First look at the P650SE?

Yup, asked myself the same question 3 days ago, I'm not a heavy gamer, i don't play more than 7 hours/week, but when I play it's BF4, and later : Dragon age inquisition, Borderlands TPS (when you're shotgunning 300 enemies at the same time, your GPU feels it believe me...), Battlefront 3, Star citizen, Arma 3, Civ beyond earth etc ^^ so 8Gig 980m for me, plus I study using catia, Unity, UE4 so...

 

Middle Earth: Shadow of Mordor: Ultra = 6GB, High/Very High = 4GB
The Evil Within: Recommended 4GB vRAM
Call of Doody Advanced Warfare: 4GB vRAM
Far Cry 4: rumored to recommend 4GB, Ultra at 6GB

GTA V and Witcher 3 are also due out soon and I'm sure those specs won't be too forgiving. Granted the developers of The Witcher 3 are PC programmers primarily, so requirements may be relaxed a bit.

 

Hopefully XoticPC gets it with the 4k option, though only worry is the 4 cell battery vs a 6.

 

just cant accept the thought of having to upgrade hardware just cuz the programmers are too lazy to optimize their software...

 

It is a 60wh battery. Should be ok for most things.

 

I was chatting a little with the developpers of REX a HD mod for flight simulator X, and they told me that 4096*4096 DXT textures were becoming standard, and that they struggled with the x360/ps3 (they're developers too) because of those VRAM inside...games are now delivered with UHD textures, and are large scales (witcher 3, Dragon age 3, Battlefront 3, Skyrim, GTA V, watch Dog, Shadow of mordor), so accept the fact that 4gig won't be enough soon... open world games require a tremendous amount of vRAM, the past generation was focused on FPS and fast paced games, excluding some IPs... but now thank god we won't eat COD clones anymore but GTA V and BF4 clones ^^.

 

The point is that there is no visual benefit of those textures, because they need to be low quality to run on the currently-weak consoles. In other words, it's a high resolution puddle of mud half the time. This entirely defeats the purpose of the textures being high res, but it's something they can use to market/brag about.

 

Oh lets be nice now, for some of us gamers this is a guilty pleasure game. Ashamed, yes, but also satisfies that addiction gland.

 

Any chance they will release the 8GB VRAM 980m version P650?

 

I don't know. But IMO no..

 

I'm having a hard time deciding between the P35X and the P650SG, and other laptops equipped with GTX 980M. My main goal is portability factor, but am worried about the following:

-Temperatures
-Battery Life
-Screen Quality
-Build Quality

The only reviews up are for the P650SE, but nothing on the SG variant (having the slightly thicker chassis; not sure how this affects the temperatures).

I'm mainly going for a strong single GPU as having SLI would just murder battery life on the go for me, not to mention the high temperatures of past laptops I have tried with SLI.

I'm not sure if having 8GB vRAM is a game changer as most games I've seen and played don't necessarily need it. Most games that require more have generally bad optimization issues and I have never had any problems with 4GB vRAM so far.

Is there a spec difference between the 4GB and 8GB GTX 980M besides the vRAM? I don't see much info on either.

Also, power supply may be an issue if the default isnt adequate enough...

 

4GB is soldered in, so no theoretical upgrade in the future. Upgrades hard when Clevo (like now) rarely provides new bios' for older machines. Also bear in mind lazy console ports, some already today 'need' 6GB vram, and I doubt this will improve.

 

Zero because the boards are soldered. Only the non soldered boards get the higher vram versions. Expensive but sexy MSI GT72 or ugly and cheap Clevo P170-SM-A (both with 8GB), pick your poison!

 

The GT72 is above all a big 17" laptop, not everyone want that form factor sitting on their lap . I'd be all over the GT72 if it a 15" GT62 was released.

 

hey now! clevos are cheap AND sexy, in a natural beauty kinda way as opposed to the too-much-makeup-bling-bling msi machines

 

Is the only review out the one from notebookcheck? Anyone willing to post the different reviews found, video and text!

 

I don't care much for the console ported games. I personally prefer PC dedicated games as very few console games even interest me anymore.

So to my original question, should I stick with the P650SG or bet on Gigabyte's P35X CF4? Type of screen must be high resolution, I personally dont care about glossy or not as the sun never bothered me too much when reflected. My main concern is cooling, long-term performance, and build quality at this point. Would I be screwed in playing games more than 5 years from now if I stuck with a 4GB GTX 980M?

 

Interesting trade-off: the better performance and longevity of the 8gb 980m and the lighter more portable format of the P35, vs the lower cost and better cooling of the P650SG.

Honestly, if it were me and I could afford it, I'd probably go with the P35X - but that's almost more of an aesthetic choice for me, I have no experience or history with either brand. That's assuming they've fixed the mushy keyboard on the P35, of course.

 

thus far im only aware of the hardwareluxx and notebookcheck reviews, both linked to in the owner´s lounge... keeping an eye out tho!

concerning high-res screen the P65x is definitely a good choice, since it offers the nice Sharp RGB stripe 4K display, should be quite the view as for cooling its hard to say at this point, since no one has gotten his hands on a SG model yet, so i guess well have to sit tight for now. looking into the future MORE than 5 years from now ud be screwed no matter what kinda hardware ud buy right now, its just a very long time in tech terms

thing is this: u have to calmly analyze ur computer usage and decide if ure gonna be gaming on a regular basis for the next FIVE years AND wanting to game at maximum possible settings. if thats the case then ure better off with an mxm, potentially interchangeable/upgradeable gpu. if, like me, u just want to be at peace for the next several years (under warranty) while knowing that u wont have time for regular, but rather infrequent gaming and then mostly older games, but just LOVE that damn sexy sleek look of the P65x series and its portability when taking it to work every damn day for the next 4 years, then go ahead and place an order to join the club!

 

My BIOS Mod will allow for system RAM to be OCed up to 2667Mhz. Once it hits the streets get something like the Kingston 2400Mhz, bump the MHz, lower the Timings, use part of it as shared vRAM and you don't need a GPU with xGB of vRAM.

 

not exactly the same as gddr5 but that would definitely make up for some performance disadvantages when running out of vram! thanks as always prema, looking forward to flashing ur mod already

 

Is it possible to dedicate a whole dimm slot to be used as a vram module?? i would probably have 2 dimm's to spare (x4)

 

I bought a W230ST because it was good for on the go cases, so maximum settings is not a requirement. I'm pretty sure ultra settings will satisfy someone out there that has a "it must have no stutter on max" and whatnot. I prefer stability and efficiency. Since I have undervolted, capped frames, optimized performance and cooling on all my laptops - the P650SG isn't that bad to me.

Though I am slightly disappointed by the battery life. I would prefer a lumpy battery pack with 6 or 8 cells like the old IBM-Lenovo thinkpads to make it last for 5-7 hrs. If there were mods or customizations to improve the battery, I would definitely jump on the P650SG right away. If the P35X has better battery and cooling performance, then that will be my next bet I guess.

 

If this is true, then you may further solidify my purchase of the P65xSG over the P35X. Waiting on a review from P35X before finalizing.

 

Well i don't think that that would be impossible, in norway they have them listed with: 8 Cell battery Smart Lithium Ion 76.96WH

P651se

http://www.multicom.no/Kunshan-P651S-15e6-QFHD-3840x2160e-Intel-Core-i7-4710HQe-16GBe-240GB-SSD-1TB-7200rpme-GeForce-GTX-970M-3GBe-Uten-operativsysteme-25mm-tynn-Multicom/cat-p/c/p10630079

 

Same with the P670, good pictures of the new 17" also..

Multicom Kunshan P670S 17.3" Full-HD Matt, Intel Core i7-4710HQ, 8GB, 1TB 7200rpm, GeForce GTX 970M 3GB, Uten operativsystem / MULTICOM

 

That's quite the good find. I guess the last bit is which one cools better and produces less bothersome noise during idle/mild use (usually when I sit and read).

 

i think thats just a typo with the battery though, they give the same battery time as other sites with the 60wh battery, that cant be right

also be aware that the 17" does not have a larger battery, does not support higher than FHD displays and does not have a port for 3g/4g cards

 

Hmmm, Well... Trolls come from Norway..

I do hope they come with the 8 cell tho.. really do.

 

And regarding what i posted earlier, Looks like the exhaust is a little wider on the P670s!? than the P650/1s, any thoughts?

4mm aint much.. but do you think the 17" versions would be 2.9cm ? I know we have to wait and see but would +mm add to the sturdiness of the build with lager chassis 17" ? Or would less actually make it "stronger"

Can't wait till we get a review of the 17"r, i want a laptop with a big screen.

 

It's a nice sentiment but due to the increased blatancies it and overheads it wont make much of a difference. Though desktop 980 owners don't seem to mind 4GB too much.

 

I'm not worried about the 4g vRAM on the 980m, it may affect the highest res texture options on a few games, but you really need to be at least 3k resolution or so to see a real advantage to those texture sizes anyway. Most of those games won't hit 60 fps on a single 980m at over 1080p anyway so no real loss.

970m with 3gb vRAM is a little more worrisome but it also needs to turn down settings on more games so still not a huge deal.

My problem is the 3gb 970m SLI, or theoretically a 4gb 980m SLI. Then you start to have the power to run those games maxed out and the vRAM could be a major bottleneck for you.
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Also p670sx will probably be about 2-3mm thicker than the p650sx. This would be caused primarily by the display panel thickness.

 

Texture size has about 1% of a performance impact unless you're out of vRAM, unless they did something else actually to the textures (like low using badly drawn textures and high uses much better drawn textures; some games roll these into one option, sadly). Bumping resolution from 1080p to 4k usually only results in something like 400MB extra vRAM usage. vRAM issue is only an issue resolution-wise if you're using massive amounts of multisample AA at high resolutions. For example: I can make Killing Floor use 2.3GB vRAM by running it with 32x CSAA. That game is so old, 2GB cards weren't even invented when it came out. If I tried a 32x multisample at 3k I might hit a bit closer to 4GB vRAM I suppose, but no way to check here.

In short, don't link vRAM buffer size to card power. Shadow of Mordor is a fine example of MASSIVE vRAM usage on weak cards outperforming strong cards with lower vRAM sizes (a 880M for example as far as I know rips a 780 apart running that game at ultra with the framedrops and all that for the 3GB 780 variant).

 

That sort of is what I meant, though now that I think about it I think my reasoning may have been flawed, after all the games with above 4gb vRAM usage will be near 100% console ports. And these may be using huge amounts of vRAM, but they can't actually need as much GPU power since the consoles have about the equivalent of an 840m or something. So I guess the only issue would be the high end built for PC games that can expect up to the 4gb vRAM seen on the 980 and 970 desktop GPUs. Still could be a problem for the 970m SLI w/3GB vRAM in those cases though.

Of course the 4-5.5 gb vRAM requirements for some console games will be a problem for all <6gb vRAM cards, but I guess SLI shouldn't be a big factor.

 

If that's the case, I may go with Gigabyte for this one. I'm still looking for the strong but lasting portable factor as I constantly move about and may not even have outlets most of time. If it were to last at least 4-5 hrs, then I can make it last for most of the day with the many tweaks to the system. Cooling performance is also a big concern as well... (Gigabyte claimed to have improved the cooling in their recent messages)

 

It is sad I'm looking at getting a laptop that has more power then my desktop... I have a desktop with 16gb ram, i5 2500k cpu, and a HD 7970ghz. Here I thought this was a beast at the time... Its now getting ran over by these laptops haha...

 

I'm looking for something I can play while on the couch since the wife complains I'm always in my "man cave" aka my computer room. and I need to spend more time with the family.

I have played around with using steam in home streaming to stream my games to my current laptop and tablets. Even tho I have done this with good results and with every update its even better. It does takeaway detail and sometimes I get jerky laggy game play. I really just want a portable gaming machine so I can't wait to get one of these!

 

Glad I'm not the only one

 

The PS4 one is about on par with 7970M/8970M/M290X/7870 by the specs. The XBO one would be a bit lower. They are weak, but not like 840M weak.

 

No, it's 80% as strong (GPU-wise) as a 7970M which is at stock, and it can't be OC'd, and its CPU is something like an i3

 

Oh lol I looked it up and the site I used compared it to the 7870 ( a bit weaker). I misread it as 7870m though so probably somewhere between a 850m and 860m then, not 840m.

 

7870 = 1280 cores (20 clusters) @ 1000MHz
7970M = 1280 cores (20 clusters) @ 850MHz
8970M/R9 M290X = 1280 cores (20 clusters) @ 900MHz
PS4 = 1152 cores (18 clusters) @ 800MHz
Xbox 1 = 768 cores (12 clusters) @ 850MHz

Compare cards to each other and enjoy. Find percentages to 7870 card, then compare 7870 to other GPUs, then apply percentages and see how they stack up.

 

Memory is different too with the higher end mobile cards having a dedicated 256bit gddr5 bus all to themselves.

 

I wasn't really counting the memory because you can have the fastest memory in the universe, but if the core can't render the pixels and polygons, it's purely limited there. Memory is so finnicky in games it's weird. Sometimes better memory bandwidth helps and sometimes it doesn't, even if you're nowhere near your vRAM limit. Sometimes it seems like the soft-cap for memory bandwidth benefitting is like 115GB/s, but then some games get like +10fps from simply 160GB/s bump to 192GB/s. Either way, I was hoping to leave memory out of the picture haha.

 

Hah but you can't since the system cpu will be eating a fair chunk of it. There is also the latency penalty of waiting for cpu related requests.

 

You have the 980M GTX that is capable of more than the 2/3 of the power of the real 980GTX, the 256bit bus is A MUST and way more important than having 4+ of video ram. few people have more than 4gig of Vram in their PC (according to steam 1.4%), so to be very simple, a game that uses more than 6Gig of ram is VERY badly optimised or just ported directly from a X1/ps4.

And for the next 5 years no multiplatform game will use more than 6gig of Vram because that's the max the ps4 can use. With a high memory bandwith I don't think that being limited with ""only"" 4Gig of ram will be a problem.. . I suspect shadow of Mordor to be badly optimised because those 6gig of ram used, are used without any compression (DXT3 for instance), and are rendered without an efficient algorithm that would dynamically allocates memory of textures that are not used (snow, orc number 145 etc ^^), i suspect the dev of just putting everything on the memory...without any optimisation.

 

Well capped to 6GB if you run 720p/900p (or whatever the PS4 version is running at).

 

the ps4 runs the game at 1080p, if that's not the case, it's not because of the texture resolution or anything related to Video memory, so no.

 

Some games are already lower than 1080p and this will only get worse as the console ages.

 

Sager released these today, wont be available until Nov 7th though.