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Can anyone experienced help me please.
Im between Clevo 1080 with 4k GSYNC
Clevo 1070 SLI with 4k Gsync
MSI 1080 with 4k Gsync
MSI 1070 SLI with 4k Gysnc
or the same but with 120hz panels

 

Well, that is interesting. Thanks for sharing that video. +5 rep.

So... stock 1070 x 1 almost the same as stock 980M SLI (1070 better by a tiny fraction). I wonder if that holds true with both configurations massively overclocked, or if 1070 will stumble and fall back to second place when overvolted and pushed as hard as it can be? That's what I want to know. Stock performance is nice, but not as important as maxed out overclocked/overvolted performance. I bench more than I play games, and there is no point in running benchmarks at stock clocks... boring.

What I want to now is how 1070 SLI, 1080 SLI and 980 SLI (all notebook GPUs) compare at stock and with their maximum stable overclocked/overvolted states. This will be the defining moment since single GPU setups are boring to me. If Pascal has a lower tolerance for overclocking it is going to be disappointing for overclockers.

 

wo

Wouldnt 1070 SLI be better with 4k Gsync panels
I was moslty thinking
1080 with 120hz or 1070 SLI with 4k

 

So .... now that our existing P870DMs are yesterday's, will there be a way to get/purchase/request the Prema Bios and vbios? I bought mine from a forum member, and while it has been great, it is obvious I am missing something. I have @HTWingNut's review model (4th owner I believe) which didn't overclock as much as others it seems.

 

SLI will only perform ideally synthetically with benchmarking. It's not worth the additional cost.

 

I am just worried 1080 will not be able to run demanding games at 120FPS
How bad is not running games at 100+ on 120HZ Panels
and What is better running games at 40-50FPS with Gsync and 4k
or 100FPS wih 1080P and 120hz panel

My options are
Clevo 1080 with 4k GSYNC
Clevo 1070 SLI with 4k Gsync
MSI 1080 with 4k Gsync
MSI 1070 SLI with 4k Gysnc
or the same but with 120hz panels

 

It's a new world with the higher power 1080/1070 SLI, with enough power to drive many games at 60hz @ 4k, but too early to tell the quality of the 4k displays.

For Windows work 4K on a small screen can be problematic with bad scaling, small unreadable fonts in menus, and scaling down to 1080 isn't as sharp.

It's a tough call, but I would go with the 1080p 120hz for the internal display and get a large 21:9 1440p or 16:9 2160 external screen.

4k draws more power on battery too... and would be driven by the iGPU or gimped dGPU.

It all comes down to $. If you can afford the 1070 SLI that would be what I would get in the MSI GT73VR or PM870DM*, or 1080 SLI in the MSI GT83VR or PM870DM3.

It's going to come down to performance results from reviews and user benchmarks done in the hands of a skilled OC / tuner.

The PM870DM* will get Prema's fine tuning to get best performance.

There really isn't enough info to make a fully informed choice, so be prepared to return your first purchase if you get a configuration that doesn't match your needs the first time.

 

Windows scaling isn't an issue if you change the resolution, adjust the text size, and restart the PC. I ran Windows 10 as such perfectly fine on my last PC.

If you change the resolution in-game or without restarting, then yes, you'll have issues.

 

Exactly...

It always comes down to this. The majority of the professional reviews can be taken with a grain of salt.

 

So If I go with 120HZ Panels. would 1070 SLI be worth or would it cause more issues even if I can afford it vs 1080 that is.

Also between MSI/Clevo ( i have GT70 MSI laptop that I had for 3 years and I havent touched it since then and its working perfect until now so I trust MSI)
Clevo tho has the 6700K CPU. would I get almost same performance if I get MSI 6820 and OC it to 3.6ghz or close ?

 

With ASUS STRIX XOC bios on hybrid cooler



55c max on Hybrid cooler (2x 1850RPM GT P/P) on a very short Firestrike (not even ultra) run. 20c ambient with full AC blasting.


The problem is that I tested the STRIX XOC bios on a founders edition, different pcb. Even with power limit removed, the card didn't perform as well compared to stock vbios (even worse on some benches).

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/4rogmz/my_1080_fe_custom_bios_results/


As such, the limitation this time might actually bring stability to the card. Unless you can keep it below 50c (which I really doubt even with AC you can do that). @Mr. Fox

 

Not sure what you're saying. While I've had the 6 cores in this x7200 at 85-90C, I run pretty much 50C (65C max.) on the 460M. And from the looks of it, I'd say a single 980GTX runs slightly higher ( around 50 to 55C ) when not stressed and in Dubai*. I hope a single 1080GTX temp holds about the same thermal footprint as the 980GTX


* - Thx @Phoenix - http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/clevo-p870dm-g-review.784082/page-31#post-10205268

 

A bit confused on what I thought was the design. Could you please explain that phrase and how it applies to the P870DMx?

 

P870DMx has none of that optimus noob technology

Even the P65xxx series can FULLY TURN OFF AND DISABLE OPTIMUS unlike most trashtops out there

 

That was my understanding as well - a QFHD LCD receives input straight from the discrete GPUs as the iGPU lanes are not physically wired to anything.

 

I'm sorry if this has been addressed, but 151 pages is a lot to read through and I still can't download the user manuals. What is the difference between the DM2 and DM3? Clevo's page makes it seem that only the DM3 supports 1080 SLI, however RJtech has an option for 1080SLI in the DM2. What makes the DM3 $1000 more expensive than the DM2?

 

Anyone want to send me a review unit so I can make my decision.

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk

 

That's up to Nvidia I'm afraid.

 

ok, ordered from hidevolution, not sure how trustworthy these guys are, I guess we'll see soon.

 

They deliver pretty well.. I remember buying the 970M upgrade kit on Christmas Eve 2014, they shipped it out with Fedex before they closed for the day and it reached me on the 27th (after boxing day)...

 

For what it is worth, that is who is providing Prema's new system...

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

ok. One last question. AFAIK if the G-sync chip is in place, the support for the panel can be added later through a firmware upgrade. Will this be possible for this model?

 

The cynical side of me wonders if maybe that's why I don't have one, LOL. Probably not the reason at all... timeline and cost were probably the deciding factors. It's primarily a GPU refresh in spite of the massive changes made to the motherboard.

I'm just skeptical about hype in all cases. To me hype is always a red flag. But, Lord knows... if it had any problems that I wasn't happy about it would be ridiculed massively. The Eurocom Sky X9 developer machine received massive praise because it was worthy of it (all credit to @Prema for the firmware mods that made it worthy).

I will show no mercy for incompetence and have no tolerance for gimping of any kind... always unacceptable. My brutal honesty burned all the bridges at Alienware. I would never go easy on any OEM... no wiggle room is allowed. It's either awesome or it sucks.

 

Prema mentioned this new card shape is what Clevo wants to make standard (in the tech inferno thread)... Do with that what you will...

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

The 1st gen of IPS panels were all 25ms and 35ms because lol laptops who cares as long as the name "IPS" is on it, it'll sell right?

I'm not even joking. But they can't try that crap so easily with 120Hz (except apparently LG did? Disappointed in them). So we'll wait and see about this AUO panel. Not going to consider previous panels because ALL the previous IPS ones were way too high response time. And response time has nothing to do with refresh rate, really... if the response time is too high, ghosting can occur. That's pretty much all. But I find it unacceptable and that's why I had serious reservations about even the P870DM because no 120Hz screens were available. However now both the P870DM2/3 AND the P775DM2/3 have 1080p 120Hz, so it seems 120Hz is a standard for these machines, AS IT SHOULD BE.

You need to remember that not everyone is willing to spend another $1000+ for a second 1080 to use it 30% of the time in new titles (no DX12/Vulkan title that has been launched supports multi-GPU that I am aware of. "Has been launched" disqualifies Ashes of the Singularity). You or I would still get it, certainly, because we want it and we WILL make use of it (I've forced SLI on "not supported games" more than a couple of times in the past), but to most everyone else it's not a "no-brainer" to essentially waste $1000+. I still say single top end GPU before multi-GPU for this reason... I'll even tell someone buy a single Titan X Pascal (35% or so above a 1080) before getting a second 1080 in desktop land. Just because I know for certain that power will be used 100% of the time.

Maxwell give or take overclocks ~50%, except the 980 which started out with a high clock. Their limit of silicon is generally around 1450-1500, and their base clocks are closer to the 1000MHz range. Pascal give or take overclocks to the 30% range, unless as @Mobius 1 said you can keep them *VERY* cool. So if you're testing 980M SLI which OCs from 1038MHz to 1478MHz against a 1070 which will likely OC from 1456MHz to around 1900MHz give or take 100MHz, then the 980M SLI is going to pull ahead. Now the SLI setups are different. 1070 SLI and 1080 SLI will smoke 980 SLI at 80% power, there's pretty much no questions asked there. But you won't get as much % out of the GPUs. Just like how I've gotten my 780M to 1110MHz (up from nVidia's base clock of 721MHz), which is OVER 50% of an overclock? I'm not getting that from Pascal. I won't pull 50% more performance without some liquid nitrogen or something. Then again, I'm not John, but he'll probably use overclocking voodoo magic on his cards and somehow install an inborne watercooling loop that fits inside his laptop with a water chiller and then bench it at 2500MHz and come back here and laugh at me for being noob. Who knows. But just based on what I've seen so far is what I'm telling you. You could also ask @tgipier who has had 1080 SLI and now owns a Titan X pascal about their OCing capabilities under air and such.

DM2 = 1070 SLI, 1080. DM3 = 1080 SLI alone.

Yes, has been done before retroactively on the P870DM with the 4K AUO panel when it got its G-sync certification if I remember correctly.


I've been up for 24 hours, I'm going to write 2.5 books every time I check this thread.

ENJOY READING YOU DENIZENS OF THE INTARWEBS. AND PREMA. PREMA IS A PHOENIX, HE FLIES ABOVE US ALL LIKE THE PHOENIX HE IS.

I should probably sleep, but insomnia. D=.

 

I feel the same way.....there is always something involved with the give and take that the new systems present. I would like to see some benchmarks and stats between single and sli 1080 and go from there.

One side of me says "Wait for reviews."....the other says "What the hell go for it and enjoy yourself otherwise they will be out of stock. Lol"

The daily struggles of life.



Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk

 

Actually i have seen this panel on sale on Aliexpress multiple times, lol if i knew this was a 120Hz panel i would have bought one to experiment, since its relatively cheap. Good this is that it uses 30 Pin eDP, so it should work with our systems using the default cable.
Now i cant seem to find it anywhere, there were 3-4 listings of the x.2 revision last month.

 

I'm still confused. Are you saying the DM2 only supports 1070 SLI or a Single 1080 and doesn't support 1080 SLI? Why would Rjtech have 1080 SLI as an option in the DM2 if it wasn't supported?

EDIT: Oh nevermind - I misread the specs on their site.

But nevertheless, what about the DM2 prevents 1080 SLI support? Just the heatsink?

 

When you buy 1070 SLI, or single 1080, you get the "DM2". When you buy 1080 SLI, you get the "DM3". Some configurators like mythlogic will not confuse you by switching up models. But there is little real difference besides the heatsink for the DM3 model. As such, a DM2 model can upgrade to a DM3 config by buying the large joined "grid" heatsink and a second 1080 (should one be purchased first) or two 1080s (should 1070 SLI be somehow purchased first).

The same is with the P775DM2 and P775DM3. The 1080 model simply I believe denotes a little change in the heatsink. Just that buying an upgrade later would cause you headache by having you buy heatsinks to match and not being able to realistically do anything with your existing heatsinks, etc.

 

I'm only concerned about what I want. If SLI does what I require of it, most things should automatically fall into place for everyone else. Great GPUs and CPUs are great overclockers. Those that don't are scratched off the list of awesome hardware because they don't qualify. Since my ideal ratio of entertainment means gaming <30% and running overclocked benchmarks >70% it's a no brainer for me. I can do that with single GPU as well, and earn points for that, too. I just find brute performance more satisfying than mainstream production belly button stuff.

Sadly, it seems that things are pointing the wrong direction in notebooks and I may find myself left with no acceptable options if the trend continues on the path we are seeing. I will wait to pass judgment until the next product release to see if the trend continues, but sitting on the bench this round might be the best approach for me.

 

See that's the thing. As I said, for you or I, 1080 SLI is the only real acceptable option.

But you stopped bolding my post at the point where I said "to be used 30% of the time", which I was referring to games.

In YOUR case, your second card is used 100% of the time in over 70% of your usage of the notebook, which is running benchmarks. Hence, you do not qualify in the "used under 30% of the time" umbrella. In my case, as I said, I'll just force SLI if I need it... I'll find some way to make things work. But you and I are more like the 5%, not the average people. Your thinking doesn't work on them xD.

 

Both wrong, you buy the SLi models to enlarge your ... I mean e-peen


Interesting note, seems to have a better single gpu cooling on the MSi GT73 single GPU edition:



6 heatpipe for the GPU alone, 2 fully dedicated for the VRM section. Too bad they're asking 1080 SLi money for a single GPU machine.

 

Hey Meaker, What is a AC-200 3X2 adapter?

 

Thats pretty decent, wonder how well the 7 Heatpipe, solo 1080 heat-sink performs on the Phoenix 2.0

 

If it even fits you mean?

 

I dont mean on the old P870DM-G (which it will fit btw) , i meant the new one.

 

I don't have a P870DMx, and neither does anyone else, so maybe someone that worked on the development to production versions can answer for us, how do the new models treat the iGPU?

Is there a BIOS/app switch that can be flipped - rebooted - to switch between the iGPU and dGPU, and on which models?

Are there models with Optimus to utilize iGPU or dGPU, for battery/AC?

If you don't have a matrix switch, or Optimus, and the iGPU isn't wired up, then the dGPU needs to run in some gimped low power mode under battery operation to drive the display.

If it's a 4k display the display itself will draw more power than a 1080p display, and the dGPU will be forced to provide more compute/rendering/throughput to a 4k display than a 1080p display.

So there are many considerations when deciding whether to put up with the negatives of the 4k display to get the higher resolution over the 1080p display.

 

It will be as the old generation. NO iGPU crap. at least for the P77X-xX / P870-XX

 

I got an itch to ask this.

What are they doing with the gimped BIOSes? I mean, do they do that to ensure that no one will RMA laptops due to usage of the laptop's true power?

Prema BIOSes bring a lot to the laptops, not just OC, but many many features that power users surely do need. Thanks!

Don't know how you can get such scores.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Schenker-XMG-U726-Clevo-P870DM-Notebook-Review.153136.0.html

90 Degrees Celsius reported on both CPU and GPU in stress conditions.

I'm scared of what the new displays will be but then again, I haven;t noticed ghosting on 25 ms response time either way.

I wonder if it is technologically possible to make displays with better response times.

Refresh rates, fps and response time can all be grouped in the same thing. All of them contribute to how many frames per second a display can actually reproduce.

The most lightweight term is refresh rate. That can be high, like 120Hz, without it contributing.

Next factors are both on the same level, FPS in processing power and response time. IF the response time is too high, the image is sent to the display, but is never show, it's ghosted, while if the processed FPS is too low, it doesn;t matter if it was possible to show the image, it never gets sent.

There is also the problem of present time vs render time under FPS chapter. There is a time necessary to render every frame, and there is another time added to bring that frame and present it to the display.

Then, there is network quality for online games, that also contributes to the lag. But there are advanced techniques to lower the actual lag, or rather lower the impact latency has on actual activity, like predictive frame rendering and other things.

All in all, the best panel should be judged mostly by color accuracy, color space coverage (E.G. wide gamut or not) and resolution. These are actually very visible and preferences differ from user to user.

 

Would be better if have igpu switch / mux.

 

Not to nitpick, but Rise of the Tomb Raider was recently patched to support DX12 SLI - and the scaling is really nice!

 

$4200 for a desktop replacement or $2700 for an actual desktop, equivalent in performance?

Decisions, decisions.

 

Maybe for some people, but from my past experience, having iGPU switches has only caused issues. They might be fine for BGA notebooks, but dont make sense for DTR's.

 

A question from everybody who have experienced a 4K display. Does a game running on 1080P resolution in a 4K display looks as good as it would look in native 1080P display? or is there some quality loss?

 

Silicon limit should be around 2100 on good bin desktop 1080 with good cooling. Not sure about laptop since no experience so to speak.

My 970G1 clocked at 1599mhz on the core @1.321v modded bios. 65c load temp.
My Titan X clocked at 1480 on the core @1.274v modded bios (throttle removed). 53-55c load temp.
My 970M on dell bga crap clocked at 1485 game stable, 1525 bench stable thanks to prema's vbios.

Maxwell that has been pushed to 1900mhz absolutely need subzero cooling. And only then will voltage response / scaling work, on anything higher than 0c it doesn't respond well to voltage.


Pascal on the other hand, don't respond to voltage as well as maxwell even on LN2. Even moreso when OC gains are already very minimal, a mod bios might only remove severe throttling issues but has diminished oc performance improvement compared to maxwell.

 

I just hacked a 4k panel into my p377sm-a. Previously it had a 1080p panel. In my personal opinion a game running at 1080p on a 4k display looks pretty much the same to running it on a 1080p display. The only difference is that I can detect a faint fuzziness on the edges of polygons. It almost has the same effect as extremely high levels of anti-aliasing - where small objects begin to loose detail.

The bigger problem you'll have is you'll never want to play anything in 1080p, because it just looks sooo much better in 4k. In my opinion, the jump from 1080p to 4k, is much more impressive visually than the jump from 1024*768 to 1080p.

 

I tend to agree. Other than being able to fix soft-bricked GPUs that did not take a flash, I have absolutely no use for it. That ability is also continent on having an unlock BIOS that let's you chose the operational mode. Without that ability the feature is totally worthless. That switch is just one more gadget to complicate things and an extra opportunity for something to fail. Now that I can fix using a soldering iron and USB programmer, it's even less relevant.

Since form factors are all a screwed up myriad of flavors now... can't use it to fix a GPU that won't fit, LOL.

 

The motherboards of P870DM2 and P870DM3 are the same, but I think parts of the DM3 case is different to house 'The Grid' heatsink....will double check and confirm later today.

OK: I just double checked for you guys and was told that I am talking nonsense.

Apparently MP versions of P870DM2 and P870DM3 now use identical mobo AND housing and only differ in shipping GPU configuration (DM3: {dual} 1080), heat-sink (DM3: the Grid) and AC Adapter (DM3 2x330W). So IF you could source those after market parts then transforming a DM2 into a DM3 should be possible. Sorry for the confusion guys!!!

 

I think you missed an important part which suggests they were pushing the GPU - "During the stress test with the Furmark and Prime95 tool, CPU and GPU reached just under 90 °C" My guess is this sentence combines the results of both benches. Prime95 won't have that kind of effect on a GPU.

As I stated before, my GPU doesn't hardly break 60C in everyday use over the past 4 years. And unless a game of solitaire or hearts stresses the GPU, I don't think my use case of running multiple compilations / builds, testing configurations over 3 Types of web servers on 5 different types of databases with 3 derivatives of OSs count, then I don't think that will be a problem for the GPU.

 

Yeah, a lot of users here say they haven't. I don't know, I'm different. These kinds of things I kind of have to verify for myself.

Desktops have 1440p 144Hz 4ms IPS panels, and 1440p 180ms TN panels (refresh here has to be about 5ms or less, but I'm sure it's 1ms). So yes. Laptops literally, LITERALLY, just get the short end of the stick "because laptop".

This is a bit different. You can have awful response time and ghosting, but the frames will be there on the new frame rendered. It's just the colours will be off and it will look rather blurred, etc. This is what I've come up with after talking to a lot of people and researching it.

This falls under input lag, or latency between happening and display. This is actually partially GPU limited, as the GTX 950 was specifically marketed toward LoL and CS:GO players for the ultra low latency modes it had. I know not if this is on by default in Pascal.

To be honest, I'd judge colour accuracy, space coverage, refresh & response times. I *STILL* think 6-bit IPS panels are a joke. But if it's all we've got, I'll take 120Hz 5ms 94% NTSC gamut 6-bit over 1080p 60-75Hz, 72% NTSC gamut 8-bit. But we REALLY should have 8-bit by now, and not in a single 4K screen.

Nice, I didn't know this. Do you know if it's DX12-side SLI or driver-side SLI? I don't remember the names of the modes right now. Implicit, explicit and something else. What I mean is, does it have a SLI profile in NCP or not, basically.