*** Official Clevo P870DM2/P870DM3 (Sager NP9873/NP9872) Owner's Lounge! - The Phoenix 2 is here! **

Relax bro ;-)

Im totally with you at this (i quoted him not you), donno how it escalated. It was all around Johnkss, and his PM message thats it. he felt offended from me objecting his info as wrong even though i didnt even quote him, just replied to you (after you quoted him) saying that what he says is not related to pixel response = wrong (indirectly) (frametime is gpu thing not screen, just like how you measure audio dac quality, u use external high end ADC so its extremely obvious, how can u measure a runner's speed? by putting him on the circuit, not measuring his muscle size lmao) peace out.

Btw one more thing offtopic, anyone has any idea about Paypal recurring donation system? I'm thinking of making automatic sub-like donation for prema.

 

520 from hidevolution with the 40pin (not quite sure about pin count) edp cable
680 from xoticpc/sager.

 

@tesla101

The reason I changed the screen from the FHD one to the QHD one was because of you. Thanks for bringing it to my attention that the FHD is 25ms

The QHD one is 5ms it seems

 

That's a great idea and I am sure @Prema would appreciate it. I've never used the feature before.

 

yay! glad i helped
datasheet indicates that aswell, have fun with it
I might upgrade to 4k aswell since 3k standalone screen is more expensive than the 4k. Might aswell go with sharp igzo (cheaper and better quality than auo 4k), interesting thread: https://www.techinferno.com/index.p...clevo-p650sg-sager-np8652-4k-display-upgrade/ Tho no 120hz for me ouch no 17 inch variant, only 13 nad 15.6
lmao: "I got the 4k SHARP display for $130"

 

Not offended in any way.
As to frametime. Only using that to get an idea of the response time since we don't really have anything to actually measure that. The part where you pointed out we need external hardware. Ergo the "Something I was not going to go out and buy reference"
The change reference is as follows.... Since Linus Tech Tips has probably tested what you are talking about, then his channel would be able to give you what you reply-ed about. "Thus giving you change"


Since we are considered benchers....All that is a moot point.
As to when we play games. Input lag is far more important. At least with ghosting you can still kill people.
Because i'm not going to be in a match bragging about how fast my monitor/cpu/gpu's/keyboard & mouse are with a K/D of .38. I would get laughed off the server.

Hope that clears it up.

 

Even input lag cannot be measured by software, unless you are comparing 120hz vsync vs 60 hz vsync, u can do that on calculator (gpu side) anyways. (<-- the reason why vsync adds latency)
I'm sticking to facts rather discussion whether pixel response is important to me or not, especially the main topic that we ditched is that the monitor is 120hz, why have a function that cannot function as 99% of 120hz other monitors do.
I don't see how linustechtip is relevant to argue with, all what i have mentioned here conforms to it.

I think its important to understand what pixel response is before discussing how to measure it, you are simply saying: "I wont buy a power meter just to measure PC power draw, is there a smartphone app for that?"
No im not calling you dumb from this example, but if i were you and 90% uncertain what im talking about, i would always add these word before anything "I guess" or "I think", "Maybe" it just clears up things at the same time achieving humility (which im sure you have, but this make it appear)

thank you for understanding

 

@tesla101

Even input lag cannot be measured by software, unless you are comparing 120hz vsync vs 60 hz vsync, u can do that on calculator anyways.
The first video already proves how to measure input lag with real hardware.

I'm sticking to facts rather discussion whether pixel response is important to me or not,
We weren't talking about you and your pixel response time. We were talking about @Mr. Fox and his Response time. You labeled it Pixel Response time.

especially the main topic that we ditched is that the monitor is 120hz, why have a function that cannot function as 99% of 120hz monitor do.
We never ditch the main topic since we were talking about 2 different things from 2 different points of view.

I don't see how linustechtip is relevant, all what i have mentioned here conforms to it.
Because he talks about pixel response just as @D2 Ultima has explained it in detail

I think its important to under what pixel response is before discussing how to measure it, you are simply saying:
https://www.cnet.com/forums/discussions/pixel-response-time-vs-refresh-rate-299179/
And about 10 other links saying the same thing. Plus @D2 Ultima explained it.

"I wont buy a power meter to measure PC power draw, is there a smartphone app for that?"
No, I wont spend 10 of thousands of dollars on something that does not interest me. Is this not to hard to understand is it?

No im not calling you dumb from this example, but if i were you and 90% uncertain what im talking about, i would always add these word before anything "I guess" or "I think", "Maybe" it just clears up things at the same time achieving humility
Really. I can live with it, can you?

thank you for understanding

Thanks for understanding

 

So friends.

I have ventured a lot from yesterday to today.
Only with Gelid GP Extreme Pads on the Heatsinks CPU and GPU.
Totally sobering. 2-3 degrees gain, but the temperature has then held permanently and the fans remained relatively quiet under Auto fan.

Then I have the CPU (already Delid of me) with Conductonaut coated rather than with Liquid Ultra.
After that, Keratherm Pad is installed no higher than the GPU as protection around the GPU. Then Grizzly Conductonaut on the GPU.
12 degree gain.
Instead of 82 degrees last at Ungine Heaven now 70 degrees maximum temperature.
Then attach the copper plates with kyronaut to the heatsinks.
Pictures attached.

I'm still not entirely satisfied.
But I have not yet achieved an undervolt on the GPU.
Because my card from Eurocom (Schenker) is probably blocked.
Crap!

What I can still make - would be the thermal pads of the GPU exchange copper plates.


Please remember, the warranty for some things is lost.

But I just need good temperatures for gambling.

 

Wow ok...

(ignore lists are great headache relief sometimes)

 

Link or any kind of source? HID said here in NBR and in email that they dont sell it separately.
XoticPC buys stuff from Sager and they said that Sager does not sell it separately.

Reply from HID:
"Unfortunately the 3K 120Hz - 5ms panels are in very short supply with not enough available for the current EVOC P775DM3-G and EVOC P870DM3 laptops. Therefore we could not be able to source that panel for you.
I wish I could be more helpful, but you are asking for things that we cannot provide."

 

Nice job and great results. If you're maxing out at 70°C that is great and I think burning more calories to go lower than that is futile. No need to undervolt the GPUs. 1080 voltage is already too low. If you go lower it will likely reduce performance.

Did you mean "gambling" or "gaming" -?- (I suppose either could be accurate... gambling too hot can be bad as well as gaming too hot.)

 

Sorry I lost the xoticpc one as it was live chat and i didnt receive the log for some reason.

Edit: Btw sager said that i need to send the laptop to them to do the upgrade!

 

All Pascal cards are blocked. However there is a way around it. Install latest MSI After Burner and press ctrl+f. There you will be able to set a new gpu clock/voltage curve which will overwrite the factory settings in the vBIOS. I suggest staying at or above 0.975 V, under this you might get artifacts.

 

This is why I have the 1080p 120Hz display instead of the 1440p. Didn't want to wait indefinitely for a laptop with a somewhat better screen. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I'll upgrade the screen later on, once availability is no longer an issue.

 

Reply to me from same person:

Hello Fejer. Thank you for your inquiry, but unfortunately we do not have spare 3K 120Hz display panels that we can sell. I believe you will need a display cable with higher number of lanes to get the 3K panel to work properly.

With best regards,
Ted K - US and International Sales (+1-562-485-6541 ext 500)

 

I'd wait, buy the cable now (which I thought would be the same cable as the 1080p... guess @Prema was given wrong information or something changed by the time the machine was released) and then get the screen from eBay or China once it becomes available in mainstream circulation. I bet you can buy it for less than half that cost later on, from a non-Clevo source.

 

I believe he forgot to mention that theyre out of cables aswell (?)

My plan aswell ^

 

1 Favor. Can you run Heaven bench in a loop for 3 times, then report back with your temps? Reason being is that was our starting point to determine temps as put forth by meakers testing. Thanks.

Curious, is that panel G-Sync or non G-Sync?

 

Yeah, you're a smart fellow. Nobody should feel compelled to hurry up and do something unless they enjoy spending lots of extra money for no reason other than to have the same thing sooner.

 

It is G-Sync. AUO B173QTN01.0 120hz 5ms 3k. The only 5ms panel for latest Clevo laptops that support G-Sync.

 

Too bad we can't get the MSI 1920x1080 120 Hz G-Sync panel from the latest Titan laptop and install it in a Clevo laptop...or can we?

Darn, now I started thinking about whethert a G-Sync certified Chi Mei N173HHE-G32 panel would work with Clevo laptops. That one is also 120 Hz 5ms TN, but its 1920x1080 so FPS would not get such a downfall and I wouldn't need glasses to read something on the 17" screen.

 

Ok, thanks.
And how far off is the 72% gamut vs 94% gamut?

 

@Phoenix @pathfindercod
I would advise not to fus too much about the screen. Normally, the screen is one of the parts that can be replaced easily and costs about 100 /150 bucks on ebay.

 

Can you try pushing the GPU OC a bit more? Is there throttling then?

Even this is impressive... I might get shot but if performance is stable at this, most people won't need Prema Mod unless they want to tweak more stuff in BIOS...

 

Yea, a "Compatible screen" which is a cheap Chinese copy which does not support G-Sync and is lower quality compared to the original.

 

MSI Afterburner 4.304 Beta is also running and I can finally undervolt.
So the VBios from Laptop is unlocked.
Wonderful.

 

No.
Even original screens are available for that price. Once they become available.
Remember when the 4k Screen was being sold by resellers for $700+?
I got mine for $280 (including the cable, which $100 by itself).
You just need to find the right listing/seller.

 

Thats very nice!
Did you get one without any dead or stuck pixels? The #1 thing I hate about a new laptop (or screen) is dead or stuck pixels...

 

I have those results if you're interested. I ran heaven 3 times, first with full fans then auto. I got a max gpu temp of 55c on full and 71c on auto. I can post the runs if needed. I have a single gtx 1080 with the vapor chamber heatsink.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

Yeah. Perfect panel.
Got it from AliExpress. And they even sent it via DHL express. Delivered in 5 days.

 

Lucky you.
Personally I can't buy from a source like that, because I am very unlucky with LCD panels. Took 4 panels from PCSpecialist warehouse until I got one without dead or stuck pixels.

There is also the matter of the EDID version...most sellers dont mention if it has the old or new EDID flashed on it (at least for LG lp173wf4) meaning you will not know if you get one which works with G-Sync or not. And on most panels (like the LG lp173wf4 spd1) the EDID is locked. At least it was for me when I tried to rewrite it under Linux.

 

Well the seller I got it from, guaranteed there won't be dead pixels and gave me an option for the panel to be shipped one day late, so that they can double check .
I went with the double check and luckily there weren't any issues .
There are other ways to flash the EDID though. If the panel is not connected to the system I.e.

 

I contacted support. What I have loaded is the following:

The BIOS version is 1.05.03 LS2

The KBC/EC Firmware Revision: 1.05.06

Is this the latest / has the fix or is there a different version I need? Support responded by asking if I needed BIOS 1.05.02 which makes me believe I have the latest version.

The above versions are what my unit shipped with.

 

Have you tested things like...
Can you use FN+D?
Does it throttle down to lower cpu scores when running the combined test of firestrike?
Does it do it during gaming?
From what we are told...There may be some problems with the later firmware.... If you can get past all that was mentioned. Then you should be fine. Even if it's missing FN+D.
Power has to do with the EC
The command has to do with the bios itself.

 

I think it's a bit more different than just the gamut, because the 94% panel is also 8-bit colour. The rest of most laptop LCDs are 6-bits colour, including my 120Hz panel and the Chi Mei 120Hz that MSI uses. The only other 8-bit colour laptop panel that was sold in these kinds of mainstream laptops is the 4K AUO screen that Mr. Fox hates.

If the mounting orientation is the same and the size is similar, it should fit.

HOWEVER.

The Chi Mei panel is 6.8ms black to white and 26ms gray to gray... I would take the AUO 120Hz 8-bit colour, 94% gamut panel or the 3K 120Hz panel. The Chi Mei is the worst 120Hz of the current crop, by a rather large margin, as far as I can tell.

No, people can often find the actual panels we have. Most of them are very cheap; much cheaper than rebranders will sell them for. The 4K AUO panel I believe was found by NBR users for only about $150 USD on its own, but was being sold for between $325 and $900 USD (upgrade cost OVER basic panel) when the P870DM launched and for most of its life.

 

Windows Scaling issues aside. It is probably the best 4k panel out there. Unless the Apple ones are something crazy good.

 

Just for the record, its the one without G-Sync, correct ?

 

It's G-Sync certified.

 

It has Gsync.
But because of the bios or something, it's either Gsync or brightness control.
I prefer brightness control.

 

Performance is impressive with EC v1.05.04, which is required to avoid severe CPU throttling with SLI. Systems that have a newer EC will likely experience lackluster and erratic CPU performance and diminished graphics performance induced by CPU throttling. EC v1.05.04 also seems to make the fans act better. My fans were spastic with the original EC.

http://www.3dmark.com/fs/10706525

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/11711825

http://www.3dmark.com/3dmv/5534875

 

Thanks Jaybee I looked at that review and it is a good review; however, I am still curious why thicker pads were not replaced and left as stock and of course if they are compromised they will need to be replaced. I had one of the thicker pads that was looking pretty rough.

 

A hardware mod makes the clocks even more stable but does mean power consumption can go way up.

 

he probably said that because high performance pads are restricted to thinner dimensions (up to 1.5/2 mm). anything thicker and ull have to make do with lower thermal conductivities (in the case of the linked review it was a drop from max 17w/mK to 5w/mK at anything thicker than 2mm)

Sent from my Huawei Mate 8 NXT-AL10

 

Also they are a pain to get and they are soft enough to conform if the rest are correct

My mod can be done with just two sheets of thickness.

 

Ok, got it. Thanks.

 

Thanks Meaker. If you had to replace the others would you think they are 1.5 to 2mm?

 

is that seller still available ?

"But because of the bios or something, it's either Gsync or brightness control."
What do you mean by this?

 

I can check once I'm home.

What that means is that if you want Gsync using that panel the brightness control doesn't work and the display runs at full brightness.
But if you want to use brightness control, then Gsync doesn't work.
Different BIOS' for each scenario.

 

60hz max correct? And no over clocking of panel, correct?

Something i will have to ask before install...
And is that with the P870DM2/3 or DMG? Or all the above?