CPU hits 99C and throttles when running division

Ok but you're talking about a reseller who gave you this option and you paid for it? I went through LPC and didn't choose that option (it wasn't offered, and to be honest I've never see that offered anywhere). I've seen the offer for a package without a CPU, but never seen an offer to have them install a CPU you buy and shop to them. This is all moot! I don't have that warranty, I have a warranty for my whole package. I feel like you're suggesting these things from the perspective of your own situation and not recognizing that it's completey different from my situation. My warranty covers the package, doesn't include any option to refund an individual part or cover cost of replacing a part with a third party purchase. I can't keep explaining this, it's getting frustrating since I don't have a computer and have to type with my phone. I don't have that option!

Please... Someone get a reseller in here to explain it lol.

 

That all depends on your reseller and how flexible they are. HIDevolution is my reseller and they had no problem with that.

It's your system, do what makes you happy brah.

 

Like I said, I ordered off the menu - which means leaving out the CPU and memory wasn't an option in the online customization page.

So it wasn't an option that the Seller offered, it was an option I requested. And, they said yes, and that they will build customer requested options in to the build.

You don't need to ask a reseller, I have already done that a dozen+ times, but not with LPC, so you will need to ask them yourself.

You have a good reason. You already received the laptop with a bad performing CPU.

So this isn't an unreasonable request - you are only trying to avoid additional back and forth trips for RMA.

You are saying I am willing to pay a little extra to get a pre-tested pre-binned CPU to resolve this issue on this trip in to RMA. How can we work this out, here is what I suggest.

Make your statement and request direct, simple, and friendly.

 

Ok but you're still talking about a situation where the reseller agreed to let you purchase a third party part on your own. They didn't refund you the retail cost of your bad CPU...

If I wanted to spend $400 and not have warranty anymore (which again, I already paid for), that's not small change for what arguable advantage?

 

I'll tell you guys what. Only because it seems like I can't effectively explain this over the phone, I'll ask LPC and I'll post the email and reply back here.


Trust me, I HOPE you're right. Having a silicon lottery CPU paid for by my warranty would be worth more than my pride.

 

The CPU they provided you failed to perform. It's not unreasonable to propose sufficient recourse toward performance. You are asking them to take back the CPU, and you are specifying and paying for the replacement. They need to credit you for the CPU you aren't accepting from them.

I wouldn't recommend keeping / paying for both, you don't *need* both, unless you want to pay for a backup CPU, which isn't a bad idea, but not statistically necessary - besides you don't want to keep the CPU they shipped, it's bad, so you would need to have them swap in another CPU, which would be untested because they will make the build with the Silicon Lottery CPU. It would get confusing.

Better to drop their supplied CPU, get credit for it, and use that credit + a payment for the difference to purchase the Silicon Lottery CPU as replacement in the build.

 

Again, it is unreasonable because the warranty explicitly outlines their reconciliation of my issue. I'm asking them to work outside it and give me retail price for a product they themselves can replace at heavily discounted cost to them. I'm asking them to voluntarily lose both money and business while acting outside of a contractual agreement.

 

Ahh, this isn't a matter of pride, even if they turn you down, it's a matter of commerce and negotiation.

Right now you have the "ball" so to speak. They failed to provide you a working laptop - they should have tested and found this problem before shipping to you - and now you are offering a simple solution that assures success for both parties, and you are willing to pay the cost difference.

It's a fair and reasonable proposal. If they reject it, don't be upset, just ask them to please pre-test any CPU they swap into the build to make sure the same performance problem doesn't happen again - but don't say this until they reject your proposal - likely as not they will be fine with getting the pre-tested/binned CPU.

Heck, HID liked the idea so much that they now offer it as part of their build customization. You could mention that to LPC, if they initially balk at the request. Showing them another reseller that is doing this would be good supporting info.

 

You are going way too dark on this

They aren't losing money if they give you the credit for the CPU. They can RMA that CPU for another from Intel. They have no loss.

You are paying the additional cost of the new CPU over their cost / credit for their supplied CPU. Again, no loss to them.

You are offering to pay an additional handling / service fee for them to handle getting and installing a customer requested part, again you are covering their cost.

So, it's a no lose, both sides win situation

 

You're nothing if not an optimist . I'll reply back with a response

 

They lose overhead, time, and business, plus they have CPUs stocked for this purpose, and in business, sitting inventory is cost. They lose more than I can list here.

And I pay additional money. Where is the advantage for anyone? It's a lose lose.

 

Be positive, and good things will happen.

 

With this mentality and negative energy, the issue will not be resolved. I'm out of this thread.

 

Wow, you really don't want this to work out do you?

 

I have to agree with Phoenix here, you need to step out of the bad feelings of the moment - the failed CPU / laptop build, and approach it with a fresh positive perspective.

You need to get your head right before approaching them with your request to them. Maybe better to put it in a simple email message rather than call.

It's going to work out all right. You have nothing to lose, they are already RMA'ing to fix the problem, you are only suggesting an expedient solution using a pre-tested/binned CPU to assure success.

 

Ok, here's a question. All reasons aside why they would NOT agree to buying me a third party CPU and installing it. Assuming they agreed, why would I even want to pay anything at all? Let's say I have to spend money for shipping, just $20 (and I think we've made clear my costs would be much more), why would I want to pay money, even just $20, to be without my laptop for additional time and lose part of my warranty that I already paid for. Because the chances of it overclocking further are slightly higher and not even guaranteed? I feel like you're trying to convince me I can fix my computer by deltree c:

 

because, in my situation, getting the Silicon Lottery CPU made me feel like I bought a new computer. Yes it is the same model of CPU, but the higher clock speed I was able to achieve stable with no throttling @ 4.4 GHz on the CPU / 4.4 GHz on the Cache made it feel like I bought a diff. model CPU / laptop. Everything is so much faster and snappier you can instantly feel it.

So it's more like a guaranteed upgrade, no more headaches or waiting for your system only to receive another bad CPU and having to go through all this again.
You don't need to do this obviously, we are suggesting you a shortcut / guaranteed positive experience.

Even HIDevolution are going to start adding Silicon Lottery CPUs in their configuration screens for the P870DM after the success with my upgrade AND cover it under warranty. They will also start doing CPU delidding in-house rather than relying on Silicon Lottery.

 

If you haven't gotten the basic concept down right yet, then I can understand your unsurety in the result.

The pre-testing and binning of the CPU is a selection process that tests each CPU from a large quantity of CPU's and "bins" them into speeds that they are stable at under load.

Right now, with non-pretested CPU's, you have a chance of getting another bad one.

Selecting from the whole pool of available CPU's everywhere, your odds are just the same as when the first one was selected.

But, there is a much higher chance of getting another bad one - if it is being selected from the same shipment / batch / tray of CPU's. Which as you say is what LPC has in their inventory.

Odd's are still in your favor that the next CPU selected from that inventory will be better, not worse, or the same.

If LPC tests the new CPU the same as the old one, they won't catch the load based runaway heat problem that you found in the first CPU.

Unless LPC does something differently this time, you have an even chance of getting another bad CPU once you unbox it at home and test it.

So you would lose another round trip shipment for a 2nd RMA - a 3rd shipment. This would cost time and money in addition to that of the 1st RMA - 2nd shipment.

In my case I already knew this method of assuring a successful build, so I made my request for an off the menu solution before ordering, so that is easier, I pre-tested and pre-binned my resellers to assure success

In this case you have an even chance LPC will agree, slightly tipped in your favor given they already wasted your time and theirs with a failure and RMA - they will be just as happy to get a pre-tested CPU to assure success so they can put this order to book as completed with a happy customer.

Even more so because you are helping with a solution

 

You might mention to them that any savings would be lost, at least 7 deliddings worth, if they borked one of the SL binned CPU's while delidding... that's why SL charges so much for delidding, they have to cover the cost of lost CPU's that fail delidding.

 

So not only are you overclocking to 4.4 doing "everything", but you're saying you want me to do this AFTER giving up my CPU warranty? I can tell you I sure as hell will not be overclocking with no warranty, and I highly recommend you don't either. I'd also be extremely concerned if my clock were constantly at max regardless.

Or I can get a CPU for free under warranty that chances are can overclock too.. Do you see what I'm saying?

 

What the reseller needs to do, is run a stress test on all cores using AIDA64 Extreme Benchmark for at least 30 mins to one hour before shipping out the system to ensure no throttling / no overheating. That is a worst case workload scenario for a CPU and if that passes, anything else would be a breeze.

Like what I noticed, if for example my CPU reaches 80C in AIDA64, in real world situations like gaming, it would only max out at 60 - 65C

 

I see that you are saying you don't want to do this, and that's fine, we were only trying to help you out.

We think it's a good enough idea to do it ourselves, so that's why we suggested it to you.

You have already had months of problems, so spending a few bucks to get a good CPU this time around, to make it the last RMA, seemed like a good idea.

If you want to roll the dice again, go for it

 

nope, CPU failures due to overclocking are like 1 out of a million. Worst case scenario is that the CPU would lockup then you just reboot and lower the overclock. There is no damage involved. The only way you can damage it is by having the wrong voltage and running on that for prolonged days/nights. that's why I don't care about CPU warranties at all I'd take a Silicon Lottery CPU with no warranty any time of the day over an Intel Stock CPU even if it had 10 years warranty.

This is like someone buying an enthusiast car like a Shelby or a BMW M3 and not tuning it because he is afraid to lose warranty. Then why did you buy such a car/laptop in the first place?

Just my 2 cents, your mentality might differ from mine. But look at it this way, even if you don't want to overclock, a Silicon Lottery CPU would run much much cooler at stock speeds than a stock 6700K, so it's a win-win situation anyway. running super cool with 4.2 GHz on all cores. You can also set your power plan to BALANCED mode which means the CPU would run around 800 MHz to 1.4 GHz when not under load so that way you don't affect its life span.

 

You don't lose warranty by overclocking... You lose it by buying third party

 

Good idea, it's easier to suggest a readily available free benchmark / monitoring tool like AIDA64 to the seller to prove to themselves the CPU has a problem, and to verify the replacement CPU than suggest they buy The Division for testing and verification of a fix.

They / you need a test / tool that can easily recreate the problem on demand, so they know when the problem is resolved. Gameplay isn't easy to recreate.

 

I'll reply when I get home

 

If you don't delid the CPU, the CPU is still covered by Intel warranty, you don't have to delid, it's just a good idea for better cooling.

Make sure you get the original receipts from the Silicon Lottery CPU purchase, so you can get warranty service through Intel - LPC might also be happy to handle warranty service as they are the original purchasers.

 

Ok, I'm on a laptop now. First off, let me just apologize because maybe I was coming off as a bit headstrong, or at least that's the vibe I was getting from some of your responses. I was typing on my phone since my laptop is at the sager factory, and so I was trying to be concise, but maybe I was coming off as terse.

I was really asking honestly why if LPC/Sager agreed to refund the CPU price, why I was want to pay money and time, and give up the warranty just for a SiliconLottery cpu. The reason I was asking that was because I was hoping this cpu had some clear advantages that I wasn't considering. I was typing an email to Larry at LPC asking him to do this for me, and as I was typing I was realizing I didn't even want him to say yes because I couldn't see the advantages.

And I'm sorry, but if the "advantage" is only in the overclocking, I don't want to do that while without warranty. I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about Phoenix, but I'm not going to feel safe doing it just because a complete stranger on the internet told me the chances of failure are 1 in a million.

Secondly, while I would certainly want a CPU that can overclock while playing CPU intensive games like the division, I would NEVER want my cpu to be constantly running at 4.4ghz. Going back to the car analogy, here's a McLaren P1... doesn't matter if you're just going down the street, it will always drive at 217MPH, no matter what you're doing or where you're going. Just doesn't sound appealing, at least not for more than a minute.

In the end, it comes down to this:

Advantages of going with siliconlottery CPU (if reseller even agreed to pay for any of it):
-Guaranteed overclockable with stable non-throttling temperatures.
-Processes that can actually benefit from the higher clock would feel slightly snappier (far and few between in everyday processes if you ask me, but the Division and my work-related programs would be a great one for this)

Disadvantages of going with siliconlottery CPU:
-More time without my laptop (again, I use this for work too)
-More money spent (minimum $20, but possibly up to $400 or more?)
-Loss of warranty that I already paid for
-Chance of there being no effective difference between stock CPU from warranty, and siliconlottery cpu
-Chance of failure, however small, now becomes a $400 loss rather than a free replacement

You may disagree, but for me, the disadvantages hugely outweigh the advantages.

 

If you can't see the benefit from everything that @Phoenix and I have already said, another email in response saying the same things isn't going to help.

Good luck

 

Ok but I was trying to clearly list for you the advantages and disadvantages, with the hopes that you might point out something I missed somewhere. If you have no response, then I think I have my answer... and thank you for your suggestions.

You might consider that you learned something here as well..

 

The good thing about the Silicon Lottery CPU is even if you were to run it at stock speeds, it is guaranteed to have lower temps, so you would never ever have temp issues. Heck, your fans would spin less as they only go on full blast after reaching a certain thermal threshold.

With my previous 6700K, I wasn't happy with it even @ 4.2 GHz. I certainly don't want to play and hear the fans on max blast with the CPU temp reaching 93C++ in gaming.

Now I play around 60C. If that's not worth it to you, then I understand, just go with the replacement CPU and hope for the best

 

Good luck @Jakamo5 please come back and let us know how it works out.

 

Certainly not trying to nitpick, but how can it be guaranteed to have lower temps? I understand the ones from siliconlottery will go through intensive quality control and they even delid them themselves (right?) and then test them to make sure temps are fantastic, but in the end these are the exact same technology as the stock ones, so assuming the stock one I get is a good batch and the IHS was configured correctly in the first place, the temps will be just as low.

My point is, I agree you're paying a premium for peace of mind here, getting the Best of the Batch, but you also have a chance of getting the best of the batch in stock as well, and for me, that peace of mind is entirely negated when I no longer have warranty, which itself innately provides the most peace of mind there is.

 

Here is how:

1) The advertised speed on Silicon Lottery was tested WITHOUT delidding. Meaning, when they say that X CPU was stable in their stress testing for hours at 4.8 GHz. How low of a temp do you think it would generate at stock speeds? Much much less.

It is the silicon lottery, every CPU has silicon imperfections, some more than others. The golden chips like the ones picked by Silicon Lottery, since they have less silicon imperfections, operate at lower temps. That's the whole reason why 1 cpu overclocks better than the other, it's the heat, how much heat a CPU generates at a certain workload / stress. Thus, it is guaranteed that a 4.8 GHz or 4.6 GHz Silicon Lottery CPU will run much cooler at stock speeds. After all, that's how it is able to achieve a higher clock speed and survive the stress tests

2) If the 4.8 GHz was attainable without Delidding, then imagine if it was delidded, even cooler by 10C = better (optional choice offcourse)

 

Where did this incorrect assumption come from? Where are you getting that you have no warranty if you use another part?

The Intel warranty covers the CPU - it's tested not physically changed. You use the sales receipt as proof of purchase and redeem the warranty from Intel, or LPC could assume that task as part of the laptop warranty.

If you get the CPU delidded your warranty is void, but that's an option, not the default. Don't do it if you want a CPU warranty.

Your laptop warranty isn't void if LPC install the SL CPU for you. They could handle the warranty for you with Intel, and if not you can work with Intel to get a warranty replacement.

There is no loss of warranty

You should let LPC know that SL has a 14 day full refund return policy, so they should do a swift turn around after getting the CPU from SL to test it and make sure it survived shipment ok. SL also provides a 30 day warranty, then it's up to Intel warranty for coverage.
https://siliconlottery.com/pages/returns

 

I don't know why he has this mentality that the CPU is going to fail or go bad after a while. In all my 15 years of buliding / overclocking / abusing PCs, not one CPU went bad.

Really, the way I see it, you have to physically damage a CPU / its pins to have it fail and even then, that wouldn't be covered under warranty since it's physical damage.

Warranty is there to protect against manufacturer defects. Say you buy a component and when receiving it, it doesn't work, you get it replace with warranty. But a CPU, it either woriks or not. It's not like on a limited lifespan. With this concept in mind, getting a Silicon Lottery CPU that has been tested / stressed to operate at high clocks with manageable temps, means it will run super cool at stock, means, warranty is a m00t point here.

 

.....

 

.....

 

One more thing....

Intel Retail Box states:

"Unlocked Processor Warning: Altering frequency or voltage may cause damage and is not warranted by Intel."

So I'll ask you, where did YOUR incorrect assumption come from that a third party overclocked undervolted processor IS covered by Intel warranty? Now if you want to revert it to stock and pretend it was always at stock, that's your own unethical decision and as an engineer and general good person, I don't condone.

Regardless, like I just pointed out when you guys contradicted each other, we're talking about a silicon lottery cpu where half the advantages come from the delidding, and that voids warranty, as you yourself pointed out.

 

a CPU does not reach your overclocked buddy. They have just tested it that it will operate fine at that clock speed. You will receive it stock obviously since a CPU itself has no control of how it operates, it's the motherboard settings and/or Intel Extreme Tuning utility program that determine at what clock speed/voltage it operates. Plus, Intel has no way of finding out at what speed was a certain CPU was operated. They just state that to cover their butt. *as in officially* Any manufacturer would do the same

 

You are reading the wrong box

The Intel K processors have a warranty that allows tuning.

Update: If you plan to OC/Tune outside of CPU specifications, you need the added warranty coverage of this plan. Call Intel to check with them before purchase.

Performance Tuning Protection Plan
Allows a single replacement for your qualified processor, in addition to your standard 3 year warranty
http://click.intel.com/tuningplan/

Intel announced this as part of the Skylake rollout, but tuning has been covered for many years. All of my Intel CPU's for my personal hardware are unlocked, and covered by warranty for overclocking.

Neither of us are recommending anything unethical.

Like I said before, you are coming from a dark place, you need to come back into the light

 

Plus, why are we even talking about this? I thought you are going to get your CPU replacement officially from you reseller. So there is no point in convincing you of the Silicon Lottery benefits. It's not like we work for them or get commission. We are trying to offer you the peace of mind and a guaranteed solution, but you seem to like to go the long route and enjoy waiting for RMA so be it.

 

Ok so now I should buy a silicon lottery cpu that I won't delid and won't undervolt or overclock? So... all the advantages, gone?

 

No he is not reading a wrong box. He is reading all negativity that he wants. You either see the glass half full or half empty. He sees the latter.

I'm out of this thread, it's damaging my brain cells.

 

You're taking it personally and I'm sorry for that, but I have to point out again, the "long" route is trying to convince them to take the third party cpu, and waiting for the cpu to get to the factory. RMA is much shorter... all other advantages aside.

 

THATS pride.

For the record, I see the glass as ONLY half full. It's called ambition and being able to see from multiple perspectives. You may not be making commission, but your point of view isn't exactly unbiased, now is it?

 

Actually I'm not the reading anything wrong. What is the Performance Tuning Protection Plan? ?
The Performance Tuning Protection Plan is an additional plan that a customer can purchase to cover processor failures caused by operating the eligible processor outside of Intel’s published specifications.

 

We haven't contradicted each other, and those statements were perfectly aligned. You are reading things into them that aren't there if you think anything Phoenix and I have said is contradictory.

Phoenix doesn't care about the warranty. Phoenix recommends delidding, and so do I. As Phoenix said, the warranty is mostly for the initial out of the box failure - and I chimed in that the infant mortality failures will be covered by the 1 month SL warranty.

You keep getting stuck on wanting a warranty so I let you know that you don't need to get it delidded if you still want the Intel warranty, the binned CPU and delidding a CPU are 2 different line items. It's up to you.

It is an advantage to get it delidded, but the 4.8ghz CPU passing the binning tests shows it's already got a great IHS and so delidding isn't required - but we still recommend it.

 

Read the post above the one you just posted. Overclock/undervolt is not covered by intel warranty without purchasing an additional plan. The only warranty you have is the one from your reseller, and that's out the window with the third party item. So, if you want the warranty (which I do), then its not just the delidding, its the overclocking and undervolting that you can't do either. And if you can't do that, then the minimal siliconlottery advantages that were there in the first place are now gone.


I get it, you don't care about warranty, you don't care about the additional time. I think I've beat a dead horse here in explaining that to me, those things are both important, but you guys can't seem to view it from my perspective.

Pheonix is clearly mad that I pointed out that a siliconlottery cpu and a stock cpu can be exactly the same. The silicon lottery cpus are simply cherry picked, and then by option are delidded to ensure the original IHS job is well done. Chances are better than they are worse that the stock batch is good and the delidding was done well enough the first time. Take into account then that these are both the exact same technology, and you have the exact same result.

 

The K processors specifications cover changing the frequency and overclocking. They are unlocked, they allow under warranty overclocking. Intel have stated this publicly many times.

Spoiler

adding videos as I dig them up, looking for the Skylake announcement video where Intel states that their new K processors allow under warranty overclocking and tuning, I just need to find it

Intel® -K Series Technology


The Skylake Build, Part 1 | #ExpertMode Ep. 5 | Intel - check out the series

The Intel Tuning Plan lets you add that coverage to your non-K processors, like the one from the box you were reading from. It is an older plan than the current one offered with the Skylake K processors.

Correction / Update: The Intel K/Extreme CPU's warranty doesn't cover using the unlocked features you paid for, you need to purchase the unbundled Intel Performance Tuning Protection Plan in order to get coverage for tuning related failures when OC'ing outside specifications.

Intel Performance Tuning Protection Plan
Allows a single replacement for your qualified processor, in addition to your standard 3 year warranty. Learn More
http://click.intel.com/tuningplan/
http://click.intel.com/tuningplan/purchase-a-plan

If your vendor used a tray CPU, then you can't personally buy protection as the Intel Performance Tuning Protection Plan is only available for Intel Boxed CPU's, but instead you need to rely on the vendor for coverage - double check to make sure they cover CPU OC / tuning before buying.