Clevo Overclocker's Lounge

I managed to get an 850 Pro with help from a friend, so I can make that my OS drive. I'm going to have very little storage for a while though haha. A 256GB 850 Pro and a 512GB Crucial M4 are what I'm going to be rolling with for a few weeks.

 

Nice!

Only them important games....only the important.

 

I rock only MLC drives because I have a lot of write / read and do need sensitive data to be healthy.

This being said, I would replace all my drives with SSDs even TLC just for the bump in speed.

 

Haha I have so much backups to transfer I don't think I'll have much space for games. Maybe just two or three until I get a second drive. Or maybe I can commandeer my sister's passport drive for a time. I'm soon set for a primary machine but I need to get a smaller backup somewhere.

 

Indeed. I too have always opted for Samsung MLC drive and still do, hence the PRO series that I have currently, but now with the data integrity of Samsung's proprietary stacked NAND and Polaris controller on their EVO (TLC) line that walks circles around other manufacturers with even their MLC line, I've opened my doors to the new 960 EVO line as I'd take Samsung TLC over any other brands MLC in a flash.

For reference, I've been using microSD's for a long long time in my digital cameras and it is no coincidence that while all other brands have kicked the bucket on me such as SanDisk etc... I have not had one Samsung microSD card fail on me in the past 10+ years of shooting; all the while 100% of all my off brands, including SanDisk have ALL failed.

Speaking from experience, I've stayed with what has been tested and proven. The new 960 EVO line is no joke and extremely well priced where anyone in the market (well considering if one could afford a laptop that cost thousands) could afford one.

 

That is good to know!

I have something something Corsair XTI in my laptop at the moment, MLC, but the memory chips are most probably made by Samsung. IT was the single MLC option at that moment available in Romania and in full factor (not M.2)

EDIT::: I also use exclusively Samsung mSD cards

 

The problem is...We used AS SSD, not Crystal Mark 5.1.1. So if you can run that and in Raid 0, that would be great.
For reference this was ran after Laptop has been running for 14 hours. Why? Because I fell asleep and left it running.

The fact that it won't go higher that 3500/3000 is what I have issue with. And they are already past that. It's just not public knowledge. And with everything we get...it's like 3 to 20 years behind what is actually possible.

 

I see. I know we're usually behind in consumer tech, but what I meant was that for it to be worth it for us consumers, the DMI's bandwidth (what NVMe runs through, at least on consumer boards) needs some raising. It's currently at 4GB/s in either direction, so no matter how many NVMe drives we RAID it'll be locked to 4GB/s as a max throughput. I thought Z270 was supposed to raise it, but Meaker told me it's tied to the socket pins rather than a simple chipset change, so I think for consumers we'll need to be on Z470 before this happens (assuming Z370 is Kaby Lake's successor's chipset).

Do the -E platforms run it through QPI for a higher bandwidth? I've not been able to find this bit out yet.

 

I know what your saying and for public record that could be totally correct, but as in reality and the goverment way of doing things....Life is different.

 

In that case, then... meow. I can't talk about what I have no access to

Hopefully though it'd be pretty good when it comes to us plebs then =D

 

True, but the waiting game is a never ending story.

 

Yup, sometimes you just gotta buy!

On that note, I wonder if @moviemarketing ever got another laptop.

 

On that note....When do you get your machine?

 

Likely middle of next week, I think. Shipping times are never perfect to judge though. It would be great if I could get it as early as Wednesday

Sent from my OnePlus 1 using a coconut

 

@iunlock , I use SanDisk Extreme Pro which is the world's fastest SATA 6 SSD. I don't intend to pull the 850 Pro here for a bench fight, which encryption support and On paper it's the fastest, But in realworld cases the SanDisk Extreme Pros are the fastest ones. And They use Toshiba 19nm MLC NAND with Marvell controller & for generations Apple uses their NAND chips. Toshiba's ARM is not strong so is any other corporation they use Phison / SM controllers, Toshiba M.2 Drives you were talking about, Yeah It's the controller that's from Samsung, Their recent performance over this 5-7 year span is really amazing with the lithography fabless technology #1 in the Semiconductor industry & their Memory chips being supreme among every other options.

Toshiba is one of the world's oldest conglomerate that Japan had, they are in a sad state now due to the Nuclear deal that went downspiral & those market scandals, They are even selling off the memory business shares now, Sad to see Sharp being bought by other companies and JDI being not to much significant apart from Apple's business, Sony being lost, really a sad state for Japan. SanDisk is also being gulped by the WD, Samsung managed to achieve all this because of the tightly knit integration of it's market and technology strategy (every part they manufacture is made in house, No other corporation except Intel does that, guess Intel used to do that atleast in SSD) with total family controlled Conglomerate force while the rest couldn't sustain, The general demographics can be perceived easily but the internal politics and the projected growth are only possible for the person who nature of work is this dept. Coming to the ARM SoC's Samsung's Hummingbird CPU the first foray into the Android market is a ditto Apple A4, Next the SII's Exynos was made developer friendly but there are catastrophic regressions overtime after the growth of the conglomerate, Now the latest Exynos chips they are fast but they don't care even 0.0001% about the Linux OSS, they are the members of the Linux Foundation but they don't care which is irony, Unlike Qualcomm with their reigning control over the market with a rough start from Scorpion - to a good Krait to the excellent Kryo and the OMAP dropping the ball they gained so much traction, Now they are the best with development of the OSS and their CAF is superb, simply fantastic ! No other OEM or SoC maker can touch them, they are lightyears ahead. We are having a new comer here too with HiSilicon which has a strong competition coming with the Kirin 960 CPU. Finally Intel has lost the edge of the Node advantage from top three to 4th in the world but their Process is much mature & refined compared to others, the 14nm is exact 14 or under 14 whilst the others have a 1 or 2 past that.

That said, Actually I just wanted to share an opinion too on this matter. It's not like I hate S.Korea or Love Japan I just respect these both nations pursuit for technological advancements and evolutionary progress. After all It's the Toshiba who invented the NAND memory & competition is the best thing in this Capitalist world, Without that we are done. *cough*Ngreedia, Intel*cough*. Also a big shout out to ASML for powering everything we have now.

Sorry for the OT.

 

Enthusiast CPUs have 28-40 lanes directly connected to the CPU. From my understanding, this is why they can support additional devices without a bottleneck. Not sure how fat the chipset-CPU bandwidth is.

 

Guys, try changing tWTR from default 0 (zero) to 6 or 7 with your @Prema BIOS. Seems like it helps mine at 3000 and 3200. If I set it to 8 then W7 and W10 will not boot without a BSOD. I haven't tried 9 or higher yet.

 

I think they can do as much as PCI/e can transfer, but only for devices directly using those lanes. They still have a DMI (2GB/s either direction) that some M.2 drives were used on in some motherboards, but I think they've since started using the excess PCI/e lanes.

On the other hand, I want to know exactly what the QPI is, because QPI and DMI both exist and they are different and QPI as far as I know is exclusive to -E chipsets. Maybe my information is really wrong, but it's how I understand it at this point. Gah, too many things to learn!

 

Devices connected straight to the CPU are only limited by the link speed they have and in some cases your CPU speed being able to process that data.

 

Good to know. Any idea what QPI is?

 

38.4GB/sec IIRC

 

So, while it's still pretty alpha, Game Mode results for W10 have been checked. i7-7700K and GTX 1080 Scammer's Edition with 16GB 16-18-18 3200MHz RAM. Seems like for the most part, Game Mode either does nothing or makes things worse, lel



@Mr. Fox @Johnksss@iBUYPOWER @Papusan @Q937 @bloodhawk @Prema @Phoenix @Mobius 1

They also tested with the i3-7350K and a R9 Fury X and 1050Ti and the results were basically the same.

 

Looks like all existing enthusiast CPUs still use DMI 2.0 to communicate with the PCH, so there's even more of a bottleneck for anything not directly connected to the CPU PCIe lanes than on Z170+ systems. QPI isn't exposed on SKUs intended for single-CPU operation AFAIK.

 

Yeah, that's why 2GB/s in either direction; DMI 3.0 is double.

I didn't know QPI wasn't used... I'll do moar research at some point when I'm not super tired and/or lazy =D

 

QPI is a standard used to connect CPUs and motherboards together for server products. It functions roughly like pcie lanes with faster throughput. That is, if I'm remembering correctly.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_QuickPath_Interconnect

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

I wonder what hardware M$ use for their testing. Maybe new Telemetry and new features eats of the gains?

 

On X58, QPI was used to interface with the northbridge, but since SB-E, that's been integrated into the CPU. I believe it is still used for inter- and intra-processor communication.

 

Shhhhhhh!!!!!!!! The W10 Kool-Aid kids will hear you!

 

Since you mentioned it, I went hunting for the setting. It seems it determines the number of clock cycles that must happen between RAM receiving a write command and it actually happening. Have you tried a lower number like 2 or 4? This timing improves stability significantly, apparently, as raising it has less chance for RAM to be corrupted and allows it overclocking further. But 7 seems like a bit of a high number. If 4 works for perfect stability instead of 0, then we might really be onto something here =O

 

Excuse me while I be a mutated being and suck information from you *slurrrrrp*

Oh no, what ever will we do

 

I can tell you so much Fox. With a notch lower FPS, they will guarantee feel the fps has increased

 

Yes, I started with 1 and worked up, looking at the frequency of errors produced by TM5. Tornado F5 has exactly the same DDR4-3000 errors as my Clevo, so it has to be faulty BIOS implementation and/or poorly optimized SPD values.

Speaking of numbers, those benchmark scores are better than ever before with the higher values, so it may not be 100℅ accurate that a lower value is better. The limit is something like 28.

 

Well there it is then I guess. Going to aim for 3200MHz 15-17-17-39 with 7 on that number then, eh?

 

Probably so, but will continue tweak testing until I can't identify anything else to tweak test. I may try 8 or higher again, unless it starts to crash the OS like before. Maybe it just did not like the nu!mber 8 for some goofy reason.

 

Okay. Sounds good.

Ooo 3200MHz 15-17-17-39 sounds like bliss, especially for a notebook. Only a couple of desktop sets beat that.

 

Yes, it seems so at this point. Crossing my fingers and hoping the good 3000+ RAM behavior is permanent rather than intermittent. Also note, this is with 64GB (4*16GB) 3200 G.SKILL.

 

You're just used to the "cramming it in" style of engineering art we've become enamored with every since "miniturization" caught on as a design goal.

We used to have plenty of space inside electronics for heat to dissipate and air to flow, room to not have cross-talk and room for fingers to manipulate the parts.

Room and Space, what life needs to be appreciated to it's fullest.

What would you have Acer fill that space with, left over from fitting the larger than parts that drive it require free space?

Even a socketed GPU / CPU arrangement would still have lots of room left free.

Doubling the battery, same thing, there's a 100 watt hour limit to Lithum Ion batteries to be carried on aircraft:
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...fo/media/airline_passengers_and_batteries.pdf

If large fixed (not roll out or folded) screen's become popular, there will end up being plenty of space available for more innovative cooling.

 

They could have added more SATA 3 drive slots, used much more towards cooling, used LGA/MXM... there's just wasted space inside of that thing. I'm not used to miniaturization, I simply feel that wasting space is wasting space. If space is empty with a purpose (like cooling, air pressure and ventilation design goals) then great! But this isn't the case here.

 

That's edge of the motherboard and perimeter exterior expansion that I am assuming Acer's guys didn't realize was there until after the motherboard was designed to be small, per usual.

If these larger than expected frames get popular, the engineers will take on that space more and more, for the first effort, it's nice.

 

The man of the day MARK WALTON
EMAIL [email protected] // TWITTER @markalexwalton

Mark is Consumer Editor at Ars Technica UK by day, and keen musician by night. He hails from the UK, the home of ARM, heavy metal, and superior chocolate.) - 1/24/2017. What has he eaten? He should rather stick to music!!
From the link

You can even upgrade (parts of it) like a desktop PC

"Naturally, as with any gaming laptop, you make tradeoffs in upgradability compared to a desktop. A large panel above the keyboard gives you access to the storage bays (five 2.5-inch bays and two M.2 slots), as well as four desktop-sized (DIMM) DDR4 RAM slots. The laptop comes with 32GB of RAM plugged in, but you can upgrade to 64GB if you're feeling particularly pinched for memory. While the 21X uses a full desktop Intel Kaby Lake Core i7-7700K, Acer says it's not replaceable.
I suspect Acer means the CPU is not easily replaceable, since a desktop chip is likely to be socketed, not soldered, but actually getting access to it could prove tricky."

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/01/acer-21x-nvidia-1080-laptop-hands-on/

 

Very true. Sometimes we forget that there is VALUE in ownership. Heck, I'm very guilty of it, which is the reason behind leap frogging my tech from year to year. I really wish it didn't have to be like that with 'some' things, but only if there was a laptop that could indeed be upgraded past one generation, that would be great.

Well said and thanks for sharing. It's nice to see that you're also on top of things in the industry. I wanted to add a couple things to expound on some of the things that you've mentioned.

With Apple, they've shifted to outfit their products with SKHynix (Worlds #2) and/or Samsung memory chips as you'll find baked onto the mobo. They've dropped Toshiba, because like Qualcomm with their SnapDragon chips, they just did not have the technology to keep up with the nano-meter 'race,' therefore they had both turned to Samsung for help in order to keep their lights on.

The A Series chips of Apple products are all made by Samsung and so are the all the SnapDragon chips starting from the SD820 on...one Korean tech mag even commented on how Qualcomm was begging on their knees for Samsung to help them after the SD810 overheating fiasco. In this fast moving industry, Samsung really holds a firm grip on the market due to their strategy and advancements.

Samsung also owns the majority of, if not all of Sharps entire panel division, so these 4K UHD panels that we see in our laptops are actually by Samsung. The infrastructure was kept in place, but was infused with Samsung panel technology after the 'buy out.' The public and media throw out percentages, but in reality those numbers don't stack up to the numbers in the market so it's pretty easy to tell that Samsung owns that sector.

Samsung has also just recently bought all of Harman and Kardon, including the subsidiaries like JBL and dbx for $8Billion cash. They are in this to win and they are winning.

As for sony, they are old news now. A lot of these older companies have been on a decline and this was all prior to the nuclear disaster. Of course the incident had a major impact in these specific sectors, however, with looking at it from raw numbers and data, Samsung has been able to achieve success in a fraction of the time of what it took these older companies like sony etc... Mind you S.Korea was in ashes after the war that only ended in 1953 along with other devastating factors even prior to the war in 1950, all the while japan really had no hiccups. US bombing the two cities of nagasaki and hiroshima don't really count. tokyo was never touched with our nuke.

What the World doesn't realize is that the run these companies had like sony were made possible due to the Western world pumping money into their (jpn) economy and owning their banking system, which gave a huge jolt financially to such companies who thrived back then during that stretch. However, that is no longer the case. The silver platter is gone and as we can all see jpn is on a decline and so are these older companies.

The point here is that the technology that we all enjoy today are from Taiwan, China and S.Korea who are the 3 giants of Tech / IT. No one (in general) talks about sony, and the older brands anymore. We can clearly see this even in the US when walking into big box stores...you walk in and you see Samsung and LG.

I agree about NGREDIDA and INTEL. Our only hope is to see if AMD can really pull through to keep things in check. If not, it may be a long time before we see something else other than Team Green and Blue. Only time will tell.

 

The comments are so funny, Lol, Those people missed the Real reviews here at NBR, Posted a couple from NBR..Also that's a 7820HK which Ars thinks it's a 7700K lul.

@iunlock , Yeah really looking forward for the Ryzen / VEGA & GDDR6. Want more options

 

Here's a video we can all enjoy

 

Haha post that in the Razer Blade forums or LTT Forums and get flamed hard. IF - they dont take it down fast enough ...

 

Where do you think I found it?

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/733165-razer-laptops-failing/

 

LOL

 

That guy is good! I watched a lot of his macbook repair videos.

 

Yeah, he clearly knows what he's talking about. Wait till you get to the end where they talk about the vBIOS chip

 

He is certainly straight to the point and not afraid to give his opinion.

 

Sounds like quite a few of us here, honestly.