Feedback to Clevo R&D Team: What's missing or broken in your Skylake laptops?

I don't think I can go back to win 7 given that many of the software I'm using at the moment has already been optimized for win 10...

 

Most gamers are on that class of GPU with a 60hz 1080p display.

 

Right. That's what I read too.

 

Not surprising. Not everyone updates their computer every 2-5y.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

 

Wait, what?...

750ti is about 2-5 years old...

 

My 860M = 750 Ti. I also have a 1080p 60 Hz display. I still haven't changed my notebook; I don't intend to do so until Ryzen 2, Cannonlake, Volta and Navi are released next year. Plus, that GPU can do GTA V on very high settings at 1080p at 45–60 FPS, Witcher 3 on medium-high settings at 40 FPS. It was a market-changer when it was released; it still is very good for the money. The 1050 Ti, in comparison is a joke, especially compared to the RX 470. Not everyone has the money, or wants to waste time and energy every year upgrading components.

 

My 860M = 750 Ti. I also have a 1080p 60 Hz display. I still haven't changed my notebook; I don't intend to do so until Ryzen 2, Cannonlake, Volta and Navi are released next year. Plus, that GPU can do GTA V on very high settings at 1080p at 45–60 FPS, Witcher 3 on medium-high settings at 40 FPS. It was a market-changer when it was released; it still is very good for the money. The 1050 Ti, in comparison is a joke, especially compared to the RX 470. Not everyone has the money, or wants to waste time and energy every year upgrading components. Not everyone has the money to buy a Core i7-6950X, Titan XP and 64 GB 3 GHz RAM. Plenty are satisfied with lower settings, or even playing older games. I've always said that the best value for GPUs is to go mid-range, and play games that are 2–3 years old on max settings, and use lower settings on the newest games. Best of both worlds. Anyone who spends money on a 1080 Ti today, is simply setting themselves up for salt when the Volta 1170 turns up to decimate its performance.

 

I don't understand tho... isn't 750ti and 860m about two years old now?...

Wasn't this the comment above?

I'm confused as to what is going on

And yes, I don't even expect 99% of people to event want / need top performance.

My brother is still running an i3-3110M + AMd HD 5870 and he is mostly happy with his setup...

 

No, I was referring to @woodzstack's comment about 750 Tis being used for nothing but WOW and LOL.

 

Okay well, Clevo guys are actually listening to this thread, so you want something and want it bad, or have very good feedback, I would state your mind now or wait until another year or two passes. They are having a industry event for clevo research right now, and some of the main thinkers product wise, wish to know what we want.

i.e Do we want Rysen AMD laptops ? How about the AMD GPU ? Is there any interest in going extreme with X299KM chipset laptops ?
These are the sort of things we should be discussing, so sorry for my interruptions earlier.

 

Well, if they can cool it off, workstation CPUs would be great to have.

 

was just an example... don't quote me anything haha, but yeah imagine a 18" with THAT lineup, lol...

 

Yes! We definitely need vareity and competitive products among intel and amd systems. More choice for the consumer is always welcome .

Regarding my earlier comment: It was a general comment and not towards a specific GPU. For an average gamer spending money is a big deal so unless the system collapses they use it instead of buying a new one very frequently.

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I don't want to burst your bubble, but Clevo don't read this or any other threads. What does happen is that they listen to the feedback that direct customers such as we give them on a daily basis and every time we meet. This information often parallels what is posted on various forums, but actually I haven't seen anything posted on this thread which we haven't already raised with Clevo. That's definitely not to say that this thread is pointless - quite the contrary, as I have pointed out before the more customer feedback is gathered the more Clevo direct customers are likely to listen, take on board the feedback and raise similar points with Clevo.

As discussed in other threads, Ryzen availability is wholely up to AMD ;-)

 

The rumours were around a 180W TDP for a 16 core AMD, you could always reverse the cooling on the NP9873 and have the CPU under the vapor chamber and then a little 1050ti where the CPU is

 

yeah no worries.

When you are not in Taiwan but get asked for your input the next Clevo's, personally I look at these sort of threads and develop an imagine of what to contribute based on my own thoughts too.
Probably nothing new being stated, but doesn't hurt to have a thread like this. My feedback was to push for individual fan control. It would be a great feature. some of the other stuff can be done cheap that is mentioned in this thread, too.

 

Well if anyone from Clevo is reading... your keyboards SUCK and I'm never buying another taptop from you that has these same flimsy and cramped 15 inch keyboards which you stole from the 15 inch models and slammed in to the bigger beasts

 

they need to up the cooling game too

both in size and qc



I'd rather focus on cooling first than keyboard

 

As I'm sure they have to be aware by now, the BIOS needs major improvement. It's great that a third party (Prema) is taking care of the community, but it shouldn't come down to that in the first place.

These platforms are suppose to be desktop replacement, so it shouldn't feel any different in operation.

 

The stock options have been worked on a fair bit. The newer systems have voltage control up and down along with memory controls and power limits that allow a significant amount of tweaking.

 

thinner bezels

 

Clevo has basically the same opportunities as their competition.

Precision engineering and manufacturing, especially regarding the fit and function of heat sinks, needs to be job #1 rather than a que sera sera affair.

They also need to not release any more products to production that have firmware that suffers with TDP and power limit throttling. If they cannot get the firmware to the point that it functions properly with no firmware mods, it shouldn't be offered for sale to anyone.

If ODMs do not have the resources to thoroughly test and verify that what they sell is going to be excellent in every way before releasing it to production and QC spot checks in place to verify the stuff rolling off the assembly line is everything it is supposed to be, then they should find another line of work.

None of them are doing us any favors by selling mass-produced broken garbage. We would all be better off with nothing than spending money on broken trash.

 

I think they do it to save costs and leave that work for the "stores" that sale their products. After all they are an ODM, they provide a service to companies, not end-users.
I'm only talking about ODMs here, a Dell, Razer, MSI doing the same thing is quite different.

Still, to be on topic:

- Option to ditch 2.5" slot and have a bigger battery. Asus has this and you can choose between a bigger battery or more storage.
- Thinner bezels, but don't put the camera on the bottom of the screen neither compromise cooling to save a few inches.

 

you mean how the KM1 has 480w power limit? @D2 Ultima

 

LOL you crazy nutcase, hahah go figure you replied to me when you say this, so I look like a culprit hahaha cracked me up.

I have no news yet, but speculation is AMD Rysen MSI and Clevo's with AMD GPU's and API...

 

I can't seem to get Windows 10 Creators Update to install properly with the GTX 980M in discrete mode. I had to do a clean install on my Clevo P650RG-G so the update would install properly. After being able to install the Creators Update, I am now unable to install the latest Geforce driver which crashes and restarts midway through the installation. I tried installing Clevo Control Center, the laptop and it also kept on crashing and rebooting. I had to switch to Hybrid mode in the bios to fix the problem so now I'm stuck using the integrated graphics.

Any ideas on how to get my GTX 980M to work with the Creators Update?

 

wait , is that a thing ? Theres a limit ? Where can I read more on this ?

 

The whole system is limited to 480w power draw. I have the 780w PSU which confirms the 480w throttle point.

@Mr. Fox had the same problem with the DM3 until prema stepped in.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with @Phoenix

The keyboard is quite bad for writing long texts.

I need to write long scripts and the built-in keyboard can't help me at all...

 

Sooo they sell their systems with 2x330W(660W total) but only allow 480W on stock bios?

 

Ah so it's a bios thing again ?

 

Yeah, just crappy cancer firmware. Most laptops have this issue. NONE OF THEM SHOULD... not even the BGA garbage should.

The MSI 16L13 has the same problem (not 480W, but same in principle) with the new EC versions. Anything newer than EC 111 on my Tornado F5 is junk due to CPU TDP throttling.

With a machine like the P870 this is inexcusable and unforgivable. It's purchased by performance enthusiasts and elitists specifically because it is not a castrated turdbook, and it should not have ANY turdbook character traits to it.

 

to upgrade properly you need to do 2 things otherwise it would fail:

1) revert all settings that any tool like O&OShutUp10 or the likes did to default
2) uninstall your AV

 

ooooooooops, sorry man, didn't mean it that way, now it looks like I bought a laptop from your with a flimsy 15 inch keyboard sorry

 

There is probably a better thread for this discussion since it is not an area of opportunity for Clevo. I already gave up on Creators Abortion and went back to W10 Enterprise 2016 LTSB. You're not missing anything special.

 

Yes

Well said

Same here
Ratiborus + W10 Enterprise <3

 

It sounds like it's only going to get worse over the years. The DM3 might be my last high performance laptop at this rate. Might need to go back to desktops

I never tested this, but was 480W enough for 4.8Ghz overclock and slight +120/300 on GPUs using stock firmware? Does it shut down the laptop or just throttle?

 

I think so. I hardly used the stock firmware. I am not aware of the DM3 ever shutting down. I haven't heard of that or experienced it myself.

 

It depends on the load. If the cooling is properly well-done and you actually stress the system (let's say Witcher 3 Novigrad at 1440p 120-144fps (the former achieveable on this machine via the 1440p panel) or Deus Ex Mankind Divided or ME Andromeda, all of which pull tons of resources from all of the system?) then you probably will find the answer to be "no". When games are out in a year that stress a couple 1080s decently and hit the CPU hard (regardless of the GPU) then what'd happen?

Even @Mobius 1 tried the Overwatch main menu test like I did. At 1080p I sucked over 400w constantly; undervolted 4.4GHz. At 1440p on stock KM1 firmware he did not hit the FPS limit, and his GPUs went full bore and he hit a power limit. Also with undervolted CPU. Also the more stuff the PC has to power the worse it is; usb mice/headset/controller, wifi card (I was on ethernet so I probably drew slightly less), a second monitor at home, etc would all contribute in a small way to the max power draw allowed

Sent from my OnePlus 1 using a coconut

 

Can confirm.

 

Wait... did i seriously just make the mistake of buying the KM1?.. it is still "in production" at HID.. and Prema isnt available to the KM1 right now... im going to be power throttled? I bought 2x 780w supplies to make sure i wasnt being throttled.. and the BIOS does this?

Ugh @Prema ... Please help me here.. feel like i just sunk $8000 into the trash can... starting to feel sick...

 

HID is a prema partner

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AFAIK he is working on the KM1 BIOS, might take a bit more time till its ready. But it will be there.

 

A pity that he doesn't release BIOSes for free anymore, which means I have to purchase (and ship) my devices to and from the US, when I already have a Clevo reseller in Singapore.

 

You can maybe check with your reseller if they can become a Prema Partner or interested in doing so. That might help you and them in the long run.

 

OBSIDIAN is in EU and will ship to you without issue, and as far as I know you can get a Prema BIOS token from them. It's something to consider.

 

Prema is working on it. Give him some time. Also, I really doubt you're going to be able to pull over 780W.

 

Yeah, bad apples tend to ruin the whole barrel. When dishonest people are constantly trying to steal your stuff, take credit for it, and distribute it (even sell it) as their own work, something has to be done.

The other thing is, if everyone could get it for free, it would diminish the value of being a Prema Partner shop. There were also some Clevo resellers that were not Prema Partners that were distributing his firmware without any authorization to do so, and taking advantage of the situation by not offering to pay a dime for using it on machines they were selling. The exclusive arrangement helps make being a Prema Partner shop a distinctive benefit and hold a marketing edge over their competitors that are stuck with stock cancer firmware.

 

Oh I wasnt expecting that (bought one for travel and one for desktop) - I just wanted to make sure I was getting everything I could from the laptop - For example, my Alienware 15 was throttled from a 240w PSU with a 980m.. it still is to this day.

 

You cant't compare your new machine VS. The AlienWare 0.78 GHz Throttling Hell