Sager has confirmed with Clevo that the M860TU will not support 44W+ processors or the 9800M GTX because of the thermal budget!

Nice speech of Donald. much more effective than 100 posts of mine.

 

Donald put it down there and cleared every thing up. We cant really argue anymore about PCMW it was a pointless arguement anyway and it was geting confusing. Good job

 

Agreed. I think that we also need to recognize that a lot of the time we don't get to be privy to much of what goes on behind the scenes, not because people like Paladin44 are trying to hide the truth from us for their own gain, but because they operate under rather stringent nondisclosure agreements (NDAs) that basically make it impossible for them to say anything until the information-owner, e.g., Intel or Clevo, says they can, and Intel and Clevo give, or don't give, such permission solely for their own benefit - we should all keep in mind that this means that Paladin44 really went out on a limb when he convinced Clevo to release the photo of the underside of the M860TU prototype.

If you want to see what one of this nasty little NDAs looks like, this is an Intel-provided summary of the substantive terms of the standard Intel Corporate Nondisclosure Agreement ("CDNA").

As an example of why these things can be so difficult to deal with, here's the paragraph that defines "Confidential Information":

Particular focus should be given to clause (ii), which appears fairly innocuous at first glance; however, because of the way it is written, it can have the effect of basically preventing the signer from saying anything about anything s/he has discussed with a person at Intel because you never know if, subsequent to that discussion (for up to 5 years, no less), Intel won't give you a piece of paper containing information that relates to that conversation, and that has the word "confidential" stamped on it.

Read through those substantive provisions carefully if you've any interest in the topic, and I think you'll come away with a greater appreciation for the pressures the resellers can come under in terms of satisfying both their customers' desire to know and their legal obligations under NDAs they've signed, without which they'd be DOA as they'd be unable to continue doing business.

 

I feel bad for anyone that owns or STILL plans to own a PCMW computer. After this I can't see how they will have any more reputation as a seller, thus leading to decreased sales. Not to mention the possibility of Clevo/Intel sewing their asses.

If they go out of business everyone's service is void. That blows hard.

 

Not necessarily; it depends on whether they self-insure or have coverage with a third party insurer.

 

damn, sewing someones ass sounds painful...

I'm guessing you meant "suing"

 

Shyster1, as I have said before there are no 3rd party insurers out there, other than the chain back to Eurocom, and for Eurocom back to Clevo.

That will take care of the basic warranty repairs, but in no way will either of them take on the "Diamond" plan of taking old technology back for any kind of credit toward new technology at wholesale pricing. Also, it is unlikely that the warranty will extend beyond the 1st year.

 

I think YOU won the game of croquet

Nice post Donald, very clear +rep

 

There are, indeed, third-party companies that will take on warranty-like risks, at least beyond the basic warranty (and the implied warranties) given by the retailer, although these arrangements typically go by the name of extended warranty, service contract, etc. For a short discussion in a somewhat outdated article, see this article from Warranty Week. One of the companies that currently offers such services is Repairmaster, now a division of Warrantech.

Since the bulk of the so-called Diamond Plan amounts to an extended warranty/service plan, there are companies that, for a fee, will provide such services, and the only question is whether PCMW works with a 3rd party or not - since they don't seem to disclose anything like that on their website, I'm going to assume that they don't.

 

Well, yeah, but that's because, when the Red Queen yelled "off with their heads!" he already had a sword at the ready.

 

My comment did not intend to mean that Philips Magnavox, MediaMedics, Warrantech and others are not out there, but as you say PCMW does not indicate they are using any of them...and I still maintain that none of them, nor Eurocom, nor Clevo will take on the "Diamond" features that are purely unique to PCMW.

A warranty is only as good as the company standing behind it.

 

Fair dinkum. I think that a third party would take on the benefits provided by the Diamond plan, but certainly not for the fee PCMW is charging for it - keep raising the premium and eventually you'll find someone willing to cover almost any risk.

No truer words have yet been spoken on the subject!

 

+ Rep Donald. Thanks for everything.

 

If the 9800M GTX is hopeless, at least at the moment, what do you think about the latest additions they made to the selection of video cards, the 3870HD and the Quadro FX3600M?

They added them just recently, so by now they should be at least aware of the problems they are going to face with the 9800M. Is this another meaningless claim, or these two boards can be really supported by the M860TU?

 

9800m GTS will be on it.

 

That's right, I meant the 9800M GTX

 

wouldn't it be hilarious if paladin showed us a prototype model that isn't even used anymore and the actual m860tu does have 3 fans? okay i'll shut up now. Don't worry. I don't actually believe that. Paladin went through alot of work to show us that image.

 

@Paladin,

Well, what can I say, thank you for clarifing all the posts towards PCMW being lieing and misleading.

In my defence I can only say this:

I honestely haven't read all the posts as the thread is really long. Neither I have the intimate knowledge about PCMW and Eurocom business that you seam to have. So for me there were too many possible happenings to promply conclude what you conclude.

From all you summarize, yeah we can only conclude that.

Trance

 

Just saw this thread.. what a bummer i hope they put the 9800M GTX with the 17"

 

The M570TU will support the 9800M GTX

 

47pgs & counting wow

i checked pcmw they still have the sale up and options for the 9800.
how long you guys think the page will still be up if or when they probably realize 9800 isnt an option? i'll be needing a lappy soon and if this news is true aw might gain a new customer.

 

Yes, the Sager NP579x (M570TU) will have the 9800M GTX available.

 

guess i'll be going for M570TU then, but its gonna be my first 17" notebook thanks for the Info

yeah i was wondering about that... when will they put it down but i guess i will just be purchasing mine from xoticpc, a lot of my clevo/sager friend recommend that place

 

@Paladin,

I've read more carefully what PCMW config options for the M860TU . In their site they have:

http://www.pcmicroworks.com/store/customize.php

nVIDIA Geforce 9800M GTX 1024MB DDR3 EXTREME GPU ETA 7/31 [+155]

Core™2 Extreme Quad Core QX9300 (2.53GHz/1066MHz/12MB) ETA 7/31 [+780]

So basically what they are stating is that in about a two months give or take they will have the 9800M GTX to be shipped customer.

You wrote on your post that:

"PCMW said that the M860TU would be available with the 9800M GTX...Clevo says it won't."

"Notwithstanding this PCMW continues to falsely advertise that it will deliver the M860TU with the 9800M GTX, and continues to take orders and people's money."

Can I conclude that Clevo will not offer the 9800M GTX two months give or take after the first release with the 8800M GTX? Or better still, that Clevo has no plans to deliver such card on the M860TU? Becouse the inverse is what I can take from PCMW statements.

I know that you are under NDA but if you know that the 9800M GTX will not be put in the initial batch of this notebook but it is expected to come later (say "short" after the initial release as PCMW advertises) what can I conclude besides the possible fact that the ETA is probably wrong?

Please clarify as details are important in this case considering what PCMW is actually stating. If you look at the dates (ETAs) PCMW is stating that they will have the notebooks and some other cards before the 9800M GTX is released for this notebook. The 9800M GTX will be released so they say!

If they are violating the NDA that is another matter and probably their should be fined by Clevo and Intel. As for the rest I'm not really that sure for the moment.

For all it is worth I don't really like the PCMW tactics. Becouse of that I wouldn't ever buy from them if even I could, but not that I think they are lieing or scamming (apart from little lies here and there that I compare to spicing up the CV). I simply don't like the way they seam to forecast ETA's and announce them since there are reasons to say that they are at least irresponsible and as a result MISLEADING and they show no concern about that. They are indeed playing a very annoying game to say the least and tottally unecessary - if you don't have respect for the market the market will not respect you.

+1 to Paladin & Co for being honest and only playing the business game with 100% reliable information. Nevertheless I get fealing he knows more then what is being shared But that is normal and fair.

Trance

 

As far as sager and clevo are concerned at the moment, the 9800M GTX will NEVER be in the M860TU as it does not have the capacity to properly cool it.

If PCMW think they can a) get hold of a compatible casing for it or b) mod the casing of either a 570tu one or an 8800 casing and fit it in, thats totally up to them.

 

how about this for a theory.
PCMW is actually a seperate company, but is run by eurocom in the background. This little stunt that pcmw is pulling off with montevina will soon cost them a huge amount of fines. Since they recieve this penalty for brakeing NDA, pcmw go bankrupt to avoid any more folly. To keep the customers, they act as if eurcom will now cover their aftercare, even though it was already eurocom dealing with them.

In foresight, eurocom saw that having 2 companies was too costly for the limited high end notebook market and used this oportunity to downsize back to the orriginal and only eurocom ^_^

 

Haha.. this is the best thread ever! The last one was a Great cliffhanger!! Please don't stop I've been updating the page every five minutes for a week now.. I'm completly addicted

I'll keep this in mind if you, allthough highly unlikely, were to apply for a job in my firm

 

cliffhanger? my post?

 

Yes, your conclusion that Clevo will NOT offer the M9800 GTX once it is launched in the M860TU, or at any time after it is launched is correct. Please re-read this paragraph for reference:
"For those who do not understand how it works for the nVIDIA cards, let me explain that it is Clevo that develops them for their models using technology and licensing from nVIDIA, and Clevo is simply not developing the 9800M GTX for this model, and neither Eurocom nor PCMW have the capacity or the license from nVIDIA to do it."

Ok, for clarity: Not now, not ever, not for anyone

 

@Donald,

Thanks for clarifying. Kudus to you

Trance

 

So it's a case closed, 9800M GTX wil NOT BE in the 860TU.
Can't get any clearer that this.
Eurocom, PCMW, any last words?

 

I think they will are too busy

Trance

 

i think screw all manufacturers, lets team up and make our own laptop. Ill meet you all at the secret factory in 20mins

 

I'll bring popcorn

 

no meet behind the train station

 

I've got extras on chips-n-dip!


Or

+

Take your pick!

 

lol i liked that +rep for you

 

^--^

Ok, so I am here...waiting...where are you guys?

Oh, did someone say behind the train station?

 

Ahh, I see the brains of the operation have arrived.

 

I'm gonna save this quote.

 

I missed a turn, can't park my 911 anywhere. Damn traffic!

 

you mean mine?

 

No, MINE!

 

So, is it the train station or the secret factory?

Which train station?

 

aww paladin is playfull too! anyways, its the train station behind the secret factory. if you can find it, take the secret track, to the secret stop, on the secret train.

On a side note, i have noticed that eurocom has taken out the quad core cpu's and the 9800m GTX from the configuration page.
they have also taken the centrino2 logo down for some reason, yet they still advertise it as a laptop that uses an 8800mGTX or 9800M GTX

If what PCMW says is true, they will not even get the 9800m GTX now to even break the laws of reality and attempt the clevo impossible of putting the 9800m GTX in their beloved edge.

 

CRRNJ Terminal in Liberty State Park, NJ

 

i'll be damned if this turns into a publicity stunt

 

If it's all about thermal issues it would be possible to put a downclocked 9800M GTX?

 

Why would you want that? And why would clevo do all the work developing and manufacturing the parts to install a downclocked GPU?

 

A lot of manufacturers place underclocked versions of GPUs , like my Ati X1600 is in the HP NX9420, but OCing takes care of that...
But in the high end sector, underclocking is a fashion no-no...
Like this guy :