Clevo 2020

What about when you compare 210 to 160? On my end the reported VID was higher at 160 (1.305v) compared to 210 (1.245v), yet lower temp and slightly lower package draw.

@Prema on setting AC/DC to "1"
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/clevo-overclockers-lounge.788975/page-1611#post-10748293

 

210 to 160 has little to no change. going down 50 would mean you need to up voltage at least 50mv so voltage reading will always be higher. 8700k was fine at ac/dc value of 1, I couldnt even get it past booting into windows 3/5 times at ac/dc 40 for the 9900ks and would constantly crash, at 60 it was more stable.

210 - 60 would mean i'd need to up the voltage around 150mv but resulting in lower temp by only ~3C. im sure with using 2nd fan + max fan this would come to ~5C or more. temp difference will only show when its really stressed.

I did find out something interesting maybe @unclewebb and @Mr. Fox could explain. changing the voltage value in TS under cache instead of core has no effect on load voltage instead has effect on idle voltage/c-state. normally voltage would be around 0.75v when on idle, now its 0.6v when its clocked down. this is great for battery use only using ~6w for 8 cores lmao.

 

Yes, I have the same observation. But, I do not have an explanation for it. I can also set a much higher negative offset on core voltage, as long as the cache voltage is not set too low. It's like the cache voltage controls the bottom end of the voltage rather than the top end.

 

I think reason I saw -5c lower max temps was that at '210' offset was -120mV, while at '160' offset was -100mV. Shame we don't have vcore to see what's going on behind the curtains.

 

The uncore which I believe it also covers does behave differently to the core in terms of clocking. There could also be voltage difference limits.

 

vcore/cache share the same rail on the 9900kx from my understanding.

With override voltage you could do "1", that way the VID would be equal to set voltage, I tried that with the 8086k. But the 9900K does not play well with override voltage and will trigger hard shutdown under load. Probably hitting the hw amperage limit.

Edit:

Some more testing with Fire Strike Physics 15min loop 5Ghz x47

AC/DC 210
Offset: -130mV
Max temp: 93c
VR VCC: 55c
Package power draw: 130.461W

AC/DC 160
Offset: -100mV
Max temp: 88c
VR VCC: 54c
Package power draw: 126.671W

Only change at 210 LLC was I was able to increase the undervolt to -130mV from -120mV and still keep stability in other applications.

 

Override voltage on laptops controls "VID", not "Vcore", but laptops use adaptive voltage regardless of what the option says. The "Adaptive" voltage setting uses Intel vCPU (base VID), while the "Override" setting reprograms base VID to the override setting.

vCPU is VID when ACLL and DCLL are both set to 0.01 mOhms (1)
LLC=Loadline Calibration from VRM (usually 1.6 mOhms on 8 core and 2.1 mOhms on 6 core)
Set DCLL=ACLL=0.01 and remember Vcpu (Vcpu=VID in this case) in idle and low/high load
Set DCLL=0.01 ACLL=LLC and remember ACLL droops (ACLL_droop=VID-Vcpu from (1)) in idle and low/high load
Now we can calculate final VID:
VID=Vcpu-DCLL*I+ACLL_droop

VID=Vcpu+ACLL*dI (dI=I1-I0)

If ACLL=LLC (Loadline calibration):

VID=Vcpu-DCLL*I+ACLL_droop
Vcore=VID-vdroop+offset

Vcore=Vcpu-DCLL*I+ACLL_droop-LLC*I+offset.

Offset mode:
VID=Vcpu-DCLL*I+ACLL*dI
Vcore=VID-LLC*I+offset

It seems, on these laptops, while VID uses this formula, final vcore ignores the DC Loadline value.
Seems to be the same way on Gigabyte Z390. VR VOUT ignores DC Loadline value.

I think only Asus boards use both AC and DC Loadline to determine vcore in offset mode while most other systems only use AC Loadline and LLC and voffset.

 

Since mobile 20x0super series is launching right around the corner, I think it's safe to assume that the x170 is shipping with this option.

 

I really hope sager comes out with something comparable to the Asus ROG Zephyrus G14 with the 4900HS or the 4800.

The reviews make anything intel has out right now look like trash. (unless you get an extremely thick and expensive laptop.

 

I really hope not. The G14 is undesirable to me:

• One RAM module is soldered, so you can't upgrade the terrible 3200MHz CL22 it comes with
• 120Hz IPS panel is disgustingly ghosty at 22ms GTG response time
• CPU-limited gaming performance trails the i7-9750H
• Has only 1/4 the L3 cache as desktop Zen2
• GPU is Max-Q
• CPU/GPU temps aren't great despite the low TDPs

 

There's just something very unsettling with having a JEDEC CL22

 

https://videocardz.com/newz/schenker-clevo-xmg-apex-15-comes-with-16-core-ryzen-9-3950x

A new beast is coming to town?
3950x 16cores in a 15" desktop replacement

 

"Their new ultra-high-end laptop will support AMD Ryzen 3000 CPUs up to 65W for AM4 socket."

I wonder how VRMs are set up on that thing, and if they can handle pushing more than 65w... with a touch of @Prema magic.

 

https://www.computerbase.de/2020-03/xmg-apex-15-ryzen-notebook/

Some really cool benchmarks here

Waiting for a 17" version

Enviado do meu ASUS_I001DC através do Tapatalk

 

I hope we get to see that. And since Intel hasn't got an answer for 3950X, we might even get HEDT back in laptops.

 

The 3950x is the very reason why you would not see the HEDT platform hitting notebooks, there is no real point.

 

Oh, but there is. Just like being able to run +5Ghz 8 core laptops. (because we can)

 

• 65W TDP reduces performance in CineBench by ~20% compared to 105W
• No XMP support, so again PnP RAM will run at JEDEC timings only

 

Hopefully this will be by passable with a custom BIOS. We'll see

Enviado do meu ASUS_I001DC através do Tapatalk

 

But not enough of a reason to sacrifice an awful lot when it's going to give the same performance in regular applications. The size of the socket alone is a huge issue.

 

No Gsync or better yet, Freesync (with range of 30-144 hz) ?
It would be a best buy with rtx 2070+30-144 hz Freesync display+amd 3700 CPU.

 

G-sync would be a better option in terms of quality.

 

Just pair the laptop with a graphics card that is powerfull enough to push the frames to match the refresh.

 

I find the performance of the 3950X acceptable at 65W. The only issue is that battery life is RIP.
The only thing I miss in these modern laptops is the MXM slot...

 

They replaced those with +300Hz panels, but have no graphics power to even push over 60 fps.

 

The desktop has never been smoother though

 

But I like my mouse trails.

 

They have to spice up the sales with something new and innovative to cover the lack of what's count for gaming.

 

They might as well pair it with a sack of potatoes, at least they can be used as a makeshift battery.

 

Good old 640x480 passive matrix lcd from the 90s for the ultimate windows experience

 

Do you guys think we will see 3950x in other laptops? Maybe the new clevo x170?

It seems a lot better than 10th gen Intel they will use.

Also I am interested in x170 due to better design and micro led screen.

Also not sure why they put this much power in a 15 inch. You would think they would use 17 for better cooling.

I would love to have this cpu with micro led 4k screen, 128gb ram, strong gfx and good chassis design and build.

 

It would be great, although they would need to seriously up the cooling capabilities if they want to push unified heatsink design for AM4.

 

Is it a Clevo @Meaker@Sager ?

 

Yes, it’s the NH57ADS.

 

Yeah, it's good to see a start. I think the new APUs could also be very potent.

 

The thing about XMP though is XMP profiles always have complete trash secondary and tertiary timings that cripple performance. You'd think the manufacturer would tailor the XMP profile to what their particular memory can handle, but they don't. They just blindly set all timings insanely high to put minimal effort into selling at the highest advertised speed as possible. You're better off just overclocking and tuning the default JEDEC 2133 profile in BIOS.

That power limit is definitely an issue though with 16 cores. Hopefully the higher power limit can be enabled. 105W isn't that much to ask for from a decently designed 4 phase power circuit.

In general I am much more interested in an AM4 DTR than anything Intel has. Trade a slight loss in gaming performance in a few games for major gains elsewhere with much better power efficiency. Not to mention Intel deciding to screw everyone over by intentionally changing sockets regularly to prevent people from having the option to upgrade CPUs. The only negative for me is there is much less nerd tweaking to do for improvement on AMD systems, but you get something in the first place that is much better.

 

This is true, however XMP profiles offer an easy set-n-forget method of running high speed modules at their rated speed, without delving into the fuss that is manual RAM tuning. Most non JEDEC 2666+ modules simply won’t run at their rated speed without XMP support, since you can be sure that if the BIOS lacks XMP, it will also lack RAM tuning options.

Keep in mind that 65W processors have a PPT (power delivered to the socket) of 88W, while 105W processors have a PPT of 142W.

 

And they can set your VCCSA/VCCIO pretty high.

 

With AMD it's mostly a specific speed you are after anyway to for the right infinity fabric ratios. Then it's just a case of tuning timings.

 

Basically like MESH on Intel stuff.

 

Acer and Asus have offered AMD desktop chips in their notebooks. None of them is upgradeable Almost as BGA
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Leaked promo material confirms 5 GHz and above for the Intel Core i9-10900K and Core i7-10700K; Core i5-10600K could be a winner at the right price
Some marketing material for the Comet Lake-S desktop processors Intel Core i9-10900K, Core i7-10700K, and Core i5-10600K, has been leaked. A lot of the information has already been published online, including the impressive 5.3 GH...

 

https://hothardware.com/news/origin-pc-eon15-x-laptop-ryzen-9-3900x-zen-2

However, when even the 8-core/16-thread Ryzen 9 4900H isn't enough for your mobile needs, the folks over at ORGIN PC have something decidedly more powerful in mind. The company announced today that its EON15-X gaming laptop is now available with up to a Ryzen 9 3900X processor. As you probably already know, this is a desktop-class processor with a TDP of 105 watts compared to just 45 watts for the mobile-centric Sure. Why not just say it's crippled down to 65W TDP?

 

So, this is basically a Clevo P750 with an AMD 3900X CPU? Is that right?

 

Not sure. BGA graphics. I mean its called NH57ADS. Aka not from coming X series (if this will have a 15 inch model). It would be disgusting if Clevo don't release a new 15 inch replacement model for P750 with MXM graphics. I think Clevo only will offer Intel Cpu's for their High end.

 

12 cores are 4.3Ghz sounds way better than 65W Eco mode. But I bet that the 3950x is easier to cool than the 10 core 300W juice monkey.

 

Here's the 3950X laptop

 

@Papusan that 2070 looks to be BGA, so half turd. I'm also not liking the tripod mounting setup.
BGA card

Tripod mounting

 

Yees, this is not a replacement for P75x series. No thanks.

 

It has potential, if they were to have it in a 17" chassis, with beefier cooling and mxm cards, this would be a serious player.

The remarks about the bios, rather having working stuff than tons of unlocked options, had me laughing. Reminded me of the 'unlocked' Clevo bios vs Premamod.

 

Not sure if 3950X will be the best choice for 200w 2080 Super. And God knows how easy it will be with proper ram tuning. AMD is a new track. I expect it won't be perfect on first try.