Sager NP579x Fan Firmware Updated

Well. that is odd. I thought this was a factory setting.
Auto fan kicks in at 48 till 44 C.
Medium fan kicks in at 39ish till 36-37. Can somebody confirm or infirm this?
Donald,Justin ?

 

Fan tables can be different between different OEMs. We can only speak for Sager, and then you would also have to look at the ship date and BIOS version. Not all Sager's would necessarily be the same...but it should be the same in each BIOS version.

 

Ok,mine`s a Sager 5791, from pretty much the first batch of 5791s.
Of course I am asking about sagers , 579x only. So what are the thresholds then? Is mine special and kick starts the fan earlier than others? I`ve heard people reporting 61-57 C ,while mine is 48-44....so what is sager`s rule on this one? kick in at 48 or 61?

 

Answers, anyone ?

 

There's something else that could explain the difference, we don't have the same video board (I've got a 8700M GT). There may be different fan tables for the different supported video adapters.

I can confirm that before I upgrade the temps were 61-57.

These temps may be defined in the main BIOS but I would rather think they are in the KBC/EC part.

Here are my spec:
Ymax SR from Keynux (M570RU) = Sager 5971
8700M GT
Bios : Clevo 1.00.03
KBC/EC : Sager 1.00.07Sb

It would be nice to have :

- Other members report their temps

- ACPI class for NHC for the M570RU ( http://nhc.justred.info/ is down)

- New BIOS/Firmaware from Clevo that would allow us to set the treshold and fan speed for the Fn+3 mode (They would take no risk with this as they still control how fans behave when reaching higher temps)

What I would like when doing light work is to have the GPU fan always on but at a lower speed, this would allow the GPU to stay under 52°, actual kick in temp in Fn+3 mode, thus having lower and constant noise)

The most uncomfortable thing is to have the fans coming on and off every two minutes, so what I actually do is to set High performance plan and enable DreamScene so the GPU doesn't go under 48° and the fan is always on.

 

Ok, I need somebody`s official word on this.
The firmware updates the fan speed in such a way that when I press Fn+3 it keeps the fans at medium speed,ok? so far so good. Now , the GPU fan ONLY kicks in at 39 C and when it reaches 36-37C it turns off. At 39 C it starts again. GRRRRR! I want the damn fan to stay on at medium ALL THE TIME. Wasn`t that the reason why the gpu fan was a problem, because it kept powering up/down? Even on med speed ,and basic browsing I noticed it does the same thing.
Is there something wrong or is my laptop with a strong conservative personality?

 

eleron911,

I'm pretty sure that I'm in the same boat that you are with regards to the fans with my recently arrived (this afternoon) 5792. Fn+3 sets the fans at one speed but even in just casual web browsing my fans are still ramping up and down pretty often and it's a bit frustrating. I'm guessing that it's the GPU fan that is needing to run more than the CPU fan, but can't be sure since I'm not currently using anything to monitor core temps.

Any suggestions from folks for how to see what's running and when to see if his is just normal of if there's an issue?

 

I`m pretty sure it`s a standard thing. With Vista the gpu fan would stay on all the time, since temps were always above 39 even when idling, due to Vista using the GPU all the time( for aero and such). XP , on the other hand does not, so the gpu builds up heat till 39, the fan kicks in,cools it down to 36-37 as my previous pics show,and then power off. Then repeat. I need a firmware that would force the gpu fan to either kick in faster or stay on permanently , regardless of temperature...man, I really expect sager to pull through this one also, since I don`t think anyone was considering Xp users when they made the firmare. Same ol` power on/power off irritating fan noise.
Donald, Justin, any word to sager pls?

 

@n_maher : are your running XP or Vista ? To monitor your temps you can use either CPUID HWMonitor (very simple) or RivaTuner. Would be interesting if you can report your GPU fan on/off temps in Fn+3 mode.

eleron911, regardless of the OS we are using and the (strange) fact that we don't have the same treshold temps, we still have the same problem.

The basic fact is : if the GPU fan stops, it will have to start 1 or 2 minutes later...The only way for clevo to fix that is to set the GPU fan always on, but at a very low speed (half of actual mid speed should be enough for light work).

This is how the CPU fan actually behaves in FN+3 mode. If you are in a very silent place you can notice when your machine is cool and you switch to Fn+3 mode, the CPU fan starts and always run, but at a minimum speed, that's enough to keep the CPU cool. Then the CPU fan speed increases step by step when needed and depending on CPU load and temp.

This is exactly the behavior we need for the GPU fan. This would make the M570RU a perfect machine

 

Yea, it`s what I`m asking for also. I thought initially that Fn+3 would keep the fans on medium ALWAYS until the threshold temp would be reached and the max speed would set off... man, this firmware sucks right now

 

I'm running Vista64. I'll have a go at monitoring temps tonight while I run the PassMark benchmarking software

 

So it's definitely my GPU that's ramping up and down every minute or so. The CPU fan works very nicely on medium, both my cores are idling at a cool 22C according to CPUID HWMonitor. Odd though that the monitoring software can't recognize my 7950 so I can't tell what that temperature is at. I'd almost just prefer it if the GPU fan was on all the time rather than the ramp up and down syndrome. :|

 

n_maher,

read this for GPU temp monitoring:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=81852

and this for Vista x64:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=81852&page=12

Other programs for monitoring:
- nTune
- ATITool

 

Ok. Justin was wrong. This firmware, or whatever it is, does the next things:
1) Completely changes the AUTO mode, so that the gpu never kicks in at 48 C, but at 39 C now, until 35-36.
2) GPU fan still kicks in ,powers off, repeat, even on fn+3 mode
3) Even after a shutdown/reboot the system stays this way.

Either sager just updated the firmware so that the threshold is now 39C, or vista reacts differently than Xp, and Xp likes things cooler.
Either way, the gpu fan DOES NOT STAY ON. IT`s driving me nuts. Ever since I switched back to XP I noticed that the firmware was not doing what it was suposed to: maintain the fan speeds at medium until the limit for necessary max speed would be reached.I am freaking pissed about this...

 

Eleron, I just noticed something interesting :

you : 48(before) - 39(now) = 9
me : 61(before) - 52(now) = 9

So this update lowers the GPU kick in temp by 9 degrees.

Still can't explain the differences in our temps...

...But as you say doesn't solves the problem it was supposed to fix

 

Gophn,

Thanks for the help, I've got Riva installed now and setup per your guide to monitor the GPU core temperature in the system tray. The short version of the story is as soon as it gets up to 41 the GPU fan kicks to high for about 2 minutes to bring the temp back down to around 36 and then shuts off again. Takes less than a minute for the temp to rise again and then the fan kicks on full again. Note, this is with FN+3 enabled which has the CPU fan idling harmlessly in the background at barely audible levels. It's noise level is completely acceptable.

I have to admit, I wasn't really expecting this kind of noise. At this point, I'd actually prefer if the fan just ran all the time but I'm not willing to live with the noise of the CPU fan running full bore which is pretty dang loud (as expected). I'll be taking very good care of the laptop for the next 30 days and weighing my options accordingly unless there's a real fix for this. I might be able to live with it but this laptop gets regular use by my wife and the first thing she asked was, "What the heck is up with that fan?" That does not bode well for what is otherwise a fantastic notebook.

 

n_maher,

Thanks for taking time to check that and post your temps and your feeling about this abnormal fan behavior.

This confirms the problem and I just hope Clevo will soon fix that.

 

In my book they've got 21 days to fix the ramping fan issue. Noise is something that I can live with, on and off variable noise is pretty darn annoying.

 

I would just recommend to Fan Toggle (when ever you use the machine) to get your fans to max speed and do your work or gaming... you wont even notice the fans after that... it will just become background sound.

 

Uhm, I beg to differ. The max fan noise IS LOUD AND DISTURBING. I can`t even watch a movie with a nasty shoosh in the background. AND I MEAN LOUD. The firmware does not do what we were told it would.
I am very dissapointed.

Mrphilgood, what system do you have , which OS and what version of the sager,and maybe what BIOS version?

 

I am used to it, the background sound of the Max speed fans fine by me.... I usually watch stuff and game with headphones anyways.

 

As noted, the 579x is MUCH louder than any of the D9xxx series. You`d have to use it daily to know what I mean by loud and irritating noise. I do game on full speed just for the heck of it, but I need it on a constant noise at medium when watching movies, browsing the web etc etc.

 

I'm with you again, there are a lot of times when I'm in the same room with my wife while she's watching TV or whatever and the up/down/up/down is just not going to work. I've got an email into Xotic just to put a bug in there ear about it but I won't make the same mistake I did with my last laptop thinking that an issue that is even mildly annoying now will get better with time. I want this notebook to work for me since right now it's 95% awesome, 5% annoying.

 

Eleron,

Would you put up a video of your 579x fan ramping up and down? Someone else put one Utube awhile back but the recording device was louder than the fan so you couldn't really tell how bad it was. you know, show it at auto, medium, etc. I'd like to see if it's tolerable to me as some don't seem as bothered by it as much as others, but I have a feeling I'd side with those who are. I know it's somewhat of an oxymoron but I want the fast quietest notebook possible. I've been watching this thread develop since the beginning and was finally about to order one myself after reading about the firmware correction. However, after seeing your comments that it really hasn't resolved the issue I am holding off. It's a shame that such a seemingly great laptop is marred by this one problem. I'm sure I'm not the only one right now who is holding off on making the purchase until this fan issue is resolved. I have mentioned the fan issue to Justin as well. I'm not going to spend $3k+ for a laptop that is going to drive me nuts(but I really want the 5793). Unless Sager(Clevo) can resolve this with a better firmware update I'll have to wait for something along the lines of the Alienware mx17 to come out. It's disapponting as I wanted to get it through xotic after reading about their great customer service.

Thanks,

 

Eleron, I've put my details in my signature. I can add:

BIOS is Clevo 1.00.03
KBC/EC is Sager 1.00.07Sb (was Clevo 1.00.04 before upgrade)
nVidia driver is 169.25 from lv2go

My laptop is not a Sager one, I bough it in France ( Keynux Ymax SR, it's same as 5791) and the problem is the same.

The only difference is that I have higher treshold temps but still the same ON/OFF/ON/OFF... GPU fan every two minutes when doing light work. The only way I have to avoid this is to set on max performances and enable DreamScene to keep the GPU hot enough so the fan doesn't stops. But this is not an clean solution.

I fully agree with you and maher_m that it is quite annoying especially when working in a silent place late in the night. I'm even suprised that no more people complain about this issue...

The reason for this problem is explained on laptopspirit by Keynux, (translated from french) :

On desktops motherboards, the BIOS usually makes it possible to optimize the fans speeds according to the internal temperature of the machine or the temperature of the processor. On a laptop computer, the components being very close the ones to the others least overheating can very quickly prove to be fatal (destruction of the motherboard or the graphics board). The users having for annoying practice to reduce to the maximum their fans speeds in order to minimize the noise level of the machines, the board manufacturers ended up adopting a protectionist attitude which consists in blocking the access to the BIOS and to make the fans run at a speed higher than the nominal speed. While thus acting, they protect the internal components of the machine at the expense of the comfort of work. We fight in a repeated way with these manufacturers so that they give us access to the parameters which make it possible to optimize the noise level according to the power of the machine. Each time we obtain profit of cause, we place at the disposal of our Customers the BIOS which make it possible to better manage the various components of our computers. But when a new product such that Ymax SR begins its marketing, it may be that the BIOS does not make it possible to optimize the whole of the parameters of the machine and in particular the fans speeds.

That's really a shame cause without this problem this laptop would be nearly perfect, and also cause it's quite easy for clevo to fix it...

And having this GPU fan always on would even allow to run it at a lower speed than the actual mid speed, this would mean even less noise (and constant noise) than actual Fn+3 mode.

I just hope Clevo will have a look at this thread... and do something for those that wanna use their laptop not only for gaming with headphones...

BTW, Gophn, maybe you could add Keynux to your great topic "Clevo Guide - F.A.Q. and Reseller Info"

 

BIgBertha, I`ll give it a shot asap, but right now I`m a little tied up with my last exam so as soon as I get rid of it, Ill do just that. On medium speed it`s not loud at all, it`s bearable for a gaming laptop,the real problem is the fact that it turns on and off, on and off , etc etc.In a room where it`s just you and some reading,that is veeeery disturbing,whereas a CONSTANT medium speed would fix this. I`m running on AC 70% of the time so battery life with med speed is never an issue if ever,but I want them to run MED ALL THE TIME until a higher speed is required to cool the system. I think it can be done,just as mrphilgood said,either by Clevo or Sager or some other retailer. Come on people it`s not that f-in hard to write the 3rd version of the firmware so that Fn+3 would ALWAYS keep the fans at MEDIUM, as explained above.

I too love my laptop in every way possible, but this little issue is driving me nuts.

 

Well, Xotic responded to my email asking me to call their service number to talk with someone so I'll be doing that tomorrow at some point. The wife pretty much made it clear that she is not a fan of the fan. Color me disappointed.

 

If custommer service can help you with something that a firmware could not do, then tip my hat to them. But I doubt it.In the meantime, my auto speed is medium speed, and starts at 39C. Without the toggle. At this time, Fn+3 only sets med speed for the CPU fan. This is reeeeeealy weird...

 

wierd yea... i havent even installed this new fan firmware.. the noise just doesnt bother me..... i sleep with it on 4 feet from my head.

 

Noise being bothersome is certainly relative. I live out in the middle of nowhere so the house is pretty quiet. And for what it's worth the laptop is louder than my 5yr old desktop, which I find a bit shocking.

Mostly I want to know if this is something that they even view as an issue that they're looking into. If it's something that they view as minor (affecting only a few folks like you and I) then that means I need to find a different laptop. But if they think there'll be a new FN+3 type tweak that allows both the CPU and GPU fans to be set on medium then I'll give them the max amount of time I can to fix it before I return the laptop.

 

I spoke with both Xotic and Sager tech support tonight. They were both very courteous to deal with, always a nice thing. And I can't say enough about how great it is to call a number, have a human answer and get directly connected with someone who sounds like they know what they're talking about.

Sager had some interesting things to say regarding my issue. First and foremost they said that they're having a hard time getting feedback from people about whether or not the recent firmware/bios update fixed the issue for most folks. So I'd suggest that if you're one of the people that they've contacted about this that you do what you can to help and get back to them, even if the feedback is that it's the best thing since sliced bread. Second, they're going to look into my issue further since it didn't seem to them that what I was describing (GPU fan cycling every two minutes) was "normal". What may be of interest is that eleron911 and I have the same GPU (the 7950GTX) and many of you others have the 8800. Maybe it's something unique to that piece of hardware. Sager tech support is supposed to call me back tomorrow with an update and I'll certainly pass along whatever information that I can.

One last thing, is there a piece of software that I can use to monitor the fan speeds? I know on my desktop PC I've used SpeedFan so I tried that on the notebook and it can't find a supported chip to monitor. I'd really like to be able to tell if, when the GPU fan is quiet whether or not it's running at all. Right now I have no way of telling that and neither does Sager.

 

The thing is that I developped a tuned ear over the years and I can distinguish a lot of sounds and noises. So I can say that even without the Fn+3 pressed, the laptops starts like this:
1)Gpu fan off, cpu fan quick turn on then off.
2)gradually, the cpu fan kicks in until less then medium speed
3)at 39 C the Gpu fan kicks in at medium.
4)at 35-36C the gpu fan stops.

If I were to press Fn+3 at any time during these steps, it would only cause the CPU fan to kick in at medium instead of less then medium,as it is during normal operations.

If you can get a software that can monitor the speed of the fans,I`m in. I`m really curious to see how the fans behave now.
I thought the firmware had no relationship with the OS,but apparently after switching to Xp, I was able to learn 2 things :
a) If set to MINIMAL POWER MANAGEMENT and Powermizer set to max battery, the gpu fan never kicks in during normal operations. Which is awesome for me, I get to take the laptop to school.
b)I could not remember,but on Vista64 med gpu speed was always on, in Xp,it turns on and off,so it cools off fast. I think this firmware might have been conceived for Vista,which constantly utilizes the gpu therefore not giving it sufficient time to cool to the turn off threshold.
Now that you`ve mentioned it, I`ll email sager about this, telling them that it`s feedback for the firmware. Let`s hope for the best...

 

I've been wondering about the fan firmware as well.

NP5972: T7250, 2GB RAM, 100GB HD, 8800M GTX, Vista 64-bit Home Prem.

I find without pressing anything on start up it's like Eleron says.
When I press fn+3, I can't really hear an audible difference but the fan seems to rev up a bit less often (CPU fan I'm guessing) but there's no huge difference.
If I press fn+1, I get full tilt on all fans. If I press fn+1 again, I get minimal fans - it sounds like they're all reduced to the lowest speed. If I try pressing fn+3 in this setting, nothing seems to happen - fans don't seem to switch back to medium speed.

 

eleron911,

The only thing that I'd disagree with/question is whether or not the GPU fan is running at medium when it kicks on to cool things off (with FN+3 pressed). It certainly sounds to me like it's no running at all and then running full blast (or near it) but I haven't been able to determine that for sure. It seems to me like it's kicking on pretty hard during these times and that the GPU fan doesn't specifically get much louder when I press FN+1 for the full blast fans. And based on the temperature readings that I'm getting out of RivaTuner it wouldn't take much GPU fan to keep the core in check during light use like web browsing, etc.

 

Small Update: Sager technical support called me back today and said that they are aware of the issue with the GPU fan and are currently working on a fix similar to the one that they implemented with the CPU fan. They expect to have something in "a couple of days" and said that they would email it to me directly. I must admit that one, I was shocked to actually get a call back and two, that they full admit that there's an issue regarding this. Given the fact that they responded to the CPU noise issues I'm hopeful that they GPU can be handled in the same fashion so I can keep the 5792.

 

n maher,

Please keep us updated as to how they address the fan issue and how the "fix" works for you. I was also going to say just before your last post Sager could see via Chaz Jefferie's 02/05 review the 5792/3 is loud. Hopefully the fix will work well on both your 7950 card as well as the 8800 GTX(which I plan on getting). Can't wait to purchase the 5793 but, again want to make sure this fan issue is corrected first. Thanks for the update.

 

I'll certainly keep things up to date. Unfortunately for me they've only got about a week to provide a fix before I have to worry about arranging a return with Xotic. :|

I've also taken some SPL readings with my meter and will post those results at some point as well. It's somewhat difficult because the threshold of my meter can't go below 50db and when the GPU fan isn't running the noise is below that.

 

n_maher , my sugestion is to keep it , regardless. It`s the best bang for the buck, and somehow the fan issue will be cleared. You already have the best non SLI 17 inch laptop out there.
I emailed sager support also with feedback,so that should help a bit.
If they do release a new firmware, I guess you and I will be the first to praise Sager

 

I try all known fan monitoring tools and none of them worked (Don't know if it's due to Vista or to the new Santa Rosa). But it's quite easy to check that the fan isn't running at all when you don't ear it : just put your laptop on left or right side and have a look thru the fan grid (eventually with a hand light) : you will easilly see it when it's not running.

According do what I can ear I agree with you, seems the GPU fan only knows two states : ON and OFF.

And I even wonder if the motheboard has the needed hardware that could allow GPU fan to have smooth step by step speed increase according to the temp or load. (Like CPU fan).

I just hope this one will work fine, and for all M570RU, please let us know how it behaves once you get it...

 

UPDATE - I just received an email from Sager w/ a firmware update attached. That's pretty amazing service if you ask me. I hope to try it tonight and will certainly report the results. I've also been told by another friend that as of today Sager has a new firmware release listed on their website (unconfirmed) but I have no idea if it's the same one that they sent me or not although my friend seemed to think it was.

 

A new Sager NP579x EC(Fan) firmware has been released and posted on www.sagernotebook.com version 1.00.07Sd

This release should prevent the GPU fan from turning off and on with in low temperature environment when Fn+3 mid-fan speed is enabled.

 

That´s great! I´ll try and see how it works.

Seems to be louder than before....thinking back to 07sb.....

 

It'll almost certainly have to be a little louder since before with FN_3 was pressed the GPU fan was either running very slowly or not at all (as far as I could tell).

The real question (for me) is a) will it stop the GPU fan from ramping during normal use (web browsing, email, etc) and b) is the resultant noise level acceptable for use in a common room (library, living room, class room, etc.).

 

got it running, at first glance it seems to have fixed the problem =)

 

Well it's good news/bad news for me.

The good news is that the firmware fix does in fact seem to fix the ramping GPU fan issue.

The bad news is that the fan speed setting that is picked by FN_3 is even louder than when the fan would come on before. I find this a bit odd since if the fan speed before (during ramping) was enough to cool things off to the point that it would be able to shut off for a while wouldn't you think that a lower constant speed could have been used?

I've also spoken with a friend of mine who has the 5973 similar spec'd to mine but he went with the 8800. He had no complaints about fan ramping and wondered if there isn't a significant difference between the two cards in terms of cooling (I have the 7950). The bottom line is that I guess I'll call Sager again tomorrow and see if they view this as a closed issue now or if they're willing to work more on getting the fan speed down a reasonable noise level for casual usage. I'm not going to sugar coat it, I'm pretty bummed.

 

oh come on now, fn+3 is BARELY louder, i'm sure they just set the GPU fan to idle at a higher value so that the ramping would never happen.

For me, when I'm in the regular 'silent mode' the GPU ramping has stopped and the whole system runs quiet when I'm not doing much. I throw a game up...boom the gpu fan kicks into medium or high and that's fine.

I think it's a fix...I don't use fn+3 much unless I'm going to be doing something that I know is cpu/gpu intensive.

And fn+1 seems pointless =\

 

I don't know what to tell you, the fact that it's louder at all makes no sense - it doesn't need that much fan to keep things cool as is evidenced by the fact that the fan used to shut off every two minutes. And in my house, it's a big deal that I can literally hear the laptop running from across the house not to mention what it sounds like when you're in the same room with it. Listen, I fully admit that to other people this may be a non-issue, for me it's a big one.

I wish that were the case for me, it's not. I get about 5 minutes of use, MAX, before the ramping starts. And get this, if I close the lid to the laptop (put it to sleep) the fan will still kick on every two minutes or so - that's right, with THE SCREEN OFF. That's highly annoying in my book and means that I can't even leave the laptop in the same room with me while I watch TV.

I would imagine that for many it is, for me it isn't. So you can 'oh come on' me all you want but when I shell out this kind of $$ for something I don't expect to have to live with much in the way of compromises.

 

I agree with you, but Somehow it's gotta shed the heat, and for me in quiet mode it never ramps up unless I start doing something intensive =\

What would your ideal fix be?

 

Given that it shouldn't be producing much in the way of heat while checking email or browsing the web I would think that a pretty low fan speed would be required. But that isn't the case with my system. Talking more with my friend with the 8800 this really does seem something that might be directly linked to the 7950 setup. Bummer for me.

A laptop that when doing non-graphics intensive tasks didn't require having a fan running that's over 60db of noise and in my setup that's 5db louder than the ramping fan. And yes, I measured those noise levels with an SPL meter.

Put it this way, the laptop with the fan running on silent mode (when the GPU fan kicks on) or FN+3 is louder than my ancient desktop - does that sound right to you? It sure doesn't to me.

 

Sure does sound like a 7950 issue then (I'm running the 8800m here), maybe the 7950 has a high idle wattage?

Also have you been monitoring your temps? To try and see what levels kick it on/off/high ?