*** Official Clevo P870DM/Sager NP9870-G Owner's Lounge - Phoenix has arisen! ***

I love the idea but it needs to work well and the laptop can not be a low tdp ultra thin ......, you get my point. On a side note my son purchased several razor products and every single one broke in less than a year so never again will he fall for their sleek advertising.

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk

 

Oh yes and totally agree with you,would not get anything razor at the moment.There seem to have doubts surrounding TB3 EGPU (still is),so they (razor) kinda semi-announcing it is kind of reassuring if it works well and kicks off.

Whether we will use them or not,options that "are useful" and "that work" are always a great thing to have

 

Try the latest beta pls

 

is v2.2 the latest beta or is there a newer one?

edit: hmm, nope, got the same result with v2.2....

 

hey for those who have raid 0 with PCIE NVMe SSDs sammy 950 pro, can anyone run a CDMark test with write cache enabled? I wish to see the difference between mobile chipset and desktop's z170.

looking for 4k random write, score should be around 350-400 MB/s with cache enabled settings in IRST, pls look at the screenshot below.

I have seen Mr. fox's review but his CDM benchmark is around 150MB/s maybe I am think its probably 1. write cache is disabled in IRST, or 2. they use hard raid so only sequential read/write goes toward 3GB/s rather than random read/write. from the picture I have posted its from z170 desktop mobo and technically it should behave similar to sata III drives in raid 0, those 4k shoots up with write cache enabled.

 

I wish you can contact the developer regarding this as this is a very nice tool and a must for DPI scaling IMO

 

Might be useful for mixed multi gpu in dx12. If that ever takes off outside of ashes of singularity.

 

Can someone who already owns this product with a GTX 980 desktop variant do an Oculus Rift test and post their results here please? It checks if the system is capable for VR
Here is a link of the download for the Oculus tester on their website:
https://shop.oculus.com/en-us/cart/

 

You only need a 970 or equal to qualify. There is a 3d Mark score too. The p870dm-g was built with oculus in mind you are good

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk

 

Just want to know if there are any problems that may arise as this checks every hardware component

 

I wouldn't think so, when the 980 mobile gpu was released into the p870dm the oculus was there and everyone couldn't believe how well it worked on a laptop. They are on YouTube fyi

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk

 

That was with the single 980, not the 980m SLI...

 

Right the 980 not 980m sorry to confuse if I did so.

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk

 

The PM870DM is the base, but the required GPU is the 980 in that base.

It's too bad the 980m SLI isn't enough... maybe a highly OC'd PM870 980m SLI will work.

Please let us know how it goes when you get yours

 

980m sli not enough? It's more than enough.

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk

 

I thought SLI wasn't supported for Oculus?

That's why the 980 mobile was the first GPU officially supported by Oculus, which is why they were there at the 980 release.

Oculus can't use the 2nd GPU - unless Gameworks VR SLI is used - but that is a ways out, right? Standard use the Oculus requires a stronger single GPU than the 980m.

 

There was a nVidia VR driver released that supports SLI

 

The Oculus VR discussion should prob be over here so we don't muck up this thread with general VR questions.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/oculus-rift-news-and-pre-orders.786281/

 

Nobody still hasn't taken the test ;[

 

Nvidia Gameworks VR is for games / apps development, Nvidia added "VR SLI" support, it's not standard SLI - it's a dedicated render GPU per eye.

GameWorks VR
https://developer.nvidia.com/virtual-reality-development

"For game and application developers GameWorks VR supplies the following features:

VR SLI provides increased performance for virtual reality apps where multiple GPUs can be assigned a specific eye to dramatically accelerate stereo rendering. With the GPU affinity API, VR SLI allows scaling for systems with >2 GPUs. VR SLI is supported for DirectX and OpenGL"

You should ask Oculus if their current package, the pre-order being delivered for development, all apps supports Gamework VR SLI, or if it's not all/any under that development environment.

https://developer.oculus.com/

I got the impression the Gameworks VR SLI is a future, not supporting the current Oculus pre-order, and interestingly, reading the Nvidia VR SLI text again slowly - it says for systems with > 2 GPU's... so that would be 3 GPU's, right?

Moved to: http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/oculus-rift-news-and-pre-orders.786281/#post-10172858

 

The 980m performs closely to a GTX 970. 980m SLI performs around a Titan X. If SLI was fully supported it shouldn't be an issue.

However, I believe the Oculus does not support SLI at this time unless the title is a GameWorks VR title. I may be wrong.

Theoretically it would work with a 980m, but they have to put up their limitations of course.

 

Check/Test ran OculusCompatCheck Eurocom SKY X9 GTX 980 (desktop)

 

Thanks man, this is super helpful

 

Confirmed with my new Prostar P870DM.

Although preorders are now in May.....

 

@Mr. Fox, I know you mentioned that you were doing a dual boot with Windows 7/10. I am considering the possibility, but I am skeptical of 10. How has that process gone for you? What wisdom would you share with us on this?

 

For windows 10? Use DWS Lite to get rid of all the spying stuff. Then use startisback to get back the proper start menu, then enjoy.

So my second GPU is trash, +240/+300 is the absolute best I can get @ 1.2v. GPU1 is decent, best I was able to do was +330/+400.

Also I was right about Windows 8 vs Windows 10 for Fire Strike. 8 scores higher. Here's a comparison, in 10 I even had GPU1's clock speeds higher yet 8 still won.

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/7104420/fs/7105338#

Also, possibly the best Fire strike score on a single 980M on the P870DM thus far? :

http://www.3dmark.com/fs/7104250

This is the best I can get sadly with my 980M SLI set-up, might have to wait until 980 SLI is available to bench higher since GPU2 doesn't wanna clock higher:

http://www.3dmark.com/fs/7104420

 

I really hate Windows 10. I didn't like Windows 8.1, but I think Windows 10 is worse. I still love Windows 7. It does almost everything better, and in my opinion it looks a WHOLE LOT better. The only reasons I dual boot are:

1. A few (and very few) benchmarks get better numbers with Windows 10. Fire Strike is the main reason I dual boot. Since I like chasing numbers, I do it primarily for that purpose. I was dual booting Windows 8.X for the same reason.
2. To learn what is different about it because someday I may have to use it whether I want to or not, and I need to be able to provide support to people that actually like it. To my amazement, those people do exist.
3. Curiosity... identifying what I can do with it to make it less miserable to use than the horrible mess as presented to use by Micro$haft. Breaking their stuff and putting back the features the morons removed is also somewhat amusing to me.

If none of the above were relevant, then I wouldn't recommend screwing with it at all. Windows 10 is a piece of trash.

Since you are curious, then you need to do it for that reason alone. Then you can form you own opinion of it. I haven't had any problems with it other than the EDID corruption. It's just ugly and has sucky CPU performance. I've killed all of the updates and telemetry cancer, so I don't have to worry about that for now. If you decide to do it and need help setting up the dual boot part, that is not hard. I can help with that if you need help, and so can many others. Just let us know when the time comes.

 

I am naturally curious, which can cause me all kinds of fun. I am afraid we will all have to bite the bullet some day, so I guess I want to be prepared. After XP Pro, Vista was a disaster, and 7 has been so much more stable. I have personally avoided 8 and 8.1, although I have to work on it for the rest of my family. I was hoping 10 would be the next logical positive, since Micro$haft seems to be the every other version company. I have 7 pro and love it. I am just thinking through things and wanted your wisdom.

I was also thinking about dipping my toe into Linux, but not sure I want to go there.

 

Thanks for the knowledge. Maybe soon I will get to try these out for myself.

 

Microsoft just released this article today for Insiders program on Windows 10:


Today we are introducing a new series of articles titled ‘Made by you’. If you have feedback on this type of content or other aspects of the Windows Insider Program, please let us know via the Feedback App.

‘Made by you’ highlights how we are addressing feedback from Windows Insiders, how we investigated this feedback to shape Windows, and why we have made these improvements.

Overview/Introduction
Windows 10 is an important release for Windows display scaling. It implements a unified approach to display scaling across all SKUs and devices aimed at these goals:

1. Our end users enjoy a mix of UWP and classic desktop applications on desktop SKUs which reliably provide content at a consistent size
2. Our developers can create UWP applications that deliver high quality reliably-sized content across all display devices and all Windows SKUs

Windows 10 also delivers desktop and mobile UI which looks polished and crisp across a wider range of display densities and viewing distances than we have ever before supported on Windows. Finally, Windows 10 drives support for high quality multi-monitor scaling for docking and projection into more of both our desktop and our mobile UI.

We want to thank the Windows Insider Community for providing feedback to help us make these changes. Some quotes on the feedback we got and addressed:

I attached a high-DPI (2560x1440) monitor to my surface 3 - everything works great except Office 2013, which looks blurry - it seems like Office is trying to set itself in high-dpi mode, the result is awful. (from http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...r/8b7ed864-cc30-4781-8d66-3f0445255b5f?auth=1 )

I have a Surface Pro 3 with an external HD monitor running Windows 10. The Surface screen is scaled to 150% DPI, the HD monitor, which is the main screen, is in native 100% scaling.

Powerpoint 2016 does not scale its windows when it is dragged to the high-res Surface screen, but all the fonts and UI elements remain tiny at 100% size. (from http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...nterface/1e858775-46f8-4ad8-860a-9490bb6d825e )

Changing the display DPI to 125% makes some programs blurry or with the wrong DPI settings. Windows 10 needs Windows 7 DPI or XP type scaling. (from Windows Feedback App)

This article covers the basics of scaling in Windows 10, how it works, and how users will benefit from the work we have done. It wraps up by charting the course forward and show what we want to tackle in future updates to Win10.

Our vision for display scaling
For our end users, display scaling is a platform technology ensuring that content is presented at a consistent and optimal--yet easily adjustable--size for readability and comprehension on every device. For our developers, display scaling is an abstraction layer in the Windows presentation platform, making it easy for them to design and build apps which look great on both high and low density displays.

Basic concepts and terms
We need a basic glossary of terms and some examples to show why scaling is important:









While these examples use phones for the sake of simplicity, the same concepts apply to wearables, tablets, laptops, desktop displays and even conference room wall-mounted TVs and projectors.

Dynamic scaling scenarios
Note that more than one display may be used on the same device—either all at the same time, or at different times in sequence. Scale factor and effective resolution are therefore dynamic concepts and depend on where content is displayed at a particular time.

Some everyday scenarios where this dynamic scaling can take place include projecting, docking, moving apps between different monitors, and using remote desktop to connect your local display to a remote device.

Who does the scaling, and how do they do it
Because Windows supports many different kind of applications and presentation platforms, scaling can occur in different places. This table illustrates the major scaling categories:



What this means for the user:

1. UWPs and most Windows UI looks great on high DPI displays and in any multi-mon scenarios where different display scale factors are in play
2. A few important classic desktop apps (and all WPF apps) look great on high DPI primary displays but a little blurry on other secondary displays
3. A large number of older classic desktop apps look blurry on high DPI displays.

What we have done in Windows 10
Now we can talk about the work done in Windows 10 to improve our support for both high DPI displays and for dynamic scaling scenarios. This works falls into several major areas:

1. Unifying how content is scaled across all devices running Windows to ensure it consistently appears at the right size
2. Extending the scaling system and important system UI to ensure we can handle very large (8K) and very dense (600 DPI) displays
3. Adding scaling support to the mobile UX
4. Improve Windows support for dynamic scaling: more OS and application content scales dynamically, and the user has greater control over each display’s scaling

Let’s take a closer look at each of these.

Unified and extended scaling system
In Windows 8.1 the set of supported scale factors was different for different kinds of content. Classic desktop applications scaled to 100%, 125%, 150%, 200% and 250%; Store apps scaled to 100%, 140% and 180%. As a result, when running different apps side by side in productivity scenarios, content could have inconsistent sizes in different apps. In addition, on very dense displays, the scaling systems “capped out” at different points, making some apps too small on them.

This chart shows the complexity and limits of the 8.1 scaling systems:



For Windows 10, we unified all scaling to a single set of scale factors for both UWP and classic applications on both the Desktop and Mobile SKU:



In Windows 8.1 all scaling topped out at 180% or 250%. For Windows 10 we knew that devices like 13.3” 4K laptops and 5.2” and 5.7” QHD phones would require even higher scale factors. Our unified scaling model for Windows 10 runs all the way to support 450%, which gives us enough headroom to support future displays like 4K 6” phones and 23” 8K desktop monitors.

As part of this effort, Windows 10 has polished the most commonly used desktop UI to look beautiful and clear even at 400% scaling.

Making the mobile shell scalable
We have also overhauled our Mobile SKU so that the mobile shell UI and UWP apps will scale to the Windows 10 scale factors. This work ensures that UWP apps run at the right size on phones and phablets as well as desktop displays, and that the mobile shell UI is presented at the right size on phones of different sizes, resolutions and pixel densities. This provides our users with a more consistent experience, and makes it easier to support new screen sizes and resolutions.

Improve Windows’ support for dynamic scaling
When we added dynamic scaling support in Windows 8.1, there was relatively little inbox UI that worked well with dynamic scaling, but in Windows 10, we have done work in many areas of the Windows UI to handle dynamic scaling.

UWP application dynamic scaling
As noted above, UWP HTML and XAML apps are designed to be dynamically scalable. As a result, these applications render crisply and with the right size content on all connected displays.

Windows “classic” desktop UI
Windows 10 makes large parts of the most important system UI scale properly in multi-monitor setups and other dynamic scaling scenarios so that it will be the right size on any display.

Start Experience
For example, the desktop Start and Cortana experiences are built on the XAML presentation platform, and because of that, they scale crisply to the right size on every display.

File Explorer
File Explorer—a classic desktop application built on the Win32 presentation platform—was not designed to dynamically rescale itself. In Windows 10, however, the file explorer app has been updated to support dynamic scaling.

Windows Taskbar
In Windows 8.1 the Windows taskbar had similar historical limitations. In Windows 10, the taskbar renders itself crisply at every scale factor and the correct size on all connected displays in all different scenarios. Secondary taskbar UI like the system clock, jumplists and context menus also scale to the right size in these scenarios.

Command shells et al.
We have done similar work elsewhere in commonly used parts of the desktop UI. For example, in Windows 10 “console windows” like the command prompt scale correctly on all monitors (provided you choose to use scalable fonts), and other secondary UI like the “run dialog” now scales correctly on each monitor.

Mobile shell and frameworks
In Windows 10 the mobile platform also supports dynamic scaling scenarios. In particular, with Continuum, the phone can run apps on a second attached display. In most cases external monitors have different scale factors than the phone’s display. UWP apps and shell UI can now scale to a different DPI on the secondary display applications so that Continuum works correctly at the right size on the Mobile SKU.

User scaling setting
Windows 8.1 users reported frustration with the user setting for scaling:

1) There was a single slider for multiple monitors. The slider changed the scale factor for every connected monitor, making it impossible to reliably tweak the scale factor for only one of the displays.

2) Users found it confusing that there were two scale settings, one for modern apps/UI and another for classic apps/UI, and that the two settings worked in significantly different ways.

In Windows 10 there is a single scale setting that applies to all applications, and the user applies it to a single display at a time. In the fall update, this setting has been streamlined to apply instantly.

What we didn’t get to
We are already seeing a number of common feedback issues that we’re working on for future releases of Windows. Here are some of the biggest ones we are tracking for future releases:

Unscaled content: Lync, desktop icons
Some applications (for example, Lync) choose to disable bitmap scaling for a variety of technical reasons, but do not take care of all their own scaling in dynamic scaling scenarios. As a result, these apps can display content that is too large or too small. We are working to improve these apps for a future release. For example, desktop icons are not per-monitor scaled in Windows 10, but in the fall update they are properly scaled in several common cases, such as docking, undocking, and projection scenarios.

Blurry bitmap-scaled content: Office apps
Although the UWP Office applications are fully per-monitor scaled in Windows 10, the classic desktop apps are “System scale factor apps”, as described in the table above. They generally look great on a high DPI device, but when used on secondary displays at different scale factors (including docking and projection), they may be somewhat blurry due to bitmap scaling. A number of popular desktop applications (Notepad++, Chrome, Firefox) have similar blurriness issues in these scenarios. We have ongoing work on improving migration tools for developers with these complex Win32 desktop applications.

Conclusion
Scaling is a complex problem for the open Windows ecosystem, which has to support devices ranging in size from roughly 4” to 84”, with densities ranging from 50DPI to 500DPI. In Windows 10 we took steps to consolidate and simplify our developer story for scaling and to improve the end-user visual experience. Stay tuned for future releases!

 

DWS Lite FTW. Definitely use that. StartIsBack and Classic Shell are both excellent. The W10 Start menu is a joke.

Man, sorry to hear that. That sucks. Have you contacted Eurocom about getting the crappy GPU swapped for a good one? I'd open a support ticket. Something is wrong with your weak GPU. You paid too much for a nice machine to just live with it like that. If you haven't already, try testing it all by itself in PCIe slot #1 to make sure it's not something else.

Yes, you are totally correct. What you found is consistent with everything I posted in my Windows 10 review. Windows 7 was best in most things, followed by 8.1, with 10 trailing both of them in almost everything.

Yeah, the fact that Windows is not getting better at most things is pretty discouraging sometimes. When two OS generations pass and CPU performance drops both times, that's a bad sign people don't know what they're doing or just don't care. Neither option is a good one. I understand the reason they would try to have one OS for all devices. That sounds good when you say it, but actually having it do a good job on all devices is an unrealistic goal. Add to that the fact that there are multiple flavors of Windows 10, ain't gonna happen. One or more of the devices might work great and end up being where they expend most of their effort, but the other devices are going to suffer from playing second fiddle. I don't have an interest in tolerating second fiddle or driving square pegs into round holes. I can tolerate an OS being great on a smartphone or tablet, but using that as an excuse for lackluster performance on PC is a no-go. I'm not offering them any forgiveness for growing pains, and the new car bugs, or just being stupid, are not going to fly as excuses.

I really like Linux. I've been tinkering with it off and on for many years, but there are too many things I like doing that don't work on Linux. The selection of games is getting better, but it's still really pathetic, and SLI support under Linux is poor. If I were only using a PC for web surfing and email, Linux would be ideal. The Cinnamon UI for Mint Linux looks great. The OS itself can do almost everything well, but this is a Windows world for the most part and most of the software I don't want to have to live without doesn't run on Linux, or it only runs poorly with emulation. You should go ahead and tinker with it, because you can do some things with it that are difficult or impossible to do with Windows. Flashing a good EDID to a screen bricked by Windows 10 is really simple with Linux. If you cut your teeth on DOS and feel totally comfortable with a command prompt, you will feel right at home with a Linux terminal. The only thing I don't appreciate about it is having to do sudo and root crap for elevated rights. I hate that when Windows does it, but I take control of that and disable UAC so the OS obeys my commands without asking questions or throwing up permissions prompts. I haven't learned if there is an easy way to run Linux as root 24/7. If I were using it every day, I'd be looking for a way to do that because having to invoke admin rights to do stuff is too inconvenient and irritating.

 

Does anyone have any idea what these things are that come with the P870DM? They feel like foam - are they some sort of spacer? Didn't make sense for SATA drives, but maybe I'm supposed to use them for the M2 drives? I don't see what use they'd be though?

 

That's an interesting idea, but would they actually do that? I don't know any vendor that would swap out a GPU just because it doesn't overclock well.

I believe they are for 7mm drives to raise them up to 9.5mm height to go in the SATA ports.

 

Ahh I just slid the thinner drive in anyway without the spacers.

 

It might just be heat difference between single card at max load vs multi card at max load. Though a difference of 100mhz seems to be too great.

 

No way, I ruled out heat during today's benchmark session.

I made sure ambient temp was low, ran cooled air through the machine.

My peak temperatures were not bad for the overclocks.

My i7 6700K's peak temp @ 4.7Ghz was 78C and that's without being delided.

My GPU1 peak temp @ +330/+400 1.2v was 56C.

Even if we add a 15C increase worse case for GPU2 that would still be 71C max and that's all peak temps. Although I'm certain it never went above 60C.

It is definitely something else. @GTVEVO 's system seems to score higher GPU wise even with less overclocks. The difference is huge in GPU scores.

Speaking of @GTVEVO , yo can we compare benchmarks at the exact same clock speeds? Maybe do a 4.6Ghz CPU and +150Mhz core/+300mhz on memory for one run in Fire strike and another run @ +220Mhz/+300Mhz. Even @Mr. Fox can join and @Phoenix just to see if we're getting around the same performance. I just feel the machine I have is scoring lower than it should. Windows 10 isn't the issue since even in 7 and 8 it still seems that way.

 

GPU boost 2 uses a variety of metrics and is aware of the power draw of the card, so if your chip is power hungry (even if it is cool) it could impact the clocks.

 

Guys how long Prema realese his bios for this machine?

 

How in the world does your CPU max out at 78C at 4.7 GHz I can't even do a perfectly stable 4.4 Ghz.

Give me your BIOS settings let me try I lost track of the previous post where you posted them sorry bro

 

Look at his GPU temps as well. His fans are possibly blasting, an awesome notebook cooler is being used and his ambient temperature is much lower than yours.

 

Lol I was wondering the same.

Here are my temps with 4.4ghz stress test stable in Prime95, Aida64. Max temps around 78c, delided of course, tried CLcopper, IC diamond and mx4, none of them good enough, only CLU is good enough. Really thought the copper tim from CL would work better





Even had good temps with 4.5ghz but I'm sticking with 4.4 for every day as 4.5 temps were around 88c max for prolong torture tests



And you'll think I'm crazy but these temps are like this even with the great DEMCIFLEX filters on the laptop, but honestly I love these filters, hardly no dust gets in my laptops anymore, a daily wipe of the filters is all thats needed, maintenance free life. Used these on all my computers, pc's, my former clevo Panther, my x7200, and now this beauty, temps without the DEMCIFLEX? never tried lol, but I STRESS, I only use them as all my equipment have CLU everywhere in them, I never use normal paste, so maybe using these on stuff with normal paste will yield too much heat.







So to summarize, I effing love this laptop, cpu ides in low 30's, gpu's low 40's as I type this as shown below and I've been on the system over an hour, played games and stress tested it lol, gpu's are in the mid 70's with slight OC of +130/+250, I really feel they need no more, plenty of power for any game, all this and the above with AUTOMATIC fan profile in control center, with the OVERCLOCK fan profile gpu's stay on low 60's for all games but you can hear them a bit more, some games stay below 60c lol, I'm in cold London with ambient temps around 14c, we're having a mild winter thank goodness!

I think temps are low as I've managed to keep volts really low too. Got a good chip!! And I never torture my cpu for to long, 15 minutes max is good enough for me, temps stay the same though but I'm just scared of dong tests like these in laptops, cant be good for it, tbh if it can withstand a 15 minute test like these it'll be fine in every day tasks that get nowhere near these extreme stresses



Not the tidiest demciflex job on the bottom of the laptop but who ever looks at the bottom of their laptops?

 

nevermind, found it:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...enix-has-arisen.781814/page-267#post-10169982

 

@ssj92

when I tried your settings, I experienced something which I experienced before with Mr. Fox's OC settings on my system, even though the system is stable, it would never reboot, I have to always manually keep holding the power button to do a forced shutdown, I don't like that, so I went back to the 42x4 OC I had before

 

I experienced the same behavior when using static voltage through the BIOS but when using ThrottleStop with static voltage the behavior is normal and the system reboots as it should fyi.

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk

 

right, I'll try that later

 

Can you link me a score in firestrike? I will try to compare with my +230/+400 4.5ghz run in win 8. Dont have acess to my pc now so cant compare exact clocks. You be should around 16ishk i would imagine.

 

the score is pretty similar to z170. i'd assume he tweak a bunch of optimized settings in bios to get a much higher score including turning off cstate so p870dm is getting full performance.

 

Try leaving the PLL override set to zero (auto) as well. After more tinkering, I don't need it set manually (I did need it for 4.8GHz on older BIOS mods during testing) and dropping to zero stopped that bug. Now my 4.7GHz overclock is back to rebooting normally the same as stock clocks. @ssj92 - fyi

 

I would be dropping that pll down as low as possible if that is an option.