*** Official Clevo P870DM2/P870DM3 (Sager NP9873/NP9872) Owner's Lounge! - The Phoenix 2 is here! **

I have zero issues with scaling at 200% except for Steam's in-game overlay, and that's Valve's fault. Everything looks nice and crisp.

 

There were other few things that has graphical elements that didn't scale that well, at least on Acer, but it wasn't installed by me, it was just a showroom display model

At anything other than 200%, the text was seriously blurry, and some software did not scale well, especially in menu sizes and images.

I would get that display for myself, but don't actually recommend it to everyone. to be honest, I think I would actually use it with 100% just for kicks. (Okay, maybe not, but it would be so funny to try)

 

Launch services.msc or go to computer management and watch how they don't scale well. Blurry text

 

Half an hour with a +100/+250 on the core on the left.

 

It's not as good as scaling for other applications, but it looks exactly as it would if it were 1920x1080 to me. Everything is exactly the same color in a 2x2 pixel block, so there's no upscaling lowpass filter or anything like that.

 

apparently clevo CC .83 version fixed the automatic fan table for me!

 

Probably a silly question.

On a dm3 how can I turn off led on keyboard and and behind the screen?

Thanks

Going to play horizon 3 on my bad boy!

 

Yes you can turn them off if you wish, not a silly question at all

 

Open the Flexikey app and hit the Backlight tab.

 

No issues with scaling here as well. Using it at 200% .
Some apps that don't scale well, I just use the manifest hack to make them scale.
Other than that no issues.

Also for scaling to take effect , you need to change the setting, sign out and sign in again. Otherwise it will be seriously blurry/wonky.

 

Yes, but how do you turn off the breathing effect on the back of the display?

 

I was hoping they would have fixed that with the P870DM3. It would be a whole lot nicer to just have the LCD cover lighting just stay on. The breathing animation is really stupid, so I typically just turned it off completely. Since it cannot be set to static I would just as soon have no lighting at all on the lid.

If I ever disassemble the lid I am going to look at the circuitry behind the screen. Maybe there are some contacts we can bridge or a connection we can bypass to make the LEDs stay on all of the time with no animation.

 

+ 1 for static on the lid. It got every other effect but vanilla static.
Breathing can be distracting.

 

Yeah, I've never liked any LED animation. I hated that on Alienware machines as well and always kept the lighting static. The flashing crap is something kids might find entertaining, but I find it really annoying. The ability to change colors and all that is great... I do like that feature a lot, just not animation.

 

It is cool the first 5 minutes. Afterwards, it only distracts from work

I actually disable all leds as they change the perceived color and if working in a color strict environment, I don't want to have a green tint around the display as human sight creates a compensation for the green oversaturation..

 

Not sure you meant to say it quite like that, but here goes.

The higher the refresh rate of the panel, the lower the response time must be for the panel to refresh in time to finish drawing the current frame before it's time to start drawing the next frame.

60hz refresh => 60 frames per second => 60 frames per 1000ms = 16.67ms to redraw 1 frame.

120hz refresh => 120 frames per second => 120 frames per 1000ms = 8.33ms to redraw 1 frame.

So the faster the refresh, the shorter the amount of time available to complete displaying each frame.

So a 25ms panel can fully support a refresh of 40hz.

 

@Donald@HIDevolution ordered a p870dm3 based machine a few days ago based on your postings here....
was impressed that you guys tackled the dm2/dm3 issue... better a single card in dm3 than no sale...
as it stands now I think Clevo needs to step up their game.. resellers

should this turn out well, would you guys mod the fans as well? I'd pay for it. I bet many would that are, like me, not into benchmarking but want this beast as quiet as possible.

order a few quiet 12v fans, do test runs with stock and the top 2 choices and put it on youtube and measure it live. would make people a lot less worried.
all assuming there is a difference in noise and they last just as long...

cheers!

 

Does this mean the 4K screen looks awful at 60 Hz playing a game at 60 fps?


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It's funny, unless you know what you're looking for, you might not notice it.

Take the 120hz "5ms" 25ms actual panel, someone finally posted what I predicted a month ago when the review came out, that it would look blurry during fast changing scenes.

Only 1 person @tpro saw it so far.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...oenix-2-is-here.794530/page-432#post-10346894

I would have thought it would be totally obvious immediately when gaming, but apparently some people's vision doesn't register it as a problem.

Expectation and the minds need to get along often blur the lines - pun intended.

I think someone mentioned 40hz being an option for their display, and that makes sense if it is a 25ms response panel.

I really can't say how you and your usage pattern will react to a panel slower than it's refresh.

Please let us know if you notice any issues.

 

assuming this math is true ( It seems extremely plausible) 4k 60Hz looks great in games that are more static.
but witcher 3 and overwatch and so on will be a bit smeared. may be better picture to lock 40fps and use gsynch. sharper

 

Totally nailed the definition there!

No panel that has over 16ms of total response time can't do 60 fps

Not awful... It looks really good... But animation is a bit ghosting at times, making up for a bit of animation blur.

It looks very good anyways.

There are panels that look better and panels that look worse, but the 4K display is really important for it's color reproduction and color qualities.

As I watch anime, anything should theoretically provide enough frames (anime is mostly 24fps), but some setups can be choppy even at 24 fps, especially if they rely on optimus alone and there is something like madVR processing the image...

;_;

It's always more complicated than it looks.

as a ground rule, try to always get the best, it is never enough xD

The refresh rate is determined by the controller, while response time is the physical property of responding to the electromagnetic signals...

 

Response time can be measured using different variables. I think some may be taking this math a bit far.

 

Great breakdown there Yup, the current 4k display at ~25ms has been fine for me so anything better would just be a bonus.

Not at all. I game at 60Hz on both the notebook display and on my external 4k monitor at 60Hz. It does fine for me on my FPS game...

Yea some people have super human eyes to be able to process what normal human eyes normally can't. Isn't 60Hz the limit for human eyes? Although one could tell easily the smoothness factor of a 120Hz vs 60Hz. It's very noticeable from 30Hz to 60Hz....huge contrast.

4K 60Hz does awesome for me on FPS games... In all humbleness only to prove a point that 60Hz is A-OK, I'm able to top the score boards at 60Hz round after round...60Hz is perfectly okay and doable. I would appreciate having a higher Hz screen just because it would be silkier. Even 4K at 75Hz would be sufficient, but I'd prefer QHD with 120Hz.

QHD imo would be the perfect panel for our notebooks. Best of both worlds of 1080p and 4K.

I run all my 4K displays on 1440p when I'm not editing.

::iunlock::

 

I wish I could get my hands on one of those, but right now I think I'll settle for a FHD display.

Now let's hope we're getting better and better displays with each generation, and I'm sure we will be at 100% adobeRGB + 120Hz + under 5 ms response time and we'll all be happy!

 

That would be the day I pop open my "special reserve," bottle of champagne, shake it like crazy in celebration and make sure to aim the cork at the old screens LOL.

 

feel the same. ordered the TN QHD display.
4k feels like overkill and I want 120Hz

 

A comparison of response times with the AUO FHD 120Hz 25ms - ChiMei FHD 120Hz 5ms (Already have thanks to MSIGT73VR) and AUO QHD 120Hz 5ms is what I'm waiting for to see how things are with them " regarding the advertising" stuff, So far only Notebookcheck.net does these tests, Does any one else do these in-depth reviews ?

We also have DOOM (Best Shooter 2016 ), thanks to the Metrics at Nightmare preset

Now Clevo should just ship them and Voila !! we should have the details xD

 

To me it seems like its run on a non native resolution,as if Windows forgot to apply scaling there

 

It looks like it's rendered at 1920x1080, hence the 2x2 blocks of identical pixels. Probably just lazy engineering. But my point was that it would look exactly the same on 1080p.

 

Any temp results you can share along where you ordered the fans?

 

that's my issue.... I'd like to stay with 1080p on the laptop, but all the talk of the 25ms response negating the 120hz refresh rate on the 1080p IPS panels is disheartening.

edit.. .. the 1440p QHD at 5ms seems nice, but again I'm concerned about scaling my 1080p content (games, movies) and the TN viewing angles. Supposedly it's WVA, but until a solid review shows me how that actually looks.... I continue to wait.

 

We're on Windows 10 now and Micro$h4ft still can't get scaling to work well. I wish they learn this from Apple where even a 4K display scales perfectly

 

But can Apple run 3DS Max and Houdini ?

 

I really think anyone coming from a 5ms display will notice it, I don't think it would have been a problem for me if I came from a 25 ms IPS/TN (which is very common in IPS) and most people come from IPS aswell. Whoever said 60hz is the limit for eyes had a high response rate 120/144 Hz display, I cannot see the difference between the two 120 and 60 on the current display except mouse to screen latency and small items moving.

Wish I can do light boost, although with that response time the screen will have to be too dim (backlight interval and blanking will have to increase) have seen clevos with 3d screen do it. Light boost is noticeable for everyone, e.g: you can read content of a window while moving it and that's enough to notice. Has the same blur as moving object in real life.

The blur has kinda grown on me, I can still notice it but my eyes have adapted to it. I still appreciate the low latency when running at 120hz, doing competitive Xonotic and quake plays.

 

I think 5ms rating displayed on 120hz FHD panel is based on input lag and nothing to do with refresh rate of displays. On the panel specification, ms rating is Input lag and refresh rate is shown on hz, not ms as in response time.

 

Well, you're wrong. 5ms is GtG pixel time = 2ms white to black.

 

Ah, I see. I got confused since 25ms numbers thrown around. Even old IPS didn't have that bad of a GtG response time.

 

Ordered them from a shop in Germany: ipc-computer.de. Just search for G751 fan. They are not cheap (well, the brand is Delta), 49 Euro per fan. So the mod would cost about 150 Euro. But even at just looking at the Delta one can see that the quality of the fan is in another league compared to the ADDA. The Delta is nearly inaudible at about 3000 rpm.

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The Delta fans are quieter and push the same cfm's? If so 150 is more than reasonable

Looking forward to your review!

::iunlock::

 

Totally interested if we can do this for P775! Noise is important for me since I work a lot without headphones on..

 

Amen

 

The 25ms response time was measured from actual response time of a real physical display, advertised as being a 5ms response time display.

You can think/believe whatever you want, fast motion on a display with a 25ms response time running at 120hz refresh will still be blurry

BTW, the blurriness / smear can be perceived as smoothness. As in the 120hz display looked so smooth, it was a "big improvement".

When actually it's a "smeary mess".

 

I get the distinct impression that some people don't remember that a 5ms response time is possible, but that response time doesn't take input lag and other deterrences into account.

We hardly get 60 real world shown fps with most displays of the moment, but everything should look smooth and nice either way, since there are algorithms that compensate for this.

What if we were to calculate a real life reaction and it would lead to a 200ms delay between the signal input and singal output: Say someone is playing dota, but an enemy is attacking. the moment from which the enemy pressed attack to the moment the other player responses to the attack is high, we would have to take into account the network lag on both, display input lag on both, peropherials lag on both, response time of both displays and a few other factors.

But it is smooth to the eye, because we have many predictive algorithms put in place, and there is a lot of compensation going on. Bottom line: Unless it's choppy, don';t worry about framerates and such. Technical data is not shown in it's entire naked picture.

Personal advice: Motion blur is actually cool and will make for a good to very good experience, it's frame distinction that breaks the experience".

Too explain: It is much better to have motion blur than to have a clear framerate with no blur between frames, as in that case the frames are visibly separated. Kinda like images, even if we change just 10 images per second, or 20, if we change them with a blur or transition effect between them, it's way more smooth than if we just change image to image.

This is the basics of animation and low framerate compensation. Even when drawing frame to frame, we either take into account the inbetween frames or we use a software to generate in between frames.




Bottom line XD

Response time isn't everything. The way it's handled matters much more.

And having a higher refresh rate is actually going to be better since even if the pixels don't fully refresh that fast, they will still create an in between frame based on that refresh rate.

Kinda like, they will go through a grey phase when they go from white to black.

Technology is mesmerizing

 

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Sir Arthur C. Clarke

Sir Arthur’s Quotations
http://www.clarkefoundation.org/about-sir-arthur/sir-arthurs-quotations/

 

Found them, pretty expensive in US. You said to just order 3 vga fans and not the cpu one, correct? Do you mind posting some idle temps and benchmark results?

 

it'd solve the biggest issue people likely have with GTX 1080 in Clevo.

 

I will be in a great source of embarrassment if I was in place of the manufacturer company, "my clients are doing themselves solving manufacturing problems", this should not be that way, and on the manufacturer to speed up the solution to solve the problems of cooling systems, this must be done by them.

 

I don't understand why they cheap out on the fans when the vast majority of people don't buy a 4000+$ machine just to run benchmarks and they have no real competition spec wise...
so short sighted

 

If this 12v fans was the best choice they could find for cooling the hardware, I would give them cred for the choice!! The cooling is most important!! The machine is build for overclocking purpose, and not designed for websurf/email alone.

 

Buying fans from Asus to put it in Clevo's machines, is this is some kind of joke or what?. Is this is the same Clevo that we know for decades as #1 performance machines in the globe?!

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