Clevos with new 6-core Intel Mobile Cpus

The ambient room temperature was 25C.

Yes, I don't have the game. I'm not going to go and spend £30 just to prove a stranger on the internet wrong. You seem to own the game and you have a 7700HQ, so post a video of a scene in BF1 where the framerate is consistently under 60fps.

 

what about this one? is this clevo?

https://item.jd.com/7115401.html

 

I don't want to be annoying, but can you tell me if the keyboard is going to be German layout only? Any chance Portuguese would be available?

 

Not annoying at all. We have Portuguese keyboards for all our Clevo chassis (in total I think we have over 15 language keyboards across the whole laptop range), but your correct to ask because some non Clevo chassis we use are a little limited in terms of the languages we can offer. This is usually with more Ultrabook type chassis, where the keyboard is integrated. Though I have a work Schenker SLIM 13 (Clevo N130) with a UK layout keyboard - because I'm English! Have to switch the Windows keyboard setting to German pretty often of course when emailing in German, but my brain knows where the y and z are ;-)

Of course this new chassis isn't Clevo and today I can't confirm exactly which language keyboards we will have for the chassis you're asking about - however, we have a new option, a shiney and large laser machine in house which means we can laser Hieroglyphics onto blank keyboards if we want!!! The quality is the same as the original format letters from the factories in China and backlighting works in exactly the same way. It's still being tested for keyboards (we already use it for XMG/SCHENKER and also custom logos and artwork for both business and private customers) - but what I'm saying is that even if we don't have a Portuguese keyboard from the manufacturer in China, we will be able to laser them in house in a month or so

Also we just had delivered a UV printer which can do RGB printing on laptop lids, I feel like a child talking about it but it's a really cool piece of kit! Cost an arm and a leg, looks like something out of Skunkworks!

 

I downgraded my p150sm 4700mq uC and oced to 4.3ghz, early 90s in temps but still did not throttle, I did need to modify the heatsink, flatten it, and increase the pressure. But I agree with Chris about the new Clevo laptops, the cooling is sufficient but the quality control is absurd.
To Chris I doubt any game stresses the cpu more than OCCT or the likes. (with gpu stress test on for mobo/chassis temps) Its sad when my older laptop has much more powerful cpu than my current p650hs-g which is at 3.4ghz and runs near throttling point in games, while throttling ~5% (acc to occt) in stress test of both cpu and gpu. I did modify the heatsink, added more pressure and using liquid metal, only dropped ~6c, especially after adding braces to the mounting clamps, would probably have to shim it at an angle as the die and the heatsink are not centered.

 

Nope, it's from a chassis manufacturer that no one on the forum would have heard of so I wouldn't want to get into details as it'll derail the thread

 

Apologies, that was not my intention. But I did some more research and apparently it is a clevo, NB50TK1. https://www.zhihu.com/question/273389906/answer/368094940

 

@ravul, thanks for this link, this NB50TK1 seems perfect for my girlfriend as a budget powerful mobile station for CAD

@XMG , @clevo-extreme , @tanzmeister , @Donald@HIDevolution , @ Meaker@Sager, how soon?

 

Pcspecialist uk sell the new model , you can configure it since yesterday ( recoil2)
https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/notebooks/recoil-II-15/
Can’t wait for XMG model ;-)

 

Actually you're right. Sorry - I asked one of my colleagues in our Taiwan office and he didn't recognise the chassis so the information came from one of his contacts, that it was not Clevo!!! It's not a very accurate computer render of the chassis, which caused the confusion and hence he didn't recognise it at first look ;-)

 

No problem Please can you check with your contact, if it is possible to upgrade the processor to 8700?

 

No of course you're not, you just want to post videos of the game running on different machines.

Two people here provided their experience of it. Believe it or don't believe it, but why on earth should they bother recording a video of it for someone who has no valid reason to doubt their statements.

Finally, to give you an idea of how completely out of whack the perception of all these reps is with reality

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/clevo-650-hs-high-cpu-temps.801868/page-2#post-10473190

Player reports thermal throttling on well known cpu+gpu heavy titles, rep responds with his quality control methods using tests that are not heavy on the cpu and gpu on a machine with a shared heatpipe.

Unfortunately you guys are simply out of touch with the reality that thermal throttling is expected behaviour when using these machines on many recent titles.

This situation seems to only be getting worse as we are apparently well past the time when games were commonly gpu limited. Probably happened with the new generation of consoles.

A shame for this site and your customers you are giving out such misleading advice.

'Notebookreview' should really be a place where consumers can get accurate opinions from experienced users. Unfortunately much of the conversation seems to be dominated by reps peddling opinions that don't reflect the operating conditions of these computers.

Of course this is not a surprising situation when up until recently the only alternative was a desktop cpu in a laptop, and prior to that the gpus were as horribly cut down and underpowered as the cpus.

Must have been damned hard to convince people to buy them then.

Probably turn out to be a bit of an accident of history that they managed to stick a desktop gpu in a laptop this generation.

I dunno why, some damned electrical engineer can explain the details.

 

Hi guys i have for you teaser for my P955EP review
The i7-8750H in order to achieve max Turbo frequency needs much more than 45 W TDP cap.

 

Yes a 6 core will always need more juice than the Intel ratings to run at max turbo on all cores sustained. However turbo would kind of be pointless otherwise.

 

Yes but earlier H chips usually worked at max clocks during stress in 45 w TDP cap. These new ones only achieve stock Turbo clock only for very short period then significant drop (situation similar to U series). The 6 core, very high clocks compared to SKL/KBL and still although improved 14 nm process so this is no surprising.

 

Yeah, they work exactly as 8th Generation Intel® Core™ i7 Uv Processors

Look into reviews of those 8th gen Intel Uv processors in Notebookcheck.net and you will see all of them throttle down speed after the first round Cinebench R15

 

Hi i don't have too i had enough i7-8500U which lose against i5-8250U with factory 20 wat TDP up...
Last one
https://pclab.pl/art73405-3.html

 

Looking forward to your review!
Hope to get my hands on one of the new systems to remove the combined load throttle in the Prema Mod.
Hope they also give you a PA7 with 9850HK soon...

 

Thx but it will take some time to do (will post link when ready)

I would like PA7 with i9 but none of resellers in Poland has it from what i know....

 

Sorry for delay but review is up https://pclab.pl/art77861-3.html
(in polish)

 

Seems they have the same ludicrous thermals as the competing BGA turdbooks. This is status quo for the industry, unfortunately. Clevo's competitors face the same curse. Even with a comparatively weak CPU and an emasculated Max-Q GPU, such a modest form factor struggles to maintain acceptable temperatures.


Seems to be the same thermal management defects as what was reported here: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Eurocom-Q6-i7-8750H-GTX-1070-Max-Q-FHD-Laptop-Review.306110.0.html

 

I'm not really understanding this at all, I do engineering stuff(cant be called engineer because I didn't finish my masters..), how can an engineering/design team that is tasked to design the laptop/motherboard and cooling solution fail so hard all across the board?

Did Intel QC/ES/sample CPU's ran cooler due to being better binned/lower TDP?

There has to be something more to the whole story that all notebook designers suck, there laptops that can keep a 1070 at decent temps without running hilarious low TDP's, sure, the CPU die is smaller, but..

From GPU-Z site, 1070 laptop:

Die area: 314 mm²
TDP: 120Watts

Watt/mm² = 0.382

From wikichip:

Die area: 149 mm²
TDP: 45Watts

Watt/mm²= 0.302
At 65Watts: Watt/mm² = 0.436
The CPU shouldn't be running THAT hot, no excuse, its not a crazy high Watt/mm² value, but it does get a bit worse at higher values.

I have designed some high power dc-dc converters, and with datasheets in hand with thermal resistance values its pretty straightforward to select/order the correct cooling solution so it doesn't go all up in flames.

Something smells fishy, either Intel promised lower TDP even for H parts and had to track back on their claims, or thermal resistance of the die went up due to process changes vs kaby lake

 

Intel's TDP for previous generations was for the advertised Turbo, now its for non-Tubo base clocks...
Maybe someone at R&D didn't get the memo.

Also to see that additional low level board throttle, mentioned in the review, on a non overclockable chip is a bit discouraging...now we will have to fix those base systems as well.

 

I didn't notice that "small" difference, and heck if that doesn't make a lot of sense!..

But, even then, my Haswell can and has been running at 3.6Ghz for hours on end at the 45Watt TDP point, and temps are great(65ºC max, 61ºC average, with the laptop in my lap). But I get it, the CPU needs the 45Watts TDP to run at base aka 2.7Ghz, those sweet 4.xGhz values that marketing loves make the TDP skyrocket and throttle nation comes upon us.

Even then, there is a lot of crap firmware going on, the Helios 500 keeps the CPU at 63ºC under sustained loads, with temps in the 65ºC ballpark, thing is that its a shared heatsink, wouldn't be surprised that even some 10Watts on there would make the thing run away thermally until it hits 100ºC.

 

This is how a hexacore CPU is supposed to run.

 

And this is from an 2015 model Clevo notebook with the old Z170 chipset. Aka upgradeable

http://hwbot.org/submission/3874631_papusan_cinebench___r15_core_i7_8700k_1686_cb?recalculate=true

 

I would say that they do not make them like they used to, but that was true in 2015 as well. And, 2014, 2013, too. Only one "makes them like they used to." Just one... such a sad state of affairs... only one. I hate it when the truth sucks.

 

This is TODAY bro Fox. And I don't mean the Clevo's with LGA. + this is for single core. What the rest of the cores run (crippled down to), I don't know.

 

Don't laugh... the underlying message is very serious. How much more idiotic nonsense will the kiddos put up with?

And, of course...

But, Hulk has the right idea...

 

What more can be said

 

Any clevos with hex mobile CPU and 64gb ram?

 

Yes, from Clevo and others. But, it's not pretty. Probably should avoid them unless you enjoy malfunction. If you want a laptop that works correctly with a hexacore CPU, might want to stick with an 8700K model. As usual and expected, BGA malfunction is a given because they are severely crippled.

 

Well I have said not a long ago that new H-series started to perform as low voltage U-crap ones. I can understand that their behavior can defended in some way (efficiency is prioritized not performance). Hoverer doing so in mobile high performance CPUs is unacceptable.

Intel should include label TDP for Turbo ~60-65 W. I wonder how much even more higher clocked mobile i9 needs (~100 W i guess?).


Temperatures can be fight with good pastes like TGK or even LM TGC but only % of people will know that first they should even repaste their laptop and even less how to do it... The worse thing is TDP cap so without BIOS/EC mods there is no hope...

 

This would destroy Intel's sale of H-series BGA processors. All too much of todays notebook models is thin and flimsy and haven't the needed cooling design/capacity to cope with such increase in TDP. And there is a reason Intel put 45W TDP specifications for their i9-8950Hk... More sales. And the OEM's goal is thinner models with cheaper and even more flimsy cooling. This doesn't fits together or can't be combined!! Same as mixing oil and water.

See below... Not a Clevo model but this will/can give you some thoughts for mind... If this i9-8950Hk BGA had +65w TDP, then wouldn't Intel be able to push it on Dell. Because they couldn' put in this DellBook. And Intel would loose the increased $200 usd profit in sales vs. push out the cheaper i7-8750H. Intel ain't Stupid!!

Why the need for put in the more expencive unlocked i9-8950Hk in this DellBOOK (XPS) if it barely can manage to run 3.04GHz? Moore $$$$$ on Dell and Intel? The cheaper i7-8750H could probably do same tasks. As well the cheaper partial unlocked i7-8850H. People have to pay premium price for something they really can't or won't get! The performance increase/gains you should expect with an unlocked chips.

 

Yes, I hear you brother. You are 100% correct as well. The TDP capping and firmware-induced throttling makes the situation utterly hopeless without a savior like @Prema to right all of the wrongs. This leaves the vast majority of consumers with Clevos and other brands (those without Prema magic to save the day) destitute and despondent, with absolutely no basis for hope. The digital castration is an absolutely brutal crime. Sadly, many will throw away their hard-earned money on fancy new broken turdbook garbage. But, OMG... it's s-o-o-o-o cute they just can't resist it.

 

So you could fix that with an higer TDP like 55w or 65w?

 

The CPU's are locked so you cant change the TDP directly, there might be some workaround/hack-ish way using the IA AC DC Loadline slopes to trick the CPU into thinking its using less current(and thus power), but that can be prevented pretty easily by the OEM's by using a current shunt and reading the current and doing all the throttling in EC firmware(which seems to be the norm now a days, "kids" can keep hacking the BIOS, we just screw them with limits on the EC, have fun with that one).

 

We have to Mod the EC since the 2015 models and not only does their code change entirely from model to model but also from EC revision to EC revision.
Took me literally 3 months to fix the KM1 code and about a month to figure out the P6xxRx models, which was a pain in the **** without having actual hardware to work with at hand.
Realistically it's a pure waste of time and makes no monetary sense, but it's still nice to see a constant all core 5.2Ghz+ during benches on the LGA K or 4.5Ghz+ on those older BGA HK.
Sadly enthusiast like @Mr. Fox or @Johnksss rarely purchase the later to really push them to their limits with some AC love and ambient thermals only take you so far unless your are @Papusan.

 

We are so blessed to have your talent. You are the only reason left for owning an expensive high performance laptop for some of us. If you ever retire, those will immediately become worthless overpriced garbage that is unworthy of being purchased. I know I will refuse to spend any of my money on broken trash.

I will never pay more than $500 for a castrated BGA piece of feces. I honestly want to see BGA gaming turdbooks fail miserably and become an object of universal hatred and contempt, so purchasing a piece of dog excrement like that and seeing how far it can be pushed with an unlocked BIOS and AC cooling would be counter-intuitive and counter-productive, and it would contribute financially to the ongoing delinquency of the dishonest retards that build and sell them. They (the companies, not the people,) deserve to die a brutal death for their incompetence and insolence toward us all.

 

You can't have it both ways - Clevo et al (companies) build and sell (and the people who work there), the resellers/system integrators (companies) build and sell (and the people who work there). Kill the companies which are, and for which people who work there are, delinquent, dishonest, retarded, incompetant and insolent; there's no more BGA or LGA laptops; full stop.

Pretty sure you could get your point across whilst toning your language and vitriol down a little......?

 

I don't want it both ways. I sincerely want BGA to die on expensive "high performance" notebooks regardless of the outcome. I'm not joking. It's not likely I will get what I want, but I won't stop wanting it and won't spend any money on expensive "high performance" BGA filth. Every heart and mind that people like myself and others can turn against it is a micro-win that could eventually inflict sufficient financial harm on the peddlers of BGA filth to force them to pay attention if they want to remain in business. Unfortunately, there would have to be some collateral damage and the good people that work for those shameful corporations can blame those who employ them for the end result, not the intelligent consumers that refuse to demonstrate any tolerance for it.

It's not a hard fix. All they have to do is man up and offer better options rather than exclusively offering pathetic BGA trash. Kudos to Clevo for being the only company with the balls to do it on a couple of models. Partial Kudos to MSI for the yet-to-materialize workstation they plan to release, but it needs to be released in an enthusiast version with a desktop K CPU, GeForce 1080+ and none of their famous firmware castration to get full credit.

 

@Mr. Fox I think you missunderstood what I meant by "both ways". You can't insult the companies without insulting the people who work for the companies and vice versa. You're not calling a company a retard, you're calling the people who "build and sell" these laptops retards. I'm not gonna cry over that, but I take offence to it because I for one am reasonably confident that I'm not a "dishonest retard".

Either way, the fact is that yes you may sway some people's minds but it also has a negative impact because the language you (and tbh some others occasionally) is getting really tired and you're actually strengthening the opposing parties to your POV because of the manner in which your argument is made - not necessarily the argument itself.

I completely understand your position however and I know you're not joking when you say that you want to see the end of BGA in mid-high end laptops. The only solution at the moment is to completely replace BGA with LGA/MXM and that's simply not practical. I've said this before, but the vast majority of the market simply doesn't want LGA products and they don't care as much as some might think that they aren't getting the performance in some chassis that they "should be" (what exactly do we have as a reference point apart from other BGA laptops) - until there's a substantial problem where, for example. the hardware can't keep up with games etc to the level that the market will accept, it's going to be a very difficult battle for you to make any headway on.

At the same time, yes we need resistance - I was just waying that I think you can be more successful with this and alienate less people if you change the way that you're making the argument. I have seen more progress behind the scenes over the last 6 months than I have in the last 3-5 years. This hasn't all made it to released products, not by a long way, but things are starting to change a little bit. This is a by-product of consumer response - not in terms of units sold but because companies like us feedback to the ODMs and ultimately what our customers tell us reinforces our existing points of view regarding functionality, options, performance, cooling, battery size, keyboards and so on.

 

LOL

Live and let live!

Intel and NVIDA are pushing BGA to help cut servicing costs and jobs in the industry, that's really all that is behind it.
Those working there should revolt as AIO throw it away and replace it sadly is the mass markets future in everything tech.

 

We're (almost) all friends here and @Mr. Fox knows that I don't disagree with half of his points. Maybe I'm a closet BGA hater after all , though actually I want to see it improve and not die, thus I'm working on improving (not bringing down) the system from the inside ;-)

 

Let it come more up into the light and let it shine

 

It worked only during CPU scenarios. When you put any significant GPU load everything returns to normal pathetic state again...

 

(thanks for the comment and note on images, furiously editing to show gifs correctly!!!)

 

LGA is really clunky for notebooks, ideally you would want an ultra low profile socket even thinner than the old mobile ones.

 

Yes. This is one of the main reasons I hate it and want it to die. When replacement motherboards sell for 50 to 75% of a new system, effectively rendering a simple repair null and void, you know things are messed up beyond repair and that kind of garbage tech is simply not worth any amount of effort to try to salvage. The self-serving agenda behind it is pretty hard to overlook, or forgive.

We're good. No offense taken and we're all still friends, for sure. I am not easily offended, and it's OK to hate things with extreme passion as long as you love people with extreme passion.

Hate the sin, love the sinner. And, yes... I believe you are a closet BGA hater. Your company is too awesome for you not to be.

I will see if I can figure out a way to turn more people against BGA filth that is less confrontational without watering down the culture or message of extreme hatred for it. Some people are so dense that they have to be shocked before they will pay attention to what's going on.

Unless you prefer thick and chunky, then it's a waste of calories trying to go thinner and lighter. I've already got my smartphone and tablet for that.

I prefer my soup, salsa, guacamole, milk shakes, salad dressing, computers, cars and trucks, and many other things thick and chunky. Thin and runny usually seems nasty. It reminds me of diarrhea.

 

How thin and lighter must it to be? When it reach Ipad size?
From my previous post... Offer +$600 upgrade and this is what you get...





Yeah...