Clevo Overclocker's Lounge

Maybe so, but without the heat feeding back into it now, it might be different. My thermal pad was half-destroyed, I didn't have a huge bridge connection, and even then stressing the GPUs could send my CPU extremely high. With the current situation and the beefier heatsink it might just be better overall cooling for 24/7 usage, because the GPU usage doesn't need to factor into it. I.E. whatever you get in a CPU-based stress test will work for gaming too. As much as this looks more band-aid-y than before, I think it might overall prove more consistent CPU temps. I'm still salty I cannot slot an 8700K in here too btw.

I tend to keep things the same so I can keep voltage equivalent. Even if 4.8 is on 1 core it still tosses the entire CPU up to 4.8 in general, so I wouldn't be looking at it for a totally viable situation. But hey, 4.2GHz at 1v might be perfect for 6c/12t.

 

Maybe you missed my english. I talk about the cooling capacity. I change/mod the text with <---> Hope you understand this better

Nice oc'd 7700K is similar <use similar powa> as stock clocked 8700K (Aka the orginal DM1/3 Cpu HS should manage to < cool> stock 8700K powa). The Coffee cpu <cooling> will be <equal> the same as today's 7700K cooling capacity in P8xx series laptops. This isn't a big upgrade <in cooling capacity> vs. what we have with Skylake/Kaby. Rather say <the cooling will be same>.

 

Yes that makes significantly more sense now xD

 

I have tried powering up the Clevo 1080 from the KM, while the card itself was installed in the DM-G machine, had same issue you are having: just black screen with no backlight!

one man told me that there is a EC check routine going on through power connector on the KM/DM3 machines

 

I normally sell my old* rigs to my best clients for an amazing price. Right now I working on the last of my X99 builds with a 6950X and 1080/ 1080 TI. Deciding whether to keep it (add a custom loop) or sell it. I don't piece out my builds though.

Depending on your X99 build, I wouldn't upgrade if I were you unless you're going 7940x or higher. There is not much of an improvement between these generation of CPU's. My 6950X is actually keeping up with my 7940x (CLC only) in certain benches.

 

Can you please tell me if I want to install Win 7 clean install, if I can do it with WSUS offline updater DRM free, just leave updates turned off in control panel during the clean install? Also, can you tell me on WSUS offlien updater, do I do security only updates? or do i just leave that unchecked?

 

I will run this by @Prema and see what he might know about that. I think the BIOS+EC mod I am working with might be made to address that already. Does the DM-G you tested have a BIOS modded for 7700K or still 6700K BIOS?

The MSI 1080 works fine. I just sent you some information by PM also.

 

just stock BIOS

 

Cool! Thanks for the advice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Just a note about the vapour chamber heatsink. The pipes are not carrying the heat load, they are guiding the vapour.

 

Thanks for the reminder.
The question is... Will gpu's now suffer aka run hotter due no more heat being pushed to the Cpu HS grills? Or have Clevo instead increased the new Grid Vapor Chambers cooling capacity?

 

Looks to me like the GPU cooling will suffer a little, but the CPU will benefit. Since the GPUs usually aren't the things that overheat so easily and the CPU has a lot more heat to run through, it will likely make for an overall better cooling solution.

The thing I REALLY wish, though, is that they make single vapor-chamber extremely well-done heatsinks. Like, little to no contact issues, each GPU gets its own, and maybe a bottom cover revision that lets more air be blown out the middle heatsink.

 

Yeah, better cpu cooling is needed with Coffee. But still, wrong direction if Gpu's will suffer(Pascal run better the coolder yuo can hold it). It may be that the Vapor chamber will be more accurately made (well-done heatsink) without the detour up to Cpu grills. And better fans will help as well. Everything can be better vs. previous model.. For low cost!!

 

My GPUs are just voltage limited to be fair.

 

in 2013 they (DELL) released the AW17 Ranger and AW18 Viking, which were still upgradable. It's not DELL's fault if INTEL does not do a mobile PGA lineup for broadwell or Skylake or kabylake.

They have plans to do a Mobile PGA lineup for Coffeelake in 14 months from now though.

When or if ALIENWARE comes out with newer models that offer all the same things the M17X-R4 and AW17's had, in a year from now or so, will you Mr.Fox be an Alienware fan again ? You have said somewhat unretractable things, to be considered a FAN of Alienware or DELL. However, people used to look at you like you were DELL/Alienware's spokesperson before.

So to iterate, are you only interested in the latest tech and hold no allegiance for any brand, or do you in your heart have a special place for one brand above the rest ? Most people have preferred brands for things and such, which is why I ask. Just like some people cheer thier favorite team, the thing is, some people start routing for the other team when thier team is not winning, and say that the now winning team is and always was thier favorite. They switch whichever way the tide goes.

DELL bein a big company, shouldn't be expected to release desktop CPU's for a laptop, otherwise we might as well drop the "DESKTOP" and "MOBILE" naming schema to begin with and just use them interchangeably. Thats not the case though.

It's INTEL's fault there is no mobile for the last 3 years or so. No competition, means they can cut costs and corners and make a mint with whatever is cheapest. By limitting CPU's to being BGA on laptop, they ensured many more sales. Now THANK GOD AMD is back and kicking butt, with more sales over INTEL for the second quarter going ,and presumed to continue for another quarter, INTEL is finally going to step things up and do a mobile coffeelake and cannonlake generation late next year.

Imagine - when Cleov has to face against a new Alienware in the 17" lineup that is a cannonlake and has MXM 3.0b VGA's. It could happen, I think nit's going to happen, but that could be wishful thinking, with AMD stirring the pot, they are going to release some newer next gen AMD mxm3.0 cards as well, and thus I think GPU's might start to come under competition again (or please one can only hope).

 

It is Alienware's fault for all the mistakes they have made. I do not blame Intel for their decision to use panty-waist BGA filth. That is on them. If they had any gonads they would have used desktop CPUs like Clevo and told Intel to shove the mobile BGA trash up their butt. Their true colors came shining through.

I do not care about brand allegiance, but I do hold animosity for trash peddlers and will never buy an Alienware system again regardless of what they might do in the future.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. They are not a good brand and can do nothing to regain my trust again. All I have to do is look at the garbage they are selling (laptop and desktop) and it is clear they are a washed up has-been outfit and are not worthy of my patronage.

If they lack the ability to build a desktop worth owning, it would be foolish to think they can do things right with a laptop.

From what I can see for AMD their GPUs still suck at overclocking, just as they have since AMD bought ATI. GPUs that run great and are powerful, but suck at overclocking are of zero value to me. Same goes for CPUs. Things being as they are for AMD CPUs and GPUs and their low capacity for overclocking, I am not seeing a future for myself that includes their brand. If that changes and they end up being able to outclock Intel and NVIDIA, I will give team red a second chance. I do not hold animosity for them, I only find their products to be a disappointment because they suck at overclocking. I hope their new GPUs are more durable than the failure-prone crap they used to sell.

 

I'll have to ask my friend to OC his RX Vega 64 and see how much of an overclocker it is.

I know my Titan X (Pascal) overclocks nicely, as expected from nVidia cards.

 

it makes no sense for a company like DELL to offer DESKTOP components in a LAPTOP, it's an oxymoron for them. It's unfair for us to criticise them for that, in my opinion. It's just not who they are.
When have they ever gone and done this ? When have they ever given anyone the impression they do this sort of Hybrid thing ?

Had INTEL released mobile socketable broadwell and Skylake and Kabylake CPU's you can bet Alienware's would have had them, and then along with that MXM 3.0B VGA's

 

Read...


They could still offer MXM as MSI. But prefer cripple their Trash even more.

Or put it the other way... <If they lack the ability to build a laptop worth owning, it would be foolish to think they can do things right with a desktop.>

 

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. They could do whatever they have the vision to do. The trouble is, they lack vision and ingenuity. I don't have to be fair with them. It also does not excuse their other mistakes, like selling turdbooks with AC adapters that are too weak, leaving MOSFETs with no cooling and using a half-assed tripod heat sink. It also doesn't excuse the lame crap they do with desktops like using proprietary garbage in them and crippling them, and not keeping current with firmware updates that are status quo with their competitors. At the end of the day it makes no difference whose "fault" it is, because all they sell is garbage and I will not buy it or cut them any slack for selling trash. They used to be in a league of their own, and now they're just another brand name peddling consumer-grade turdbooks, as well as gimped overpriced proprietary desktops.

 

makes no sense for them to offer desktop components in a desktop either ... ... ...

Poppy beat me to it!

 

That's why I posed the questions I did about the heatsink and fans. Not painting the heatsink fins = better dissipation. Better fans (also that we could slot into our units) would mean better cooling. As @bloodhawk put it, his AW pushes 2/3 the air the clevo does and probably cools better. I don't want bigger or louder fans, I want more EFFICIENT fans.

 

Be a nice troll.

 

DELL is a big company that specialises in corporate needs and services, the gamer division that we are concerned about, is relatively NOT thier market, even with Alienware, it's a minority to the shareholders.

I want to say first of all, I do not want to come off hostile or make you think I do not value you or anyone else's opinion.

I am not saying we would not LIKE them to offer all these fun and amazing products like Desktop CPU's in a laptop, but if you are already making more money elsewhere, would you stop concentrating on that and go explore a smaller market for less profits ?

I used to work DELL, indirectly , and they'd send me 90% of the time to install servers or replace a desktop for an office worker or meet some investor to replace his laptop or upgrade it or encrypt it and prepare for a migration or following through on someone else's migration and deploy whatever... maybe one out of 10 clients were some home user with a laptop, and another small percentage of that was Alienware's.

When we saw the pricing and the money, the bills these clients were paying, it's was 10,000:1 in terms of dollars if you compare high end corporate businesses and services versus the home user with a gaming laptop.

However, I respect your right to disagree that it makes more sense your way for DELL to spend more time and effort doing what doesn't make them nearly as much money. Maybe everyone else's insight into them as a corporate entity dwarf's my understanding of where thier profits are.
I commend DELL infact, for actually having gained so much of this niche market to begin with. So many other companies have just backed out and failed altogether to acquire it, like IBM.

 

Well considering pascal gets about a 10% or less OC (1911MHz stock turbo, higher on AIB cards to 2113MHz assumed-max OC), and Vega cards seem to get about 18% (up till 1700MHz) when undervolted and the memory is OC'd to the limit, I think the latter actually OCs better. But there aren't going to be many aftermarket Vega cards because for some reason how AMD did the cards they don't work well non-reference, or something to that effect

 

They offer MXM when they have mobile PGA CPU's to offer. Otherwise they would be increasing the thickness and supporting DESKTOP GPU's in MXM form, like pascal with MSI. It's the same reasons. I also think NVidia put some pressure on them and made sure not to create mobile MXM 3.0b cards at the same time INTEL stopped the mobile lineup again, because no competition and money making reasons. This is all going to change once again, by the end of next year. AMD is back, and even if you do not like AMD, I would be hard pressed not to praise them for coming back and making things competitive again.

 

I'm not here making excuses for DELL, I am just relaying how they think/operate as I've come to know it over the last 2 decades.
Appeal to thier investors if you want to make a change. I do not see a bunch of older men who do investments like with companies like DELL caring much about gaming laptops, all they care is what they can relate too, money and banking, and maybe portability, connecting to wifi..at best. It would be a hard proposal to tell them to throw us a bone here as gamers wanting enthusiast grade overclocking laptop/platforms, etc..

MSI however - no idea what thier excuse it, they seem to go down both roads simultaneously. They pretty much specifically deal with gamers, as thier largest number of clientele I think, anyone disagree >?

 

How do you overclock RAM in a P870DM-G with out getting a post failure?

 

You adjust speed and timings to get a stable configuration. Note that 4x 16GB is the most stressful configuration for the IMC.

 

First, Dell is not a public company any longer. It has been over three years since they went private. There are NO investors to appease. If Mr. Dell wanted to, he can change course on the products his company produces.

Second, you are in a thread procured by enthusiasts who prefer desktop components in their machines. Many of which feel ignored by Dell and other BGA production companies. You are essentially walking into a hurricane and asking others to come join. Some people may hear you but the majority are going to ignore you.

I am not saying you are right or wrong, but I think it time to let it go.

 

They (1st party companies HP, Lenovo/Thonkpad) design systems under the constraints of what the manufacturing market can do.

MSi (and Clevo, etc) doesn't follow the manufacturing market because they have their own department for manufacturing notebook parts. Therefore there's no restriction on form factor or socketed components as you find on most GT models and whitebook LGA.

In the case of Clevo I think they have a stronger power over the manufacturers compared to other 1st party companies, but I'm not entirely sure.




CMIIW.

 

Risk vs perceived reward. Mobile parts have engineering and marketing help from intel/Nvidia.

 

They just produce OEM parts. They used to make those for AW, now they make them for HID, Sager and everybody else. We are not supposed to own Clevo laptops, this is also why they don't sell to retail but only to sellers...

That explains a LOT.

 

Agree... it's not necessary to like AMD to appreciate their improvement will create more pressure for Intel and NVIDIA to distinguish themselves by offering superior products. This is a win for everyone. The only way it wouldn't be a win is if they cave in and go the BGA turdbook route, in which case "abandon hope all who enter here" and hasta la vista, sayonara, buh-bye to top quality high performance notebooks forever.

This is true. It still doesn't excuse the engineering defects, marketing lies and deceptive hype. They are only a viable brand today because of what they used to be... living in the shadow of their former greatness. What they sell today is crippled proprietary desktop garbage and notebooks with styling that appeals to gamers, but are only marginally better than an XPS notebook yet presented to be something substantially better.

 

I would like to do this. Not because it needs to be done, but because I have a feeling @Mr. Fox and @Papusan will like this one product

the shop selling it is irrelevant, just a normal shop. Price is irrelevant. What is interesting is that there are AW laptops with 6500U CPUs out there. Low Voltage CPUs on gaming laptops...

315 Cinebench R15 score for your gaming laptop.

Now the price is about 2000 EUR. Take this as you want, it exists.

http://www.domo.ro/laptop-laptopuri...n10-qhdplus_-pNSA0MjQp-l/?utm_source=price-ro

 

Because the CPU is less important than the GPU typically. That chip is fine for a 960M in the vast majority of titles.

 

It exists stupidity as well.

And 2000 EUR is ok? Or $1550 U.S. dollars

 

It's a listing for an old machine, same could be said for a 680M machine with a 3rd gen i7, does not mean the machine was bad.

 

Yeah, a bargin. Mind you, reduced from 2 291.2783 U.S. dollars I'm sure the one who buy it, will be a happy camper.

 

It will take more than a i3 normal voltage to process things in photoshop or anything really.

With 960m, it won't be able to process the physics for any title where 960m would be able to do more.

Remember, it is 315 Cinebench R15. It is about 30% of what a properly overclocked 6700K can do. It is less than half of a normal voltage i7, but costs more than a 1050ti + 6700HQ.

A system based on that will not be snappy or nice to use.

It has the same power as an i5 from gen 4. This means a CPU that was released 4 years ago but was also i5... 4200M to be more precise...

 

is it wrong of me to wish tons and tons of people to buy AMD products, so I do not have to support them myself ?

The lineups inco,min late next year should be the answer we get to the whole AMD/INTEL competition. If they are better then the competition was good, maybe. If not, then we're all doomed !

 

Thanks for sharing Brother @Georgel - it is a last-gen PoserBook for the wannabe enthusiast or casual gamer that cares more about image than results. In 2012 it was viewed as a joke for anything of this caliber to bear the Alienware name, but now it's almost normal to see this kind of stuff from them and others. The focus has shifted to finding the edge of borderline adequacy (and charging a premium for it) instead of reveling in the glory of excess. The bar has been lowered and we may never recover from compromises of this magnitude that affect us all, whether directly or indirectly.

 

No, I don't think so. In fact, I could say it is right of you to wish that. Results are more important than brand, and I think it would be wrong to want AMD to fail. I think you (and I) can genuinely want them to be wildly successful without having to prove that by purchasing their products. I sincerely do want them to be successful, and because brand does not matter I will buy their products if they ever become successful enough the best option available in terms of holding the performance crown. I could even admit if they offer better value and still be unwilling to buy their products if they are not the overclocking performance kings. And, you are right... if they don't bring their best to the table and make Intel and NVIDIA lose sleep over it then we are all doomed. We will continue to pay more and get less from Intel and NVIDIA.

 

You'd be surprised at how well it would do most of the time, it was a good partner for that gpu.

As you get more powerful that can shift.

 

I've never OCd a GPU. I actually had the @Prema bios for about 2 months before I realised it didn't have a Vbios. So I most likely don't know what I'm talking about but, here it goes anyway. If all the other GPUs could be unlocked relatively easily (980m, 880m etc) and the 1080 is locked up tighter than a bull's rear end. That tells me there's A LOT left in the card as far as performance and if it's unlocked it'll mess up future sales of 1080ti's or 1180s or whatever they're going to call them. Does that sound right or am I talking out my rear end?

 

There is a lot of sense in that logic and something we have been talking about for a long time. A similar example is AMD 7970M and NVIDIA 680M. The former was a powerful GPU stock that no amount of vBIOS tweaking would make a good overclocker. It performed more or less the same as 680M running stock with a stock vBIOS. But, that is where the similarities ended. With a vBIOS mod the 680M utterly destroyed it and ran much faster than it did stock. NVIDIA later released 780M and with a stock vBIOS it could not hold its own against 680M with a modded vBIOS. It took a modded vBIOS to make 780M a better GPU than 680M.

That said, you can overclock the snot out of 1080 with a stock vBIOS, but it definitely has a great deal of unlocked potential. NVIDIA made the vBIOS signed and protected against flashing with modded firmware. Whether is it the primary basis for it or not, it makes sense and it is logical that NVIDIA will not have to try as hard on whatever GPU becomes the replacement for 1080.

 

And don't forget GTX880M. What an upgrade over its predecessor 780M.

 

WOW! they'll get 2 or 3 upgrades out of basically one GPU. If the price wasn't so high it probably wouldn't get the blood boiling as much, but these cards cost a small fortune.

 

Well, a 1070 can be made *30%* faster by a HW programmer and the Pascal Bios Editor, if you went into the 1080 "Unsafe" presets range of 230W. Power limits hold the card back, so even a stock card would hit power limits (depending on scene/workload) up to 230W if you unlocked the power limits. The MXM slot is only designed for 195W "Burst" power delivery (19.5V, the rating of the PSU, and a "10" factor), and this is supposed to be burst, not sustained power, so the mainboard's power delivery system come into play on whether it can handle the load without blowing something, even if the MSI and Clevo 1070 cards are overbuilt and can handle that power draw. The 1080 has an auxiliary power connector, and unlocked that can go up to 260W. Extreme modders could try to go even higher (Coolane reached 258W on just a 1070 directly through the MXM but that was only for a quick run), but for the 1080, then you would have to deal with too many factors: 1) can the MXM and auxiliary power connector handle such power draw, and to what amount? 2) Can the mainboard VRM's deliver that type of power? 3) If it can, do you have a large enough PSU to avoid tripping the PSU overload breaker if you have a mainboard Bios/EC that allows full unlimited power limits? 4) Do you have a proper modded Bios/EC that will allow more than 330W of system power without throttling the CPU?

I don't know if anyone has tried modding their 1080 past the 250W power draw limit you get in @Coolane 's editor, with the 1080 "Preset" button, and I don't think people want to risk blowing VRM's to go past 250W. While the 1070 can go to 185W mod rather safely (a repaste and repad of thermal pads is highly recommended, and a modded Bios/EC or PSU to allow more than 230W of total system AC power without causing the CPU to throttle (some systems have a cap on 1070 detected systems to limit total system draw to 230W, like MSI)), a highly modded 1080 will almost require good thermal pads, Liquid metal, and luck. Plus you are going to run into some huge thermal problems with a 1080N pushing more than 250W.

 

Yup, they do that as well. So has AMD. We have seen rebranded GPUs up the kazoo from both of them. NVIDIA is the master of smoke and mirrors using firmware and driver magic to make artificial differences in performance between two or three generations of GPU. It gives them something new to sell and for the kiddos to get excited about with little more than a small bump in shader count, goose the clocks a tad and making it seem like something special and new. We threw a monkey wrench into the works for them, so they went Nazi on us with Falcon protection filth. Sometimes there is a major change in architecture and a massive leap in performance, (such as going from Kepler to Maxwell, or Maxwell to Pascal,) but they generally milk us for as long as they can.