X7200 Pre-sale price is here!

They can't get any bigger because monster notebooks are not everyone's thing.

 

Yeah i know, someday, Hey one can only dream right?! Well the top manufacters did try once, hence the dragon and the 2010 lol.

 

They may catch on again the day DTR notebooks weigh like your average 15 inchers (possible with paper thin displays and nanosized components) -

Of course, they may still not be for (hard core) gamers/powerusers, though.

EDIT: Man, early Sat morning-- I think you meant "bigger" as in the size of the company.

 

I find it interesting that X7200 is still "available" only on the website of Eurocom. I can´t find anything about it on Clevo´s or Sager´s website yet.

 

I suspect they have problem cooling down the SLI 480M. LMAO.

 

It will come in due time...

 

Nice things come to those who wait... And speaking of nice things, the nicest thing about GTX480M most people forget while complaining about TDP and high prices is the great scalability in SLI, if we should believe the reviews about the desktop cards. If I remember correctly, there was a word (or two) about ~80-90% performance gain with 2-way SLI.

The announced price on Eurocom´s website is about 1k $ for the SLI config, that means it will probably drop to 900$ or so. While the difference to Crossfire is still about 600 bucks, CF doesn´t scale even nearly as well as SLI. So, in a way, with the SLI one gets real performance for the buck. And while it is truly overpriced (IMO), one cannot fill the performance gap between the current available mobile CF and a 2-way SLI of GTX480M! IMHO this is where nVidia has clear advantage over ATI as of now. Not to mention the better driver and GPGPU support in terms of CUDA (including APIs).

I just can´t wait for a Hexacore and overclocked GTX480M SLI The only things that really bother me are the glossy screen and the 16:9 aspect ratio. Ok, for a 17'' screen I may be able to overcome the latter, but the glossy screen is so nasty... It reminds me somehow of the movie "Grease"... Now, I wonder whether it might be possible to replace it with one of the upcoming LG LED-IPS screens (also 16:9 ratio)...

 

Besides the difficulty in actually reading that post there's really no evidence at least in the mobile platform that Nvidia scales better in x2 cards. In fact with the 9800-285 GTX (cards we have known statistics in) they scaled worse then their ATI counterparts in reference to stutter and latency spiking. If you're reffering to actual game performance Nvidia in SLI had more FPS lows in regards to FPS stability vs the 4870/5870's, an area which we also have proof in.

If you have evidence of this Nvidia "scaling superiority" I wouldnt mind seeing it.

 

@ Marin,
I'm not too sure about the source of your statement. We've seen both 280M/285M in SLI vs MR4870 in CF and, honestly, I didn't see any huge advantages single vs single and SLI vs CF in games. There was a nice review on AW forum (by Lewdvig) - an extensive gaming benchmarks summary done on the same system, first with 280M SLI, then with 4870CF. IIRC, 4870's performed even slightly better. At the same time I did a few tests (limited number of games) on my R1 (280M SLI vs 4870 CF) and in my case 4870's were significantly better (probably due to the drivers as I only tried 4-5, while Lewdvig experimented more. Though I found it frustrating that for every second game had to install different Nvidia drivers, while CF worked like a charm from the first try ).
Also, FYI SLI had/has latency issues, ruining the whole gaming experience.
In addition, if you look at the tests done by HellCry (D900F +5870) vs the tests posted on Notebookcheck (same system D900F but with a 480M), you'll see that so far 5870 only slightly behind in tessellation (by itself not a mature feature with only a couple games supporting it heavily), but is better or equal in synthetics and 9x 10x games, plus has lower temps and is far less power hungry.
Another note FYI, a single 5870 is ~350$ while a 480M is about 900$ (check @RJtech, their pricing is very accurate AFAIK).
IMO, x7200 will only be interesting with 5870's and maybe the upcoming 6870's in CF. Otherwise, I'm not interested...till more tests prove otherwise

@ Nobodyshero,
Lol, you beat me to it.

 

He meant the new fermi architecture that scales well in SLI as seen from desktop fermi cards, not the old G92.

 

This isnt a fermi card....its like half of one, IMO more like 1/4th of a "Fermi" card. It would be nothing short of a mistake to infer the scaling performance of this card to its real Fermi desktop counterpart.

@Aikimox, LOL. I've been doing that alot to you recently, although you posted a much more in depth analysis then I, so hats off.

 

It is a fermi card, architecture wise. Fermi != 480 GTX itself, Fermi is an architecture.

 

One of the key features of the 4xx generation nVidia cards was advertised to be their much better scalability in multi-gpu platforms (compared to nVidia´s earlier products and presumably ATI´s current cards). I managed to dig out some benchmarks about the "scalability" of desktop 480GTX -> techPowerUp :: ZOTAC GeForce GTX 480 SLI Review :: Page 3 / 31.

I think it is a reasonable assumption that a desktop 465 would behave similarly. Since GTX480M appears to be just downclocked 465, I don´t see why it shouldn´t scale up just as nicely (well, maybe with slight reduction due to the lowered clocks, but nothing significant). Now, knowing the performance of a single GTX480M, say about 16k 3DMark06 (I know, it is not the most suitable benchmarking for all these new cards, this is just to illustrate things), then one could certainly expect an estimated score of 29~30k 3DMark06 points. The CF benchmarks from the AW forum don´t come even close to that! Of course, the final results are to be seen, yet I think there are pretty straight-forwards reasons to expect ~80% performance gain with SLI GTX480M.

@Aikimox: As the other guys pointed out, I was referring only to the 4xx generation ('Fermi'). As for the price tags, I just configured one X7200 from the Eurocom´s site. They already have prices available for the different components. It is of course another question if these price tags are correct or just have an advertising purpose!

Cheers,

Marin

 

Also, hellfire's vantage being same as 480M is only after OC, while the 480M tested was on stocks, we don't yet have a 480M on our hands yet to know how well could 480M OC.

 

@marin, you're assuming power and voltage limitations notorious in the laptop world wont cripple the scaling performance. I have serious doubts of even a 400w PSU being able to scale the 480's to its real potential.

@fzfh the notebookcheck reviews where the 5870 is stock (although I thought Hellcry was stock too??) still has it about the same in vantage (GPU), and yes we are all waiting to see how well it overclocks.

Edit; defer to Aikimox on the second point...

 

First of all, HellCry's test was at stock clocks (700/1000).

Second, Notebookcheck's test was with physx ON.

Third, when talking about scalability of Fermi SLI we should take into consideration the different platform, MXM, 8x instead of 16x, etc. Even if theoretically it can scale better, I mind paying extra 600$ per card just for theories and not fully fledged features.

 

Well, yes, I am assuming this since X7200 is basically a desktop. It uses desktop mobo with desktop cpu. So the least one could (should!) expect from X7200 is to be able to supply sufficient power to the gpu, though I agree this may turn out difficult with the SLI configuration. As already said, the final results are to be seen, so basically most of what I said was plain speculation, though not an unreasonable one.

Provided the Eurocom´s prices are corrent, it seems you won´t have to. You will have to pay 600$ in total for both cards

 

That's true, after seeing that 318W peak with a single 480M and non-extreme CPU ...

 

Thats half the fun IMHO is all the speculation that leads up to someone actually getting said product...

Power requirements may go through the roof though when trying to overclock these cards(especially 2 of them) leading to mass instability or maybe not ...

Yep its insane, then take 2 of those cards and toss in a 980 into the mix lol...

 

I mean buying the cards separately, not as part of a package.
Besides, Eurocom's prices are above average, you can get the same system for ~1000$ less in USA, from a respectable reseller. Read what people here say about Eurocom and their ways.

 

Lol, 318W peek for a single GTX480 for real? So, you are basically saying that each GTX480M in a SLI config will most likely be crippled even more than it is in a single-gpu config?

 

For some reason all the companies for x7200 pre-order are only offering 300w PSU's with the x7200 model. That HAS to be for just one 480 though??

Also marin on your other point go here http://web.eurocom.com/ec/ecu_model_config1(1,214,0) two cards cost $1445 USD

 

Look at the Notebookcheck's review if you don't trust my words. All I'm saying is it will take some sort of dark magic to make 480M SLI + i7-980X stable in games/ tests, not even daring to think about OC'ing.

 

Well, then the price difference between SLI and CF will be even smaller in the end of the day

 

Yes clearly someone at Clevo sold there soul to make this work ...

You can honestly see why Mandrake is not even believing there will be a 480m SLI machine at all when you start doing the real math... Crazy stuff indeed..

It would have to require something north of 450-500 watt PSU to get this all working ... Hopefully that thing has a set of wheels on it ...

You have to give Clevo major props though if they manage to get it working and then add in all the extra stuff like USB 3.0 120hz screens etc(its not like this stuff does not need extra power as well)....

 

Your link doesn´t work. But mine does -> http://web.eurocom.com/EC/ec_model_config1(1,214,0) -> SLI GTX480M is just 977$ (USD) or 768€. Dunno where you saw $1445 USD.

 

At this point I'll not get SLI even if it costs less, lol. Not until I see some real proof that there are no overheating/stuttering/latency/power related issues. Until then, I'm an observer

 

Very observative, I like it

 

They have done that in the past ... They`re base price is insane so while it looks like they are selling the cards cheaper they are whacking you hardcore right out of the gate even stock...

$3200.00 US for a basic machine with a 5870m, $200 CPU and a 320gb HD... What a deal lol...

 

Well, I am not pushing you And I agree, engineering a GTX480 SLI into a laptop is insane... As for overclocking it, it was a joke..., I think...

 

no, YOUR link doesnt work, MINE does!!! I kid.

I'm not sure, I started at the base config, as in nothing is added *except* for the GPU cards. This makes Eurocoms configurator all the more confusing.

Look at that, 3 pages in 5 minutes. We should have an official NBR speculation team with its own sig and all.

 

Yes, totally.
In the end Eurocom will end up selling those 480M's on Ebay

 

@nobodyshero: Lol, ok. They may well have some filter for different regions (it´s Eurocom!) If you want, I would take a screenshot and upload it here?

 

just wanna ask coz im not that expert but.. is it a big difference that ati 5870 is 1GB and 480m is 2GB? coz im reading and reading but i see nobody mentioning it. just asking.

 

If it´s for cheap, then I am most definitely buying them, and I mean all of them

 

I'll pass Marin, I believe you. I think where the misunderstanding occurs is that where the config is zero'd as in no existing specs for some reason it comes up as $1445 with only the GPU's added. When it is preconfigurated it works out differently.

Anyway I digress, anything Eurocom turns to utter confusion...

 

2GB - 1GB = 1 GB This is a whole second card. And as it turns out, GTX480M draws power for two, lol. Jokes aside, the performance impact is to be seen since there aren´t really any substantial benchmarks yet. Other than that, I guess you will be able to play SC2 at uber-textures (since for ultra it needs only 1GB)...

 

At 1920x1080 no not really... At my desktop rez it can help when adding AA into the mix though at 2560x1600. i have not found much need for AA but there are people who have to have it ... I would not mind some more VRAM on my ATI cards but honestly its not needed right now and i dont see the 480m ever utilizing 2gbs period...

The Desktop 480GTX has around 1500megs to give you an idea ...

 

Even if it only had 1GB the fact that it is a 256bit card using GDDR5 as opposed to the 128bit ATI HD 5870 will provide more bandwidth, and therefore theorhetically better performance.

However only time will tell the truth. It is always interesting to see the speculation though.

 

I just configured one for a tad under $6,000 US, and I still didn't get all I wanted???

EUROCOM Panther 2.0; 17.3-inch FullHD 1920-by-1080 pixels; LED panel with Glossy Glare Surface
Built-in Web Camera 3.0 Megapixels WebCam; Built-in
Biometric Fingerprint Device Integrated Fingerprint Reader for Secure Data Access and Easy Management of Passwords
VGA Technology 2x 2GB GDDR5 nVidia GeForce GTX 480M Fermi; SLI; DX11; MXM 3.0b; 40nm; 100W per card; ETA: August 2010
Graphics eXpansion Modules for Surround Design None - Choose from the options below
Upgradeable Processor with Choice of Thermal Compound (Standard, Artic 5, Diamond 24 or Liquid Ultra 3.33 GHz i7-980X Intel Core i7 Gulftown Extreme; 6-cores; 8MB L3; 6.4GT/s; LGA1366; 32nm; 130W
Memory Configuration 6GB; 3x 2GB; DDR3-1600; PC-12800; CL7; Kingston HyperX KHX1600C7S3K2 ; 204-pin - 3 SODIMMs
Turbo Memory or 3G HSDPA Module None; Choose from the options below
1st Hard Drive. Choose Regular or Solid State Drive: 160GB MLC SSD; Intel X25-M Gen2 34nm; SATA-300; 2.5inch; 9.5mm; SSDSA2MH160G2C1
2nd Hard Drive Choose your 2nd Hard Drive from the options below...
3rd Hard Drive Choose your 3rd Hard Drive from the options below:
4th Hard Drive 4th HDD co-shared with Optical Drive; no internal ODD available if 4th HDD selected; external ODD available
Extra Hard Drive Bracket(s) None - Choose from options below
Hard Drive(s) Setup i.e. Multiple Partitions, RAID 0/1/5/10 None - Choose from the options below
Choose Your Keyboard (Language) English US International Keyboard; 79-M980NU0K-101
Operating System(s) None - Choose from the options below for Pre-install or install your own
Optical Drive 4x Blu Ray READER & 8x DVD Burner; Tray Load; SATA; Hitachi-LG CT10N; w/software
Wireless LAN 802.11a/b/g/n Intel WiFi Link 6300; up to 450Mbps; WLAN PCIe; Half-Size Mini Card
Internal TV Tuner None - Choose from the options below
Bluetooth for Wireless Devices None - Choose from the options below
ExpressCard Adapters - Smart Card Reader, eSATA, Firewire, Serial, HSDPA, 2nd LAN, etc None - Choose from the options below
Standard AC Adapter 300W AC Adapter; Auto-switching 100-240V; 50-60Hz; DC output 20V, 15A

 

Ok, so why would they do this? I mean it´s not like 480M with 'only' 1.5 GB would be too cold...

 

But the 130W drain of the i7 processors + the 480m having a 100W drain = 230W max alone... If SLI 480ms were used, then only the 300W they have included should be needed; having a total drain of 330W or so. With that kind of power in SLI, I doubt any game would seriously push to the 330W limit and hold it there. Even the 280m cards in SLI don't hiccup with default clocks in crysis Warhead enthusiast, according to some people here. 480m SLI would probably laugh at it.

 

To be honest with you for nothing more then marketing... It sounds good on paper and when people see 2gbs of Vram they go WHOA!! that must be amazing and all the while having 0 clue of what is actually going on ....

There are plenty of benchmarks on the ATI 5870 desktop cards with 1gb of VRAM vs 2gb (i have the 1gb versions)..

You can draw some conclusions from there ...

You must have missed this post where apparently its already been tested how much power the machine is pulling with a single card and a rather not highend i7 CPU... You have to take everything into account on the machine just not the 3 prime components... RAM HDDs Screen USB ports etc etc...

 

@ marin
im about to reply coz it kinda got me confused because i know i saw that 480m is 2gb but i saw you typed joke. hehehe..

i guess ill just wait for the benchmarks first..
before selling my M17X later..
and buying the x7200..

i wanna make sure that i get the better card set..
ATI 5870 in CFX or NVidia 480m in SLi

there's no BEST card.. a better one will always come along..

back to watch mode.. good that this thread is up and running again..

 

I saw that post, but they're selling GTX 480m cards with the D900F, and that only has a 220W PSU. Sager even slightly altered their rebranded name; it's now the NP9285 instead of the NP9280 like in my sig. The PSU is still 220W... I know sager and Clevo aren't *that* stupid to advertise such a thing if it will not work properly.

 

Are you certain there is no new power supply or just basing that on what resellers have for sale on there config pages ? Some of that stuff does not get updated when they add new product ... Honestly i have not dug that deep to see if there is a new PSU or not...


Now as for Clevo selling underrated PSUs for there machines i can tell you the 920xm and a 5870m/285m was more then enough to shut off that measly 120w PSU that comes with the 8760 because i had one and i bought an aftermarket 160w PSU ... So yes they have/can and will do things like that ...

I will totally agree with you though that chances are slim of you maxxing out a CPU and GPU at the same time but it can happen and its better to plan ahead with something bigger then not have it when you need it....

 

This is one of the reasons why I think nvidia is focusing on the GPGPU stuffs. The 2GB VRAM helps with GPGPU stuffs. And looking back at the G80/92 based cards, you see the CUDA cores i.e. the shader processor has higher frequency than the memory. It's been reversed in 480M. They learn from experience that FLOPS isn't all in GPGPU stuffs. Most programs benefit more from faster memory, lower access latencies, caches etc on the graphics card.

I seriously think there's more to it than marketing.

 

They're not stupid, but that doesn't mean the system won't throttle/flicker/crash randomly.

 

I deleted my comment after re reading your post and its honestly hard to say how the 2gbs of VRAM will affect overall performance but honestly i think its more fluff then anything else but we can agree to disagree i guess ..

If they can figure out a way to make VRAM give more overall performance to a slower card then that is fantastic...

 

XoticPC and Clevo still both state the D900F will ship with a 220W PSU no matter what. That being said, overvolting my 280m to 1.03v, running with a 11% OC while having a ton of Firefox tabs open, Windows Live messenger, my antivirus doing a virus scan, bitcomet downloading torrents, steam, Xfire, HWmonitor and Star Wars Force Unleashed minimized (I actually forgot it was running... I didn't intentionally do this) then starting GTA IV and playing for like 3 hours straight didn't make my computer complain. And my temps weren't so bad either, didn't crack 86 deg (considering I had an ambient temp of 28 deg C and the overvolt, I think that's great). If *that* isn't a power hungry lineup right there, then the 480m must be out of this world.