Clevo 2020

Nothing has been announced.

Weight, cost, complexity and reliability for the water colling.

Larger fans only buy you so much airflow with the style of fan in use.

 

It has mxm gpu according to this Chinese website: https://digi.163.com/20/0113/08/F2OOUBEM001697V8.html

 

Would be interesting to give larger fans a try but then that's not really in the cards with a shrinking chassis and on top of that there may be a lack of models that are both quiet and powerful to choose from above a certain size, similar to how it is with screens.

 

That would be cool if Clevo came out with a new P570WM replacement. X299 chipset! 9980XE support.

I guess a socketed Zen 2 would be fine too though.

 

So google translate doesn't do a great job but are they saying X170SM will support Ryzen series CPUs?

 

Are you talking about that XMG 3900x Clevo model?

 

Large and powerful machines (300w plus) have never really been quiet. You just don't get any passive cooling.

 

I found the gaming laptops I have had to be very quiet when used for lighter tasks, they just aren't quiet when gaming. My GT75 on battery for example can run with fans off most of the time and temperatures for GPU and CPU do not even go above 50 degrees.

 

As does mine unless a background task gets thirsty.

 

So they can be really quiet in everyday use like office work, watching videos or webbrowsing, let's not give the impression that they are always loud

 

You can make them quiet in gaming too. My P750TM1-G has a 8086K in it, and I can run such a huge undervolt at 4.3-4.7Ghz that the CPU will run like 58C-62C with 50% fan speed during a full 100% load. So, running a silent fan profile is very possible with while still getting crazy fast desktop performance. Then run the GTX1080 at 1,860@ 0.900V core and it will stay well under 90C and will not downclock either.

 

Release a brand new model with soon EOL chipset and socket is never a good idea.

 

I will wait for the 17" ORIGIN PC version. Those guys will throw in a Ryzen 9 3950X, 3900X, or simply overclock the 3900 up to the 3950X level. Dell bought Alienware from them only to f*ck it up. My m17x r4 is still going strong and I was about to get the Area 51m only to be disappointed by the Dell non mxm gpu.

 

Sure. The cooling is designed around 65w chips. 3900X/3950x is 105W. What's the point if you can't cool it? I have never seen they have developed own fans and heatsink.

For the records... 9900K ain't easy cool with 65W heatsink design

 

The 15" has the 65w cpu based on its small cooling capability. The 17" (x170) that I want has 340w cooling capacity which is enough for a 125w cpu. The current ORIGIN PC' Clevo has the option of 9900K and RTX 2080 mxm.

 

The question is... Will it get AMD chips? This is up to Clevo. Not the OEM's as Origin Pc, HiD, Eurocom etc. Double developement for same laptop (Intel and AMD chips) cost a lot money.

 

Clevo will offer it if the OEM's request it. The 15" Ryzen Clevo was displayed by XMG not Clevo. Currently, only XMG plans to sell it. A representative of XMG said they will offer the 17" Ryzen too if the 15" sells well. They don't have other options since Intel is stacked with 14++++++++. The 10900K next in line is rumored to have more than 300W TDP.

https://thetimeshub.in/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/02c64d20f9e581ea767ba2f36c7b5a8e.png

 

You think they will develope, validate and make a Ryzen system of this model for maybe one single OEM? You can do the math and see this will cost $$$$. Oh' well we will have to see if your dream come true. Maybe @Prema could come up with some hints.

For the records. Clevo wont support the i9-10900K in x170. The 8 core i7-10700K will be the top sku. You'll need a Prema mod for 10900K.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/official-clevo-x170sm-g-owners-lounge.831618/#post-10982548

 

Schenker may very well be their single biggest partner so it is not completely out of the question that it is an exclusive model but I would also doubt it.

Having the highest clock speeds only in 10+ core processors is a big issue for laptops that have shrinking chassis sizes across the board when a bigger chassis and better cooling would be needed to deal with these new monster CPU's.

I also doubt that the TDP of the upcoming top of the line Nvidia offerings will come down so overall these are tough times for high performance laptops.

 

Resellers are given a choice on models, it's not down to exclusivity.

 

If my 50% fan speed with the P870DM-G is any indication that is not exactly quiet but still 50% is very bearable compared to the fans blowing at 100%!

That is the strength of a well calibrated modular chassis with a certain amount of cooling capability and configurability:

you can - within limits - choose the graphics card and CPU that fits your needs
you can delid the CPU and fine tune other parts of the cooling system
you can undervolt the CPU and GPU
you can do various fan- and overclocking/usage-profiles that apply to various use cases

And then you end up with a very capable machine that gives you 90+ % of performance and a very nice acceptable noise level where in less demanding tasks you will not hear the fans at all.

 

P870DM-G and its 5v fans are MUCH quieter than the 12v fans in the DMx, KM, TM models. I had a P870DM-G for almost 3 years before moving to a P870TM1-G and the noise level is on another level. 100% fan on a P870DM-G is maybe 50% on a TM1.

I found 50% on the P870DM-G was much quieter than even my desktop even in a silent room. It was barely intrusive at all. It was probably the quietest gaming laptop I've ever owned. Even benching @ 100% fan speed wasn't soul crushing like the TM

 

That does not sound good about the noise level as my DM-G usually runs at less than 20% and that is the noise level I like unless I demand top performance of course. I already consider 50% on the DM-G as quite loud but then I always made sure that my desktop PC's were really quiet so the laptops had to adhere to a similar standard. I'll have a look at the P775TM and I am already bracing myself for an unpleasant noise level...

 

Ha!, 65w is the actual TDP of the 3900 CPU!!

My 3700x is also rated at 65w and I can OC it past 4505mhz all core with enough cooling, well past 65w -- hitting 95w+ sustained with peaks well over 100w. For daily driver I run it at 4343mhz all core - less power draw and cooler temps.

My 65w 3700x benchmarks well past the stock 105w rated 3800x. Or, I can run it stock for less power draw and lower temps.

As long as the firmware doesn't lock it down you should get great performance from that AMD Ryzen 3900 65w.

The link you gave in your post summaries it nicely:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-9-3900-review-eco-mode

OUR VERDICT
The Ryzen 9 3900 offers incredible performance-per-watt within a friendlier 65W TDP envelope, which equates to less power consumption and lighter cooling requirements, for:

• Low power consumption
• Less thermal output
• PCIe 4.0 interface
• Overclocking support

And, you can re-tune the 3900 to be more like the 3900x if the cooling and power delivery are up to it, just like you can with the 65w 3700x vs the 105w 3800x.

 

The 3700x 65w part draws 165w system in the chart, while the 105w 3800x draws 194w system power. Those include the higher power draw of the x570 chipset, which Clevo isn't using**.

The 3900 65w part at stock is likely not much more power draw than the 3800x, probably less, and if the laptop cooling and power design can handle an all core 9900ks @ 5.0ghz, it can handle a fully OC'd 3900, or a highly binned 3950x.

3900x owners that upgraded to the 3950x say that the 3950x draws less power and puts out less heat doing the same jobs than their 3900x's.

I think Clevo should be wise enough to plan for cooling the CPU at maximum OC tuning, so if they are there's gonna be plenty of performance to be had, even starting with a 65w part.

There will be a lot of interesting AMD laptops coming out, and for the most part the top end desktop parts aren't the interesting part of the story for most people; I expect there will be far more laptops with the new AMD Ryzen 4000U/H and 5xxxM parts.

Desktop CPU / GPU parts in laptops whether AMD or Intel is still a rare thing. Hopefully Clevo will offer a wide range of the top end AM4 parts and desktop GPU's in their offerings moving forward.

**I thought the Clevo 3900 build wasn't using a x570 chipset motherboard, so Clevo will save power by using a B450 based motherboard, less system power draw and no need for active chipset cooling.

 

The 3900 will be offered from the OEM and we have the silicon lottery. Get a dude and <it works as intended> and you can't return it and ask for something better. This isn't the way I prefer buy products. If I get a Cpu dude I normally return it. Do the same with the whole machine and hope for the best is a lottery in bigger scale.

Yeah, it's a IF...

The new models cooling is designed around what Cpu's the maufacturer will add into it. If the cooling was intended for 9900KS power consumption it would works ok. We will soon enough see what they have cooked together

One thing not mentioned... AMD chips need high clocked memory sticks with decent timings. A huge problem on last gen AMD notebooks. Not getting proper mem support is and can be a major problem. Either crippled due firmware or a MB not suited well for more than stock specs. This is a major problems from most Notebook brands models.

 

According to official AMD specification, 65W CPUs have a total package power limit of 88W, and 105W CPUs have a limit of 142W.

 

The package power is what I reported, and it definitely passes 88w when I load the cores up with work: prime95 small FFT's, CB20, full browers + playing a movie + interactive load of a full day of use package power hits 91w - PPT 88w and sustains around that maximum, even detuned from maximum OC on daily settings, with a max temp of 67c:

AMD's "limits" are at stock and variable with tuning as I was explaining in my earlier posts. You can limit the power if you like as well, but I have adequate cooling to support sustained load at more than the rated power, it's tuned back a bit, but just a bit.

Ryzen 3700X 65W uses 76W
Question asked by sacharja on Sep 29, 2019
Latest reply on Nov 30, 2019 by sacharja
https://community.amd.com/thread/243990

 

I think you meant "dud", not "dude"

I would imagine if you are interested in a Silicon Lottery 3900x in your build the boutique sellers will be happy to oblige, I don't think Clevo will drop microcode pieces to remove support for other CPU's. If you've got the microcode that supports the 3900 you have support for the 3900x too.

If Clevo is revving their AMD AGESA microcode support as needed for performance boosts and fixes, the microcode for new CPU's will come with. It would be worth trying the 3950x as it's supposed to draw less power and put out lower thermals doing the same work as the 3900x.

Yup, they want to sell laptops and if they are building in a 3900 they know the buyer wants high CPU performance and the buyer will be loading all the cores with 100% CPU jobs, so they better have a big buffer of thermal performance waiting for those jobs.

Actually you can go high clock or low latency - or both, which is expensive.

I'm running 3200mhz 32GB x 2 @ CL16 - 64GB for $289, and there is a small hit to potential performance not being CL14, but it's the trade off - and always has been - for going with large memory.

There are supposed to be 3200mhz CL14 32GB dimms coming, and 3600 CL16+, but I think 3200mhz CL14 @ 1600mhz fabric is good enough.

2020 should be a great year for AMD laptops, I'm looking forward to them.

 

Yes, 88W/142W are the default PPT values. Analogous to Intel's TDP/PL1 (although Intel's value is for base clock).

 

Gamers nexus did a video on how the TDP figure is a nonsense value.

 

Personally I can see the appeal of an AMD CPU with a higher performance per watt with a steady 4.2 Ghz and at least 8 multithreaded cores but gamers like to shoot for 5 GHz even if that is only for fewer cores at a time.

As of now it seems Intel still has the best CPU's for that job and with the new processors they seem determined to keep that edge so I would expect them to again dominate the biggest gaming laptops until AMD catches up in top speed.

 

There's various AMD content in the CES 2020 thread:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ts-video-articles.831509/page-6#post-10984693

There's one I posted recently that has good info on the new AMD 7nm Ryzen 4000 mobile CPU's with laptop integration examples:

AMD discusses the world's first 7nm mobile CPU
Jan 7, 2020
PCWorld
Gordon chats with AMD's Senior Director of Product Management David McAfee about the launch of Ryzen 4000 mobile CPUs, why more cores matter in a laptop, and power efficiency.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ts-video-articles.831509/page-6#post-10984942

 

Anyone knows if we will see laptops with pci-e gen 4 internal ssds? The speed improvements are really nice but I never saw a laptop with one of those.

 

So far it looks like AMD is going with PCIE 3.0 for the new laptops, as is the Clevo 3900 based on the B450 (PCIE 3.0), so far I haven't heard of any PCIE 4.0 AMD laptops - using the x570 chipset, which needs more cooling and draws more power than the previous PCIE 3.0 chipsets.

AMD Does Not Believe Its Mobility Processors Require PCIe 4.0 Right Now
By Usman Pirzada, 4 hours ago
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...laris-navi-gpus.799348/page-728#post-10984272

The good news is even on a PCIE 3.0 chipset, the Gen 4 SSD's are fastest - completely saturating the bandwidth of the PCIE 3.0 chipset - so it's still worth getting one to use on PCIE 3.0 now and bringing it with you when you upgrade to PCIE 4.0 down the road:

Initial test on empty 2TB MP600 PCIE 4.0 drive on a B450 PCIE 3.0:


After some use:

 

Unfortunately that's true

 

PCI-e 4 is power hungry and for most applications it's not worth it.

 

The Clevo NH57ADS looks good...

The World's MOST POWERFUL 15" Gaming laptop - 12 CORES!
Jan 11, 2020
OWNorDisown
Correction: From AMD the 3900 can indeed be tuned for voltage and frequency, it's unlocked and overclockable.
The Clevo NH57ADS is a 15" Gaming laptop with a desktop AMD 65w CPU, up to a Ryzen 9 3900. Base clock 3.1 Ghz, Max boost 4.3 Ghz. Its based on the B450 chipset and socket AM4 so provided you can get an updated BIOS it provides a good degree of futureproofing. The GPU uses a 115W GPU so the RTX 2070 Max P is a good fit. It can have 64 GB RAM, and has 2 x m.2 slots and 1 x 2.5" bay for storage plus Wifi 6. It also has a removable 62 Wh battery and only weighs 5.95 lbs (2.7 kgs) Width: 36.1 cm / 14.21" Depth: 25.8cm / 10.15" This will be available on www.eluktronics.com


CES 2020: Clevo & XMG Prepare Notebooks w/ 12-Core AMD Ryzen 9 3000 CPUs
by Anton Shilov on January 14, 2020 2:00 PM EST
https://www.anandtech.com/show/1537...pare-notebooks-w-12core-amd-ryzen-9-3000-cpus

The sticker on the laptop says it's the first, but the article corrects that:

" For the sake of truth, it is necessary to note that Clevo’s NH57ADS is not the first DTR notebook to feature a desktop AMD Ryzen processor. ASUS introduced its ROG Strix GL702ZC with an eight-core AMD Ryzen 7 1700 back in late 2017, but that was a 17.3-inch machine."

 

First ryzen 3 series destkop replacement would be more accurate.

 

Clevo NH5xAx Ryzen models are not exclusive to any reseller.

 

Yep, Intel dominates the per core battle with raw frequency. If you need serious multi threading (>10 cores), then AMD becomes a serious option and at a certain point is the clear and logical choice.

JayZTwoCents just updated their 2020 rig to a 9900ks precisely for that reason. They were starting to see bottlenecking in games that were CPU capped.



I run a 9900k @ 5.2 that passed all my stability criteria *on air* no problem. For my needs, I don't see an AMD chip that will top my 4-8 core performance.

You can keep flinging tons of cores at the performance crown problem, but up to a certain point, actual performance per core is the primary criteria....and yes, this is where overclocking shines, but even without overclocking, the 9900ks @ 5ghz stock all cores is a monster unless your workflow requires a very large amount of cores.

 

Anyone have a guess at the timeframe for NH57ADS availability? I figured we wouldn't see anything until at least Q2 but I'm hoping for some dates or announcements sooner than later.

 

Interesting video and another proof that for utmost performance in CPU heavy games an Intel 5+ GHz CPU will still be king.

Your 5.2 GHz aren't too shabby either!

 

Plenty of games are CPU bottlenecked and GPU bottlenecked depending on the action in the game.

Far cry new dawn

Kingdom come deliverance

Battlefield 5

I have tested all of these with my CPU at default 4.3Ghz, and at 5.1Ghz. I can literally see the higher GPU utilization at 5.1Ghz. With the exception of BF5 as I can only run 5Ghz in that title due to AVX.

^ A 9900K doesn’t help at all in any of these titles, even though I use to think it would. But these games pretty much perform the same with 12 threads or 16 threads. And only the clock speed of the cpu improves performance greatly!

My GPU utilization drops are not to bad due to me only having a GTX1080, but I can still see as low as 82-88% GPU usage if the CPU gets really really hammered with a lot of explosions and action going on. More slower cores are not going to help me at all.

 

When you get to higher resolutions like 1440p and up that goes away a fair bit on the CPU side.

 

Resurrecting this. I've experimented with the Core/IA VR Domain "AC/DC Loadline" setting, 210 being bios default and trying setting 160 for 9th gen spec.

CBR15 5Ghz x47 cache
AC/DC 210
VID ~1.275v
Max temp 85c
Package draw: 165.7W
Offset: -120mV

CBR15 5Ghz x47 cache
AC/DC 160
VID ~1.305v
Package draw: 162.7W
Max temp: 80c
Offset: -100mV

Setting System Agent VR AC/DC to 160 instead of the default 0 shows no effect.


@Falkentyne @ole!!! @Papusan

 

yea i already tested that with 8700k i put ac/dc at 1. but only 3w for a 5c difference seems kinda too much though i dont remember the numbers anymore as i got 8cores now. in my test i also got about 3-5c lower for 6 cores, thign is with 8 cores, having ac/dc at 1 means I can't boot at 5ghz it'll just crash, i needed it to lower bios multiplier to like 47x to be able to boot at ac/dc at 1.

 

alright, can't reproduce those results no more, not sure whats wrong with my system lmao.
heres what i've got.

ambient ~19C
80% single fan (~65% relative to fn+1)
4 consecutive runs nonstop to heat up heatsink
-------------------------------
CBR15 48x 35x HT off
AC/DC 210
Low core: 77C
Max core: 82C
Avg temp: 80C
Package draw: 102.5W
Offset: -190mV

CBR15 48x 35x HT off
AC/DC 40
Low core: 74C
Max core: 79C
Avg temp: 77C
Package draw: 108.5W
Offset: -15mV

so somehow I can get higher wattage but less temp this literally makes no sense. I went back and test each settings twice too and it is consistent and made sure no throttling. not sure whats going on here.

 

The package power draw is only an estimate. Higher temps will always reflect in real voltage. Remember there ain't any Voltage sensor. Package power will only be estimated from Vid. Tricking with AC Loadline in combination with fake voltage won't give proper results. Either put 160 or 210 for AC Loadline and call it a day. The differences is minor.