Clevo W870CU Review With ATI 5870m

Some companies are silly like that.....

 

Dell Studio 1747 Line 2.....I repeat Line 2....

 

Does G73 with 920XE allow you to OC using BIOS?

 

Yes. It even has a 7% OC option for the 720 and 820.

 

So the G73 has multiplier control for the extreme cpu? I knew about the turbo mode, but an unlocked multi is a much bigger deal.

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5877966&postcount=147

 

i'm just frighten of the memory temps on the gpu of the g73....

 

You don't think you can make it better?

 

not saying that I can't. Just feeling lazy. Lol.

 

Mandrake,

Does your W870CU fit comfortably into this bag?

Thank you,

NightBandit

 

Drake doesn't have the W870.

 

However very nice bag !! wouldn't mind that for my 8690

 

Not that I have one but I don't see why not, if it's made for 17" laptops it should do the job.

 

If it can fit the M1730 which was a behemoth of a laptop, it will easily fit the W870

 

Yeah my M17x fit in that bag with my Thinkpad.

 

Just a thought on OC'ing the 5870. Notebookcheck lists the Mobility Radeon 58 50 as having a 2GHz mem clock. Shouldn't it be possible then to oc the mem on the 5870 to the same value? It's GDDR5 memory after all and possibly they are even use the same chips on the 5870 and the 5850. Or is the information on notebookcheck simply wrong?

 

It's double data rate, quad pumped, so 1000MHz transfered across the memory link twice up and twice down for an effective bandwidth of 4000MHz. Notebookcheck is not incorrect; a lot of desktop GPU manufacturers list their cards this way as well. However, they listed the bandwidth of the memory for only half of the link cycle rate.

 

I think your right. Anyway, I understand from this picture that the Mobility Radeon HD 5870 uses Hynix H5G01H24AFR-T2C modules. At least the one on the picture does it would be nice if somebody could state which modules are on the cards Clevo uses (if not already down... didn't check every post here - shame on me). Google indicates that these are the same modules used on the (Sapphire) Radeon HD5750. The Sapphire Radeon HD5750 is clocked at 1250 MHz. So that should be a relatively save oc value for the mem. We should check for other desktops radeons using the same memory.

 

Wait, I can see from Moo's pictures in the first post that the Clevo verson does not use Hynix mem modules. I cannot see clearly what's on the memory modules, but could it be Samsung K4G10325FE-HC04? The same memory modules are on the Powercolor HD 5750 and that has a mem clock of 2.3GHz!

 

The memory on the MR 5870 are Samsung modules rated for 1250MHz as denoted by the "04" at the end of the long code inscribed on the memory, so yes you are correct. 04 is 0.4ns, or 2500MHz. Because memory is double data rate, the actual clock speed of the chip is 1250MHz. The memory can safely be overclocked to 1250MHz providing that the temps are kept out of the danger zone.

This is the equation to calculate memory bandwidth for GDDR3. Bandwidth = bus width * GHz memory speed * (1byte / 8bits) * 2 data rate. Using the GTX 285M as an example, bandwidth = 256bit * 1GHz * (1/8) * 2, would give me a bandwidth of 64GB/s. For the MR 5870, because it uses GDDR5 memory, which is quad pumped, the data rate would be multiplied by 4 instead of 2. So for the MR 5870, bandwidth = 128bit * 1GHz * (1/8) * 4, would give me a bandwidth of 64GB/s, the same as the GTX 285M with GDDR3 memory. The narrow memory bus is the main factor that is preventing the GDDR5 chips from being used to their full potential. Using a 256bit memory bus with GDDR5 means a lot more heat produced by the chips and the memory controller, and a lot more power consumed, in which the current top tier notebooks cannot handle. Using a 256bit memory bus with GDDR5 memory clocked to half their speed would produce more heat and consume more power compared to a 128bit bus with GDDR5 memory clocked to reference. Incorporating a 256bit bus would also be expensive. Also, there are politics involved between ATi and Nvidia, so ATi has non-engineering reasons controlled by the white collar sales and marketing that halted a 256bit memory bus from being used in the card.

However, this is only the maximum theoretical memory bandwidth. Some of the bandwidth is lost to latency, which falls under the memory timings. Unlike system memory where the CPU cannot keep up with the sheer memory bandwidth, latency doesn't matter, though in the old DDR1 days it mattered a lot more. GPU memory is more sensitive to latency as it and the GPU core are on the same daughterboard and the GPU core is capable of crunching a lot more executions than a CPU, while a CPU and system memory still need to communicate to each other on a much longer pipeline, and that a CPU just can't keep up with the system memory like I mentioned above. However, with the advent of the GT200 with a 512bit memory bus and GDDR5 on ATi cards, GPU memory bandwidth has skyrocketed far ahead in terms of performance compared to the GPU core and the full memory bandwidth cannot be fully utilized by the GPU core (except in benchmarks). Essentially, the situation has become like the CPU and system memory because of that large difference in performance making the GPU core the bottleneck, meaning that more bandwidth will not benefit games or other real applications. However, this is for desktops, and I need to remind ourselves that we are in the notebook world where memory bandwidth hasn't caught up to desktops yet and it is still a prevalent key factor for our GPU's. GPU memory timings on most cards nowadays are optimized for their given memory clock speed set by the manufacturer. Usually ~10% of total effective bandwidth is lost due to latency. Loosening the timings will allow for a larger potential memory overclock, which is what we want as raw bandwidth is better than less latency. However, in the case where the memory is already near or at it's limit like the 1000MHz rated Samsung modules on the GTX 285M, loosening the timings may not be the best idea as a clock speed higher than it's rated maximum would be harmful. This is where tightening the timings would be beneficial as one would squeeze every bit of efficiency from the memory while keeping a clock speed of 1000MHz. NiBiTor allows us to tinker with our timings, but it is better to leave them alone. At the same clock speed, but on their respective memory bus of 256bit for GDDR3 and 128bit for GDDR5, the total bandwidth between GDDR5 and GDDR3 is the same. But because GDDR5 has higher latency than GDDR3, this makes GDDR5 actually slower than GDDR3. Take a minute to let that settle in for a bit. The current situation is that the GDDR5 memory in notebook GPU's is terribly overhyped. Disregarding overclocking, the only thing that makes the MR 5870 better than the GTX 285M is the GPU core itself. Yes, GDDR5 is a future proof technology as manufacturers will eventually make better and more efficient chips and be able to get more efficient memory controllers with a 256bit interface to be able to stick them into notebooks, though I doubt that will come anytime soon as that would produce so much heat, whereas GDDR3 isn't as flexible and will be designated for below top tier products as time goes on. But like I said above, the current MR 5870 and GTX 285M are almost identical in memory performance. It is only the faster and more efficient core in the MR 5870 that makes it faster than the GTX 285M.

 

So I think I might jump ship from the G73 to this one...the esata and the expresscard is very tempting.

However I do have one concern with the power supply, has anyone run into any problems with the powersupply even with a second HD installed? The Asus is rated at 150W and this one is 120W that's quite a difference.

Thanks!

 

Almost all of the W870CU users have two storage drives in their notebooks. By you asking that question is a sign that not a single person has had justified issues. Search all you want.

 

I have had 0 issues with the stock PSU running a i7 920 and 2x500gig HDs... I have played plenty of games on my machine so that should be a good indicator the stock PSU under normal conditions will be just fine.....

 

There is nothing to worry about on the supply that comes stock with the 8760/8690 machines.

I have been keeping track of the posts on both laptops and have not seen one failure of the supply by anyone who was using their machine in an everyday fashion.

The post that I started for an upgraded supply is in no way indicative of a problem. The one thing that people like that supply for is the straight plug instead of the right angle. I like the idea of getting one because I like to tinker with things, want the extra headroom and so I have a back up in the unlikely event I need it.

I have extensively researched the available high end laptops and find the Sager 8760 the best 17" laptop out there right now, Period!

 

Soviet was banned?

Been away for a few days and you guys get out of control!

 

I'm considering on getting this over the G73, but the big thing that worries me is for the same price you are getting a lesser-speced machine, as well as I want this to last 4 years, 3 year international warranty vs 1 year local australian for the clevo...to get 3 years on the clevo is $350AUD! What are your opinions?

 

I saw he is banned haha....maybe it is like when batboy was banned?

 

Thats a tough decision since you have to pay so much more for a lesser specced machine.... If i was in your position i would probably opt for the Asus...

They both have there pros and cons but the only difference in the end was the GPU temps on my 8760 are ALOT cooler but i dont think that can justify the difference in price for you.... So yeah i would get the Asus...

 

A Clevo-Sager system is more user upgradable and much easier to work on. If you are one that likes upgrade and such go with the Clevo-Sager. The W870CU is the best choice right now IMO. If a long international warranty is of utmost importance then...

 

Well the big reason I am considering the Clevo is because the wait times are weeks-months for the Asus...where the Celvo is right away, but because I want this to last 4 years, I'm a little worried about only having a 1 year warranty.

Does anyone have any experience with very old Clevo machine that have withstood the test of time?

I like the fact hopefully a couple years down the road I can upgrade the cpu and gpu in the Clevo easily giving some new life into the machine. I might need the 8GB of ram because I do use photoshop quite a bit for photo editing.

 

The Clevo can be upgraded to 8GB RAM 4gb for photoshop is fine IMO I use photoshop on my 8690 and its runs no problem.

 

The Asus is available Right Now HERE!

 

I live in Australia, to import that over with duty and taxes would basically be the same price as buying it locally here with an extra year's warranty and windows 7 pro, a better mouse and headset...

 

Granted, I dont live in Australia, but what sold me on the 8760 over the G73 is that I liked the cooling, and I liked that the system just seemed more stable. Now the ASUS warranty is fantastic, but in some thread, Soviet Sunrise (RIP) said something that sold me: Take the year yer Clevo/Sager is under warranty, and learn your system. If nothing has gone wrong in a year, yer probably good to go. On top of that, if you have maintained your system and learned all about it, you can head off problems before they ever become, well, problems.

And the Clevo is upgradable. Need more RAM? Fine. A new GPU? Toss it in. I like that I can just open it up and get at the parts, no problem, rather than disassembling the whole thing just to get a look at my fourth stick of RAM.

I'm not trashing the G73, and it may be right for you, but for me the 8760 was clearly the way to go.

 

I have not run into any problems whatsoever. The peformance of this laptop has been top notch!

 

OT but cool nonetheless ...I picked one of these up earlier today for Witcher4360 .... These things sold out instantly everywhere it seems ...

 

Don't be a desktop enabler.

 

Haha i helped Witcher out awhile ago since he never moved his M17x off the desk and told him to build a desktop but since then he has gone crazy as you can see ...

I still enjoy laptops myself much more since i like to move my machine around but i guess if your not going to move it a desktop is much better choice in the end ... Ill sacrifice power for portable ...

 

He is taking fine care of himself....I envy his desktop

 

quad tell him you have to make sure it is working first. lol.

 

lol.... I think it is an internal battle we all fight to ditch laptops and trick out (or re-trick) our desktops.

And yeah, what happened to Soviet? lol.

 

I think he's a TA now for a class and teaches if im not mistaken. Which means two things...

1. He's probably a busy man right now
2. Finally hes moved on from having power over nerds over the internet to power over nerds at college.


EDIT;

Yeah just talked to him he'll be back around Friday if anyone was looking for him

 

I have been down that road WAY to many times myself but in the end i always find myself happier to have a capable gaming laptop....

In Witchers case he never moved the darn machine so it makes perfect sense to have the ultimate desktop for what he was spending on a high end laptop...

He bought a 8760 from Gentech the other day like mine since i told him how much i liked it and a few hours later he gave it to his wife to use for internet chat lol....

 

Lol tell him to try being a graduate student ! TA is a walk in the park.

 

same here...my laptop never moved from the desk. i was to scared to scratch it and wasn't concerned with flaunting it around other people so it stayed in place at home. i took my other laptops out in the field. it did go with me to Florida though, but no benching.

i live on a laptop now, but bench my desktop 24/7...when i had my d901c...i benched my laptop 24/7 while i did most of my home work on the desktop..and took my other laptops in the field.

now...any new laptop is considered points on the bot for me...lol

 

Guys, I have recently ordered a W870cu to replace my m860tu. I really want it to be able to cope with BFBC2 on 32man servers with decent frame rates. Has anyone tried it yet?

My M860tu with Q9000 and GTX260m runs between 15-45fps on 32man servers and I find this completely unplayable.

Will the i7 720qm and ati 4870 cope better? Seems BFBC2 is quite CPU bound and I dont know if the i7 at 1.6ghz is much of an improvement on a Q9000 at 2ghz.

 

Sorry to jump in here late guys. I was curious was kind of overclocks and temps you are getting on the m5870. I can get 800/1100 and 820/1120 stable on the G73. Temps are around 79c under load on the core. Just curious what better cooling enables this chip to do. Thanks!

 

Take a look at the original post. Moo has a benchmark showing the core up to 950. It seems these non-proprietary GPUs can hit a higher core speed. He also has temps showing.

 

First and foremost, I would like to apologize for a previous comment I made in another thread about this laptop.....it's not FUGLY, in fact, it's quite the contrary. Pictures haven't done it justice. I just received mine yesterday and have been pleasantly surprised.

 

Congrats! I have been saying this since October. It's not at all bad looking! It just does not have flashy lights and such.