Sager has confirmed with Clevo that the M860TU will not support 44W+ processors or the 9800M GTX because of the thermal budget!

Oh, I see. Slipped my eyes,too focused on exam
Yes, I guess Eurocom is trying to fit desktop cards in the 860TU now, eh?

 

Don't

 

WOW! Shyster1 you really are talented with those pictures.

 

Thanks! Now, if only I were talented at something useful....

 

maybe the GPU will be downclocked to accomodate inside the M860tu, but maybe we will still have the possibility to later run it at full speed as it was intended when we have it plugged in and connected to a cooler to release its full potential, perhaps some OCing also.

HEY! its possible..... im not be hopefull,,..... not im not... no.. no... no

 

We were told that M860TU will never have the 9800M GTX according to Clevo. Hope it keeps that way until the end of the year otherwise the attack to PCMW marketing strategy is tottally unjustifiable and un-ethical to say the least.

Trance
PS: If people accuse them of liers due to the fact that they tell customer that they build the units themseves then so are VOODOOPC, FalconNorthwest etc etc. But they are not on "trial" are they, indeed they are considered "respectable".

 

Afraid I've gotta disagree with you on this point - the PCMW campaign promised M860TU with 9800GTX and extreme processor now, subject only to delivery of components, that is, a presently existing configuration. This they cannot, and could not, deliver. If, for whatever reason, the 9800GTX subsequently becomes capable of being used in the M860TU, that system will be one other than the one that PCMW promised.

To put it in the words of an inimitable grifter,
I'd gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

 

Mmmmhmmmm.

 

@Shyster,

"Afraid I've gotta disagree with you on this point - the PCMW campaign promised M860TU with 9800GTX and extreme processor now, subject only to delivery of components, that is, a presently existing configuration."

That is your interpretation ("subject only to delivery of components"). Do you know that it is quite common in business to start selling/marketing something prior to its existence to hook the customer? I can give you tons of examples of that. Indeed the only thing they will be guilty IMHO is of irresponsible ETAs if eventually the 9800M GTX comes out for this notebook (misleading forecasts).

Even if they don't control their suppliers (NVDIA, INTEL, CLEVO etc etc) is totally legit of them to make a forecast based on available data (including market trends). Then use that forecast on their campaigns. Forcasts by definition carry risks. Some companies can afford to do none others do not. IMHO, the problem is if they don't deliver it during a working time frame (two months is too long to hold on customers money without delivering the product!).

As I said, if they are violating NDA's they should be fined. But I haven't heard anything about that.

Trance

 

@DFTrance: I suppose then that we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

i cant tell if he is just thick, or is actually an undercover PCMW spy on these forums. I/we could battle on his points, but i dont think it will ever connect.

 

@Heliosvector,

My skin is thick as of a Crocodile and agile as James Bond. Unfortunately I don't get the girls ($$$).

We would never connect becouse you are being one sided. I have not yet took parties, neither I have any reason to. In other words, I believe that people can buy from PCMW as well as they can buy from any other company since it has a good track record with their customers!!!!!!!!!

Rest assured if I was in the US and had some business venture with a Clevo(s) I would probably align myself with Sager. They seam to be stronger ("fight the weak and avoid the ones that are stronger" - Art of War, Sun Tzu)

Trance

 

I dont really see how i am being one sided as i have yet to place an order with another company or even choose one for that matter. Did you not know that i currently have an order with PCMW? not just by credit card, but they phisicaly have my money there now.

I say that i am undecided because im canceling it soon. SO TAKE THAT!!!

you mentioned once that we should not get mad at pcmw for advertising things that are not yet out yet because many other companies have done this. Tell me this though, have these certain companies recieved permission to advertise? Yes, I think they have. PCMW have not.
Advertising is one thing, but actually taking the customes money off of customers in anticipation for a not already released technology, nevermind a seperate product.

This course of action by pcmw is unfair on intel as it puts pressure on them to help get pcmw their sales on time. Im sure intel doesnt give a hoot how pcmw do, but it sure must be a pain in the backside for them.

by the way,what is that avatar pic of? always wanted to know.

 

@Helios,

That I'm afraid I don't understand. If I had your opinion about how they do business when compared to others I would never buy from them, irrespective if they have or don't have good customers reviews.

Furthermore in your case since you payed for it I would ask for some repair (or interests).

"Advertising is one thing, but actually taking the customes money off of customers in anticipation for a not already released technology, nevermind a seperate product."

It happens all the time mate. It is all about how much you trust the company you are buying from. Or in case of failure, how much will you get from that company (negotiation). I've done that even with realeased technology (ETAs where not met over and over again until I decided that was enough)

This thread not only informed people about Clevo, NVIDIA and Intel policy according to the information available to Sager for the moment but did much more then that wouldn't you think? If you don't think so then you are naive.

As for NDA et all, if there is a case to be fined they should be fined, otherwise in practical terms there is no case.

If I was in the US I for one would by from XoticPC, not becouse of PCMW current practices but becouse Justin does not do forecasts, he works only with internal official data from Clevo and Sager, and for me that is what I would want. Furthermore customer reviews are good as well. These are the points that make them preferable to me although the Trade-in policy in the Diamond Warranty package of PCMW seams to be a good temptation

Trance

PS: The problem of PCMW is that it does not have critical mass, in other words they don't have yet the size to be the predators they probably would like to be

 

That I'm afraid I don't understand. If I had your opinion about how they do business when compared to others I would never buy from them, irrespective if they have or don't have good customers reviews.

then what exactly is your opinion if mine has no effect on it. You also ignored the fact that i said pcmw does not have permission to advertise the product like other people are allowed to when they have permission.

Furthermore in your case since you payed for it I would ask for some repair (or interests).

what?

As for NDA et all, if there is a case to be fined they should be fined, otherwise in practical terms there is no case.

well for practical terms, they showed the laptop as weighing 6.5lbs when it is actually 7.1lbs. i know they say aproximately, but when you start cutting up pounds into decimal, you dont expect the end result to be 1/2pound more.
they also said the system had 3 fans. as this statement was from a rep and not an actual statement, we can discredit it.

then back to adverts, neither this symbol



or this symbol


should be advertised anywhere on the net as they are not out yet and not allowed under NDA.

wimax should be stated that it will not be included, yet be able to be upgraded to it.

you never told me what your avatar pic is.

 

Who's that?

 

I think he was indicating that you should ask for reparations and/or interest on the "loan" you floated to PCMW

 

@Helios,

"then what exactly is your opinion if mine has no effect on it. You also ignored the fact that i said pcmw does not have permission to advertise the product like other people are allowed to when they have permission."

If I go to a trade show, a representative tells me (or the world) that some system will suport X tech (including WiMax) without signing any NDA, that information becomes public domain. A lot of things they have on their site is already well known by the market for some time. What owuld bug me as a "potential" customer is the way they forcast ETAs and if they don't deliver what is in their specs in a time frame that is usefull to their customers. All of them subject to negotiation at least in case of failure.

I don't know much about the US law, but once information is released to the public without a NDA contract one way or another I believe it can be used. Intel supporting WiMax in their new chips is a well known fact so I doupt the effectiveness of the usual NDA in this case.

As for the prohibition to accept pre-orders etc etc, I take the word of Donald so they should be fined! I don't know what is signed between a reseller and Intel over these things.

But if that is not the case, take of instance the iPhone 3G. Apple only showed it to the world yesterday, and companies today are already accepting pre-orders. HAVE you seen it anywhere else on the net before yesterday? No. But you HAVE in the case of all the tech mentioned by PCMW, so is not that they are disclosing something showed privately to selected partners under NDA. Quite the contrary, it wsa talked about most probably on the usual trade show were suppliers advertise their the capabilities of their soon to come products. When things are show in this way it is expected that information will be discussed and published accorss the usual channels, most importantly the Internet.

what?

Let me explain. If I pay for something to be delivered in a month and it takes 3 months I have the right to advocate for money lost (money not in my bank account = me loosing money).

As for the rest, in some other thread people already mentioned that it will be available. If they were authorized why wouldn't PCMW be also?

Trance

 

By the way my Avatar is a cut of some Crysis wallpaper I've found on the net. The wallpaper is awesome

http://crysis.czechgamer.com/images/39.jpg

About Wimax and NDA:

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=WiMax logo&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

They could be fined not becouse of any NDA but becouse of miss use of a trademark if eventually they don't deliver the WiMax capability on their products. The same goes if they don't deliver the NVIDIA 9800M GTX on the Edge.

But that is more within the realm of corporate wars then the case of breaking a good customer/PCMW relationship wouldn't you think?

As I've said, I hope the 9800M GTX will not fit the bill this year and/or they can't legally accept pre-orders, otherwise IMHO a lot of things argued on this forum against PCMW were not as clean as one might believe, even when data (from Clevo) upon which part of opinions were made are official for the moment. Assuming that the pre-orders by PCMW are legal, It is entirely legit for a business to make forecasts according to their expectations even if we don't agree with them. But be warned, IMHO these are simply forecasts they might be doing, as such cover your back on the deal or go somewhere else

Trance

 

this is our conversation

 

Reminds me of StarGate's premise.

 

I agree

Trance

 

atleast we agree on something

 

lol!......

 

Hi guys,

I went from an m15x to anxiously awaiting Montevina to currently impulse buying an m17x. Why? .
It seems that no notebook manufacturer can get it right. Yes I know that "size" is a limitation for cooling and as a result, alot of things must be sacrificed... But seriously... This?

An M860TU with NO 9800M GTX, a 6 month old video card as a top option (the 8800m) and NO quad core or Xtreme processor support? What should anyone wait 6 months for and buy an inferior m15x? I mean atleast having an m15x for 6 months prior to this montevina hack-job would suffice the 300-500 premium you'd pay.

Another thing, the M570... It's a big brick and ugly! THey're both ugly! I can't even begin to relay how disappointed I am in the manual not having quad core support in this either! Is it because it's late? It doesn't even matter because the m17x is smaller than the M570 and it has 2 video cards!

I'm not a pro-alienware guy. Clevo had me waiting for a month on a "killer" laptop that is turning out to be a new platform that isn't what I envisioned it to be initially, making it mediocre.

When are companies gonna smarten up and say "okay, a certain person wouldn't mind spending 200-300 more on a 15" laptop with a more expensive metal (HELLO TITANIUM!) to conduct the heat more efficiently... Instead Clevo has killed their own 15" and made a 17" that's specs were supposed to be for the 15" M860TU. They're both ugly, and they're both coming out in a month and a half.

What the heck do I do guys?> I'm frustrated. I check these websites everyday to hope that the new 15" Montevina laptop with a 9800m is coming but now my hope is dying and I may settle for an inferior santa rosa with 2 8800Ms because I just can't find a good 15" that has montevina and 9800m And it seems I probably won't. I just don't see the point in buying the M570 when the M17x is better.

For those saying DDR3 and FSB are crucial in performance, I'd know because my desktop is running 2x2GB PC14400 Memory and a 1333 FSB quad Extreme overclocked to 1800 FSB, and I can tell you it's snappier but unquantifiably faster. FOr those waiting for Montevina to see 3fold in performance, you won't see it. Only games that memory intensive will show a significant performance leap.
Anyways, back to my original question.

WHAT DO I DO? Mr Donald or Paladin44 (whatever you prefer to be called). What do the people who want 15" powerhouse laptops do? I mean it seems that the market was going to be pushed in this direction 6 months ago and now it's veering back to the original "big brick" 17" laptops having the good stuff and the 15"s being mediocre or a little above average.... What do we do ?!

Thanks for sharing my frustration guys, I"m sure there are more of you out there who share the same situation because of waiting so long.

 

Wow man you need to calm down, this not the place to vent. Clevo's design has always been that way so what different aesthetic were you expecting. And your comments against Paladin44 are not necessary and rude.

 

r u serious just wait are get a sager iwth everything. the 8800m gtx sli is not bad at all

 

Haha, you're complaining that you can only get an 8800GTX and not a 9800GTX, but look up some benchmarks dude! The 8800GTX is BETTER than the 9800GTX, the 9800GTX is a renamed 8800GTS.

 

In all honesty, after reading your post twice I still can't quite comprehend what you're angry about. If you're angry about the M860TU not being able to use the 9800M GTX like eurocom or whatever claimed, then I would understand since that's like false advertising. I wonder if they'll ever get sued for that..

As for the M570 looking ugly, that is all a matter of taste, and if you don't like it then that's just too bad for you. I on the other hand, actually like the way it looks.

I don't see why you're complaining that the M860TU has no quad core processor support, I mean it's a 15" and I don't think any 15" has that so far. If you want a powerhouse 15", then still go for the M860TU or m15x if you ask me.

 

Clevo has never officially said the M860TU will support 9800M GTX... they just said that it will ship initially with 8800M GTX.

It may fit the system, but the heat may be on the high side.

 

ummm.. as far as GTX's go, YOU prolly SHOULD look up some benchmarks... and as for the 9800M vs 8800M i think the 9800 will also def. win.

 

I love how you consider the 8800m an old video card. I guess if you have a 4-5k budget its okay but an 8800 is top of the line and will be for a while with the only competition being the 9800GTX unless Nvidia is going all out with the 9x series. I've never seen a point where the 15" laptops have had equal power to their 17" counterpoints not to mention them coming out at the same time. I hope you have a big external display to take advantage of the SLI.

I love Sager for its good prices and its subtle looks. If you want to pay for looks look at Falcon Northwest or Voodoo. You can also get custom paints on the Sagers if you want.

 

Since your patience will soon be getting the best of you, I'd say get the M15x now and not worry about the "ugly" looks of the M70 or the non-availability of the 9800GTX in the two Clevo notebooks.

 

There is no attack on Paladin.
I'm asking him for advice.
I'm not attack Clevo, I"m just FRUSTRATED.

The 9800m GTX should be better than the 8800m GTX no doubt. THat's what I was talking about.
I am a power user, I need a quad core. I can live with a dual core but I feel restrained. I usually have 10-20 apps open at the same time because I like doing tonnes of things at once... Yes they are intensive enough to need their own core.

This isn't an attack on anyone, It's just frustration that there is no masher 15" laptop using Montevina. Santa Rosa is like stale chips... Whereas Montevina are freshly fried... The problem is the Stale Chips have better flavors whereas the fresh chips have horse poop garnishing

 

i personally for looks like the xps from dell the sager doesnt suit me for looks

blackhawk also looks ok

 

Btw I'm not after super shmancy laptops. I'm not an apple person who feels they're better than everyone else. I just want something I can fit in a bookbag and play games at university unstrained.
My home rig is wired to a 27" but it will soon have a 30" when I find the adequate panel. I want power mobility gaming so bad, but being tall and having small joints, I don't want to have to strain my backalong with textbooks in order to do so... 10 lbs is pushing it for me but since the M15x was 1.6" thick I dont think 3 extra lbs and half an inch will kill me... But I want Montevina ><

 

I dnt understand your problem.Clevo hasn't said anything officially as far as I know.As for PCMW offering 9800GTX,they still do.You must have seen a lot of Clevo models before and none of them won any awards for looks.It will be same for ever.

 

I wonder why Alienware, Clevo, Voodoo, HyperSonic etc. are the only companies trying to get an 8800/9800 GTX into a 15 inch notebook. All the other leading brands like Apple, Acer, HP, Lenovo, Sony, Toshiba can hardly get an 8800 GT into their 17 inch notebooks.
I just don't understand it. Do you guys game that often? It's the same thing with cars. The 8800GTX=V12 8700=V8 8600=V6 and 8400=V4. Who needs all that performance, unless your racing? A person needs something practical. Obviously, with a 8800GTX, your sacrificing battery life and your notebook will overheat. It isn't worth it, unless your gaming every day for hours, which only someone crazy would do.

 

I feel the frustration you do. And all those who were so quick so slander the AW M17x for its "nominal" performance upgrade from the prior 17's released, well **** you.

Just to be clear. I am getting the M860

But I do understand the frustration. Eurocom. **** you too

 

If you're gonna bring your laptop around with you at school then you probably would not want quad and sli that will destroy any type of battery life you get. Not to mention you really don't need THAT much power for gaming. especially if you're playing on a 15" screen. 8800gtx will save you money and its pretty much all you need. Quad is a little excessive in the laptop also. I guess if you have the money why not spend it but if its just for playing games then you don't need THAT much power in a 15" without external.

 

Dude, calm yourself down. Nothing as of now is wrong with the base specs of the m860tu, and it is actually better than the m15x in terms of that. However, Nvidia may be dropping the thermal usage of the 9800m GTX to accommodate the m860tu. Keep in mind, people say things are impossible and would never happen, but then 6 months down the road I can DEFINITELY see the 9800m GTX as an upgradeable option to the machine. Maybe not for Sager or their resellers but definitely Eurocom and PCMW, they are crazy enough to do those things first. lol.

Or....you can go buy your m17x, and then cuss yourself 6 months from now. I'm saying why you would, I just have a feeling you would. That's all.

 

@NoelGallagher

I understand that you are new on this forum, but take a minute and look around. The members here can express themselves without all of that offensive language...why can't you? Do you really think any of the people here that want to have civil conversations will give your post any credibility?

I would strongly recommend reviewing your posts and expressing yourself properly, in a civil manner, without having to show everyone your potty mouth.

If you accept my recommendation, I will be happy to respond to your questions...but until then I will ignore you, as will most of the readers and members here.

 

Well I'm not offended with NoelGallagher posts... He acutally think of Paladin as a person who knows a lot about this buisiness and thats why he asked for you opinion paladin.... just let him get out his frustration and count the fact that he NEVER insulted anyone....

If Im wrong, plz tell me where he insulted anyone in here and as a punishment I will leave the forum from posts forever..

EDIT, WE dont need to be that sensitive, we are talkin' about a professional forum and company

 

I suggest you read my post sir it clearly asks you for your advice.
Rule 1: Never skip someone's original post and read the person's post who didn't read the original post-in-question properly. I never insulted you, I asked you for your sage advice. Instead you skip my long banter and you read someone's post who incorrectly read mine. I didn't have any foul language unless you think heck and hell are bad. WHatever the confusion, I apologize.

Nonetheless m17x is looking real hot right now. Just like getting wasted at a bar and looking at a horse of a woman. There's some sara jessica parker in her.

 

man, youre even worse than xephon....and i really didnt like him

btw, your similes suck

"Just like getting wasted at a bar and looking at a horse of a woman. There's some sara jessica parker in her."

 

NoelGallagher, who told you that m860tu won't support quadcore?

 

At this time, according to Intel specifications (not unsubstantiated rumor) all Montevina quad core processors are at least 44W, and therefore not supported by the Clevo M860TU because they will exceed the thermal budget.

While there may be some that put them in the M860TU anyway, it will void the Clevo warranty (as well as the Sager warranty if it has the Sager brand on it).

That is the point that Clevo was making when confirming the subject of this thread to Sager. Please see the OP of this thread.

 

How's about a break for the evening guys? I'm sure there're a lot beers out there getting awfully lonely right now.

 

noel i think a couple post back you said the M17x was smaller then the 570RU that is wrong the m17x is like 11 pounds and 2.1 inches thick the 570RU or TU is alot smaller then the M17X and looks well people all have different opinions. I think the M860TU will be better then the M15x.M860TU has better build quality then the M15X i know from experince. Has the montevina platform DDR3, bigger FSB and you can have same GPU which could possible be upgraded later as well as same or better CPU. I agree waiting sucks but thats tech and we all have to wait.

Edit: I forgot about the price to you can save money with the Clevo

 

wow, you guys shyster is right. cool down. no ones attacking. just some foul language. just need to straighten out this new guy. hehe. shyster i think its time for a crack of an image.