*** Official Clevo P870DM2/P870DM3 (Sager NP9873/NP9872) Owner's Lounge! - The Phoenix 2 is here! **

A new AW? With great opportunities for crippled firmware? I do not think so. Great hardware can be easily destroyed. Dell and Bios/Ec is a big reason to stay far away from their machines!!

 

I was going to wait a year like I usually do before upgrading GPUs. If I were a gamer, that's exactly what I would do and it would not matter at all. This beast will be awesome for gaming at least 3 years. But, I'm an overclocker/bencher first and a casual gamer, which renders the machine utterly worthless to serve the purpose for which it was purchased. Not much point in benching it now, give or take a few points here and there competing with myself and a hand full of others.. For the most part, I've got the scores I need from this hardware and need something different to go to the next step. But, I guess that won't be happening now. Nothing fits, so we're screwed unless a new 1080 form factor and special heat sinks for 1080 SLI surface that we're not aware of yet.

 

@Bill56
Upgrades usually don't cost that much when you sell the parts the upgrades are replacing.

 

Yeah, but you need to understand that he was talking about one 1080, not two. The PCB is too wide and the MXM slots are too close together for SLI. So, SLI absolutely will not work unless Clevo releases a second version of 1080 with a PCB the same width as the 180W 980 SLI setup that Eurocom had my help with. It they do that we'll be golden... but, we have no reason to believe they will do so unless it is for the sole purpose of making things right with us. That's probably an unrealistic expectation, but they certainly could if they wanted to. It was totally doable with 180W 980 so anything is possible if they want to. Hopefully, they will never pull another dirty rotten stunt like this again.

 

You never know, they might be reading this. Companies like them need customers like you. So I would write them if I were you. Actually, I would be calling their corporate office every day if I were an overclocker like you. But I can be a bit insane when I feel I was wronged out of a lot of money.

 

Why not just take the $1200 you would pay for the MXM card. Add the money you get from selling your current clevo. Take that money and buy a new Clevo. Problem solved.

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I've pondered that possibility. It is certainly an option. But, then I would be taking a loss on the sale and still spending $1200 that I cannot afford to spend right now and selling my problems to some other poor sap that doesn't know he/she is getting screwed. I still need to look at the man in the mirror, and I try to live by the Golden Rule.

Plus, I wasn't planning to upgrade right now. I bought what I could afford with the intent to skip a GPU generation and get what's next for an SLI upgrade. Now it's hard for me to enjoy what I have because every time I look at it is a reminder there's probably going to be no future for it. The longer I keep it, the less value it holds in terms of resale. So, for those reasons I'm between a rock and a hard place.

 

Check out the placement of hbm on fury cards! Smaller ram and possibly less space needed. As such, msi may make something that could fit when that hits...

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If AMD finally released a mobile GPU worth owning, faster than NVIDIA's best and it would fit in this beast, I'd be all over that like white on rice, LOL. That would be a reason to turn cartwheels, and for a fat old man like me that would be quite an acrobatic feat. Seems kind of far fetched based on AMD's lackluster history, though.

 

Truth be told, before I learned of the new DM2/DM3, I was going to buy a used P870DM-G that had less impressive specs than yours for 2550 on Amazon.

Edit: What's funny, the same seller on amazon is selling it on eBay for 3k. I mean at least he is setting his hopes high.

 

I agree. But my point is that hbm and hbm2 have to be positioned closer to the gpu and take up less pcb real estate. This doesn't mean something else won't take its place on the board, mind you. But it means that a closer to mxm3.0b may be possible and that MSI may do that for the Pascal refresh/Volta cards if it makes sense to do so and has hbm2. In other words, I'm saying keep hope alive as the new memory may make cards the old size still possible, even if Clevo doesn't do it...

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Dreams are made of a come back of AMD across the board, as unlikely as it is it would be a cause for every consumer to celebrate.

 

best choice

 

Yes, this is a much better solution.

For over 17 years, through incredible growth and improvement in laptop design and performance, when anyone has asked me if a current laptop's GPU is upgradeable, I always tell them that you can never count on upgradeability to a GPU that does not yet exist. Required innovative design changes, power requirements, size, and thermal solutions change with virtually every release of a new GPU...which in a sense is a good thing since we are always looking for more power and speed...which almost always requires changes to the GPU, motherboard and laptop design.

Lesson to be learned...unless the manufacturer guarantees upgradeability, buying on the basis that what you buy can be upgraded to the latest and greatest, that does not yet exist, is at your own risk. In addition, the manufacturer should not be limited in their development of the latest and greatest, by that expectation.

DeeX makes an excellent point. Let's take a $3,000 laptop (any amount will work), and look what it is worth 3 years later...typically 4 generations later. $500 at best...right? I don't care if you paid $2k,3k or 6k, the result is the same. So, over 3 years you have 'lost' $2,500 or more. All the while the $3,000 laptop amortizes at about $70 per month, or about $2.33 a day. At 6 hours use a day, that is about 39 cents an hour...now THAT is entertainment value!

Now compare that to buying the latest and greatest about every 9 months, the typical new technology release cycle, and every time you sell what you have you are selling a fairly new laptop that is still under warranty. You will probably only 'lose' about 20% or $600. So, at the end of 27 months, you have 'lost' about $1,800...but you still have a brand new, latest and greatest laptop worth at least $2,400 9 months later at the end of 3 years, not $500. Now, how much has this method cost you per hour assuming 6 hours use per day? During that 3 year period you always have the latest and greatest, instead of a daily, weekly, monthly, yearly aging old laptop that goes backward one generation about every 9 months...

To quote DeeX..."Problem solved."

Thanks for reading...rant over

 

Only I'm not selling for $500.00 LOL

 

Nor is it 3 years old in terms of the tech in it.

 

And, I didn't with the good old Alienware stuff. Got $650 for the M18xR1 with 2920XM and 6990M CF and $1800 for the M18xR2 with 3920XM and 780M SLI and spare parts... both sold in 2016. That was great value for both of those antiques beasts. The only reason the M18xR2 went bye-bye was horrible Maxwell incompatibility, but we both definitely got our mileage out of them with multiple generations of awesome GPU upgrades.

But, otherwise good points.

@ajc9988 - thanks for the dump. I was not able to flash it, but replicating the values in Thaiphoon Burner worked great. http://i.imgur.com/UURTZn7.jpg

 

@Meaker@Sager
Sorry brotatachip, 2012 is 4 years out of date, brofessor.
All though I did get more....

 

Yeah, I don't think my P370SM3 is worth $500. $1500 at least. It's got a 120Hz panel and two 780Ms, even if my 4800MQ is a hot, leaky disaster of a chip. Plus, 3D vision is still $150 or so in its own right, right?

 

We were discussing this the other day. A working high end machine, like the p570wm, is still a monster in power. Only now is there a machine that can beat it, which means Clevo needs a skylake-x version. But, because of that and a niche market, just like a classic car, the costs of parts have gone up to maintain it. That means, unlike a turdbook, it has more value at the 4+ year mark than a bga pos that had zero ability to even take newer video cards. Unfortunately, just as with cars, sometimes you max out value by piecing it out to the market. But this can only be done with the cream, the classics. And that is where Clevo high end normally took its top products.

Your calculation is correct for my HM, but it is a ****ing p170HM, not the 300 or 500 series Clevo.

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I said the tech in it, ie the main part being the 980M cards which still hold a lot of value. If it had 780M cards in it the value would be quite different.

 

Didn't your old company pro-star sell a P570WM with 580M SLI or 680M SLI & 3930k? And how long ago was that? This would seem to be far older tech i'm thinking.
That's how long that machine lasted and was able to be upgraded. Even when they switch motherboards, you could swap boards and still continue to upgrade the same machine. This is why people are not very happy right now, because they were looking for another machine that fits that path. And the 1680V2 has been around for 3 years. Same as the 4960X. The 3960X has been around since 2011. So Im going to have to respectfully disagree. Because that's what it came from.... To what it is now. Now that is hold value.

 

This is good advice. It's actually what I've done since it's only got a single 970 inside and it still offers upgradability for a buyer on a budget. I've dropped my pants and have the spanking new machine in the marketplace for a absolute steal. I'll take a massive hit for a 1 month old machine.

But here's the kicker. For a power user buyer it's far less attractive if they are investing in a beast to be on the bleeding edge to go buy a previous gen maxed out machine. It's extremely painful.

Sure Clevo are under no obligation to support upgrades. But offering continuity is what will ultimately keep us coming back. Let's see how this new form factor goes... But I won't be surprised to see Clevo move the goal posts in the near future again. I'm yet to see a compelling argument as to why the previous MXM standard was holding back any advance in technology.

 

The chassis did not go for that much in the end, the cards are what was particularly valuable, the machine was sold with the 4930k and Quadro 3000M and 4x4GB high speed samsung ram modules.

The SSDs were sold separately as well, I did not have access to the for sale forums on here obviously due to my reseller status and the interest was very poor outside the forum.

The 780M cards (which came with the machine) were sold just before the launch of the 980M (I used an old card basically making it a 2d machine for a month or two) the pair of 980M cards I sold for more than I got them for (to be fair they were one of a kind modified cards at the time).

The only reason to get such an old chassis now would be for the extra CPU cores, modern quad cores are far better for gaming, you can get far more ram if that's important to you and the storage is far faster.

Personally investing in such an old platform now would make no sense unless you can get it for a song (the price that Donald was mentioning).

 

Without prices on those parts, it kind of means nothing i'm afraid.
And for the sake of the 500 dollar argument, you made more than that, which was the point I was making. About me not selling for 500.00 dollars.
But again, to each his own.

Edit: I'm not here to argue the keep or go or how much someone decides to sell for. We all have our reasons of doing what we do, but I tend to like to stay near the top on tech when I can or see it's feasible. Not really here for the flash look at me factor, but only what I can gain out of it....

 

So i was just looking at some laptops i will never buy, and found the new Aorus laptops to support following screen options.

17.3" UHD 3840x2160 IPS Anti-Glare Display LCD support NVIDIA® G-SYNC
17.3" QHD 2560x1440 120Hz & 5ms Wide Viewing Angle Anti-Glare LCD support NVIDIA® G-SYNC
17.3" Full HD 1920x1080 IPS Anti-Glare LCD support NVIDIA® G-SYNC

It really hurts me to see that a crappy laptop like this has such wonderful option compared to our clevo beast. What a shame!

 

Yeah.. That screen. Yummy..and more appropriate than 4k.

 

i dont really understand this:



it seems slave GPU is heating 90C... wow. on the video at 0:38 you can notice 2nd fans breathing holes are taped in. how can a big company like Eurocom be missing that?


and even releasing a video with such a high temp without even trying to find the root of the problem?

 

What a beauty to watch...

I'm curious though, what thermal paste do you think they were using? ICD?

Also, who makes that kind of mistake? I mean seriously. Someone should get fired for that...

 

Yes, I agree as I would snatch that 1440p QHD in a heart beat over the 4K. Yes, even with my line of work. 1440 really is the best of both Worlds.

 

The P870DM3 (left) is slightly thicker and much more heavy than the old one.



I would say it is a desktop now with a lcd panel attached to it

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I mean, to be fair, P8 has always been a desktop with an LCD panel attached to it, at least compared to P7 and smaller. When you go for a P8, you KNOW you're going to be getting a heavy, monster of a laptop.

 

If that was available id be getting a DM3 instead of a DM2...Right now Im holding off until the gsync issue is resolved.

 

P870dm is already old in less than one year.. I really don't understand why they release this crap and put that is "upgradable laptop!!!!"
They will do that even with dm2/3? Next gpu will require a 400 W power?
6000 dollars in garbage bin.. Very good...

 

well, again, according to @Prema, Clevo is planning to stick to this form factor in the current DM2/DM3 chassis. apparently, they needed to figure out some stuff first after their initial release of 980N. if that is true, then DM2/DM3 owners will be at the start of a new upgrade cycle

still though, at these MXM prices, upgrading wont be easy pickins....

http://www.ceg-hardcorecustom.com/c...mxm-upgrade-for-notebooks-clevo-and-alienware

1060 MXM 6GB GDDR5 = 975€
1070 MXM 8GB GDDR5 = 1272€
1080 MXM 8GB GDDR5X = 1605€

quite ridiculous, especially if you consider that one can get 1060 and 1070 machines starting at 1599€ here in Germany....

 

Maybe it's time to pry off that "Happy Happy Joy Joy" helmet, and get real?



Don't forget, new motherboard chipset Series 200 with more PCI-E lanes, integrated TB3, Optane storage, *more power* to feed the Volta/Vega, +Kabylake.

That's gonna take a whole new motherboard providing an opportunity for a whole new internal layout, plus!! - the 18" screen renaissance will be starting, and the top end flagship will need to include an 18" display!!

P870DM2/DM3, unique gem's found along the road of progress...

Next up!!: P880DM

Spoiler: Or, we could get LOG!!!

 

Yours has arrived! - nice one. My order is still stuck on "open" no matter how much I refresh the page...

 

You need to flush the caches.

Clean format, reinstall Windows, new browser - heck make it the Dev Aurora Branch, pretty tasty right now.

Then bring up the status page again...by then it's gotta be further along

 

Don't be so happy, they will do a new laptop in 6 months p970dm with 8k display 200 hz 4 way sli and intel cannonlake extreme edition 10 core

 

As Jaybee stated: it does not make sense any more to upgrade when the costs of the upgrade (e.g. 2 mxm cards, heatsink etc.) costs more than a new base unit including the graphics cards.

The advantage of a highly serviceable system like the phoenix is to replace faulty parts not to upgrade imo.

If you want the newest version just buy the base unit and sell your old one. I bet it will be cheaper than the upgrade and provide improved functionality, in this case a vapor chamber and 12 volt fans.

I personally prefer having a revised version with better features than beeing able to upgrade. It would be a different story if mxm cards would cost the same as desktop versions, but the trend points in the other direction.

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I've never understood why people say upgrading costs more than getting an entire new laptop. It does NOT. We'll go with last generation for an example. If I got a laptop with two 980ms in SLI, that would likely be about $4000 including RAM, CPU, LCD, storage, etc. If I got just the 980m MXM cards, it would be about $1800. If we subtract $1800 from $4000, we are left with $2200. It is $2200 cheaper to just upgrade MXM GPUs than buy a laptop with GPUs included in my example.

However, then again, your point of selling the old one and buying a new one is a decent one - IF you can find someone willing to buy it for a reasonable price, making sure they won't scam you, etc. That can be a big hassle.

Some people just prefer to hold onto their laptop as long as they possibly can. I have a Dell laptop still running fairly well after 11 years, and that is without ANY upgrades, and it wasn't even top of the line when I got it.

Your point about ease of repair is a really good one, though, and I agree completely about that.

 

i for one am getting emotionally attached to my machines, thats why i keep them for a pretty long time that and extended warranty, of course

Sent from my Huawei Mate 8 NXT-AL10

 

They blocked the vents on an sli machine again...



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New 12 volt fans, completely different from old model
Seem to be thicker and look more massive, I like the looks
PM987DM3 on left



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Re the 120hz g-sync panels. Seems NV are saying they have done their bit? Found this in the latest beta of GFE:


It's all I'm waiting on...

 

Blades are definitely thicker but fewer in number. From the looks I would say the new fans move more air, and all 3 fans are the same not like the anemic middle fan in the old model. I like



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Hey Prema,

If you have a bios you would like me to try out just go ahead

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If you have a Notebook you would like me to try out just go ahead

 

Perhaps when my DM2 finally arrives I should donate the AW 17 to @Prema . There's no hope left for Alienware, except their kick-ass Vindicator backpack

 

prema doesnt need any testers for the phoenix 2, hes just waiting for his own beast machine

Sent from my Huawei Mate 8 NXT-AL10