*** Official Clevo P65xSA/SE/SG / Sager NP8650/51/52 Owner´s Lounge ***

I think you installed the bottom panel on wrong.

I took off the panel starting from the ethernet port and slid a credit card all the way around.

To reseat it, I started with the back first.

 

In games, does your laptops freeze for a second sometime?
I've only tried left 4 dead 2 and it runs totally smooth all the time except it freezes completely sometimes once every 2-3 minutes.

 

It happened to me also.

It was totally bent above the rear connector because I didn't reinstall it properly.

Just take off the bottom case and try it again trying to fit first that rear side.

 

So I got a question for the owners: how good is the "amplified" headphone output?

As the P65x is supposed to have amplified sound output for headphones - do you recognise any significant improvement in sound quality, in comparison to the usual standard headphone outputs? I'm sure there must be some audiophiles here, testing that out.

 

I'm curious about this too. Which port is amplified? The headphone port or the digital out port? I get sound to my AKG from plugging in to either one.

 

In theory the TDP is the same... The 4870 has a slightly lower base frequency and a slightly higher turbo frequency. The integrated graphics should be much better (nice point since I would like to try out the 3K screen) and should also be better at running concurrent and parallel programs which I write and test on a daily basis.

Moreover I am not interested in over-clocking, so I prefer a better base configuration. Hopefully I will get it and test it by myself!

 

But for all the graphical demanding applications the discrete GPU will be used. So will there really be any improvement with a higher performing integrated card other than a higher energy consumption?

 

Sure! There are many applications that are not terribly hungry of graphic power, but still requires some. Think about watching movies (especially with the new X265 codecs) or full screen video streaming. Even a linux desktop with some advanced visual effects may run smoother especially when it comes to these HiDPI screens.

If the TDP was 10w higher I would have thought twice, but being exactly the same I had no doubt. It may use more power especially when loaded (I suspect that the unloaded is actually less), but that's the same of the GTX980 vs GTX970: if they offer me more power in the same box, I can only answer "thank you"!

 

Just watched the XoticPC review from youtube, and I must admit, that the fan noise in the background is kinda disturbing - despite all praises about the cooling system.

At this point (13:50) you can hear the fan, but in a decent and acceptable volume. It's OK, reminds me of my current laptop under load. I assume only the CPU fan is active. But then a couple of seconds later another fan noise rushes in, and it's very dominant. Not high pitched (which is great), but still very audible! Reminds me of a vacuum cleaner or hair-dryer. I'm guessing it's the 2 GPU fans. Can't say I'm happy about these 2 noisescapes. Now I'm not sure anymore which solution is better... the one from Gigabyte P35 or this one...

 

I own a clevo P650SE and i'd say that the noise doesn't bother me personally. It's really quiet during regular use, and once i start playing a game like BF4, Far cry 4 or shadows of mordor i hear the regular fan noise most computers do, i don't think it's really loud. Although, when i maximize the fan speed it is very loud, it does indeed sound like a vacuum cleaner. It's spring where i live and the temperatures are around 22-26ºC, and the fans never kick in full power. I'd say that in summer the noise might bother me but since i have a cooling pad and headphones i don't think i'll even notice it.

 

It can get a little loud when all the fans kick on full-blast, but in my experience, that happens very rarely. My GPU never ran particularly warm to begin with, but after repasting it, it never breaks 60C, even in benchmarks, which means the GPU fans never kick in all the way. The only time I have heard noise comparable to that video is when I manually set the fans to maximum, which I have never had to do in actual use.

 

The thing is when the GPU gets hot enough something needs to be done to cool it down. You can either use larger fans which won't fit in the slimmer chassis or you can crank up the RPMs. The Gigabyte may not get as loud, but that is likely as to why it also has known heat issues.

 

@Quikster

The fans only get loud when you manually set MAX FANS.

On auto the fans are programmed to go to max 80% of their speed wich is more than sufficient to keep the laptop cool.

The noise is never bothersome....any sound coming from your speakers (in a game) will drown it out completely.

Videos tend to make everything sound louder.

 

+1 @Jinx, videos dont give an accurate representation of how loud of quiet something is it either gets blown out of proportions or is being drowned out by another noise source close to the recording device...

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

My laptop is very quiet.

When I play DOTA or CSGO, temperatures stay under 60 degrees celcius for the CPU and under 55 for the GPU.

I can barely hear the fan with my ears right beside the computer.

This is with TurboBoost off (capped at 2.6GHz) and XTU -80mv.

With Turbo enabled and more taxing games like the Witcher 2 or Hitman, it gets a little bit hotter, but by no means loud.

Make sure you prop the back of the laptop. More fresh air intake means a cooler and quieter computer. I don't prop mine at the moment, but you might want to.

The Gigabyte is much louder. Trust me, I owned one.

 

That happened to mine when I installed my Corsair RAM, but when I removed the back again and took care to line up where the case clips it fixed the problem. It is a bit fiddly to get the back panel back on correctly. Though, IMHO

 

I've just had to RMA my P651SE due to hiss from the headphone port :-(

Hope XMG/MySn manage to sort it out

 

In what ways?

I've personally owned both, and I am indeed curious as to your rationale.

 

Well the P650SE is smaller and much thinner and lighter for a start and has better battery life and doesn't look designed by an over enthusiastic teenager.

I've never owned an AW17 R2, though, so can't comment on how they compare performance-wise

 

Does that make it better? It certainly makes it flimsier.

And you misread my question (I have edited it to be clear). I have personally owned both machines, and I know which is better. But I'm always curious as to other people's opinions.

 

The AW17 R2 has a locked down, secure-flash-protected BIOS with many performance and throttling issues. For a gaming machine, it's disgusting, especially for the price it wants for it. The only more ambitious machine is the Razer Blade, but at least most people know of its terrible value per dollar.

 

My AW17 R2 had pretty much identical performance numbers to my Eurocom M5 (both had the GTX 970M). Granted, the 980M requires a 240W PSU, and Dell deserves flack for that.

And unless you plan on messing around/flashing your BIOS (or overclocking), that isn't really an issue either.

The Clevo is obviously thinner and lighter, and to some that's a real bonus. Others (such as myself) couldn't care less about size/weight. Not to mention that Clevo is quite a bit flimsier.

I've gotten my AW17 R2 (on both occasions) for LESS than what a Clevo P650SE of equivalent specs costs.

In other words, what you're saying is that for YOU, the Clevo is superior. Fair enough. But for a lot of people, it's the other way around.

If one machine were truly better, nobody would be buying the other. It's a mistake commonly made - assuming that because a machine has attributes you don't like/don't care about, it is worse than another in absolute terms.

I can make arguments for either machine as the "better" one. But having actually owned both (unlike most people on these forums) I know the truth is far more complicated than a simple "X machine is superior".

 

Plug in a pair of high impedance headphones and see which port sounds louder?

 

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...al-specs-revealed.768832/page-10#post-9953466
Read from here until he says he's returning the machine. The clevo is without a doubt a superior machine, as it does not exhibit this behaviour.

Just because *YOU* don't do anything that makes its downfalls show doesn't mean its downfalls do not exist, and they do exist. These clevos have downfalls too; every single HQ CPU using machine on the planet has downfalls. Large ones, especially in CPU power. But some act worse than others: GT72 cannot pass 47W on its 4710HQ CPU at all. Clevo can hit 57W for a certain amount of time on its 4710HQ before throttling back to the 47W limit. Therefore the Clevo is superior in the CPU aspect. This is not an argue-able point.

There is a difference between preference and fact.
My P370SM3 is a far superior machine to a Razer Blade: Fact.
Razer Blade is a thinner and lighter machine to my P370SM3: Fact.
Razer Blade is a gaming machine with no problems: False.
Razer Blade is a gaming machine which does not present its problems for Person A's general workload: True.

 

I'm sorry, but this statement is ridiculous. There are many facets to any machine's overall performance and appeal, and selecting one as the sole determining factor of which machine is superior is, at best, condescending. It assumes that what YOU determine to be this important factor is what should determine the ranking of machines for everybody else. What if somebody only does some light gaming with older/less demadning games - TDP limits on a CPU will likely not affect them, and as such probably won't factor into their overall appreciation of the machine.

The downfalls do exist, I acknowledged them even. My point is that which downfalls affect you will determine which machine you deem "better". There is practically NO machine on earth that is "better" in absolute terms. It all depends on what you deem important.

Opinion, not fact. Your P370SM3 is a superior machine for YOU. For somebody (and there are many) who prioritizes a light and thin (i.e highly portable) machine above raw performance, the Razer Blade is the superior machine. For anybody who doesn't need a SLI setup, your Clevo is not superior. There are some for whom the P770ZM would be superior, if for them a desktop CPU is far more important than dual GPUs. Again, "superior" is a relative, not absolute, term.

In order to qualify a machine as "superior", one must first define what qualities a "superior" machine has.

Essentially, what you're doing is taking the aspects you find most important, and then applying those to laptops, then proclaiming which of them is "superior". If all you care about is raw performance, then yes, your machine is "superior".

The mistake you're making is assuming everybody else, like you, only cares about raw performance. Which, clearly, is not the case, otherwise there would really only be 1 or 2 laptops being sold on this planet.

Anyway, all fun times to be had here. But when somebody passes off an opinion as a fact, it's time to end the discussion.

Cheers

 

Now, on another note, I've updated my review of the Eurocom M5. I received my new unit a few days ago, and this time I got a much better CPU (runs quite a bit cooler than my previous one). My previous unit would hit the low 90s during XTU stress test, even undervolted. This chip runs a full 15C cooler. Got a bit of light bleed in the top left corner though. And the space bar sometimes has issues registering key presses.

I also got the keyboard temps using an Infrared Thermometer, but my temps seem quite a bit cooler than what @HTWingNut got in his review. I'm wondering what the difference is.

All in all, still an impressive machine. Played some Bioshock Infinite last night, temps remained very tolerable, and the fan noise wasn't too bad.

But I am having slight issues with the Soundblaster software giving me detection errors whenever I plug in my USB transmitter for my wireless headphones, so I just ended up uninstalling it.

 

I answered in the quote.

 

Ugh, that's a bummer. I hope this isn't the case for all machines, but this surely makes one hesitate to order
Please let me know how it turns out.

I don't have high this laptop yet, that's why I ask here in the forums. So that people may tell if the "amplified" output is indeed more detailed/better than the standard headphone outputs, or just a cheap marketing duck.

 

If you really care about the best sound quality, an external sound card will be better (in fact I have a dual stereo one, so can cue tracks - handy for DJing at parties), but I didn't for a high end laptop to have a dodgy headphone port...

 

Marketing schtick. I have never even heard of this until you mentioned it. Xotic PC seems to be the only one advertising "amplified headphone output". Which is technically true as you would hear no sound w/o an amp (smart marketing ). But still, onboard sound is onboard sound.

Realtek ALC892
ANSP 3D Sound Technology

There is no "special" headphone output if that's what you're asking. The laptop has 3 audio jacks: headphone, microphone, and S/PDIF.

 

I would like to know more about this what chip did you have previously an i7-4720hq? Did u do an RMA? I'm getting 90+ degree celsius with intel xtu stress test on stock. Bleeding seems to be noticeable on top right and bottom right for me.

 

Why do you crush my dreams
Everywhere it's offered I read:

However, I guess you are right... "onboard amplifier"... omg, then it's the same joke as "SRS WOW HD" on my old laptop (which can be activated to produce "HD sound". It's higher fidelity and louder, but not as good to have it activated permanently). Sad to read, that's most likely the same "amplified output" on the Clevo.

I really thought it was something special, because in most places where it's sold, it's listed as feature on the front page.

 

Get this or some other external DAC+AMP. Or quit being such a snob.

 

There they went - Soundblaster Creative still exists. Cool! Reminds me of the first PC from my father 20 years ago, which had a Creative Soundblaster soundcard. It was by far the best sound quality ever heard, even surpassing all these cheap onboard audio chips nowadays.

 

Yes, it was the same chip I have now (i7-4720HQ). I sold it to somebody else. An RMA probably wouldn't work, as even at those temps it's still within specs, though at the high end. At least that was Eurocom's response to me. This machine is running much better.

 

Adding to the Ramzay and Ultima discussion, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

As a spectator, both of you had good points and counter-arguments.

Personally, I love my Clevo P650SE. It's the perfect blend of price, performance, and size.

 

It definitely is a good machine - there's a reason it's one of the most recommended machines on these forums.

 

Since a lot of people don't touch the internal CPU and GPU and it gives you the added thiness for taking that away then yes it is a good machine for a lot of people.

 

@Ramzay

I tend to agree to D2Ultima...

You are talking about "better laptop" from a personal viewpoint....he is talking about "better laptop" in terms of absolute performance.(better battery life, better processing power etc.)

Normally debates should be treated from an unbiased point of view....meaning that you should leave your personal preferences aside and use absolute truths as your arguments

Argumenting that one laptop is not worse than another just because you don't use/need a certain feature is just wrong.

 

Oh jeez. I'll say this one last time: "better" depends on what you want from a laptop (or on what the criteria is). If you want "pure performance", then certain laptops will be "better". If you want portability, others will be better. Since when did "pure performance" become the sole criteria? Did the God of NBR make this declaration somewhere?

Judging a laptop on "pure performance" is JUST as much a matter of personal preference as is judging them based on other criteria (such as size, battery life, looks, etc.). How hard is that to understand?

So no, it isn't "wrong" to judge a laptop based on features you want/need, because that is pretty much the ONLY way to judge them. How else do you decide what laptop to buy, if you don't decide what factors you value most, then pick a laptop based on those features? You decide which laptop is the "best" (for you) based on personal preferences, which features you use/don't use, etc.

There is no such thing as "absolute truths" in regards to which computer is better. One computer has a better screen, another has a better CPU, yet another has better cooling, another is lighter/thinner. These are facts (or absolute truths). But these "truths" don't determine which is "better", since the best laptop is judged against whatever criteria is determined to be important. Somebody who doesn't need a dedicated graphics card will find that the laptop that is "the best" for him is far different than the laptop that is best for the guy who needs an SLI setup.

Which car is better? Which watch is better? Which pair of jeans is better? You can't answer those questions unless you know what the criteria is - same thing with laptops.

This really makes no sense, and in any case, proves me right. If I can't argue that a certain laptop isn't any better because I don't need a SLI setup, you can't argue a laptop is worse because you don't care about weight. Which leaves us where, exactly?

If we're talking about which laptop is "the best", and the criteria is "pure power", then it becomes easy to determine which is the "best". But last I checked, nobody ever said the sole criteria was "pure power". If it was, nobody would ever buy the Clevo P650SE. Ever. People buy this laptop because, given its performance/price/size it is "the best" for those who buy it. It is certainly not the best for those who want sockets so they can upgrade their CPU/GPU, or those who want an SLI setup...See where this is going?

At any rate, this has been detracting from the purpose of this owner's lounge thread.

 

I also like the fact that most people conveniently forget that the graphics amplifier adds huge value to a lot of people (myself included). I would be throwing another 980m machine in the trash long before I ever decide to retire the 17r2

 

Actually the headphone output on the P650SE is fantastic compared to other laptops I have owned.

 

Well, that's part of the point I've been trying to make, which seems lost on a lot of folks - any time you sanction a machine as "better", you are really saying "based on my selection criteria, this machine is better". The Clevo P650SE isn't the cheapest laptop, nor the most powerful, nor the thinnest/lightest, nor the sexiest. Yet people buy it. This fact alone pretty much proves my point.

 

Everyone has different criteria for what the best laptop is for them, to say a laptop is best is pure opinion. Best performance is a metric which can be quantified very easily, but best is much more general and I think a lot of people on this forum forget that not everyone has the same requirements that they do.

 

Well, maybe it's just that people assume whenever somebody asks "which is the superior laptop", they mean which is the most powerful. Don't know why that assumption is made.

 

I would hope that's not what best really means, I hate those big ugly clevos that weigh like 20 pounds. Please god no.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

20 lbs? Yet you have an AW 18 which weighs just as much as any Clevo not called the P570WM, which smokes it, as does the smaller P377SM-A. LOL the irony. Come on, I expected better of you.

And let's not get into the whole debate over aesthetics.

 

Also I look on nvidia's forums no one can get an 980 to work in the graphics amplifier let alone many other graphics cards either....and if they do its not to the full potential that it would normally have ...justa fyi

 

So... I tested with my AKG headphone and the headphone port is about 2x louder than the S/PDIF out port... Holy crap it's loud! Maybe it's actually better amplified than other laptops?

 

Just making a jest, it really comes down to preference in the end.