*** Official Clevo P870DM2/P870DM3 (Sager NP9873/NP9872) Owner's Lounge! - The Phoenix 2 is here! **

Building on my previous statement, take office 2016, both cost and spying, versus Google docs, which is just spying. Both have their cost to a person, but are the extra features worth it? To some they are. Others, they are not. I bought office 2016 professional plus because there is a value. Is it at retail price? Hell no! Is it on discount getting a steep price discount, yes!

With Windows, right now Linux support isn't there. But as Windows goes down the road it is on, people will look for alternatives. Support for other OSes will develop from those that say the cost is no longer worth it. As more migrate, companies pay more attention, better driver support is added, programmers will develop more program support, etc. It will happen over time and Microsoft has telegraphed its plans. M$ had to walk back the per service of office 365 because of adoption and release office 2016 retail, but that caused the migration with millennials to open office and Google docs. They are ****ing themselves by not listening to consumers and trying to change the market, especially younger users which will eventually have enough sway to change what corporations use or what they are trained on for use. It is attempting to do what Adobe did, but Adobe has a captured, cornered market. They are the best at what they do with their programs and are supported primarily by professionals that can afford the programs or whose companies pay for the license so there is no shift. Do you think companies aren't exploring dumping m$? They are and it has started by servers. Right now, the cost of contracting a custom os, program support, and retraining staff is too high. If that ever changes, corporations have no ****ing brand loyalty! They will dump them like a rock! If the public moves toward Linux, program support native is added, and it doesn't add time to do basic tasks (thereby increasing labor costs), you think they wouldn't change gears?

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That's exactly why I'm looking into it, because if the P775 struggles (even if only slightly) at cooling the 1080 I'll definitely go with the single 1080 P870.

 

None of us should have any brand loyalty. Brand loyalty is for fools. And, that's the kind of crap that gets us in a mess. Brands need to have customer loyalty. Those that don't deserve to die. I only hate brands that don't provide what I want. Those that do are golden... until they stop. When they stop, I'm not going to give them any more money. And, I'm going to encourage others to stop giving them money.

 

@Mr. Fox @ajc9988 @Papusan @bloodhawk

XMG U727 = http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...g-u727-preview.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

That SLI config seems to be rather cheap lol.

 

I thought what I saw was single 1080. Since it is a cached page, it's probably not advisable to assume the price is accurate either way. It might be, but who knows for sure.

 

That's a pure optimus solution and that's something we have moved away from on our higher end models.

 

Well, it should be music to your ears that millennials, according to marketing research, have the lowest brand loyalty of any generation, primarily focusing purchase decisions on features, costs, time of use, etc. They have had the cost benefit ingrained so much that they don't purchase based on brand as much, with few industry exceptions. The problem is, even though they do inform themselves researching on the net, not always can they find good, reliable information or their budgets do not allow for the purchase of the higher quality products. That is a sad state of affairs as industries then mistake their purchases on wants, not limitations which is the true driver of what sales there are. There is also an unfortunate undue emphasis on aesthetics, which is the lighter, thinner, hipster ******** trend! That is the effect of consumerism, not capitalism, at play over decades and undue pressure of looking affluent. When form overtakes function in some instances, people that have true performance needs or desires suffer!!!

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This is what im seeing :

 

That is a good trait, as long as their standards are not screwed up. Those that nail both are awesome. Those that compromise are part of the problem. And, that really applies to any age group, young, old or somewhere in between.

 

Interesting. I see that now as well. The first time I clicked through the GPU section had an active drop-down menu and the price was several hundred dollars lower. The selection was on 1x 1080 and when I tried to change it to 2x it errored out. Very interesting. But, yeah that seems pretty cheap for 1080 SLI... I agree.

 

And unfortunately, there is too much compromising, primarily based on the cost factor. I've convinced some to save up and purchase the better product, but the instant gratification, our sense of needing it immediately because of a current need, which is not always a true necessity, acts against what should be their course of action! But I do agree that it applies to all age groups. Just older ones have more patience and are willing to save and wait, not diminishing those that could not save for it regardless of time spans...

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The product introduction text still talks about a 9 series maxwell gpu, pretty sure that's what the price referred to.

 

XMG U717 = http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...g-u717-preview.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

XMG U507 = http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...g-u507-preview.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


Some say, good things come in small packages...

 

You're probably correct. If XMG or other vendors really sell a P870DM3 with 1080 SLI for that cheap, they're probably going to sell a TON of new machines. And, that would make mine even more worthless, LOL.

 

you guys are all wrong, the dual 1080 config will cost one of your kids

 

XMG P507 = http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...g-p507-preview.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

@Mr. Fox @Papusan @bloodhawk @ssj92 @johnksss @ajc9988 @Georgel

 

No ****.

 

Just what we needed heh? No upgrade possibility and now sucky value for our top end machines which barely lasted a few months and now they are yesterware

 

XMG P707 = http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...g-p707-preview.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

@Mr. Fox

 

Those prices are just a template . Because from what i can see they are the same for each and every system.

 

I would wait for the special 'buy two get one for free' offer for every NBR user with one post and less!

 

I would not bet money on this offer ↑↑↑

 

Let that go. It's just a place holder till they can announce cost. Now if that were on launch day, then i would have grabbed 3 of them. 85 percent of the stuff doesn't even have a price....

 

Pretty much, exact pricing/variants won't be out until launch day.

 

I read through every post on all 108 pages and I'm still undecided about waiting to buy a used
P870DM-G that has lots of great components at 2,500 (value is around 3100 new) or wait until the P870DM3-G arrives and potentially have to spend more than 3,500 for a single 1080 but the same upgraded components. Now I will go back to being a bystander.

 

I'd say just wait till launch day.

 

so wait, if optimus is active, then it's bad right?

is switchable graphic option in the bios as bad as optimus? so if one wants the best of the best, the laptop must not even have port/pcb routing for iGPU (ala the clevo desktop-laptops)?

 

Pretty much for gaming. It's honestly not a huge deal anymore, but it's not and never will be perfect, due to its nature. Honestly? The BEST way to do it would be to have a way to switch graphics on the fly, like I have heard Macbooks do. But since this is a WINDOWS limitation where the primary graphics adapter can't be changed without a reboot, we have to use inefficient methods like MUX switches and Optimus.

A switchable option in the BIOS is not particularly bad except that the installed displays will be limited to what the iGPU can deal with. For example, if the iGPU can't run a 120Hz 1080p eDP display, then a MUX switch means that since the iGPU is designed to be used, they'll never use such a display. The M17xR4 and the AW17 R1 are great examples of this; they don't even have their MUX switch in their 3D models. They CANNOT use their iGPU at all, because the Ivy Bridge and Haswell iGPUs they were sold with couldn't run the 120Hz panels properly.

I know not if Skylake's iGPUs have evolved to the point where they can now handle them and a Mux switch on the P870DM3-G will make sense. If they have, then I'm all for one. I lose electricity a LOT in my country (yay!) and it's part of the reason I love laptops so much because I can usually get an hour or two out of them when I lose power (in which power might return), but I wouldn't complain if I can just lose power (or decide I just wanna watch videos in bed) and simply reboot and get a good few hours of usage, maybe with a light game like Binding of Isaac Afterbirth. But *ONLY* if there is no other sacrifice on the machine.

*says the man who probably won't even ever own one of these*

 

D2 Ultima,

have look at this (regarding 120Hz and iGPU) - https://gaming.msi.com/article/a-gaming-laptop-with-120hz5ms-built-in-panel

Prema,

I remember you mentioned there will be a lighting (wings) on the lid and RGB Kb for the refreshed P650/P670 laptops, correct? No such thing on XMG cached pages. But i guess it's because guys are not not done with updating their website...

 

I see. Then I suppose MUX switches will make a decent benefit for us.

 

No sometimes you have an actual physical switch for deactivating optimus. Both circuits can be active, if no 'informations' is flowing through one circuit the performance hit would be negligible. A DTR should not have optimus but laptops like clevo P6x0xx, MSi GT62, MSI GT72, Razer laptops (laptops that are actually mobile) should totally have this optimus option . They have a 'life' outside gaming/simulation/Workstation imo. They can be used for other things than gaming.

I used my clevo all the time during my studies for like 1 years and Optimus really helped me preserving the dGPU (it's turned off) and adds easily an extra 1-2H battery life. For DTR and heavy laptops optimus is not that useful but again, if you have the option of totally deactivating Optimus, where is the problem ? It won't bother you at all if you hate it it's just a bonus. Laptop builders and Nvidia need to understand two non-negociable words : MUX SWITCH. In general : forcing BGA, Optimus etc. technologies that have benefits and drawbacks is a very bad idea. I love Optimus I use it a lot, but I don't support companies that would force it...(I won't buy a forced optimus gaming laptop). But again I won't support people and companies that would force me NOT to use it !

 

I’m thinking about getting 1080 SLI instead of a single - but sacrificing a few other components to keep the rig on budget (approx. 3500 EUR).

Stupid question: but is adding extra HDD/SDD/RAM later on much trickier than the equivalent job in a desktop?

I built a desktop tower a while back - so I’m not quite a total novice.

 

Adding extra HDD/SSD/RAM is not tricky at all.

I would however suggest getting your basics set now and then getting your second 1080 later, if you still really want it.

 

Thanks for the answer. I worry that the other bits (HDD/RAM etc) will be easier to source than MGPUs over the next 3-6 months. It doesn't sound like it's as simple as ordering one from eBay/Amazon.

I"m tempted because the 980m SLI setup is still posting pretty amazing scores two years on. That looks like it'll happily last four years to me.

 

There is resellers who sell gpu upgrade kits so it probably will be easy to get second one later on. Price wise you woun't save much if any.

 

OK so I'm getting increasingly confused about Nvidia marketing ploys here (perhaps it was their intention). So it's confirmed there is no more 'M' designation for mobile card and it will just be 'Nvidia Geforce 1080'.

Is there going to be a desktop 1080 available similar to what they did with the desktop 980 (ie., 1:1 mobile vs desktop specs)? AFAIK all the leak spec sheets pointed to a cut-down version of the full-size desktop 1080

More importantly, how will the resellers display all these differences on their website so I know exactly what GPU is loaded in the machine I'm buying?

 

we had the same issues with the 980 desktop cards in laptops: different board sizes, different TDP ranges, different clocks across various machines and OEMs, as well as BGA vs. mxm implementation. it will be similar with the 1080 again.
also, "cut down" is a very relative term in this case, since id expect only the clocks to be slightly lower than the desktop card, with everything else being the same. thus a mild oc would give u a fullblown desktop 1080

Sent from my Huawei Mate 8 NXT-AL10

 

If that is the case, count me in. So the CUDA cores and everything is 1:1 as the Desktop yes?

Man if it's just the MHz being toned down, that is an easy fix

Great to see the slack being picked up to still cater to enthusiasts.

I wonder what PSU this will ship with stock? LOL...

 

It's refreshing to see the clarification. Thanks.

BTW I too have experienced a lot of power outages where I live and have gone through man UPS's of several of the top brands. If you are needing to buy one again, I'd highly recommend the CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD PFC Sinewave UPS rated at 1500VA 900W. It's been reliable for more than 2.5 years now and the only unit that has held it's own out of all the ones I've tried.Tried and tested...outputs the cleanest power of all the UPS units in this price range.

Losing power sucks...I know...

Cheers

 

Have you tried any APC UPSes? My Line-R 1200VA handles my stuff for the most part here, but it's just a line conditioner. I was considering a UPS for some other devices in the future, like our internet and stuff. But of course if your CyberPower is better than APC brand then I'll have to consider them more.

 

Yes, in fact we've (my colleagues and I) have tested the waves produced by, specifically, the APC and CyberPower. While the [ CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD PFC Sinewave UPS rated at 1500VA 900W] produced the cleanest waves that mimic what comes out of the wall outlet (not exact, but close enough to where the devices it's plugged into would not be able to tell, hence 'cleanest'), the APC devices [BR1500G] and even the more expensive APC [SMC1500] along with the APC [SMT1500] did not produce as clean of a wave. Our goal and mission was to find the best UPS with the cleanest sine wave for our server room at the time.

In most cases any top tier UPS will work fine, however, when it comes to computers and due to its sensitive nature (mobo etc...) it's not worth taking the risk to mess with, "dirty waves," so to speak. This is not to say that the APC' units are not good, instead what's being implied here is that the CyberPower waves are cleaner than the APC.

The CyberPower unit is highly recommended. I have several of these units all around the office and the ones for the computers (work stations) all have their own dedicated CyberPower UPS, due to it having the cleanest wave.

 

Sounds absolutely fantastic. I'll be looking into those whenever I can next convince people in this backwards home of mine that we have low voltage issues out the meowmix and a UPS is a fantastic idea.

 

Did my best bench runs during 285v overvoltage coming from the wall sockets...that's the 'up-part' living in such regions...gave me an extra 20-30Mhz.

 

Lol, surprised your laptop didn't get fried that way

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I didn't know they where having 'issues' until I measured it after suddenly being able to OC higher...

Though I killed half of my battery cells during another run due to the AC Adapter cable loosing it's contact and effectively running a 1500Mhz core clock on battery (my firmware isn't very stock).

 

What region is that, if I may ask? Thats some serious voltage

 

Let's just say it was some 250-ish miles from the next public cinema...

 

HOW DID I EVEN DOUBLE POST SO FAR APART?