Clevo Overclocker's Lounge

They're just like the Redmond Nazis. We can have anything we want as long as it is what they want us to have (W10). They need censorship only because there are not enough stupid Kool-Aid drinkers to advance their agenda without the ability to stifle speech and manipulate public opinion through force. Exactly the same strong-arm approach Micro$loth is taking with W10. Our friends in Europe have been putting up with that corrupt style of "leadership" for way too long. That kind of government has no place here, and sleeping with Micro$oft is an important part of their succession by deception strategy. They can't advance the agenda using legal means, so they'll sneak it through the EULA and call it "telemetry" LOL. Cortana, the government-backed digi-slut!

 

Definitely agree, yet liberals that railed against privacy abrogation in the early 2000s now are promoting censorship. Just like sheep are pushing for Windows 10 "convenience" with cortana, etc. That used to rail against m$ spying and requiring allowing them to use super cookies or other snooping (like telemetry)...

Edit: it's a sad state of affairs...

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About all of those things...

1. What advantage of Cortana? Like, does it do anything that would be supposed to bring in an advantage? I kill the bug at install step, nowadays it's getting harder to kill cortana, but nothing is impossible with a bit of tinkering

2. RLY? Me means, me likes privacy for people, a skynet wouldn't be too good for anyone.

But then again, besides very specific statistics, and advertising, they are going to do like what? Search certain keywords?

Me not knows much bout muric since me European from Romania, but man it looks rough with all the spying.

Me disables telemtry, me uses a firewall to purge everything, but same me delivers the same data to google anyways, guess it's impossible to avoid someone collecting the data.

Curious if there is any deep process step that we all should do to check up on telemetry disabling and such, like really deep system optimization.

 

holy crap, thats 1.29V for 5ghz NOT DELIDDED! what a monster chip, haha! at that voltage i can barely get 4.6 Ghz stable

edit: oh looksie looksie, price went down to 800€

 

With Kaby around the corner, so long as it does win 7 & 8.1 on z170 chipset, it will be worth less depending on Kaby binning. But, that is cinebench voltage, not prime 95 or realbench, but that means 5.0 with [email protected] or less, which is an amazing chip!

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cinebench is totally sufficient for my usage scenarios, ive found that 10 consecutive runs of CB15 get me more stability than OCCT but im suspecting that cinebench stable in this case means just one complete run

 

So far. None. But some can be related to hw monitoring...So I'm told.

Binned good quality chips don't really come too cheap. Although it remains to be seen where that chip falls without some other samples to compare with.

Thanks sir.

 

It does. Also, the voltage is likely changed in OS, so that may not even be boot stable. So, I noted what the P95/realbench likely stability would be, which is a range of .08-.14V over the CB volts, just so people know you may need more depending on usage. Now, we've discussed how to stress test previously and the ridiculous nature of leaving performance on the table by having to clock lower to adapt to the heat of P95 small. Not trying to rehash that. Just making a note that other benches or different MBs could cause the need for more voltage than that, while still being under 1.44V for 5.0GHz (for reference, [email protected] was the top 2% of skylake CPUs, which fell to 5% with the latter batches that were binned, using realbench as the stress test with an AIO at silicon lottery).

Also note, not all of those top binned CPUs reacted this well to LN2, so that is the other reason for the price! Some that don't do as well on air can do very well at sub-zero temps and vice versa

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You often find that chips do better at specific temperature ranges compared to others depending on their leakage level.

 

For those that don't want a 7700K, if you want a 6700k that does cinebench @50/[email protected]@320 Euro:
http://forum.hwbot.org/showthread.php?t=164761
Above discussion on voltage for other benches applies. Remember, there is variance in voltage between MB.

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Seems like a good deal.

In other news... a little off topic but relevant to us all either directly or indrectly - a Ryzen review was leaked

 

@Papusan @Mr. Fox - new update to 3Dmark adjusting scores - http://hwbot.org/newsflash/4172_3dm...tsuite&utm_medium=socialhttp://bit.ly/2hxTYnT

Thank you guys for pushing them since June!!!

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Nobody gave credit for it being posted here first: Gradual Degradation of 3DMark Fire Strike Produces Unreliable Results

 

I posted to hwbot Facebook page letting them know you and Papusan deserve notice. I just shared that link also, so let's hope they update their link at hwbot.

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The most important thing is Futuremark fixed it. Had it not been publicly exposed they may have continued ignoring @Papusan as they had been for many months, even though he told them others are noticing the same defect.

 

That guy sure likes to waffle a bit

 

Indeed. I did not get much out of that to be honest. I think he could have told us what little bit there was to tell about it in 2 minutes or less.

 

Yes, not knowing how it compares to others is a problem. If we knew it was decidedly superior than what we will be able to expect from an average 7700K it might be worth it.

Intel 6700K binned @ 4.9GHz Boxed Processor from Silicon Lottery is $399. A binned 6800K hexacore can be had for a few bucks less than the 7700K that guy is asking $475 for. He's probably looking to sell it to some early adopter that is willing to hurry up and spend money without giving the matter enough thought only because it's new.

Sometime new tech has a way of causing a short circuit between the brain and wallet. That goo-goo-gah-gah child-like foolishness, LOL. I'm not from Missouri, but they need to show me first. I'm not going to believe any marketing hype.

 

So silicon lottery dropped the price on the 4.9 ghz one by another hundred. Trying to clear inventory with 7700K around the corner, I guess...

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I would never buy a silicon Lottery 6700k @ 399.99. ($269.99) The last 3 chips I tested all did 4.9 ghz.
I would buy a real binned chip if i needed a 6.3 ghz 6700K to do some 2d/3d benchmarks, but not for a laptop.

But that is just my opinion on it.

 

Lol.. Yeah he seems to enjoy the sound of his own voice

I'd agree. There were also silicon lottery 6700k's selling that were doing an unspectacular 4.7ghz. Hardly worth paying more for.

 

Non lottery chip gets me this.

 

Well they bin for some good ones, does not mean that there are not still a lot of good ones out there

 

I gotta say. What do you think they do with the ones that don't bin so well?

Edit: Although you seem to always pull the short straw when getting cpu's though...

 

They will have all their tiers and then likely sell the rest on an ebay outlet or similar.

 

Yep. for the same amount more than likely.

 

So, let's be clear on binning. Silicon lottery is ran by mods and overclockers at overclock.net. Caseking.de is also connected to certain European overclockers. They bin trays upon trays and categorize, while at the same time searching for the ones for their private stash for competitions. Silicon lottery says they don't cherry pick for themselves. What I believe, they pay the amount they would if sold, but they pick the best or give a heads up to certain people.

Then you have those that overclock and do the same, but sell them in the forums of different sites. This includes the world's current top overclockers. Hwbot's extremeaddict and Alex@ro sell on there all the time. Make sure you trust them or that they have a reputation if you buy from them.

To @Johnksss@iBUYPOWER 's point, some buy silicon lottery binned chips, then cannot reach the rated multiplier at a specific voltage. Some of that is from different motherboards variances which can effect voltage requirements. Some can be firmware. Some can be not setting it up properly for voltage (remember, the people binning may be more experienced than some users, which is also why the elite among us, including and especially johnksss, can sometimes achieve what seems like miracles). Then comes the fact we are more heat constrained in laptops, which extra heat compared to an AIO using either a 240 or 280 for cooling, meaning we may need more voltage because we are running hotter. Technically, what is binned isn't guaranteeing a lower temp or a certain multiplier on air, it guarantees that with an equivalent setup, a chip can do a specific multiplier with a specific voltage. You change the variables, your results will differ. On the larger note on when Johnksss is willing to purchase, that is ln2 and that does require binning and paying the extra for those scores, and money is much better spent when any of us reach that level of play.

But, there is also the timing. Later batches seemed to reach higher multipliers with lower voltage. I've followed a couple binners and noticed as we got later into 2016, the statistics changed quickly. So buying later in the life cycle actually allowed for off the shelf to be more worth it (but that comes with refining yields and fabs used).

But this all comes back to perceived value. I'm here to give information. I believe in behavioral economics, whose primary underpinning is value is set to what a person is willing to pay. If you always somehow seem to get the shaft on the silicon you buy, you will perceive more value in getting something binned with a known value. If you are like Johnksss and are a magic man with settings and know you can make anything work and work well at that, getting a binned cpu outside of competing doesn't make much sense. Then there are those at all levels in between. I'm not here to tell you what to spend money on, but if you see value in it, I want to connect people with what they want. Some just don't know where to look at or what to look for, which I love how this community is able to discuss this to help those newer find their way. Thank you all!

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@ajc9988 I'll have to rep you later for that one.

As to a laptop owner buying from the silicon lottery. If they are not testing them in laptops then those numbers are irrelevant. (Just ask @Phoenix) They do not have the same exact settings as a desktop board.
So that's why my opinion is not to buy one for that purpose. As to desktop boards, that's a whole nother matter. Since that's what they are basing those findings off of. And they will reach said speeds and voltages.

As to Xtreme Addict... He is part of the team (Pure) im on and is well trusted. I haven't had any dealings with Alex@ro yet.

 

I picked up my 6700K off of Alex@ro. As described, although I use higher voltage for my everyday vs. Cinebench because I do some handbrake, etc. He is active in the hwbot marketplace. In fact, except for a different mb (he told me about having to bin M8E and M8I for memory speeds after I purchased an M8E for other reasons), my setup with a TT water 3.0U is what he had until he got a custom loop. So I'll put my name out there that I got what I paid for (although these sells from them cleaning out their closet makes my deal not look as good now, but their preparing for 7700K)!

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Not knocking Mr Ro at all. And not knocking SL either, but again. We are on laptops so the mechanics are slightly different here. If they said this chip was tested at 5.1 ghz benchtable in a P870DM3. Then I would be all over it. Why? Because I would know first hand what to expect. So no surprises. As long as they said it was static voltage not that adaptive. Because adaptive is all over the place.

 

It's almost a place between air and water cooling in desktops with assisted notebook cooling.

 

That is based on the user.

Edit: You guys can't keep using the same arguments they use to promote it. It's not the same here.

 

I definitely hear you there. Come to think of it, I might just reach out to some people that bin for SL, etc., and see if they'd be willing to bin for Clevo laptops. They may have never thought of it or heard of Clevo. Or they may just laugh their ass off at me and so no ****ing way. Either way, never hurts to ask...


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Or they can have us bin them for them.

 

Now that is a very, VERY good point!!!

Edit: I'll also bring up HIDEvolution currently purchases from them, which will be value added to a distributor/regular purchaser...

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The only way they haven't heard about Clevo based laptops is.....Drum roll................................

Their laptops are all BGA! So it's bought off the shelf.

 

I thought about that after I wrote the added part about HID...

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That's actually a good point right there, but....They could just as well bin their own chips.

Edit. They would only need a basic starting point and then over time that point would drop lower.

 

I do have other points, such as certain members here having the equipment and experience with Clevo hardware that you cannot find anywhere else. Experience working with Prema firmware, including having access and testing said firmware before official release to partner shops. Etc...

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Very true.

 

"Try to beat @Johnksss@iBUYPOWER's benchmarks in your own Clevo and you'll understand why you should work with us"

Best selling point?

 

I did not gain anything with the one I have, but then again, I never expected to.

 

You are a better man than I sir!
Because I sure as heck would have expected to gain. That would have been my sole reason for buying.

 

I did plan on some name dropping and pointing to some scores... Every negotiation has to be going somewhere!

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Well, I got it right, for a price I could not refuse. Otherwise, I never would have bought it for normal SL prices. I have not seen an example yet of a SL 6700K in a laptop that performed better than the two I had before that were not binned by SL. I didn't expect anything based on what I had already seen from prior examples. And, because it appears we are limited with these laptop motherboards and cannot fully exploit a properly binned SL CPU.

 

Although, I think there is some merit to the idea to avoid getting a poorly binned sample. If you buy a barebones without a CPU and live close to a place like Fry's or Micro-Center that has a liberal return policy you can take it back and get another one. And, keep doing it over and over again until you find a good one that you want to keep. You're only out the gasoline money and time. Can't do that with a CPU you get in a Clevo, or a mail order CPU from a place like NewEgg. So, it's not a bad idea to go with SL CPU per se. It's just not realistic to expect it to work the same as it would in a high end desktop board with better cooling and more robust construction, along with more BIOS controls, compared to what you can expect in a laptop. What we have is the most impressive laptop money can buy, but it's not the equivalent of a high end desktop motherboard.

 

Yes, I will agree with this. My partner at GLJ's 6700K in his Tornado F5 apparently uses 1.25v at stock speeds... with a -150mV undervolt applied. Granted, that's rather rare to see, but guaranteed CPU performance is something people will pay for.

 

Define stock

 

Stock speeds; 4GHz/4.2GHz 1-core boost. With a -150mV undervolt applied at those speeds, he still uses 1.25v or so in stress tests.

 

Sounds like it might be the BIOS isn't optimal. How is he setting the voltage? Maybe what he is using isn't quite right, especially trying to use adaptive voltage. Has he tried using static voltage for less than 1.25V yet?