Sager NP579x Fan Firmware Updated

Get yourself a Zalman ZM-NC2000...

And leave the notebook on default Auto Fan Speed.

The fans will usually not kick in.... which has shown to be true for most of the people with this great cooler and a M570RU.

 

Must be something like that coupled with having a significantly noisier fan than the 8800.

Yeah, I posted about it a few pages back but so you don't have to go looking in auto mode my GPU fan comes on at 40.5C and shuts off at 36.5C. It takes roughly 2mins to cool itself once it hits the 40.5 threshold and stays shut off for about 30 to 45 seconds once it hits 36.5. So the fan on/off cycle is pretty frequent and for me annoying. Also, this is with absolutely nothing running on the laptop, just a plain desktop image displayed.

And Gophn, I appreciate the cooler advice but it doesn't appeal to me at all to have to use an external cooling device in order to be able to surf the web while my wife watches TV.

 

Hi All;

So, is it the general consensus that running XP on the 5792/5793 results in a slightly cooler and quieter system? What I've been able to gather from reading these threads is that Vista's overblown GUI etc. was working the GPU a lot harder than XP.

 

I think you have analyzed it correctly.

 

Probably SP1 for Vista will fix that. Anyone willing to test my affirmation should check the link in my signature.

 

n_maher, I think I spoke too soon. My fan does ramp up to 'full' for a second like it did before, only now it does it less often =\

 

Care to elaborate so I don't have to wade through a 15 page thread? And I don't see how running a less graphics intensive OS is going to fix the fact that my fan is loud. See we're stuck with a combination of things here. If you run in Auto mode you have to live with the ramping CPU fan even if the GPU runs cool enough to not need the fan. If you run in FN_3 mode for me it's too loud for normal use. So what I'm stuck with even if Vista SP1 results in a cooler running laptop is still two poor choices for how to live with the laptop everyday.

And again, I'm running up against a deadline for returning the laptop so I don't have the luxury of waiting to see what future fixes Clevo/Sager comes up with. I'm simply not willing to take the change that I end up with a ~$2500 laptop that bothers me to use around the house and is only good for gaming.

 

SP1 will give more battery life, take less RAM, make the HDD spin less and it will make the CPU usage more stable, so it should be an improvement in the temps department as well.

 

I think you're right, having the GPU fan always ON but at very slow speed would definitely fix the problem...

So that's rather bad new for this upgrade, I'll keep the 07Sb and enable DreamScene so the GPU won't go under the stop treshold temp... But that's not the way I would like this issue to be fixed...

It also affects the 8700M GT, but it seems there aren't a lot of them on this model...

This is the CPU fan issue, it has been fixed in release 07Sb with FN+3 mode

n_maher, when you get in contact with Sager, may you ask them if they request these updates to Clevo or if they made them by themself ? I would just like to know if Clevo gives to their ressellers the necessary software tools to make this kind of update...

 

The firmware comes from Clevo at Sager's request.

 

Thanks Donald for confirming this important point.

 

I've got an email into the Sager tech who sent me the firmware. It's the same person that I spoke with on the phone the other night so I'm hoping that he'll have a chance to take a look at the email some time today or tomorrow and get back to me. And just to give folks some perspective, when I mention 60db that's about the noise level of a normal conversation between people. That's not something to me that would be acceptable in a classroom, library, etc.

 

Well I guess we just have to keep insisting. I`m not even trying this firmware if you guys say it`s louder.
LIKE COME ON! How hard can it be to set MEDIUM MODE from powering on the laptop until a set threshold of say 40 C. IF te fan runs on 50% ever since you start it , with browsing and such,the cpu fan and gpu fan , both at 50% should keep the system below 40C and therefore a constant noise that blends in the background.
THAT IS THE IDEAL SOLLUTION.

 

I got an email back from Sager to tell me that they've forwarded my comments onto their Tech Manager. I'm going to follow up with a phone call tonight to see if there's any way that they can provide some relative noise measurements between a couple common configurations.

One thing occurred to me while I was thinking about this during lunch. My friend, who has a similar set w/ the 8800 purchased his laptop recently enough that he received the new 5793 chassis. I believe that one of the improvements was to the cooling ability of the case (specifically for the CPU) and I'm wondering if that isn't playing a role here as well...

 

I would presume a better chasis and cooling helps,so maybe 5793 users should get a better overall system, thus quieter.
But regardless, I think the trick to lowering the noise is a constant med speed, and that the gpu fan doesn`t stop when reaching 35-36C (in my case) and stays on regardless.

 

Sager responded back to let me know that they're working on it. Hopefully this will mean another firmware update to try in the next couple of days. :fingerscrossed:

 

So how many does that make, 5?

 

n maher,

Just a suggestion, but next time you speak with Sager perhaps you could suggest they get Clevo to put in the firmware that when doing less graphically intensive activities such as getting email, surfing the web, etc. that only the integrated graphics on the motherboard be used(potentially reducing the fan noise and saving battery time). I'm not sure if this is even possible but in theory sounds pretty good. Also, I know you mentioned your friend doesn't seem to have this issue with his 8800 card. Have you actually heard how his sounds when he has his notebook running. It would be nice to get that viewpoint for those of us who are still waiting to see how this whole fan issue pans out before making or not making a purchase of the 5793.

Eleron,

Have you finished your exam yet? Would love to hear your system via Utube.

Thanks to both of you for following up on this issue.

 

I`ll have my exam in 8 hours,after some sleep and after that I`ll post it.
However your sugestion cannot be applied, since that is a hybrid technonlogy not implemented yet in any Clevos. Alienware just started using it.

 

Uniwill has used the integrated/discrete video card technology for a few years now in an effort to save on battery life. However it has two problems that make it unworthy:

1. You have to reboot to switch from one to the other.
2. The battery life savings is minimal...only a few minutes per hour.

Now, if the issue is fan noise only, and you don't mind the reboot, then it is feasible, but don't expect to see it in many models because it just doesn't have enough advantage, and adds a pretty significant amount to the cost of the laptop.

 

No, he lives a few states away so that's not practical. But we're both audio enthusiasts and familiar with relative noise levels measured in decibels and when I mentioned the 61db figure to him his comment was something along the lines of "Wow, that is loud. Mine is nothing close to that." I'll ask if he has any way of taking any measurements of his machine.

I really do believe that there is a solution that lies somewhere in the firmware and modulating the GPU fan speed to something far more reasonable. As I've said before I simply don't have the luxury of keeping the laptop and hoping that they come out with it soon. I'm exactly two weeks into my 30 day return period (my notebook shipped on the 31st) so I figure I have about another week to see if they can get a fix in place before I have to begin talks with Xotic about a return.

 

Man, it`s taking forever to upload a movie onto youtube.Do they compress it at least? It`s 350mb the original quality...so that may explain why it`s takin so darn much. It`s about the fan noise, and a little about the screen

 

are u sure u guys have your power saving / under clocking working ?

seems like some people say that for general browsing etc. its fine for school
while others say its 2 load for quite places n stuff?

possibly a fiddle with vista / xp is required more than any thing els? try turning off Aero so the GPU is not used in desktop work etc

kind of a worries yet to order

 

Mine runs no different regardless of the power management setting (conserve vs. balanced vs. full power).

 

Today I´ve downloaded that new firmware to see if the GPU was lowered on the Fn + 3 situation... but...

The people at Clevo are crazy or what? In this firmware the Fn + 3 is even louder... now the GPU fan stays always on... its louder than the Auto mode...

On my opinion, the GPU fan should continue always on, but on an lower RPM... the RPM used now is to high...

Why you dont do this:

Fn + 1 = Full Speed
Fn + 3 = Midle Speed
Fn + 4(?) = Low Speed

On that new Fn + 4 you should make a profile with the lowest possible RPM on both fans, on safe temperatures.

Just my opinion...

 

We`ve been trying to figure out what to do. The thing is that the gpu fan at medium CAN COOL DOWN the system,because once it hits 39C it CAN cool it down to 35C . So if it were to stay ON all the time, the temperature would stay low,and the noise would not bother anyone.

Upload failed. Stayed like 5 hours and it still didn`t upload the movie. So now I need to find out what I can do to my video to make it smaller so that the 400mb upload won`t kill me

 

In my opinion the GPU fan setting on Fn + 3 is to high... I agree that if it will stay on all the time it can cool the system better... but on a little lower RPM the cooling power remains almost the same with less noise...

For the video, use WinAVI... PM send

 

UPDATE: I just received another firmware release from Sager to try. I'm headed home from work now so I'll report back in a few hours how it works. I'm really, really hoping this is the cure... :fingerscrossed:

 

I've checked with NVIDIA Monitor (wich is part of nTune), even on full power plan and with Aero, my GPU speeds remain at their lower values as long as I'm only doing light work, so it seems that PowerMizer does it's job well regardless of the power plan.

Now the basic fact is : a laptop doesn't have passive cooling system. This means that if the GPU fan is not running, GPU temp increases untill it reaches the fan start treshold. Then the GPU fan starts and as it runs at a high speed it cools down the GPU in less than on minute to the GPU fans stop treshold, and the fans stops. And so on every two minutes...

It's obvious that the only way to fix that issue is to have the GPU fan always on, but should be at low speed (half of the speed we have in firmware 07Sb and Fn+3 would be enough, as the fan was running half of the time at this speed)

Yep, I just don't understand why it seems so difficult for Clevo to fix this issue properly !

There was the same kind of issue with the CPU fan kicking in at full speed for 1 second, and I can still ear it in Auto mode. It has been properly fixed by Clevo in firmware 07Sb with Fn+3 mode by having the CPU fan alway running, not at medium speed but at a very low speed , so you can barely ear it even in quiet place.

So, Clevo guys, why don't you just do the same for the GPU fan ???

n_maher, fingercrossed too, there's a hope

 

n_maher I sure hope this fixes it, cause I plan to take my laptop to do a presentation in a few days and I don`t want to be laughed at because my laptop,as beautiful and powerful as it is, is a freakin cry baby noise maker

 

Lets hope that is the one...

 

What about the m51x's "stealth mode" where it runs integrated graphics for those less-intensive applications?

 

There's no joy in Sagerville. The fan speed selected by FN+3 in the latest firmware revision is still faster/louder than if you just let the fan come on by itself and live the ramping issue. If I had to venture a guess I'd say it's barely less (if at all) than the revision provided a couple of days ago. I think that pretty much seals the deal for me. Frack.

 

Well then .if setting the gpu and cpu fan at 30% until the preset limit for high fan mode is too much, they can go hug trees. I`m officially pissed off.

 

I'm not pissed, just pretty disappointed. This little laptop buying experience is going to end up costing me at least a hundred bucks in shipping costs since it looks like I'm left with little alternative other than to return the unit to Xotic.

 

So Sager can`t understand the message or Clevo can`t? cause you`ve been in contact with them, and I can`t, for the love of God, understand what is so difficult to make the fan speed ALWAYS ON at medium or 30%...

 

I'm guessing it's a safety factor issue. That's something that as an engineer I can keenly understand. It's my guess that they feel that turning the GPU fan lower and running it at a fixed speed could lead to problems, but who knows. I sent them another email yesterday telling them about my experience with the latest firmware and how it was essentially no different than the last. I'm guessing that I'll hear back from them Tuesday (with tomorrow being a holiday) but I think I have to start the return process this week to ensure that I don't get stuck with a notebook that causes me problems.

 

I'm really disappointed too.. , I don't have the option to return the laptop as I bought it in november, but I think I would have chosen another one if I knew this issue wouldn't be fixed.

It's something like buying a Ferrari and receive it with poor quality fabric covered seats, and having a custommer service telling you that for some technical reasons they can't provide you the black leather seats you were expecting !

I don't see where the safety factor issue is... What we want is a firmware based on 07Sb, but where the GPU fan would run at low speed when it's actually not running at all . So that's even more cooling we ask for. For temps above the actual quick in treshosld Clevo can keep their settings so they would take no risk of overheating at all...

I can't believe it's that damn hard for them to understand...

 

Tell me about it...what is the problem of running on medium mode all the time, JUST FOR Fn+3 mode...this is essentially something required when doing easy tasks and activity,not gaming...when gaming, the fans can kick in high for all I care...but I need it to be quieter so that I can use it as a laptop in study halls not just as a gaming laptop in my house...

 

The problem is that it is still loud on medium, especially if you are in a quiet room.

What we need, as I said before, is a solution that downclocks the video card when in 2D mode, something like "stealth" mode on Alienware M15x.

 

There isn`t. Even if running on minimal power management,powermizer and such, depending on room temperature , it`a still a good chance that the fan will kick in.
In some case mine never kicked in(room temp about 21C= 88F)
In other cases started in a few minutes....
SO the deal is : we need the fan at 30 or 50% ALL THE TIME so the noise will blend in the background.But apparently clevo thinks there are risks. What are the risks if the fan is set to run on high at a certain temperature anyway? God,unbelieveble.

 

You already have this. It's called PowerMizer (explained here) and it's an nVidia built in technology.

Just install nTune, and you will be able to check it vith nVidia Monitor.

For my 8700M GT, wich has nominal frequencies of 625Mhz (core) and 800Mhz (memory), it automatically downclocks to 168Mhz (core) and 100Mhz (memory) when doing light 2D work like browsing, and this even if I am on Windows Max Power plan.

So I share eleron911 and n_maher's opinions : we need to have the GPU fan running at low speed when it actually stops. By low speed I mean half of the actual 07Sb Fn+3 speed. This would be enough to prevent the GPU from going over the kick in treshold temp. This would solve the ramping issue and ensure a noiseless operation when doing light work. And Clevo can keep their settings for what is above the kick in temp so they take no risk of overheating at all. Seems clear to me...

I would just like to get an answer from Clevo on this thread.

 

From the Sager senior engineer:

"Yes, we are still studying options.

Please understand it's not that easy. We would love to keep the fan on the lowest possible speed, but there are other things we need to make sure of before putting that in as an option.

Understand that heat builds up, fans create air flow, x amount of air flow can only exhaust y amount of heat

So we have to make sure air flow is greater than the heat or else when you have too much heat, and by the time you speed up the fan it would be too late.

Start a house fire and your garden hose may be able to put it out, at first. Let it burn a little bit longer and try putting it out...

Therefore we have to make sure we have the heat build-up under control at all times. We can't allow the temperature to reach the max point then turn on the fans, it would take longer and be possibly too late to bring
the heat down."

 

So, test them before release... is that so dificult? Im sure that you do that, so that is not an escuse...

Hummm I think that they are not understand what we are saying... we dont whant that the fans keep swich betwen on and off all the time...

What we need it that the fans keep running all the time, but on an low
RPM. Then gradualy rising at the same time as the heat. No simply on an off like all the recent firmwares.


As simple as that...

Justin or paladin44 please pass this info on to them. Thanks

 

this hole issue has put my laptop order on hold..

i don't know if this is a far comparison but the same core as the 8800m GTX... the G92.. runs at far hotter temps that what sager think is "safe"...in its desktop verient the 8800 GT 512 and GTS 512

people (and manufacturers) sell it even with passive coolers now that run at 100c under full load and its still fine..

It could be a totaly different case for the mobile one but i was under the impression it was exactly the same core just on a mobile sized card runner at lower volts/different clocks?


people with m15x are running it at 80c- 84c max load and no complaints of dead cores yet.


if the bios physically only has very low > medium and high.. i can see how sager are in a tight spot however... shame its a amazing power for price laptop beside this issue.

 

Donald, I understand what you mean, I know the GPU can have it's temp increase very quickly, while the cooling system takes some time to cool down things, more especially as it uses a heatpipe between the GPU and the heatsink.

But, like Audigy I think that Sager/Clevo engineers do not really understand what we want.

I think nobody asked for that.

In my previous post I said I would like to have the GPU fan running at a slow speed (instead of beeing off) until it reaches the actual kick in temp (around 40°C) wich is very far from critical temperature (above 100°C). And just keep the actual settings for temperatures above this actual kick in temp. Could you explain me how thid could lead to overheating problems ?

That would even be better The CPU fan works this way and firmware 07Sb has fixed an issue with it by just let it always on at low speed (before it was sometimes starting at full speed for 1 sec before going down to normal speed). Why not have just the same for the GPU fan ?

I just hope Clevo will keep on working on this problem and fix it properly

 

Sager understands what users are asking and are looking into further options. Sager Engineers have commented that it is difficult to find the medium for both Vista/XP but will continue different testing for a better solution. Vista has been confirmed to run better with the firmware then XP. Either myself or Donald will surely update everyone as more information is available.

 

I think it's not that simple. For example, the problem with many overclocks is that although they don't always produce display artifacts, they might still be too hot for the graphics card and be slowly damaging it.

An overclock might take a year to damage your GPU enough that you'll start noticing problems.

I think it's the same here--you can't just leave the new fan firmware on overnight and say "Okay guess we can ship!" Think of where they're coming from. I don't know how big their customer base is, but let's say they shipped 1 million 57ru's:

250,000 of those people have both 2 year warranty + downloaded the latest fan firmware. The overnight test worked fine, and those 250,000 users installed the new firmware, but after 1 year it killed all of their GPU's.

Now, Sager/Clevo have *huge replacement costs* because of all those people still under warranty. I'm assuming this is what they want to avoid.

Remember at the beginning of the thread everyone was thanking Sager/Clevo for being so responsive to our needs? I still thank them, and I think we should try to be more optimistic--they are trying, and I'm personally astonished that they're actually communicating to us through resellers XoticPC and PowerNotebooks (thanks Justin & Donald).

Edit: Even more complex, consider the same scenario above. Maybe some of those people have air conditioned houses, and others don't--but Clevo has to accommodate both types of users. I guess if this sort of thing interests you, then try to get into engineering and see if you can develop something better/cheaper than cooling fans: we could definitely use it

 

We have a new testing firmware we just received tonight we can email to a few volunteers that would like to test it and report their feedback. Please use my email address below and I can forward it for review.

 

Thats not the point here... the problem, is that the RPM of the GPU should had the same control as the CPU fan, gradual not only on or off. Simple...

The problems that you brought to the table are out of context. An example:

You configure it to 30% if the temperature stays below 35ºC. If that temperature rises to 40ºC then the fan rises to 40%, 45ºC 50%, 50ºC 60%, 55ºC 70%, 60ºC 80%, 65ºC 90% and 70ºC 100%.

Compare with the actual configuration:

If the temperature stays below 47ºC then the GPU fan keeps off. Pass that point it turns on until it reach 43ºC then turn off again.

You will not kill you GPU with this...


I whant to thank to Justin and Donald too... they have been very helpfull. Remember that I am only trying to help, as an another Clevo owner...

We need to speak not keep shut and waiting for Clevo to fix it...