BGA Venting Thread ;)

The best decision I have ever made in 2020, build my own pc. Games at 144 hz and 1440p with temps not hitting 70c with an air cooler.

 

If you want an easy time a desktop is the way to go, just too tempting for me to just keep adding bits though

 

You still have room for that in your P870.. 9900KS, 2080S, 4000Mhz ram etc

 

For my uses the really easy to cool 6 core at 5Ghz does very well, the SLI 1080s are fun. I'm over 3Ghz for ram at least for now

We'll see what happens with the 3xxx gen cards.

 

I'm all for RTX30x0, but after seeing how desktop cards will be using a new 12 pin power connector, I'm not so optimistic about compatibility with P7/P8/X170. Hopefully I'm wrong.

 

Depends on the clock vs voltage curve, might just get really hungry at the higher Mhz.

 

The 3080 is rumored to be 320w hence the Power connector change. I expect Mobile graphics will continue max out at 200w. Remember notebooks being thinner and slimmer and Nvidia want that you change notebooks as you change underwear(increased TGP means you can have it longer due better performance). Cap TGP is their best way to force you over on next before time.
https://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce...cs-card-allegedly-20-faster-than-rtx-2080-ti/

The new 12 pin power connector is to feed 320W TGP. Probably needed due the improved 10 nm nodes. Aka fake 8nm With same lower TGP as for Turing cards I think Nvidia would struggle hard vs. Big Navi.

More evidence points towards AMD's RDNA2 Big Navi superiority over Nvidia's high-end Ampere RTX 3000 GPUs

 

Well if you want a stock 320W TDP in a notebook it's certainly going to be a true brick.

 

With 320w for desktops and notebooks continue max out at 200w we will see even worse performance gap vs desktop than with Turing gen graphics. Back to old days with m branded graphics but with a second tier with even worse option (Max-Q). This is tomorrow’s reality. All those who hoped for more equal performance from notebooks vs desktops may finally see the paint on the wall!

Push for even thinner notebook design and we will soon see half the TGP (150w) for Max-P vs true desktop cards. Dell Alienware is already there with their brand new m17 R3. Yeah, it’s weird people couldn’t see this mess would come before or later.

Or is near 1/3 of rated desktop cards TGP for Max-Q tempting?

 

This is really sad. I remember everyone being excited for the Pascal cards because it finally closed the performance gap between laptops and desktops.

Sigh, now they want to reopen the gap. What happened to progress? This is a regression!

 

It is what it is. There is no such thing as a true desktop replacement. There are more or less powerful laptops. The question is: bearing in mind diminishing returns on excess power, will the new laptop chips be capable enough to take care of broadly understood business for the majority of their owners. Most likely so.

 

Again this depends on the voltage curve. The 8nm chips could be quite efficient when not going in full.

 

Yeah, and we know there is enough Voltage to run well above 200w for last years 2080 Max-P. But the cards is capped at 200w and 2100 on the core. The performance gap between desktop cards vs those in notebooks will continue grow with Ampere. 200 vs 215/225 will now be 200 vs. 320 or 60% crippled

 

In pure power terms maybe but you can't just add 60% on in a single generation for power. You would be looking at something the size of the P570Wm for what is in real terms not that much of a jump in performance remembering and I think especially for these chips you get massively diminishing returns as you start reaching those desktop clocks.

There are rumours that the card will happily eat over 400W.

 

The old P870 could eat 400w power. What we now see is degraded downward performance vs. previous years notebooks (graphics performance). 980 Mobile was on par with 980 desktop cards. As I said... Once again can wee see M branded cards come back in Max-P and Max-Q design. See, double up now and one stap back. Not a real desktop replacement on par with desktop performance people hoped for. This is the real facts bro Meaker.

And I'm sure bro @fox is with me on this. We saw the direction come when Nvidia started with Max-Q. Now can wee also see Max-P following the same paths.

 

I think it is a typo and Max-P/Q was meant to be Lax-P/Q. It would be more accurate. Being charged more money for less shouldn't be viewed favorably by anyone, but it is absolutely the direction things are going. The race to find the bottom is accelerating. It will be interesting to watch to see how much more tech garbage consumers are going to be willing to put up with. If it didn't adversely affect everyone it would be humorous to behold the stupidity. The fact that it does affect everyone is tragic. I am unable to identify anything (no, not even one thing) about notebook computing today that is compelling or exciting. Nobody sells a product that I would feel any level of happiness or excitement about purchasing for myself and that is extraordinarily tragic... and unprecedented.

Lax Synonyms: Adjective

• careless
• derelict,
• disregardful,
• lazy,
• neglectful,
• neglecting,
• negligent,
• remiss,
• slack

 

400W because you had SLI as a reason.

A larger machine needs a proper reason to exist, I've covered this before. Just ramping up clocks for rapidly diminishing gains is not a good enough reason to dissipate more.

 

Trading for example 40-50W to gain 100Mhz is not a wise move unless the sole reason is to post print screens to hwbot..

 

Absolutely. But sometimes is so hard to resist the urge of not being on top with the highest clock. Personally I always aim for the best stable overclock, don't care about the highest clock.

 

Not for the average user. But 40-50W to a bencher is

Yup, 200W TDP and clock block 4.0, just in case you mange to beat nVidias power limits.

 

Man I don't know how much more of this crap I can put up with. Here's to hoping the X170 will be the desktop killer we want, but if there isn't any laptop equipped with an Ampere GPU worth buying
(once they come out that is), I may just say screw it and build myself an ultraportable battery powered gaming desktop.

If I do, I'll definitely be showing off that setup in a post in the desktop hardware section with instructions and a parts list so you guys can escape from the madness with me.

 

It won't be a desktop killer, I can spare you that thought immediately. It will still be a formidable DTR, but there is just no way to compete with desktop when nVidia stacks the deck against us from the start.

 

If you absolutely need an Jokebook. Here is a few choices to avoid support lackluster tech. Pick your poison and be happy you don't help the notebook manufacturers to continue the sick trend. Another option is continue to use your phone for web, gaming or emails. The choice is yours @Mr. Fox @Ashtrix +++


The best cheap laptops for $350 or less in 2020 zdnet.com | Today

Pick of the best $350-or-less budget laptops and convertibles. $350 is pricey and on the upper side but a hell lot better than go over the $500 target all should avoid.


Not everyone wants to pay thousands of dollars for a new laptop jokebook.

Some are happy with cheap and cheerful systems that just get the job done without bells and whistles or fancy branding. Here are a handful of Windows 10 laptops, all priced under $320, and are perfect for most day-to-day tasks... Why pay more for same awful tech?

 

I'm going under 1500$. Not spending more than 3000$.
Cheaper laptops have upgradeable RAM DIMMs and SSDs.

 

Depends what you mean by compete. You can get a similar game experience.

 

As long people don't know what they buy, nothing will really change. Will be only worse bro Blacky. Sad isn't it? Why buy and ask afterwards? Because the thin design is so damn tasty?


Alienware M15 R3 the soldered Tragedy

 

The stupidity of the average person is shocking. We see lots of examples of it. It is really sad, but nothing really surprises me anymore. If there were any more opportunities for shaking my head it would probably appear as though I had Parkinson's Disease because it would be nonstop.

 

We help a lot of people on Reddit using noteb.com and it is not uncommon to see people thinking they can upgrade their laptop. However, most people do not care if they can upgrade or not as they are too scared to open their laptop even for basic maintenance. For many people even replacing their thermal paste seems scary. People usually want laptops that just work and that's it. There are a few who indeed think about upgrading and we have to tell them they cannot. Usually, it is people who buy very expensive systems form Ryzen or Alienware who think that the high price somehow means they are getting a much better machine.

However, I would like to mention that gamers usually are more willing to tinker with their devices than other consumer groups.

I fear that soon most gaming laptop will come with soldered RAM. Right now in the budget gaming segment, many laptops come with 8GB of RAM single-channel, and as we noticed from our reviews, single-channel RAM gives a severe performance penalty in games. So we noticed that when people learn that dual-channel helps a lot in recent titles, many are willing to buy another 8GB of RAM and just add it in, it's simpler than replacing the thermal paste. But I am fairly certain such behaviour is hurting laptop sales, especially in the budget segment. Thus soon, I think it will become standard in gaming laptops for the RAM to be soldered. I mean it's already soldered in most ultrabooks, so it's just a logical step to become soldered in gaming laptops.

Indeed. I wouldn't see stupidity. Many people are not that stupid, just uninformed and too lazy to get informed. We learned this very well after years of dealing with people through noteb.com . Hell, even our website is too advanced for most users and we need to do some UI changes to help the average joe make his pick.

I stand by what I said some time ago:
There is undoubtedly a market for upgradable laptops, with CPU, RAM, GPU and DISPLAY all easily upgradeable. I know the P7xx series from Clevo is upgradable, but those laptops are just too big and bulky to carry around. Not everyone needs that extra performance. Most people need a laptop, not a portable desktop. I mean, given the limited portability of the P7xx series, I would rather build a desktop, which I did.

I would argue that Clevo should make a truly portable, upgradeable laptop. Like I said before, use 65W TDP desktop processors from Intel or 65W castrated AMD processors, forget about anything above that, there is the P series for that. And to this laptop add a standard MXM video card. Again we don't need 100W+ MXM behemoths. A 75W standard MXM card is more than enough for most gaming needs, especially if it can be upgraded every 2 years. The limited TDP will make for a reduced cooling system, smaller power adapter and possibly longer battery life, which will make the laptop... well portable and usable as a laptop.

Market this as the world only 100% upgradeable gaming laptop and I am fairly certain many people will buy it. With a bit of marketing, it might be a big hit.

 

Well, Dellienware have clearly bet on ignorance, and may have scored a few initial points, perhaps even made some extra bucks, but will it be worth it long term? As we know, attempting to exploit ignorance typically only gets you so far, and hopefully this will be the case here too, unless they course-correct.. Eventually, the word will spread further and further, the burned people won't be fooled twice, and the brand will take some serious damage.

 

Look up secret shopper on Linus's you tube channel the recent one. Gone are the days of Alienware team helping you decide on your system or decent tech support, it's now upsell upsell upsell, with tech support to follow suite it would seem.

Sent from my SNE-LX1 using Tapatalk

 

It’s surprising that HP are one of the better ones lol. Who would have thought they genuinely care to give you the best value product. I can’t vouch for their quality though, dell (not alienware) is known to have better quality parts than HP. From the years I’ve been working in repair shops I can tell you I get way more hp’s than dell’s that need a new power supply or motherboard.

The amount the dell employee mentioned financing my god it was a nightmare lol and added the antivirus aswell as the warranty even though it was clearly stated it wasn’t needed. Dell really have gone downhill...

 

HP is generally horrible. Some of their business class machines are well made, but their consumer products are rubbish. And, they are severe offenders at bloat with buggy software. I put them in the same class as Lenovo... the digital equivalent of a bologna sandwich served on moldy white bread with extra mayo, but no cheese, lettuce, or tomato. Better than starving, but not particularly good.

 

I agree, the business class machines are well made but I’d still class them as unreliable. Laptop wise they have got much better but need to fix the cpu + gpu unified heatsink combo they put in high end omen laptops as the cpu is throttled to oblivion once the gpu kicks in.

I’d say Acer is on the come up, yeah in the beginning when they started making desktops they were straight garbage, unreliable motherboards and hard drives that constantly failed. I have genuinely seen them improve on quality in these last few years where I would, dare say, even recommend them for people who want a basic low end/ mid tier system. I’ve seen a few Acer’s clogged with dust, all intakes chocked and the machine is still chugging along just fine, that’s when you know it’s quality just like some old school dells

Can’t comment on high end as I’ve never tried it. Definitely can’t be worse than Lenovo lol.

 

HP consumer has been making a killing in 2020 tbh. The Omen 15 is great, and the Envy 15 is amazing, with dual vapor chambers for the CPU and GPU and even a PCH heatsink.

 

Interesting. I think the Omen 15 is a joke. The one I had access to for a few days was pretty pathetic. Nice on the outside, poorly made on the inside. Makes my TongFang seem like a high-end product in comparison.

 

Yeah my omen was a pain in the ass to get into the screws specifically were the nightmare to undo. I don’t know what it was either from factory they tightened them like crazy or my screw driver is becoming useless. Either way it wasn’t easy to open unlike a clevo or msi laptop for example.

 

I've had fun with some of their old workstation designs (2nd gen) and tearing them apart and franken machining them.

 

The ZBook 15 that I had for a while was built like a brick house. It had a 4900MQ and an anemic K1100M Quadro MXM Type A GPU. The cooling system on it was atrociously bad, but the dead-end MXM A GPU was ultimately what abbreviated its usefulness. I gave it to my oldest son as a replacement for his antique Dell Inspiron crackerbox with a Core 2 Duo and 4GB of RAM. While it was no longer of any value to me, it was a pretty massive upgrade for him.

 

I see you mention Acer. Not my cup of tea (still a Joke) but I wrote a posts about Acer vs. Alienware a few years ago in the nVidia GTX 10xx Series notebook discussion thread. Nailed to the wall for the 3d time in a row I mean I was one of the few who saw this come

Now it is determined even once again. Acer beat Alienware yet again!! For the 3rd time in a row.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...scussion-thread.794965/page-375#post-10474108

 

Who needs more evidence that Dell are lurking on these forums? I already noticed that whatever I suggest, they do the opposite, but now we know why Dell hired an ex-Acer phantom exec to replace Azor!

 

I had fun with MXM-A up to the 7770M cards.

 

Same here, I put a Gtx 980 non m into a Acer 8940g, has an mxm a slot (first gen i7 series). Pulled 120w from the slot, way more than the artificial ‘35w’ limit it supposedly had lol. Man I remember the days that laptop motherboards were actually reliable which could go far beyond spec and not just hot bga trash...


Then again I’ve given into bga trash as there isn’t an alternative for lightweight portable systems anymore unlike the haswell days lol.

 

The Mxm slot feeds just 19v anyway there is no filtering so your VRM on the card is doing that job. That's why the slot can seem to keep going.

 

Technically the limit is based on your charger wattage then I’m guessing? Does the 19v rail run directly from power in?

 

The exact details depend on the machine but it would. The traces and connector would also have a limit as would the heatsink.

 

Interesting, I always thought the power was regulated in some way through the motherboard as well as the gpu...

 

Screwed? @Mr. Fox @jc_denton @Ashtrix + all former Aw owners...



m15 R2, can I add memory?

 

Soldered RAM is an abomination and this behavior must be punished. Laptops are not smartphones and should not be designed after them.

This is also not a sustainable long term business strategy, and is going to generate a lot of eWaste.

 

It is sustainable when stupid people purchase rubbish. I wish it were not. But, we should be clear that lots and lots and lots of stupid things that are unacceptable to anyone with high standards are sustainable because of stupid people with low standards and good old fashioned ignorance. I think they are often in the majority.

Interesting times that we live in when a person can be of ordinary intelligence but high standards and having the audacity to speak their beliefs qualifies them as an arrogant elitist or a hate-driven racist among those that have lower standards and a different view.

 

individuals are smart, people are dumb