*** Official Clevo P870DM2/P870DM3 (Sager NP9873/NP9872) Owner's Lounge! - The Phoenix 2 is here! **

I wonder though...There's a P870DM2 and P870DM3 right? Now this is obviously wishful thinking but what if the P870DM2 has the same motherboard as a P870DM and the P870DM3 is the only model with the revised motherboard?

I mean to me it doesn't make sense having a P870DM2 and P870DM3 when the only difference is one does single 1080 or dual 1070 and the other does dual 1080 right? If the P870DM2 can also hold dual 1080 SLI then why make a "2" and "3" model?

 

That's absolute [insert obscenity] bro. You must have missed it... 180W 980 SLI fits fine. They did this on purpose, and you'll never convince me otherwise. Now bend over and crap out some more golden eggs, customers.

We're still screwed. What kind of moron would buy what we have now? They'd have to be absolutely insane to waste money on it. Clevo knows that. Otherwise, they would have released 1080 on the same form factor as the 180W 980 PCB.

 

I'm with Mr. Fox on this one. He had two 180W 980s in his P870DM fine. They could have swapped around things on the PCB and just upgrade the cooling but the whole design was changed.

 

Exactly. They knew guys like us would buy parts. Now you have to basically buy a whole new machine or EVERYTHING except the screen assembly and keyboard. They can bite me... evil bastards.

I wonder if they going to pull another fast one like this at the next GPU refresh?

The only way I will forgive them for this is if they replace all P870DM-G sold for free, minus shipping and handling cost. Otherwise, I'm giving them hell for it and being harshly critical of this treachery in social media for a LONG time.

 

Yeah, it's pretty clear they could have made things line up and fit the old chassis. They did it on purpose to obsolete the line already in the field, forcing whole laptop upgrades.

Blame accounting and finance, they likely ran the numbers for XXX GPU upgrades against YYY laptop replacements and the numbers won out.

 

Well, I hope my bitterness incites more of the same rage in others and causes them immeasurable financial harm. They deserve nothing less for their acts of contempt against their customers. It's unacceptable.

 

Even if they don't. Who knows if they will even make cards that will fit the original P870DM. What if they're made to only fit the new one?

I'm still curious on that specification 1 and specification 2 thing though. There's no need to name a product with two different model numbers just because of GPU configuration.

Although we have seen something similar with the P775DM1 and P775DM.

 

That ones easy for them, the next generation will need new motherboards for the 200 series chipset and Kabylake / Cannonlake CPU's.

A built in obsolescence for the whole laptop of this generation, and another opportunity to re-layout the whole laptop.

 

Well, will anyone try to fab their own screw offsets for the better heatsink? Also, the picture of the 1070 released may not be the Clevo release. If a 1070 can fit in a DM (likely new heatsink), there should be a way to fit them in. Powering and doing screw offsets for the better heatsink is the next part of that...

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Kaby Lake will be drop in for 100 series chipsets with a BIOS update. Cannonlake on the other hand we don't know about.

We still have hope: MSI 1070 mxm 3.0b cards.

 

Geez alright guess I did miss something. I know the 980s could fit, I had assumed the 1080 was larger because of some thermal problem. But alright whatever.

 

Power requirement isnt as much as a big deal. With my card, if I give it 120% power limit just on stock clocks, it can easily hit that and go over on firestrike ultra. So we are looking at 300w power consumption if you want any type of overclock with the card. Thats easy part, MXM can probably pull 150-200w by itself without having too much issues and the additional power connectors can support the rest.

Pascal would run much hotter than Maxwell though. So I dont even know if a single card can be cooled properly WITHOUT external waterdocks. I think the only laptop atm that can run a GP102 would be the prototype ROG 22inch. Everything else simply dont have the cooling capacity for it. IMO.

 

Yup, that's like Alienware devil worship treachery right there. I'm not impressed. Fool me once...

 

You can use the Kabylake CPU in motherboards with either the Series 100 or 200 motherboard chipsets, so you can drop in a Kabylake in a current Series 100 motherboard.

When the Series 200 chipset arrives, and desktop motherboards use it, the laptop motherboards will soon follow.

The timing for the Series 200 and Kabylake laptops will be the next refresh timing for the P870XX series.

Probably with the same Pascal GPU's, but there might be GPU improvements as well.

 

No, you misunderstood. I don't care about that. I'm talking about changing GPU PCB form factor so you cannot upgrade from 1080 SLI to 1180 SLI, TitanM SLI or whatever the Green Goblin decides to name it... because it won't fit in the chassis... like they did to us this time.

 

You may be mixing configuration discussion here, but that's cool (pun intended)

A single 250w Titan X(P) or 1080ti (assuming it's also 250w) is one configuration mentioned, using one board spread out over the 2 MXM slots to take advantage of both slot cooling connections.

The other was @Meaker@Sager 's WD about dual GPU's, which would be the 2 x 250w GPU configuration.

I think the single 250w GPU dual slot configuration is doable with air cooling.

Clevo could fit a Titan X(P), 1080ti, or even a (M)P6000 with that configuration.

Kinda like the single card 980 mobile desktop, but *bigger*

 

Yes I just said that...

We've always had two generations drop in even with a new chipset released:

Z68 > Sandy Bridge/Ivy Bridge [Even though Z77 was released]

Z87 > Haswell/Haswell Refresh [Even though Z97 was released]

Z170 > Skylake/Kaby Lake [Even though Z270 will be released]

Now what has me curious is, Intel switched from 2 cycles to 3 cycles now. No more tick-tock.

Does this mean Skylake, Kaby Lake and Cannonlake will all be supported under one socket? (Z170/Z270?)

If so we may get 6-cores in our P870DM since I believe Cannonlake will introduce 6-cores to mainstream...

 

Considering that if Clevo doesn't offer a GPU upgrade for the P870's with Maxwell to Pascal now, why would Clevo provide a GPU upgrade from Maxwell to Volta?

The new Pascal models will also likely be left behind their follow on generation because the subsequent Kabylake / Series 200 chipset P870's will have a different motherboard with likely yet another internal layout - again with different GPU boards and new placement.

Do we know for sure Clevo isn't going to offer MXM cards in a form factor compatible with the Maxwell P870?

Just because the new P870 models don't use a MXM card that would fit, that wouldn't prevent Clevo from offering a kit with MXM boards that would work in the Maxwell P870.

 

Sorry, not trying to take it out on you. Just think how you would feel if you just spent a small fortune on a beast with the expectation of being able to upgrade it only to find out that the OEM intentionally shut you out by screwing with things, on purpose, so you couldn't? Ain't that special? You wouldn't be saying alright whatever if you were one of their victims.

We don't know that they won't release a special 1080 SLI upgrade kit for existing owners. If they did my anger would be displaced. If they do, then I will take back the things I said and continue being an advocate for Clevo products. But, I'll continue being disruptive and critical until I see that happening.

Again, you're missing the point. I don't care about new chipsets and changes to motherboard layouts. Those are expected changes and not what I am talking about. There is absolutely no reason to change GPU PCB dimensions in such a manner that the parts will not fit in the chassis other than greed and customer-hate. Doing this kind of crap to block GPU upgrades is dishonest and dishonorable. We had MXM standards for years and only a couple of undesirable morphodite laptop manufacturers sold screwed up proprietary pseudo-MXM crap to customers dumb enough to buy that.

 

Your earlier reply indicated you didn't get that I already was saying the same thing, so I said it again in a different way

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannonlake

It's a 1151 socket, but it only lists the 200 Series chipset as compatible, so it won't work in a 100 Series motherboard, even though the socket is pin size "compatible".

 

Yeah I totally get it. It'd be like if the new Pascal desktop cards didn't work with pci-e. I'd be furious at having to need basically a whole new rig to upgrade.

 

I just can't believe Clevo would leave PM870 Maxwell users without a GPU upgrade, considering everyone was voicing their faith that there would be one.

And, Prema seems to be unable to say anything, but his hints at potential solutions suggest all isn't lost.

 

Cannonlake is a die shrink of Kaby Lake. So if Kaby Lake works in both 100/200 series chipsets, then I don't see why a die shrink would work in 200 series but not 100 series.

I have a feeling we will get to use Cannonlake in our Z170 based laptops unless Intel does some funny business on purpose to block that.

 

Could be, it is way out there timewise in the speculation realm, lots can change between then and now, including going to another pin-out layout for the socket, including pin count.

Time will tell

 

@Mr. Fox Oh no, he was putting up a pretty big ruckus a few times. Last time was the MSI I think it was?

Edit:

So here is a straight driver install.

 

I thought broadwell was z97, not 87... If so, getting the dm3, if it has the 200 chipset may be the longest lived laptop, so long as the gpu upgrade question is resolved...


Edit: it was compatible with SOME, but not all, 87 chipsets! This means it is up in the air...

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And what we do not want from the new MSI offering....
http://www.3dmark.com/compare/3dm11/11135145/3dm11/11199450/3dm11/11476577

 

I think you're right, Z97 only supports broadwell because of the eDRAM.

 

Turns out some 87 were, but not all. So it could be firmware related or early adopter of the newer standards on boards that allowed for the compatibility...

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Yes that's what I thought. I know ASRock is known to support everything thye physically can in their boards and believe that was one manufacture that supported Broadwell on Z87.

 

LOL, agree 100%... why bother. But, if MSI produces a 1080 GPU in a form factor that I can use in SLI in my obsolete 6-month old dead-end P870DM-G I will be grateful for that since Clevo already shown us they do not care about us.

I guess they have actually been showing us they don't care year over year with their firmware crippled laptops that are as worthless as tits on a boar without Brother @Prema there to rescue us from their garbage heap. But, taking the assault from firmware to GPU hardware that won't fit is a strike below the belt. In hind sight, they already did this to us once with the P870DM-G 200W 980 not working in SLI. Now they're doing the same thing a second time with 1080. Anyone thinking about buying one of these new model needs to pay attention to this trend. They may find themselves in the same sorry state of affairs this time next year.

 

MSI gimping performance....Which is really wierd since they were the ones who gave over clockers the unlocked version of the MSI afterburner tool.

 

Oh, you experience what I did when the X7200 launched 8 months after my D900F did.

 

Even MSI Afterburner is gimped on laptops unless you know the secret hack, and even then voltage is limited to a max of +100mV. Their notebooks, and ASUS notebooks, have always been pathetic products, for as long as I can remember. All bark and no bite, gimped and crippled by BGA crap CPUs.

Yup, that's what I was referring to in my last post... they've been doing it longer than I realized. Clevo was never relevant to me until Alienware turned into a panty-waisted wuss-machine producer.

 

MSi GT83VR overprice edition with dual 1080 -> https://webcache.googleusercontent....-titan-sli-024.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

No mention of mxm upgrade promise like the gt80 / gt72

 

Yeah, I know. What I'm trying to do this time is give them some benefit of the doubt and assume that their machines NOW will adhere to a standard which should carry over into Volta and beyond. They might be making custom-shaped cards, but their custom shape could be a "standard" they will keep making. I'd like to think Prema hinted as such... however as I was pointing out earlier, until I know for certain upgrade-ability remains, convincing the average joe to get these machines is... not easy. But it's the average joe that needs to buy them to "vote with wallets".

 

After this new product reveal and all of the negative implications carried along with it, they are on the verge of going back to a position of irrelevance to me. I may end up turning into one of the snooty elitist desktop master race laptop-hating trolls that are your nemesis; but, not because I want to as much as I am left with no alternative.

 

The day you become my nemesis is the day you stand there and tell me with a straight face that overclocking a laptop is ill-advised and that the laptop will probably catch fire.

However, I think a desktop and a throwaway book would be a better step for you.

Now... it's how to get you the i7-6950X with 64GB DDR4 4000MHz RAM and SLI Titan XP with custom loop watercooling using chilled water for the whole system (which you will STILL blow an AC vent at for OCing I bet) and a 960 Pro 1TB for your OSes with a 1440p 144Hz IPS panel... without needing to rob a bank or two.

 

Yeah, you're right. We will still be friends and have our memories of a better place in time. I should have already done that instead of buying a new Clevo. Had I known what the future had in store for me, I never would have wasted my money on another high performance laptop. It's an amazing product, but I don't play games like this. It should have been good for at least two generations of GPU upgrades (in SLI), but I never dreamed it would be zero.

All of these stupid notebook OEMs are sealing their own doom as I see it. Desktops are going to be the only remaining acceptable option because they are committing hara-kiri with their laptop gimping nonsense.

 

Wasn't the promise mentioned after these 2 were released? I think we are slightly jumping to conclusions on 1 leaked page...

And @Mr. Fox, I can feel your pain.. Never expected they'd pull such a stunt with 870DM.. But then again as @D2 Ultima said, they have done this before!

 

Not talking about the versions you can download and mod. A real unlocked version which was personalized to the user who owned it. And max voltage was unlocked. We are talking up to like 1.7V, not 100mv.

 

Have they ever offered that to MSI laptop owners? Or, MSI desktop GPU owners exclusively?

 

Panties dropped. Pants Jizzed. Profanities hurled to express excitement.

 

Thanks, bro. If they don't release a 1080 SLI upgrade option in the size of a 180W 980 that can be used by existing P870DM-G owner then my intent is for my pain to become theirs.

I know my endorsement was beneficial to the success of the P870DM-G, at least in a small way. I hate having to turn the tables on them, but fair is fair. Dogs that bite the hand that feeds them deserve a bullet to the brain.

 

The promise was made at GT72's launch. Which was with 880M. I do NOT know if GT80 was promised. If the GT80, which launched with 900M was promised, then we're set until Volta. If not, then pascal is it.

To be honest, I should have actually noticed. They've done this multiple times in the past. D900F --> X7200, P270WM --> P570WM. I'm now, in hindsight, actually facepalming because I should have guessed it. It always happens to their flagship, a refresh on the same socket happens. It comes out better faster harder stronger, etc. See when the P870DM came out I saw it said that it looked like they designed it to accommodate any weird card designs in the future, so it never clicked. Also it's only mainstream instead of being enthusiast-grade. But it really should have triggered for me. That pretty much is blah. On the plus side, going by tradition, this means this is the "perfect" model variants, and should be in rotation for another few years. I'd expect 2018-2019 to hit before these are actually phased out, there'll simply be Kaby lake dropped into the existing chipset more than likely and the GPUs for Volta will probably just fit right in. We'll probably only have a direct redesign when Cannonlake (if I have the roadmap right) shows up and a new socket appears.

 

Be glad you didn't spend as much as me..lol I bought mine when they were first available.

This was exactly my thoughts.

I'll be going 1070 SLI minimum. I don't think a single 1080 will be enough for me to max out my games at 4K. Hoping for a Clevo 1070 that fits if not worse case going MSI 1070

 

Right there with you. Im going to maybe get the 1080 and the new heatsink if the Core doesn't work well. And spend my hard earned money on a desktop workstation.

 

Oh, I no. That makes it even more painful. But, even if Eurocom had given me the Sky X9, and one to @Prema, as an expression of appreciation for our countless hours of work to make it great, I would still be every bit as livid as I am right now. It's a matter of principle and ethics more than money. Clevo has just shown all of us that they cannot and should not be trusted to do the right thing. That's really sad.

(Edit: Man, this has some scary similarities the death of the Alienware brand... Déjà Vu.)

I'm going to wait and see if they do something we are not expecting like a 1080 on the 180W 980 PCB and special heat sinks for upgraders. I'm just not interested in owning a single 1080 because it will be second fiddle to the 1080 SLI version. I bought this machine specifically with the intent to switch it to SLI using aftermarket GPUs. I even just purchased 980M heat sinks with the intent of installing my 980M SLI from the Panther. We ran into a snag with a little mishap that delayed that upgrade. If I cannot do that, then this product no longer captures my interest. If they don't do something, I'm probably not going to spend any more money on anything for upgrades. I'll just live with it until I can afford to make the switch and save those dollars for pimping out a open air benching station using desktop parts.

 

Yeah I feel the same way, it's the principle.

Too bad 980 SLI just didn't happen, maybe then Clevo would have been more pressured to use that design.

It will suck if 1070 SLI is the best we will get because I sold both my M18x and my P570WM and I feel like they both might work this time around with those cards. I had a 10-core in my P570WM

 

Wait and see if we get a better SLI bridge. 4K SLI scaling with what we've got now is not going to be a very nice thing to experience. I actually believe, if you're playing newer titles, that you're going to get more mileage out of a 1080 for 4K. If you were at 1080p and going to swap in the 120Hz screen (which I *HIGHLY* suggest you do; DSR can take you to 4K if truly need be, and 120Hz is always great) it would be a different story and I'd say 1070 SLI would be feasible.