Sager has confirmed with Clevo that the M860TU will not support 44W+ processors or the 9800M GTX because of the thermal budget!

Rarely is a company ******ed just because some consumer went and whined to the local consumer protection agency - we've plenty of them over here, too - federal, state, and local - and the same result occurs. It might be a little more of a threat to a company that has a fixed location and depends for all of its business on its local neighbors, but a company that depends primarily on online business doesn't really have to give a d**n about the opinion of its neighbors.

So, you go right on ahead and complain to the local consumer agency, then come back in about a year and let us know if you ever got your computer fixed - my bet's on "No."

 

Do you live in germany? My bet´s also "No". So why discussing about law in germany? No offence, i just wanna figure out why 2 companies in germany are offering the X9100 for NOW.

best regards

 

Why? Because the typical "consumer" gets a snow-job when they're told about all the wonderful "benefits" they'll get from this or that agency that's going to look out for them and their interests, and almost always, the only folks who benefit are the insiders who get to staff the new agency and plant their big, fat arses in the public tax trough. Which, by the way, is one of the significant reasons why Clevos are more expensive in Europe than in the US.

That rule has held true since the days of the Roman republic, at least (go read some Cicero), and continues to be valid today. I don't need to know German law in-depth, I just need to know enough about human nature, to be able to give a reasonable guess about the likely outcome with a company that does not want to cooperate.


Why would they offer an unsupported CPU? Gullibility, greed, and undue optimism - probably combined with a very lazy attitude toward revising the website.

Besides which, once you order, they've got your money, and, since "Spezifikationen sind unter Vorbehalt" (at least as google translator would have it), you can't do a thing if they can't perform. Instead, they've already got your money, so in order to get it back, you're going to have to spend an hour or so talking to a very smooth salesman on the phone who is going to do his best to soft-sell you into some other system they have available - oh, he'll commiserate with you, be apologetic, make sly jokes at the company's own expense - but in the end, more often than not he's going to keep your money and you'll be buying a system you didn't want but got talked into buying because you didn't have the stamina to outlast Mr. Smoothie.

Lastly, if worst comes to worst, they send you your money back - in about two or three months - in the meantime, it's sitting in a bank somewheres, or perhaps is invested in a money market account or a CD, and is earning interest. That may seem small potatoes to you, on just your 2,000 Euro - 3% annual for only two months on that amount is only about 10 Euro of interest income - but when you figure on doing that with 1,000 customers, which means you've got a deposit amount of 2 million Euro, which means you're going to be able to get a much better interest rate, say 5%, which means that the bad-faith vendor who takes money for something he cannot possibly sell still gets to earn about 16,668 Euro for doing nothing more over the course of two months than (a) promising to deliver what he cannot, and (b) explaining to you why administrative procedures cause it to take so long for your refund claim to be processed and your refund to be mailed out.

That's not a bad living - getting free loans from chumps so you can collect the interest on that money.

 

Roman republic vs. X9100
give a reasonable guess vs. knowledge

Back to topic please! If I want to know more about Roman replubic I would have joined a different "forum"

 

Reread the post - because they're either foolish, lazy, or like taking money from gullible fools so that they can get interest-free loans from easy marks that they then invest in short-term investments and get to keep the earnings once they finally refund your money in two or three months' time.

If someone offers something Clevo says won't work, don't you think that the presumption should be that that person is trying to steal from you unless they can come up with a good, detailed, technologically justified explanation for why they're right and Clevo is wrong? There are a few Clevo resellers who seem capable of this, but not many - why don't you go ask this company why they think they can do what Clevo says they cannot, rather than wasting time here trying to get everyone else to explain to you why Clevo is suppressing a big great truth that these enterprising little dissidents have disclosed to the public?

 

If a kid wants a candy, even if the candy is dangerous to his teeth, the fine print will only mention that at the bottom in small letters.
As long as there is a demand, there will be people naive enough to buy anything.
Good point Shyster.

 

5791 did support overclocking, 5791 did support the 8800m gtx. Sager/clevo just "chose" not to release a bios that did support these devices at the time and Zfactor already proved this.
I've owned a t9300 and a x9000 system, one did not heat up more than the other, which several people have reported. It's great you guys wanna play it safe and say the np8660 wont support a x9100, but the real truth is it will support the cpu, but it will not be overclockable. Also to flat out say there wont be an update later on, I have a hard time buying that also,sager/clevo seems to be all about doing updates to their models, considering their top two laptops range from 3-4 updates, I see no reason why they wouldn't continue that trend.

 

I think it´s naive to accept things with no critical thinking. As technican/consumer i am just curious why they use a X9100. If Shyster theory is right, i wouldn´t invest ~ 2300 USD for such a company. But there is no proof yet. So it´s wrong to judge a company as boodler or ppl as naive! Next week i am able to ask those 2 well known companies and post the results here.

"16,668 Euro for doing nothing more over the course of two months than (a) promising to deliver what he cannot, and (b) explaining to you why administrative procedures cause it to take so long for your refund claim to be processed and your refund to be mailed out."

Well that´s sounds like a(nother) bad pre-order story *cough*

best regards

 

I'm afraid that what you don't quite seem to grasp is that this is precisely what I mean. The onus of proof (or disproof, as you wish) is on those wishing to go beyond Clevo's publicly stated limits, not on those who - for whatever reason, timidity, caution, warranty, or ignorance - chose to stay within those publicly stated limits - and that is precisely what, e.g., Zfactor, was able to do.

Also, I've been meaning to ask - what's the point of paying a premium for a CPU that is intended to be overclocked (hence the premium) when you won't be able to take advantage of precisely that characteristic for which you paid the premium? To my thinking, anyone offering such a system is being duplicitous unless they've clearly stated that the primary characteristic that differentiates the premium processor, overclockability, will nonetheless not be useable on the system being offered.

It's a little bit like offering, I don't know, say 1666MHz RAM on a system that, because of its chipset, will always force that RAM to downclock to, say, 800MHz (no, I don't have a specific set of numbers in mind, those are just hypothetical to illustrate a point - the point itself, however, does exist with certain systems). In that case, are will all going to jump on the ODM for refusing to state that the system will support 1666MHz RAM, or are we instead going to criticize the seller for trying to sell us a bill of goods - hardware priced at a premium for a characteristic that we'll never be able to take advantage of?

 

Shyster, theres a problem with your comparison to higher clocked memory though, the extreme cpu's do not downclock to say a t9600 and can be compared equally. To break it down even further, lets take a look at the pricing.

Lets compare 3 processors and their pricing. A t9400 2.53 ghz, t9600 2.8 ghz and a x9100 3.06-3.53 ghz. Now a price breakdown based on newegg and amazon, T9400 $349.99 T9600 $569.99 X9100 $533.77 So it jumps up 220$ to upgrade to a T9600 from a t9400, but you can find a x9100 for the same price as a t9600 or less. Which brings me to my next point and that is, only the actual laptop sellers seem to charge this premium price. Sure you might end up with ES, but the way people choose to conform to Sager/clevo's warranty standards can easily be manipulated. Considering your a lawyer I'm surprised you don't actually support people trying to push these boundaries. People who have upgraded their gateway laptops ranging from a t7500 all the way up to a x9000. The thing is, they keep their t5550 cpu's to make sure they can get a warranty repair when they ship in their laptops.
There is always a risk when you open up the internal components of your computer and as long as people understand that I see no reason to deny them or ridicule them for wanting to upgrade their systems to a cpu that is completely functional in their system.
Alienware knew that and sure thats they don't allow overclocking in their x9000 laptops, but they do at least allow people to buy a faster cpu.

 

Correction:
The NP5792 was released specifically to support the 8800M GTX

Sager said at the time that the NP5791 WOULD support the 8800M GTX, so long as you didn't mind losing the S3 standby functionality.

Sager deliberately chose to lock out overclocking functionality in the NP5792 BIOS for the safety of the notebook. The NP5793 featured slight modifications to the airspace and not-so-slight modifications to the heat-pipe so that overclockers could actually overclock.

Keep in mind: Sager never said that you couldn't use an X9000 in the NP5790, 91, or 92. All they said was that they would not sell the processor because, since it was dangerous to overclock it, there was no point in offering a processor with unlocked core multipliers.

In the case of the NP8660, Sager has said that the 44W processor simply doesn't work within the thermal budget...if any application put the processor under full load, it could create a heat crisis within the notebook.

I'm not saying Clevo won't issue an update at some point in the future to fit a 44W processor into the thermal budget, but they would have to not only upgrade the thermal budget enough to fit in a 44W processor, they'd also have to upgrade the budget enough to actually support overclocking before Sager would offer the X9100.

When the thermal budget can't even support the non-overclocked X9100, though, like Shyster says, the burden of proof is on a customer or a distributor who doesn't care that their experiment is destroying Clevo's backing of their warranty.

Granted, not everyone cares about warranty coverage, but there are many who do.

 

You are correct, I was incorrect in stating zfactor had a 5792, he had a 5791 and had no issues and the resellers chose not to make a single comment about his system.
The upgrade to the 5792 was nothing more than a extra row of metal added to the cpu heatsink and a lift to the plastics on the back. No reason they can't do the same thing on the np8660.
My last post on this subject, because no matter what you people say, someone is still going to push the issue of putting a x9100 in their laptop and will do it regardless of what you say.

 

And that's their right, certainly, as long as they are willing to accept the risks. If Clevo won't accept the risk, most resellers won't accept the risk, either, and we will generally advise customers not to take the risk. That's just good business. It would be very irresponsible for us to do otherwise.

It's much better to err on the side of caution so that the only folks who even try it to begin with are the ones who already have a devil-may-care attitude about their warranties.

 

Guys just Wait PCMW is going to be the first one to do because they have their own high tech facility with super techs! D what they told me in there CS story when i placed my order back in May )

 

I recently checked the PC Microworks website, and I couldn't help but notice that some of the new models that came out were missing. Does anyone have a link? I can't find the Sager NP7680 on their website.

 

because they are not sager retailer, they are eurocom's.

 

x9100 in my Edge and it's kicking butt and apparently cool too

 

How cool, if I may ask? Try an Orthos test for 30 mins and monitor the temps with HWMonitor and print screen, with Orthos in the same window..
Pls

 

I'm definitely upgrading to an x9100, when my finances allow it.

 

Does this still hold true? From the looks of it, the QX9300 sounds like a beast... I'd be pretty surprised if it was 35W

 

PC Microworks told me that they are doing modifications to the Edge (M860TU) motherboard because of the QX9300 power requirements. They said the "modifications" are things like puting in new resistors.

Does anybody know whether this is really necessary or is it sufficient to merely make sure there is enough cooling? In other words, if I stick a QX9300 into an M860TU I bought from RJ tech a month ago, will it just work? (Provided there is sufficient cooling, that is.) Has anybody here done this?

Did Eurocom do similar modifications to the M860TU motherboard before they put in the QX9300?

thanks.

 

Did you read the first post in this thread?

The bottom line is the Clevo has made it clear that they will not warrant any vendor or end user that uses these processors in the Clevo M860TU.

Further, modifying the motherboard will not increase the thermal budget. If you use components that exceed the thermal budget you will do so with a high risk of failure down the road, and you will not have the manufacturer's warranty to cure any failures.

 

Sure, I read much of this thread and understand that I won't have the warranty if I put the QX9300 into the M860TU.

What I was really asking is this. Aside from the warranty and the thermal budget, does the QX9300 work with the M860TU?

Can somebody please confirm that the socket matches, the voltage is correct, the default BIOS will recognize the processor, etc.? Earlier posts have suggested that the warranty and thermal budget are really the only issues, but I got the impression after talking to PCMW that it is more than that.

thanks.

 

PCMW will tell you more than what actually goes on to impress you. Just like any business. But what's important is that they deliver! You will get your quad core in there, and they will cover you. Clevo might not, but they will be obligated to.

 

I personally don't think that the quad cores will work in the current version of the M860TU as there are a few minor differences between them and the duals. They have been tested in the M570TU and they do not even try to post therefore looking like it's a hardware issue not a bios issue. I would expect it to be the same for the M860TU. I would love to be wrong, but that's my prognosis.

 

So has anybody actually tried putting the qx9300 into an unmodified M860TU?

 

Not as far as I know, Mark@killernotebooks has an X9100 working well in one, but has not yet tried the quads (though I believe he intends to)

 

I think you should get an NP9262/D901C.

 

Mark is not alone either the x9100 is a an AWESOME processor.. and is such a sweet combination in the M860TU..
wait! I still can't stop

 

Right... excuse my possible ignorance, but I really don't want to go through 118 pages to find the answer to this:

If I wish to void my warranty by trying to put in a 9800m GTX into the M860TU, how would I get the actual video card? I bought from Xotic PC, so would they sell the card as well?

Also, would the board natively support the card? Or is it incompatible?

 

I'd call Xotic about that, just make sure the card can actually fit.

God speed. I'm voiding my warranty as soon as I get my X9100 monies together. *salute*

 

<salutes>

Indeed, I'll probably do both upgrades somewhere down the line, but video card comes first since I have a 2.53Ghz Monteniva already.. which seems like enough.

Any ideas on cost for a 9800m GTX? I've seen some pretty obscene price configs out there, so I wouldn't be surprised if the standalone card is around $500

 

I made some calls; was told that it's $800 for the gtx kit.

 

ouch.... that's a pretty **** hefty price....

I don't think its worth it atm considering the performance increase.

I suppose I could sell my 9800m GT to someone for $300 ;D

 

just to let you know...we tried a quad on a 7811 and it did not work. the heat sink is not the correct size and the chip didn't power on. even with an updated bios.

and as for x9100 pricing...those 500 dollar x9100 are es chips and not oem. oem is still $853.00 bucks and up

 

So I take it no progress has been made with the X9100 or the other Extreme Edition processors.

I don't see why not, they don't run much hotter than the T9400's.

 

Progress? PCMW is already shipping the M860TU equipped with X9100s. EdgeEnthusiast is the only NBR member who has one, and he has nothing but good things to say about it. Regardless, Clevo isn't going to sign off on it. The consumer's only choice is to go through PCMW, or to attempt a do-it-yourself installation.

 

@Kevin,

Maybe I'm mistaken but there is at least one other company that does it too. KillerNotebooks.

Trance

 

No mistake there.

 

Well found another one that does it too in Europe (X9100 CPU):

http://www.notebookguru.de/product_...-31&xploidID=86tv3n8hovernqmabbpar2clgan5uu4p

This one for about a month or so. So it is not that PCMW has the edge on this one, but definitly it is a edgy company. Options, options, the more the better

This one even a maxed up M570TU (X9100+9800MGTX) at a very decent price IMHO ... for Europeans I mean:

http://www.notebookguru.de/product_...9800m-gtx-p-98&cName=1720-zoll-notebooks-c-32

Trance

 

At 3.5 Ghz? nice...quite the speed there.

 

Now that you mentioned it is indeed funny. It must be a typo.

Trance

 

I dunno.It`s an extreme CPU , so it might go that far , since the X9000 goes to 3.4 easily...

 

no typo (x9100)..and the x9000 will run 3.5 in the right machine. has an unlocked multiplier up to 31x......

 

es chip? What is that exactly, and what's the difference between that and an OEM version?

 

engineering sample
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering_sample_(CPU)

 

Ehh... sounds iffy to me.

Quick google search also states they're illegal to distribute and sell.

 

i had one...didn't have a problem with it at all. bought it off ebay

 

hey any info on the Temps of the Q9600 core2mobile quad.. thats coming out?

really want a quad core in my m860tu one day..

 

I just wish they weren't so bloody expensive to buy... same with the 9800m GTX.

It's kind of insane to pay that much for the performance gain.

If I see prices of around $300-$400 for either the 9800m GTX, or the x9100, I'll be all over it.