Clevo Overclocker's Lounge

have you guys tried to use liquid ultra on the 1080s of the p870dm3 or km1?

 

Firestrike extreme stress test. I tried @Mr.Fox 5.0 settings and I got my highest firestrike score ever but I still get bsod on the stress test. I also ran prime95 but stopped as soon I saw some of my core usages drop to 50%

 

You might want to bump the voltage a small amount then.

 

A few questions. Using throttlestop do you increase core and cache with the same amount? I have 300 in the power package settings. Is that a correct number? Last do I need to change the cache ratio?

 

Do you guys think is a bad idea to use liquid ultra on the GPUS? 1080s

 

Yup just passed the firestrike extreme stress test by going from +25mv to +26. Max temp wac 80c for CPU and 76/74c for gpu's. I started an x264 stability test but I didn't like seeing temps hit 92/93c. Is there a number I can adjust to try and bring the temp down? Thanks again for helping me hit 5.0

 

It would be all hardware from that point on.

 

Changed uncore to +11 and reran the fire strike stress test. Dropped 1c on CPU and gpu

 

Depends on how you use the laptop and what precautions you take. At the very least you need to cover the GPU core PCB with electrical tape (or liquid electrical tape). The Clevo plastic shroud does not fit well around the GPU die and leaves a gap to trap liquid metal and potentially fry the GPU if it gets under there.

I generally don't use liquid metal paste on GPUs because I haven't found it necessary. They generally do not get hot enough running stock clocks to need it. And, I do not overclock my GPUs to extreme levels except with AC cooling because I don't want to destroy them. I would use something like IC Diamond, Kryosnaut or CoolerMaster Mastergel Maker paste (what I have on mine now). Gelid GC Extreme works OK as well, but I have not found it to be very durable.

 

What temps do you get while gaming heavy GPU intensive games? i get about 85-87c max temps under crysis 3 after about 30 minutes. thats why im tempted to use liquid ultra see if i can lower my temps a bit

 

The problem is having poor contact between the heat sink and die, and you will get bad results with liquid metal paste in that scenario. I need to re-test my temps in gaming since re-pasting. I have not played any games in quite a while. How 'bout I do that just for you, bro? Crysis 3 also happens to be my favorite game.

 

Thanks Mr Fox!

I find Crysis to be a good benchmark to test GPU temperatures... That game really makes the GPUs get hot. These 1080s for sure run hotter than my 980ms

 

Needless to say make sure Vsync is off to let GPUs work as hard as they could that way we see your max temps

 

No problem. Yes, it is a good benchmark.

Oh, you can count on that. I hate v-sync. It is always turned off by default.

Regarding the fit not being good enough for liquid metal, just take a good look at the surface of the vapor chamber where the die contact is supposed to occur. I've had two of vapor chambers, and the one surface that needs to be best one is actually rather crude, to put it mildly. Looks more like a bag filled with rocks, LOL. Certainly nothing that resembles precision by any stretch of the imagination. You need a thicker paste in there that is going to stay put, plug the gap, and do its job.

 

Did you have better results with ICD on there or Mastergel? ICD is the only one i haven't tried yet.

 

I saw mine yesterday when i re pasted ( took the C-clips off on CPU and it Dropped temps by about 2C) back to the GPUs and the vapor chamber, while i was cleaning the old paste off the heatsink where it makes contact with the GPU dies it felt smooth... nothing that stood out that i can remember. I do have the p870km1 not sure if it was revised version maybe? or I might just be lucky. Either way my GPUs do Maxed 87c around. Most games keep it around 78-82c but heavy ones do get them high 80s

 

I get pretty much exactly the same thing. Also had to tone down the CPU from my 4.7GHz daily driver to 4.5GHz or I get random stop errors and freezing with the loud buzzing sounds in Crysis 3. (This I already knew as it has always been that way with all of my computers.) One of the things I love about Crysis 3, beside the game itself, it that it is both CPU and GPU hungry. It's like the 3DMark 11 of games.

This is after playing about an hour.

 

Yes the stock guard is just to stop a freak short between the heatsink and PCB and is not designed to protect against liquids.

 

Here's my experience.

A couple months on, I've got the right amount on there, it's been solid, not moved or run once.

What I don't mention is the huge drop in temps. I can run 30% core overclock and 20% memory and it runs in the 70s.

I suggest trialling it on something less expensive in case you get it wrong. I used my old p170em. Which even with bad heat sink fit saw 20+C reductions

This is an overclockers' thread, liquid metal is better for overclocking, QED.

 

Yes with the right fit and not throwing the system round it helps a lot.

 

Thanks For testing sir. Yeah these GPUs can get warm when they get pushed to the limits. I am tempted to throw some liquid ultra.. still undecided if I am brave enough LOL

 

I also noticed your CPU runs pretty warm 93c. little warmer than mine, maybe becaue my cpu is delidded. my peak Cpu temps @ 4.6 during crysis are 85-87c i have not seen 90s.

also i know you have tried the thermal grizzly Kryonaut paste, did you find any positive results coming from the IC dimond paste? Ive used the dimond paste for a long time now and wondering if there is anything better out there (other than liquid ultra)

 

Yeah, that's about 10°C hotter than normal. I am in the middle of experimenting with the heat sink mods. The heat sink on there now is warped and doesn't fit well. My original heat sink is sitting on my desk. Liquid Ultra and Conductonaut are the best. Nothing is as good as they are... not even close. IC Diamond is the only thing that works well when the heat sink fits like crap. I have Kryosnaut on mine right now, and you can see the temperatures suck with the warped heat sink. Kryosnaut works well only when the heat sink fits well. When the heat sink fits well, Liquid Ultra and Cryonaut work extremely well, so there is not much point in using Kryosnaut unless you have a rough and tumble use pattern. Liquid metals are probably not a good option if you carry the laptop in a bag and slam it around a lot. Kryosnaut would be safer in that scenario.

 

How well is ICD working on the GPU's?
Ill probably give that a shot once my system is back.

 

It was working great for me. Right now I have CoolerMaster MasterGel Maker on them. Seems to be doing OK. Might be just a tad hotter than IC Diamond, but Crysis 3 is pretty brutal and I haven't checked anything else since I applied it.

 

Migraine killed my entire day. I've only touched my PC like an hour or so ago. Blah.

Know what I think? Double Volta cards, if Volta is a bit cooler than Pascal, will be perfect for this machine. As I've been hunting around I've come to the conclusion that this machine isn't capable of holding both GPUs and the CPU under full bore. Since the heat feeds back into each part (running single GPU with one GPU clocked up and another GPU at a paltry 137MHz causes both of them to be within about 5c of each other, even above 60c) it feels like something is just a bit weird there.

But that's a story for 2018, yeah?

 

even with max fans?

 

Yeah, max fans don't seem to be enough. The system gets really loud and slightly vibrates and everything, but it isn't really enough for full-bore 1080N and 7700K.

I know that a heatsink fix on the 7700K with liquid metal will help it stay down, but at some point there is something like 500W of TDP to dissipate, and I don't think it's fully capable.

I will truly see when I get the pads so I can fix the CPU and GPU contacts. Once I do that I theoretically should see a massive temperature drop, I should expect probably a 20c system-wide drop under heavy stress I hear. But look at the stresses I'm getting; the Overwatch screenshot I left in the MSI thread was what, 80% on one GPU, 95% on another, both drawing 150W, CPU only 50% loaded, drawing nowhere NEAR the 95W it's rated to draw. 300fps, yes, but still... the problem remains. That's not even full bore; hot game or not. Crysis 3 unlocked FPS, or playing something very heavy at 4K (since resolution is a very big fps buffer) still appears to be a heat magnet.

There was one point Meaker did a video playing Shadow Warrior 2 on an external 1440p screen. He wasn't holding 144fps, but the GPUs were high 80s and the CPU was in the low 90s; I don't consider that handling the issue properly.

 

At least make it thicker, for example msi kept most of the GT80 design and enlarged the heatsink dimension for the pascal series. That's the proper way to do it.

Had a hunch from the beggining that clevo needed to up the game on heatsink. Can't see that happening now.

 

Nah. I doubt it. They did the "game upping" by making the VC; the 980M SLI heatsinks were separate and the the single 980N was not. 980N SLI was not easily possible without modding. 1080N SLI would have been a joke, and they couldn't lose the top dog spot again by only offering single 1080N (even though I STILL feel single 1080N with VC connected to CPU, delidded/padded/LM on CPU/etc is *THE* best form of this system for anyone who isn't AC benching).

What I wish is that the GPUs could suck more than 190W. I see spikes over 190W easily but on average it bounces around 180 and 190.

 

It's 180w cap then

And I believe you said that MSi SLI 1080 is around 200w?

 

I doubt it, even their non-SLI variant is 150W.

 

That's the one used in the 16L13.

For SLi it's 180w actually, 200w is single 73VR variant.

 

Even with a single 1080N w. VC heatsink I suspect the connection to the CPU is robbing too much heat in gaming. Yes my GPU is running cool but I suspect it's dumping too much heat into the CPU which is starting to bother me. The GPU never goes far north of 70 degrees but the CPU cops the brunt.

 

Have you considered using a smaller size (half the size - not the thickness) low end pad in the connection to the CPU heatsink? Should work well.

 

Yeah.. I did that ages ago bro Paps

 

Running with SLi disabled, pad adjusted, and kryonaut (burned in) result in around 56c for me. With max fan.

 

Yeah 1 card and a VC handles the card just fine. My temps I've quoted to be precise are just auto fans and +105/200 99% usage in Division (which I've been playing more than I'd like to admit)

 

2 card will kick temp out of the window though


used to play division when it got hyped, regretting time lost now lol



overwatch ultra 1440p max ultra 100% render res = GPU0 - 78c / GPU1 - 75C
pretty bad tbh, the cards are running full tilt 180w with max fans (780w eurocom psu)

the fans are starved of air, removing the keyboard and letting the fans intake from top will improve temps by 4-5c for the GPUs

we need faster fans, denser heatsink fins, more precision manufacturing to reduce gaps between fan and heatsink (I had to use kapton tape on mine to seal the gaps)



what's with clevo and gaps?

 

It is real simple. They don't care. Neither do the the chimpanzees they compete with. There is not one notebook OEM or ODM that is worthy of any respect or patronage.

This is the best high performance laptop money can buy, but it is still not good enough. I kind of doubt I am ever going to purchase another "high performance" laptop ever again. I will probably just get the cheapest throw-away BGA garbage for $350 or less from Walmart and build a desktop for benching and gaming. I am sick of seeing nothing but soldered "gaming" trashbooks built with wimpy components, and/or beasts that are broken due to shoddy engineering, and half-assed QC. It is just not worth the extra hassle or expense any more to try to have a truly legit DTR.

 

Yup the 73VR is indeed. ~200w

The 1080 card in the Gt73Vr is 200w. The highest recorded graphics score in 3dmark, I did with this card. It's definitely not 150w.

That's an excellent temp for a single 1080 and as expected with the monster hs and fans.

The 1080 in the 775DM3 with max fans isn't too far off, but in the low 60C's.

::iunlock::

 

The VC HS has such a nice big surface to cut a hole in the desk and to hook up a close loop cooler to the VA HS lol... Or Heck directly to the die and IHS haha.

Desperate times calls for desperate measures...

::iunlock::

 

With VC and single 1080N and all 3 fans working, this is most certainly the best the system will get. The third fan takes SO much heat off of things, and in CPU-only tests, the machine can be downright ice cold once it's tuned.

The second 1080N is the real problem, if it exists.

The problem with the primary 1080N being single GPU, is not anything like being too hot, or any such endeavour. In fact, even in the middle of the day here I've never had it touch 70c; I actually wonder how you manage to do so, unless your 7700K is 5GHz or something and is offloading a lot of heat with a shim and LM on things. The real problem is that there's a lot of extra room for clockspeeds, but it's TDP limited. It's better than *snort* nVidia's Scammer's edition *snort* *chuckle* *full on laughter rolling all over the floor* though. When you're running this machine hard and you really want ALL the performance you can get out of it, the TDP draw becomes a bit of an issue. To be frank this is the problem with ALL mobile Pascal cards, period.

But in this case, I don't know... as much as many here will jump at me for it, if:
- We can't get the 3000MHz RAM working easily (everyone taking 2400MHz cl14 for a sort of Safe Bet)
- 1080N SLI is only useful when the system is something around 80% loaded WITH a lot of cooling mods
- CPU overclocking requires a LOT of work and purchase from essentially one of two vendors WORLDWIDE if users don't want to go from power user to full-blown enthusiast overnight
- The system NEEDS a Prema Mod to even function at stock without throttle (limiting guaranteed purchase to ONE vendor worldwide)

it becomes a little harder to push it. Plus the 200W 1080N in the GT73VR, soldered CPU or not, is an attractive consideration for users who only go for single GPU.

I'll see how it goes after I change out my pads and whatnot. Maybe for all but the most extreme cases, it can work. I am not sure. The CPU will be having LM on it one way or another; whether that be via shim or via simply dropping the clips, or maybe even both, I'll see.

Don't get me wrong, I do love this thing. Especially after tuning the CPU some. If the tuning is the default state of getting one from HID or OBSIDIAN, I'll take it, if it helps me with temps more in mGPU stress scenarios and with the CPU on the whole. But as of right now, I just can't see how I should recommend this to just anyone. I know it isn't just for anyone, but you can't really say "it's a machine for enthusiasts" and leave it at that.

Anyway, since this shell has only passed about 3 generations, I think we're in for a coffee lake, volta refresh and be done with it. If Volta isn't so brutally hot like Pascal, the machine might actually just kind of fall into place, like how the P6 series did after moving to pascal. It was overkill GPU cooling on Maxwell and poor CPU cooling, but then those models didn't last that long until Skylake came, and then the cooling was really balanced for what it is there. And now Pascal and Kaby lake it feels like the machine was kind of designed for that from the start. So we'll see.

Too bad though, I truly wish Clevo had proper competition that mattered. Maybe then we'll REALLY get something fantastic. But by that point, I don't know how many of us will still be hunting these kinds of laptops. Not being a pessimist, but we're kind of clutching at the straws here. Anyway, pads then review! Soon™ etc. (Ya'll think ya'll been waiting? *I* been waiting for pads and LM I want to use auto fans and not cross 70c on any part)

 

I like having room to tweak and make it better personally, I get satisfaction being able to squeeze out more. I understand Mr.Fox's sentiment though.

 

Aww...

We talked about this mxm model, used in the GT83VR and 16l13-1080.
On the 16L13-1080 it's 150w, GT83VR is 180w.

 

And that attitude of theirs just lost them a customer . (Plenty more actually, cuz I'm contagious)
The DM1 wasn't even that bad , sometimes the heat sinks would be warped, but the precision wasn't as bad as it is with the DM3.
They literally took a step backwards, when they could have used the frame and space available to make things more sung and tightly fitting.
Changed things that didn't need to be changed (CMOS battery socket).
Also I feel that whatever manufacturer they are using for the heat sinks now, isn't as good as Foxconn, even though the latter had it's faults, it wasn't as bad.

 

Temps should be taken like this


The human testicle has a TJmax of 41c, but do really want it that hot?

 

See here is the thing, after a little bit of fiddling with the system, one can run it perfectly fine at stock.
If I take my OC off of the GPUs my processor won't even cross 85C , when both the GPU and CPU are running full tilt. With the GPUs maxing out at 75C.
But the problem here is that most resellers can't (or won't , who knows) do what Obsidian and HIDEvolution do. And then the customers who buy from any of those other resellers / builders , are left with KBBQ stations.
But IF I have to reccomend this system to anyone who isn't going to get it from the aforementioned mentioned 2, it would have to be with a single 1080 and a delidded CPU. (Done on their own or I'll help)

End of the day it's Clevo fault for not giving 2 ****s, about the QC and better thermal redirection.
People like @Prema are the only reason that users like me and Fox are even dealing with these systems.
More like @Prema is the only reason why I'm here , heck I don't even trust the Prema bios versions that are not from HIDE or directly from the Lord himself.

Clevo has had enough time to get their **** together.

 

Wanna try Evolve Stage 2 (free) maxed/unlocked fps or OW main menu (maxed, SLI on, 300fps limit)? Interested to see what you get. Crysis 3 as well since Mr. Fox tried it already and we have a kind of baseline.

I do think we can kind of get close at some point but not convinced. Of course soon I can check myself I suppose.

Sent from my OnePlus 1 using a coconut

 

Already did OW. Ultra settings, no capped fps crap. SLI enabled. 2 hour session.
Doesn't cross 75C ( sometimes 78C, if the desktop is on as well, both are next to each other) on the GPUs and 68C on the CPU, ( both at stock). With max fans. Ambient temps at 24-26C.
I'll run more tests once I get the system back.