*** Official Clevo P870DM2/P870DM3 (Sager NP9873/NP9872) Owner's Lounge! - The Phoenix 2 is here! **

Had I known this was going to happen I would have used the money from selling my old laptops and parts to build a desktop instead. They could have used the 180W 980 PCB form factor for 1080, but I suppose they were smart enough to figure out they would have sold fewer machines due to people upgrading their still new machines with simple GPU swaps. I might have been born at night, but it wasn't last night. That's as retarded for the buyer as purchasing a BGA turdbook and as filthy and evil for the seller as selling a BGA turdbook. I'm voting "no" with my wallet.

 

Damn Straight.
I wont sell this machine for sure, but this actually just pushed me to start building my workstation as soon as i get the MXM 1080 pricing.

 

I agree, the 180W 980 fits our machine and looks like it could have held a 1080.

It's like a middle finger to all current DM owners.

I sold both my Alienware M18xR2 maxed out and AW18 maxed out + Titan X to buy my P870DM lol plus a Fury X for the desktop because otherwise it'd be a big brick.

 

Told you, benching is not a cheap hobby.
And I'm not a fan of having to swap motherboards each time something new hits the market either. I totally agree there. 200 percent!

Yep, probably right about it being better on cooling a single card, but I would still go SLI if I can. My laptop lives on a/c. So heat is not so much a factor as the card and bios being locked down to hinder performance. This is where I think we are going to hit that brick wall. Maybe not so much on the bios, but definitely on the vbios.

 

Yeah, I know. I never expected it to be inexpensive... goes with the territory and you just have to suck it up. Paying for upgrades is fine, but I sure as hell don't expect to get screwed a second time with proprietary dung that forces the purchase of new unrelated parts that provide absolutely zero value as an upgrade. That's an unethical business practice as far as I am concerned... an MXM slot-mounted equivalent of disposable BGA [insert obscene synonym for feces here]. I'm not going to play the retard game with crooks selling single-shot laptops. Had I wanted a one-shot wonder I would have purchased a disposable Alienware, LOL.

 

I think everyone shouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions already. The damn thing isn't even officialy announced yet. Does the future look grim so far? Sure as hell it does, but nothing has been confirmed. Time will tell.

 

We kinda have the service manual and even pictures of the internals of the P870DM3

 

@Mr. Fox @Papusan @Phoenix @Prema

 

Somebody ship Ol' Grouchy Fox a 1080 SLI Dream Machine Review Sample before he blow a gasket

 

This is a huge problem. I'm of the mind that if I get burnt I'll never purchase a newer machine down the line. Just like I won't with Alienware. The trust is gone, since we know they EOL their products through BIOS shenanigans. I'd be an idiot to do the same thing again if they ever offered an non-BGA machine and expect a different outcome.

Clevo seems to have done an similar stunt. That ends any faith in picking up a future machine. They can simply do it again. What kind of idiot would I be to get burnt twice. I wish these foolish manufacturers would see this. It actually hurts their prosperity in the long run. This market is different to the BGA disposable market.

At least we have Prema's awesome bios helping us take up the good fight. I'm going to just make this awesome machine work with what I've got for as long as I can.

These guys all need to work out their priorities and pull their head out of their short sighted a$$es

 

I agree and wouldn't buy any future products either from them if we get burned. But keep in mind, we are like the 0.1%. These companies can care less about us. Look at Alienware, they were fine with what they did and have gone full mainstream.

 

what difference now does it make buying a bga trash and clevo socket? you can't officially upgrade and the company block you from buying 3rd party card and modifying the design to make it not backwards-compatible with older models.

 

You sure its bottlenecking?

Itested single 1080 on the PCIE 1.0 x16(=pcie 3.0 x4, I believe) and didnt see any difference.

@bloodhawk and @Mr. Fox I can try to run some bandwidth tests on my titan xp if you guys want to test egpu potential.

Also as for clevo...

The point of a standard is that all parts made for said standard are supported imo. When you are starting to "custom" or "modified" standards, it defeats the point of a standard to begin with.

 

1080SLI in P870DM2/3

I think this should be called as "thermal plate"...or "heat plate"....?

Ps: under load, SLI config draw 438watts.
Ps2: P775DM also use the same kind of card...

Boring boring Chelsea

 

Pre-orders are not allowed unfortunately.

 

We haven't tested it yet , since he hasn't be able to get his hands on the 1080 Strix. But the Core runs at PCIe 3.0 x4 i think. And TB3 max throughput is about 40Gbps.

If you can run run some tests that would be awesome! Since i dont have a desktop at hand. But its kinda surprising that PCIe 1x didnt show any drops. If that is the case then the Core should be amazing with the P870DM if it works.

 

Holy **** that heat sink is massive! And for good reason.

Also seems like they have improved the design a lot, instead of going to the same all flat heatsink and then using different thickness thermal pads to make things work. Certain sections are still like that, but seems to be an overall improvement.

What worries me is the top left section, is that going to go on top of the CPU heatsink ?

 

Ah, so that's what Prema was "Not" talking about.

 

Double post...

 

Holy !@#$!!!!!!!

 

Better CPU. Better Cooling. Better RAM support. Better Power support.

 

^^^^^ THIS!! I would - as many others I am sure - love to see some results. If TB3 can use a eGPU without being too much of a bottleneck that would be awesome and would heavily influence my next purchase for sure. I have seen some benches on PCI 3.0 x4 with 980ti/980 but using a heavy hitter like Titan XP would be a lot more helpful.

That heatsink, and form factor and other stuff that people have mentioned really seems to screw over the entire upgradability premise of MXM. BUT! If some Prema magic results in older models recognizing the card, I totally don't mind using a dremel to create a Frankenstein. ​

 

the upgradability is a marketing scheme, imo it should be called replacebility. My first "upgradable" laptop was the msi gt780, it came with the gtx 570m. Last year I looked to upgrade to a 970m at my local store along with other things like the fan, cpu...., the cost for the card and installation was close to 900 usd plus tax, meanwhile a gt72 with a 970m was only 1700. In the end is it really worth it to upgrade? My next laptop I intend to get a clevo 1080 sli, or msi gt83 1080 sli, and just use it as is, for as long as I can. b/c 4-5 years down the line, the cost of upgrading to the newest gpu/cpu will probably be close to buying a new laptop.

 

I feel really bad for all the people who bought P870DM thinking they will be able to upgrade to next flagships. To me the custom MXM of GTX980 was always a red flag, but i thought the the standard MXM slots would come in handy for future upgrades. Maybe it still is an option and maybe clevo will release some 1070 (or even gimped 1080) in standard MXM slots.

The only reason to justify the new P870DM as a good purchase (if one can afford it!) is that you can get one with just one card and get the second one later when you start feeling that it is getting slow.
On the other one might argue why not get a decent notebook with half the price of P870DM now and replace it in half the time you normally replace/upgrade your laptop,

Unless clevo comes out with the sort of gaurentee upgrades for the new P870DM for future upgrades like MSI did, this model will be a tough sell.

While i may buy it for myself, I would never in my right conscious, be able to recommend anyone to dish out $4000 for a non upgradeable laptop.

 

All true. But the argument becomes weak now.
Kind of pointless if it can only stay current until the very next gen.
There's no value proposition for a buyer. No return on the investment.
Just artificial cock blocking forcing an early retirement for no good reason.

Might as well go BGA, at least if something dies I've got half a chance of the replacement getting upgraded to the next gen.

This anti-upgrade philosophy spells doom on so many levels.

 

Definitely agree. But if i was in the market for a new flagship. I would definitely go for a Clevo system.

But since i am for sure not going to buy another one, gonna ride the current one out till it lasts. And build a 36 Core Workstation on the side.

I do under stand the frustration as well, but if you look at it from the business pov, they are in the market to make money.

Oh an this move, might as well start the death the of socketed processors in laptops. The more the prospective buyers see this thread, the easily they will stay away from Clevo high end systems, to avoid getting burnt.

 

Don't lose hope.

 

Yeah. Part of me says that too. They'd do it again. But I'm happy enough to ride this out and try and get a single 1080 in. Otherwise hopefully 1070 sli. Life could be worse.
Warning bells have gone off, Clevo.. Warning bells have gone off.

 

True, but its the onset of the mass anger. It will simmer down after a bit for sure. But none of that justifies the dick move.

 

I would wait until things are clearer before jumping to conclusions. (Maybe I should set this post to repeat every 2 hours).

 

The only difference I really see here is the 6700K being much better than the 6820HK, honestly.

If we can't upgrade, then the only benefit is part interchange-ability. For warranty/etc purposes on a GPU, this is great, since you don't lose your whole board/CPU. But for example the GT72 cooled the CPU pretty well and the GPUs it had pretty well too. The RAM support is about the same. Power support doesn't directly require the socketed chips. Right now, the only selling point I'm going to be recommending people (until proven otherwise) is that the CPUs in the sockets are much better in terms of speeds, and that you can upgrade from a lower end GPU to a higher end one.

I dislike everything being soldered on principle, and because nobody would stand for it on a desktop, but I cannot sit here and tell someone who doesn't care for a CPU beyond say.... a 6820HK, that they should spend $300+ more for sockets, when they can't even expect upgrades. It's the same reason I often find myself forced to tell people to buy nVidia cards for performance. I couldn't tell someone to buy a Fury X over a 980Ti. I couldn't tell someone to buy a 390X over a 980 if they found a 980 for $430 or so (which happened sometimes). I couldn't tell someone outside of the US to buy a 390X if it costed the same as a 980 either, because AMD cards are MUCH more expensive outside of the US, moreso than nVidia cards. If there's little to not benefit for all the extra $$ then what can I do?

Now if the prices went down and the benefits were worth it... that's a different story. If there's a $300 markup for the same specs with sockets, but the socketed machine has a 120Hz screen and the cooling is MUCH better and the card is maybe superclocked? Cool. I understand that a bigger, beefier system will generally cost more, but I've just build up a P650RG with a 6820HK and 32GB of RAM and an OS and 3 years warranty for $2556 on HIDevolution. I then built up a P750DM with the 6700K but the other specs the same and it's $2931... and it's not even using the 330W adapter (that sends it to $2996) and it has worse battery life (as no MUX switch). It's a tough sell. A REALLY tough sell. Someone has to really want modularity and a good CPU for me to give this a good sell. I mean I'm pretty good at informing people that a good CPU is a very good idea, but still.

 

i'd like to stay positive thanks

 

I don't think it'd only be clevo's fault if you won't be able to upgrade your P870DM...
the 1070/1080 appear to be custom MXM boards : if only screw holes changed than yes this would be horribly wrong..

 

Since nVidia didn't release reference MXM boards for Pascal, if Clevo and MSI didn't make reference-style MXM cards, it was up to them. I think something like the 1080 being out-of-spec for size might be a bit more on the unavoidable side, but anything else is really them.

Either way, I'm not trying to shoot down anyone. I'm just being fair all round. If something needs praising it'll be done. If something needs criticism then it'll be done. I consider myself an enthusiast, but I can't ignore everyone's views. As long as it isn't downright idiotic, I'll consider it and try to see from their point of view. Otherwise I can't be fair.

 

There is so much picture leaks
And even that giant "heat plate" is revealed
Why isn't there a benchmark yet
@GenTechPC
Any clues in release date?


Edit : why isn't there benchmark of mobile 1080 single and in SLI
@Cloudfire where are you the king of leaks

 

This was mostly due to NVIDIA and believe me the 'big guys' where literally fighting for us behind the scenes:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...notebook-thoughts.790357/page-2#post-10236519

If MSI and CLEVO wouldn't have taken initiative and designed their own cards (which cost them a small fortune), MXM would already be dead by now and even this refresh would be BGA like 'ALL' other companies are going to offer them to us.

Yeah, I can't be the source of of these leaks, they would kill me.
Already talking too much in order to keep the vibe positive...but luckily there are always our 'Chinese' brothers who don't give a '....' about NDAs.


EDIT: Here some good news to cheer you up:

The new 120Hz FHD screen is an AHVA (IPS-ish) screen and can also be used to upgrade current models using the existing cable.

 

Okay, well that's good to know, at least. I feel better directing the annoyance toward the jolly green rip-off-ers.

Isn't that screen also 94% NTSC gamut and 5ms response time? That's pretty great news. It should have gsync certification too, right? I bet all the DM owners would love having one of those as an upgrade =D.

 

Is that 120hz, 5ms screen gonna be standard for all the high end notebooks?


Boring boring Chelsea

 

I doubt it. Probably a paid add-on for most. But it'd be a good option for most of the high end ones.

 

As usual with Clevo there will be a whole bunch of official and unofficial screen options and each reseller decides their own standard configuration based on their importers choices as well as their own sourcing of parts.

 

1070 is a no go in any 15" right?
Current gen I mean.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Is it just me or the Nvidia GX104 core always gets higher TDP every year?
Full GK104 (gtx 780M/880M) was inside clevo/msi 15 inchers
It was always like that (in previous gen) until maxwell

 

My opinion, this cooling system is “Vapor Chamber” - the best system in the world.

Spoiler: vapor chamber

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...00m-series-gpus.763032/page-258#post-10256577
http://cmu.coolermaster.com/vapor-chamber/
http://celsiainc.com/blog-heat-pipes-and-vapor-chambers-whats-the-difference/

 

No offense Prema, but whichever way, for people like me that came to Clevo for upgradable laptops, these leaks have made me feel massively screwed over.. There seems to be nothing for P771ZM owners and precise reason why I bought it was due to being able to upgrade GPU.. And yes, this has clearly shown the battle was lost.. Now if the war is lost, we will all have to love BGA.. Especially for people like me who have no space in our small flats/ rooms for desktops..

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

 

We have tested a MSI 1070 in a Clevo P750DM...so stop whining and wait for NVIDIA to pull the curtain.

 

Will a MSI 1080 work? The above is good news but a 1080

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

 

Praise the lord

 

I feel like with Pascal 15" owners are getting screwed...

 

I seldom say never, but I'm going to have to on the bolded part. I can't and won't go there. I had rather die as a martyr than surrender my soul or open my wallet to the pagan BGA gamer-boy altar of filth... their kingdom is the bastion of infidels and harlots. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

BGA is only acceptable for tablets, phablets, smartphones, "connected" home appliances and $150 web browsing jokebooks... you know, the kind of overhyped stuff that tickles the privates of the IOT junkies of the world and the lovers of cheap thrills.

Enjoy the lyrics...

 

Going with 1070 is only good news if you're content with sitting in the second fiddle chair and your interests are limited to playing games.