fault, maybe it will turn out OK. If he had the right ideas and vision, but was hog-tied and not allowed to do what he knew was right, it might even turn out good if he is allowed to execute on doing awesome things. But, if he was one of the master minds behind the garbage, probably won't end well. There's too much we don't know about him or what he might do without the dark cloud of mediocrity looming overhead. I guess time will tell.

 

They don't tend to hire people with no talent.

 

My usual cautious optimism says he's an ideas guy who got told no a lot by people with spreadsheets and graphs and that this will be a good move, but who knows at this point.

 

Even a competitive platform in a BGA sense would help.

 

At this point AMD hiring anyone from the performance laptop side of things can only be positive for whenever mobile 7nm does arrive. I just hope they're hiring him for his contact network and general experience and not for the history of what he's overseen over the past few years at Alienware, which is drive their entire lineup (with the recent and belated exception of the 51M) towards form-over-function poor QC thin junk that has completely ruined their hi-PO cred.

 

As said we don't know what edicts he had handed down to him.

 

No, we don't, we only have his public statements on record, which include in recent times defending soldered RAM and storage ("you can upgrade with an SD card") and of course as soon as the marketing for the 51M started, the great big walkback of all those years of stating how silly and pointless it was to put a LGA CPU in a laptop :/

 

Of course he will defend their choices though.

 

In this post we shall talk more about Screws And yeees, Dell and Azor have now re-designed their refreshed XPS models with new heatsink to be able to cool down the VRM's. The medicine is as we have seen the previous years... With less Screws. Aka less is more

From left-to-right: A look at the heatsink in the XPS 15 7590 compared to the one in the XPS 15 9570. (Image source: Dell Support).

The much older XPS come with 6 screws. Of course they had to share one the screws between the Cpu and Gpu cold plate.

Spoiler

From what I have seen from the new refreshed models, I wonder if Dell can continue improve the cooling even more for next years models if they continue removing Screws for the Heatsink. Of course... We shall not forget the nice side effect from this amazing engineering. Saved coins on Screws will as always be transformed into better earnings. Double up as to say!


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Btw. Thin and slim doesn't mean you have to replace SODIMM slots with soldered memory chips or have to reduce max supported memory as Dell did for their new refreshed 2019 line gamingbooks (Alienware m15/m17 r2).

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14506/dell-launches-xps-15-7590

 

Yeah, Info out the people seems works @Mr. Fox But is it enough to stop them from buying pure Junk? Not so sure. But I expect some of them out there at least will begin use common sense and put up the middle finger on lackluster hardware design and instead start vote with their wallets.

Anyone else having the urge to purchase a different brand because it's taking so long for Dell to fix the configurations for m17 R2? Reddid.com | July 8, 2019

I'm trying hard not to, but the Razer Blade Pro 17 ($3,199.99 - i7-9750H and RTX 2080 Max-Q) and the new HP Omen 17 ($1,999.47 - i7-9750H and RTX 2080) are very, very tempting. I've been trying for weeks to get Alienware to change the botched website but nobody responds on Twitter.

I'm also a bit worried about the lack of upgradeability, as even the Wi-Fi card is soldered, and the questionable "cheap" choice of motherboard and daughterboard.

 

wait, what? you are tempted by BGA?! lemme check your temperature....smth must be wrong in your igloo

Sent from my Xiaomi Mi Max 2 (Oxygen) using Tapatalk

 

Lemme spell it for you my good brother. Nothing wrong with me - Where do you see that I show some love for the Soldered Junk? If you looked into the Reddit thread I posted above. It seems people are very interested in what I posts and even put it out for others. And that's a good thing. This means my personal opinions about yesterday/todays tech reach out to the people everywhere. The more people out there that read my many quality posts... The better. This give me more energy to want post more of same or similar topics

 

oooh that was a quote! thank god....here I was worrying about the state of the world when even a poopoosan is tempted by BGA trash!

well im glad i misread your post and no worries buddy, you and your posts are very hard / rather impossible to be overlooked

 

Considering the amount of misinformation that gets spread like the gospel on reddit by people claiming to know things they clearly don't, this is enlightening to hear.

 

A bit of critical thinking could be helping everyone as usual on that front