*** Official Clevo P870DM2/P870DM3 (Sager NP9873/NP9872) Owner's Lounge! - The Phoenix 2 is here! **

OK. Thanks! I see the difference, it truly was a "T", and different from the new grid of the P870DM3. So, can a reseller (or someone who's purchased) comment on the cooling for:

a) P775DM3 (1080 GTX Desktop)
b) P870DM2 (single 1080GTX Desktop or single 1070GTX Desktop)
c) P870DM2 (1070GTX non-Desktop SLI)

What I'm curious about is if the cooling for A and B are the same.

I would ask about the P870DM3 in a single card config, but that does not appear to be available for sale at this time.

[Edit]
@bloodhawk, are you saying the P870DM2 comes with the "T" regardless of single (1070 GTX Desktop or 1080 GTX Desktop) or SLI (1070 GTX non-Desktop) config? Since the P870DM3 only comes with 1080 GTX Desktop SLI right now, it should ship with the new grid.

TIA

 

Prema Partner compensate me for the customizations! Well, except for an 'ex-partner'...

I neither dictate a shop to charge extra or to make it their free default option, nor does it make any difference to me if they sell none or a million units...
They are doing their own math in order to have your OCing needs all covered by in-house warranties.

 

You should consider ordering from Sager if the bio's will not benefit you then. Many companies to choose from, it's all your choice on what's more important to you.

 

I'm still trying to work out a deal with HID so all hope is not lost, YET...

 

Out of curiosity who would ex-partners be so I know not to buy from them?

 

The T-Heatsink like the one for the 980 DT is for the Single 1080 DM2. I think for now the SLI is limited to DM3 and there is an option to get individual heat sinks for the each of the cards as well, like the 980M heat sinks.

 

Sorry, I'll clean up the post. I'm referring to the 1070 non-Desktop GTX SLI in the P870DM2.

 

Honestly, given that Sager is the main importer of the US I would not be surprised if HID buy from them and the added 300$ is just their small profit margin of which a part goes to Prema and a part is the comprehensive warranty they offer, the rest is what they keep for themselves.

 

Ah, that probably uses the heat sinks like the 980M's. I haven't seen any info if the 1070's are can be used with the Vapor Chamber.

 

The 870DM3 is *almost* the same as the DM2, because only the DM3 has the vapor chamber cooling solution.

 

I know Eurocom and Prostar (where my last laptop came from) are north American distributors as well. As such, and with proximity, they may get them from Prostar...

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Nope, Sager gets it from Clevo (might be wrong, but this used to be the case). Same for HIDE , and a lot of other companies. Not everything is sourced directly from Clevo and there is an internal network of things (mainly Eurocom and Prostar). But ultimately everything originates from Clevo.

EDIT : Ninja'd by @ajc9988

 

Ha, this was just my speculation, but I read in the Clevo Reseller Guide thread that Sager is the largest Clevo importer of the U.S.
@bloodhawk that's what I meant by "importer", that Sager directly imports from Clevo.

 

They, I believe, are the third distributor. All resellers in north America pretty much get their units from the distributors. The distributors get theirs directly from Clevo. Only one is a Prema partner (Eurocom), which means the other resellers using Prema's bios may purchase from that distributor, but I cannot confirm that... Who knows. But those three are the hubs...

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The BIOS's are vendor specific. They dont come from one place, specially since every one seems to have their own variant, and only Prema modifies his stuff.

 

Not quite. Clevo has the stock bios. Almost everyone uses this stock bios. Sagger used to use a modified bios and ec, the ec being the cross-flash bricking issue. Mythlogic pays for a modified bios. Eurocom and HID I believe get the same fully unlocked bios. Europe may get a different version due to ec ratings, but I doubt that. Just not ruling it out because my knowledge is limited. Now each vendor injects their own splash screen, yes, but the rest is the same unless modified, I believe.

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Because it is not just an ordinary *bios* but the only actual unlocked one. If you don't bother with over clocking and are fine with a completely locked bios that merely let's you change the date, by all means go for the cheapest option. For many people though, Prema's hard work to unlock the bios is highly valuable. It's like you buy a Ferrari but you can't open the engine hood.

 

What gets to me is people trying to save a few bucks here and there when they are buying such a beast of a machine geared towards enthusiasts.

When you go to buy a Mercedes, you don't sit and bargain like a cheapo begging the showroom to give you a discount. You know you're going for a premium product with premium features so you actually pay the extras to get all the options available. Heh. Prema's BIOS magically converts these laptops from imprisoned Jaguars who don't have a clue (stock BIOS which cripples performance and has 0 features to activate/disable certain options) into roaring lions ready to plunge at their next prey. (hint, next prey = @Papusan )

If one wants to bargain and squeeze every penny since he can't see the value and endless capabilities of this machine. I suggest he goes with another laptop that suits his financial requirements.

Just my 2 cents

 

I disagree (at least before the video card thing). If you plan a 4-6 year ownership, upgrading along the way is viable. But, without potentially being able to get the better firmware later, don't skimp there. I understand a budget. Buy the ram and storage on your own. That saves $60-300 over the premium for through the vendors. That's fine. But on firmware, it has become non-negotiable, I must have an unlocked machine!!!

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Correct about the stock BIOS. But all the unlocking/modding and Customizations are done by Prema as per vendor requests.

 

Ok, that's what you meant! You are absolutely correct in that! And buying a fully unlocked machine rather than mostly is worth a lot, although both have their value and either is better than stock!

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Just curious are there Premo guides for dummies available. This dummy is looking at laptops and have been on a few resellers that use Premo's work.

Say I did get one from there so I'd have more options.. Are there any guided that could tell this monkey what to change for decent improvements ?


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Check the videos here http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/clevo-p870dm-n00bies-guide.789463/

 

We completely understand that we offer a different product than Sager does. It has far more capabilities than the Sager version, but you have made it clear that you don’t need or want them. We have no problem with that.


The only thing I don’t get, is why you would make such a fuss of it at Notebookreview Forum. If someone has a product that will satisfy you, then just buy it. We offer a superior product, at least for those users who understand it and can take advantage of it, and we charge more for it.


We are not ashamed of that. We take more risk providing the warranty for our Custom Prema BIOS and vBIOS product since it is not supported by Clevo. It takes more careful production and more intense testing to produce a superior product. Anyone in this business would be foolish to try to compete purely on price given these circumstances.


We know you will enjoy your Sager product. However should your needs and demands of a laptop ever increase to the level that can only be provided by one with the Custom Prema BIOS & vBIOS, we will be happy to serve you.

 

Here's another couple videos from Mr. Fox.

https://biosmods.wordpress.com/2016/08/22/ocu/

 

Anyone managed to get a P870 with 1080 and review it so far? I haven't seen anything, but notebookcheck have posted a news page about P870 with Pascal, si I guess they are hinting on a new review

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Euroco...otebook-with-desktop-components.172126.0.html


But until then, I'm really curious on what findings everybody has.

 

Question for the experts here like Fox, Chronokiller, Prema etc. have you ever considered do an expert challenge where you list the system you would build/buy if you had. $1600, $2000 or let's say $2600?

I think people would get a kick out of seeing your recommendations.


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Well, I love luxury items but I am a cheapo when it comes to certain things. None of which is tech. Most of the tech I buy I normally end up selling or giving away a little over a year from the date of purchase (excluding smartphones). I do agree with the majority here. It's like buying an unlock phone. You are going to pay more for it because you can do more with it.

With all of that said, I haven't tried Prema's Bios yet (I'm new to Clevo) but I am excited to try them when I get the chance.

@Donald@HIDevolution I wouldn't worry about what the guy says. Most of us are in your corner and at least for me, when you give me that call that the 1080p 120hz G-Sync panel is available, you will have another lifetime customer.

I added my two cents. Back to my argument/debate on another site.

 

Lol, I think if Fox gave you his recommendations, the biggest feature will be the ability to upgrade your rig beyond 3 months of ownership.

 

@Donald@HIDevolution
I wouldn't be concerned, most users landing in this specific thread are actually aware and appreciative of the extra service your company offers. Those who don't usually don't take the effort to follow a thread like this anyway.

 

I think Sager are $300 cheaper because they launched their P870DM with some sale or something..

Also if Hide doesn't work for you, try Mythologic.. I know they are slower etc to deliver the laptop but if you can wait, for probably around $150 more (I think) you can get the same notebook there with prema BIOS etc.... I also know that they are more favourable when it comes to price-matching.. Worth giving it a shot..

https://www.mythlogic.com/configure.php?id=186

 

And here's mine;
When I bought my M5 back in 2013 the sticker was $129k. Do you think I paid anywhere near that? No, I didn't. So if you want to be the sheep going into a Mercedes dealership and paying full price you go right ahead... Wealthy people don't become (and stay) wealthy by paying full price....

I have a budget set aside for this particular toy and another vendor can meet that budget. I came on here and was messaged by folks telling me to get the premo BIOS. Obviously I didn't know enough about it in the beginning (probably still not) but was doing what I could to make it happen at my budget.

As I told Tim from HID if I had a sales person lose a $3k sale over a 10% discount I would send them back to school. I did write Tim back to see if he would compromise at 5% and no go. That is business and I don't hold a grudge. His post on here was smug but he obviously has allot of folks on here supporting him so more power to him.

I found another path to explore so hopefully I can move forward with a different vendor that doesn't cause a stressful buying experience.

 

LOL, its actually "Prema" and not "Premo"
And to answer you question bluntly, non there are no noob guides comparing Prema's bios with stock. You can get info regarding Prema's bios in links @Phoenix and @Chronokiller posted. To put it very simply, Prema's bios gives you the same options as available at high end desktops. But you will have to judge for yourself if these feature are useful to you or not.

 

@Phoenix here's the drivers https://www.dropbox.com/sh/c8wpp4qwp3ocrbo/AADtQZryyqybdREtKrrkzb3ta?dl=0

shoutout to Zoltan from hidevolution, absolute lifesaver, helped me with ssd installation and drivers

 

The margin for small companies is very thin. 10% discount on computers and technology nowadays is very hard if not impossible for most companies. Markup is not what most people think on computers. I owned a "computer store" from 95-2000. This was back in the day when building a computer for someone was the norm. Big box and Internet sales for $299 computers drove the local computer stores out of business. Believe it or not HID is not retiring off of selling 50 laptops. I would be you Sagers comiuter sales are much higher than HID. The volume they push because of other resellers reselling Sagers affords them to have slightly lower price. But at the same time you are not getting the same machine even if the Clevo model number is the same. HID provides a more personalized service than Sager with mods and options a higher end enthusiast is after.
If you bought a 129k car but your worried about+300 premium for higher end machine? Surely you know the value of paying for a premium product then?

 

@Phoenix actually has a YouTube video showing the @Prema bio's features vs the standard bio's I believe.

*edit

 

Let alone one is already paying a few thousand dollars for a DTR, so a few hundred bucks (for something priceless) shouldn't even be in the conversation; just as you'll never hear someone buying a Mercedes S class complaining about gas prices. It's just one of those things...this is not to discount the idea of seeking a good deal though. If a company is overcharging for something and not budging then that's another issue in itself.

As long as Prema is benefiting I'm happy and I'll support his recommendations of resellers.

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If you owned a business surely you know the difference between "your" & "you're" lol sorry I had to. We all need to lighten up and move on.

 

Surely I'm not proof reading every post I put on the internet either.

 

I am in the exact same situation with HIDevolution. In fact, I called them directly this morning and spoke with sales, and we swapped a few emails throughout the day. They actually sent a copy/paste of the post you referred to as "smug" (I called it condescending) to my personal email address and accused me of being you.

If they're going to price themselves out of competition with a custom BIOS, they need to do a better job of selling it. In addition, one sales rep told me to reach out to the sales manager to discuss a price adjustment more competitive with my existing order from LPC (my system back ordered there) with HID's sales manager, then later sent ANOTHER condescending email explaining why they don't price match. Screw these guys.

By the way, I ordered my 970m system from them last Spring (yeah, returning customer!) and they did a totally half assed job of reassembling after making my requested upgrades. The bottom cover was not fully attached, the optical drive was neither flush with the chassis nor screwed in all the way, and there was a loose screw rattling around inside that I never actually figured out where it went. I don't know whether to blame MSI or HID for the issues I had with that system, but I ended up buying an Alienware with a 980m last December anyway.

I'll just wait on my back ordered system from LPC Digital. While I'm chomping at the bit to play with Pascal, I'm happy with my ALienware for now anyway.

 

I know where you're coming from, I also negotiated quite a bit on the price when I bought my (used) car. Yet, to be fair car profit margins are a lot higher than "single digit profit margins" (quoting a Clevo reseller at the TI forums) for Clevo notebooks. Some offer a NBR discount, though.

While Clevo resellers offer the same base model, the actual configuration possibilities, services and customer care differs a lot.
Whether full BIOS control and other extras you get from buying from a Prem"A" partner is worth the markup is up to you, I can certainly recommend it.

 

Great! There are a lot of vendors selling this model, so establishing a relationship with a reseller you can work with (and trust) will be paramount going forward.

Pls stay in touch with this community, and share your experiences whatever you decide.

 

Im not sure what the whole fuss is about, its rather simple -

Go with HIDEvolution if you want Prema BIOS and great customer service and you pay a bit more.
or
Buy from Sager/XoticPC/LPC/ etc, if you dont need the custom BIOS and want great customer service (i haven't dealt with them personally, but friends have had a great experience with XOTICPC) , and you pay a bit less.

You have no idea how many clowns they have had to deal with recently. And people coming here and calling Phoenix out on "owning" HIDEvolution or being their employee.

 

Thank you for sharing this. I bought my last Clevo from Xotic PC and they sold me the same "best service in the land pitch". Turns out it was some of the worst service I have ever had. This economy is price driven, period. For a company to sell you on service and then not deliver is becoming all too common place and leaving a bad taste in consumers mouths.

The condescending phone calls, emails, and messages from HID makes me really question the validity of their character both as a company and ethically....

 

Always get things in writing. Golden rule thumb, "Documentation beats Conversation."

I'm baffled to hear about that company. That sucks to hear. Hope it all works out.

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My apologies if I inferred that I was interested in a comparison, I was interested in a "So you have a Prema bios... Here's is how to do x if you want y" and it looks like there are some good guides.

Do people not just download his bios from his site and flash it themselves for the machine make/model?


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The BIOS for the P870DMx systems isn't public. Its vendor exclusive. Or unless he gives it to you directly.

 

I fixed this ↑↑↑ for you bro

 

Different shops have different prices, simple as that. There doesn't always need to be a fancy reason behind it...
I paid a fortune back then for my P170HM3 and it couldn't even OC the Extreme CPU at all (incl. no Intel XTU support) as the BIOS was empty & locked down like Fort Knox...and that unit was advertised with a factory OC of 4.8Ghz by a very popular Miami re-seller that was formed by original founding members of Alienware...


EDIT: I could tell you a million good things about almost every reseller on the Forums here. Be it a Prema Partner or not, they all have things that make them the best choice for you depending of what it is that really matters to you.

Some can source you every single spare part 10 years after a system has gone EOL.
Some cross ship you stuff around the world without even knowing you.
Some are such hardcore gamer that they end up spending all weekend in office to test-run your future unit.
Some love the systems so much they would rather prefer to not ship a single unit until they have found for you that one GPU that runs 15Mhz more than all the others.
They are all just made by Clevo but every single reseller simply gives it that special touch which makes everyone of them unique.

 

thanks for that. I was actually meaning the difference between mythlogic custom Prema bios (mostly unlocked) versus fully unlocked (HIDevo and Eurocom) compared to stock (which is locked by comparison). I haven't compared options or performance between the two, so I cannot say whether the one knocks the other out of the park compared to the other. Both are well made by Prema and people have different needs. We need it all! Some people want control and running, but don't need access to everything. We don't talk of stock, though...

I know the company you're talking about. Almost went with them, but went avadirect (cheapest at the time). Coincidentally, as of a couple years ago, the went through Prostar as their distributor...

Edit: Now I purchased through prostar. Loved the tech support, not big on the rma service the first time, but the second time they did basically replace every component in my laptop. The person I talked to even brought up Prema's bios to his superiors on my request.

Meanwhile, a Prema bios, after having my ZM as my first intro to his work, I will never have a laptop without his work (or unlocked in some way, although Clevo is currently my brand of choice)...

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