*** Official Clevo P870DM2/P870DM3 (Sager NP9873/NP9872) Owner's Lounge! - The Phoenix 2 is here! **

I've already tried the v50 version... the problem is that I've got a touchpad problem ==> the mouse stucks at windows startup for several seconds. If i install a newer version of CC, the bug disappears, have someone met this issue?

Last thing, when you say "fans used to spin up randomly" have you checked if the temps rise up, in other words if it is a consequence of a temp rise, or just a fan spinning up for NO reason?

 

A system BIOS - doubtful. A video BIOS - possibly down the road. At least that is how I read this post - http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...o-build-gentechpc.796285/page-4#post-10351059

As mentioned before, I agree with Prema's decision on this. The 'Prema Mods' are developed through a lot of blood, sweat, and tears making a BIOS work that won't crash a system, determining what can do damage, etc.. This method of release is a win for his effort and a win for vendors in order to make sure the BIOS is the best it can be.

 

Cheers for that link.

I have a hard time caring about vendors who aren't even in my vicinity, but fair point to the rest. Unfortunate for some of us, but fair. I'd be happy to purchase the BIOS directly without being contingent on vendors from other continents or sales territories, but such is the nature of what we're dealing with here at the moment. Thanks again for the information. Much appreciated!

 

NP

Exactly. If you have a relationship with them, you or a group of you may want to push them in the direction of joining the Prema Partnership team. The more boutiques joining the cause helps us all - https://biosmods.wordpress.com/partner/

 

They should all be Prema partners. The ones that aren't are bat s#it crazy for not being so. They should have done their due diligence instead of sucking lemons and whinning how their archaic "company proceedures don't *blah blah blah*.."

Fortune favors the bold, I feel satisfaction to see supporting vendors prosper from having their fingers on the pulse.

 

That some retailers just rely on XTU, is not good enough... It's time they now open their eyes and let people have/get Prema firmware

 

Well I have the older P870DM so I have no issues with the older version.

Never checked the temps but what I was doing didn't change, simple web browsing or video play back. With XTU they spin up as if I was running a stress test. Without XTU it's silent unless I play a game

 

have anyone managed to install the control center without xtu part?

 

Yeah one has found a solution. You will find it in one of the Clevo threads(latest posts). I'm on my phone

 

I understand these arguments completely, but if it were as simple as that then we would all be doing it. Though in an ideal world we wouldn't need to because the BIOS would be more open to start with!

We know exactly what our customers want, but we MUST respect the relationships that we have with ODMs like Clevo. If we don't respect these relationships then it has serious repercussions. A hypothetical company which has no direct relationship to Clevo doesn't have to worry about this, they could offer Prema firmware however they have to purchase the chassis from companies like ourselves who are direct with Clevo. Yes it's messy and yes it restricts some things, but it also enables the whole Clevo ecosystem to operate.

 

Appreciate you taking the time to respond - it means a lot around here, Rep +. I totally agree, Clevo could simply get it right the first time. I'm not sure what you guys need to kick it up the chain to either get Prema support green lit or Clevo to take a more serious approach, but we're all here to help Ask and you shall receive

 

Clevo has been a OEM for a longtime and use to it. I think they prefer to provide a vanilla product and allow its resellers to customize and take it to the next level.

 

Yes, I understand you are in a very difficult position. However, I hope there is a free market kind of thing in place with these laptops through supply and demand.

Now, you are more in tune with 'bigger picture' than me, so maybe the numbers are not there (and this post is the proverbial drop of water in the ocean). But if we can get enough people to demand better BIOS options/expansion, then Clevo will have to supply it or we'll *all* eventually move on to another company that does.

So, if there are enough of us (the consumers) putting pressure on the XMGs, Eurocomms, Sagers and other resellers of the world to provide this feedback, perhaps Clevo will be more receptive to this in future models.

 

With a nice base set that would satisfy most users would then leave the extreme tweakers to go and do what they do would be ideal IMO.

 

Thanks for your reply. Much appropriated. + rep. But I hope you can see us also in all this. A gimped firmvare doesn't help us who prefer Max performance from our expensive machines... Remember Clevo is the only company which can deliver what we want now. I appreciate if you could make a pressure on Clevo. Fully Unlocked firmware is just as important as the hardware for some of us!! I apologize if you took this in an other meaning. I hope you know what I meant with my not so good English

 

Finally pulling the trigger on a DM3 (single 1080).... my question is, is it worth the $ to have the vendor apply CLU to gpu and IC Diamond to cpu? Or is it better to purchase my own CLU/IC and do it myself?

 

Any comments/reviews on the B173HAN01.3 screen?

 

I don't think that's a valid model... only ones i know of are...

B173ZAN01.0 - 4K - 60Hz - AHVA (IPS) - 25ms - g-sync
B173HAN01.1 - FHD - 120Hz - AHVA (IPS) - 25ms - g-sync pending
B173HAN01.2 - FHD - 120Hz - AHVA (IPS) - 25ms
B173QTN01.3 - WQHD - 120Hz - TN - 5ms - g-sync

I confess I haven't read the entire thread though and don't know every version of display.

I'm eagerly awaiting a review on the B173QTN01.3 myself... or a similar FHD 5ms screen.

 

Doesn't Eurocom buy directly from Clevo? They offer the Prema mods. Metabox as well, as far as I know, is a direct Clevo contact too, and I've heard them at least working to offer Prema mods for at least the P870DM (unsure if they're pushing for the rest of the models, or just the top tier ones).

And also, why not ask for feedback on how Clevo feels about Prema? It would be idiotic to think that they do not know he exists... he's been doing this for the better part of 6 years JUST that I know of; probably longer. Prema got feedback to them from us, and it shows in their newer models too. Much of our feedback included "let Prema do your BIOS". This hasn't happened, so they probably rather leave things barebones (even though they REALLY need to improve on their stock BIOSes; current limit throttle on the first gen P6xxRx and P870DM models' CPUs and other similar bugs are really unacceptable for machines of such a caliber)... but they shouldn't make their direct sellers use their generally lackluster BIOSes. I know they mainly deal in sales to businesses, but the minute another ODM stops being idiotic and offers good, unrestricted hardware with better, more stable BIOSes/software (MSI is closest to being able to do this, from my point of view) I probably will have to tell the majority of people to jump at them, especially in the UK and Europe.

But I've repeated this enough times; you spend much time on these forums... I'm sure you've seen and are familiar with my long-winded statements and ideology.

 

Guys, I appreciate all the feedback and comments.

I'm often restricted in what I can say here as I represent a company, on top of that as mentioned above there is a huge amount of work going on behind the scenes which often is never discussed. We take a lot of feedback from communities like nbr and integrate this into our own findings and R&D from the chassis.

Fully unlocked firmware from Clevo has basically no chance of happening. There are a multitude of reasons for this, some obvious and some not. For example, Clevo won't want this because it could well increase their exposure to failures. One less obvious reason is that some companies would definitely NOT want to ship Clevo chassis based laptops with an fully unlocked BIOS - they would have major concerns about increased RMA rates, increased technical support requirements and so on. I'm not giving support to these examples at all, just stating that there are lots of parties in the mix here.

We discuss topics like this with Clevo on a daily basis, in fact as I type this post several of my colleagues are in Taiwan with Clevo for several days of meetings. We voice all our opinions and I can confirm that not only do we take a lot of feedback from communities like nbr and our customers (both laptops owners, companies who purchase chassis from us, resellers etc) which we integrate with our own testing and R&D but there's a raft of other topics being raised which would often never even make it onto a forum. Some discussions are easier, some are harder. But I would say that pretty much every topic raised here is forwarded down the chain if it has any chance of being acted on and has enough momentum.

@D2 Ultima - I can't comment further on other companies directly because 1/ it's against forum rules as a company rep on nbr 2/ it would be better for other companies to reply themselves if they wish to do so.

In a similar vein it's really difficult for me to respond to this. I have been quite open in the past on nbr by stating that we have been in differing levels of direct contact with Prema for a number of years now, but we are restricted in the level of which we can offer his solutions (for the moment anyway, never say never ;-) ) . Clevo knows that Prema exists (of course), I know exactly how Clevo feels about it and it would be completely wrong of me to discuss the topic in public - sorry.

 

Well, as I expected really. Though, I never did say "unlocked" BIOSes from them should be sold. I said I'd like Prema to do their BIOS (doesn't need to be unlocked; just more stable/well-done/etc) and if not, that they need to improve their current level of QA with them.

As for the inability to comment, I understand. I know a good few things I'm not supposed to say about the video games industry and some of its companies, so I completely get where you're coming from. Either way, I hope Clevo relaxes their stances. It really is unfortunate that I can't just tell people in Europe and the UK without a shadow of a doubt where to get a Clevo that will properly work. All these fan table problems and clevo app issues that will almost certainly be fixed with firmware/EC updates are some things I hate knowing exists. I do not see these kinds of problems in other models... Clevo needs to step their game up.

Oh well, they probably don't know who I am anyway.

 

Yeah.. moving forward now it would be good to see Clevo step up in areas which are easy enough to improve. Heat Sink QC, BIOS (just use Prema's from factory ffs) and Fan control are widely identified as areas that need attention. They'd mop the floor then.

 

Their software requires attention too. It needs to be less buggy. MSI's doesn't cause problems with things as far as I know... Clevo's is basically widely known to cause random problems.

 

Guys, guys what are you all doing. Dont push this this unlocked bios thing too much. For people who want it they know where to get it from. For people who dont care, let them be happy with whatever they have.
If you keep pushing the idea that all re-sellers who do not offer unlocked bios are crap, then they only thing you will accomplish is clevo banning the re-sellers who provide this option. Then we will all be left with no option at all.
Its a very dangerous game to play.

 

People in the UK and Europe only have the option of importing from the US or Portugal etc if they wish for Prema partner shops. This is why it's being pushed.

 

You have to have more faith. We're trying to provide feedback to them.

Also, I want to say I agree on some of the things XMG has stated about support and others burning out systems with incorrect settings. However, there has to be a sweet spot somewhere in between current offerings and a fully unlocked BIOS.

in regards to a ban, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot. Taking away one of the very differentiators setting Clevo apart from their competitors would either cause an uptick in things like XTU or ThrottleStop. Or if that was taken away too, there would be a very large exodus of consumers.

 

one instance of that msi software is the screen calibration app

seems to conflict with displaycal and/or other color retainer software that uses your own icc profile (not from msi)

 

Interesting, but screen calibration having issues with each other is something I wouldn't put past it.

With clevo the problems I'm talking about are like:
- P65xSx hotkey interacting with the touchpad drivers and causing random BSODs in games
- Hotkey software PxxxSM-A until at LEAST last gen making Logitech headsets that rely on LGS for 7.1 audio only push audio from 2 channels after reboots, even though the system is pushing 7.1, effectively making them a useless buy for these models as 5.1 channels are being used but inaudible.
- Georgel's overclock getting frozen and his CPU remaining clocked up
- Their website giving downloads for older software versions even though the newer versions are listed for the download.

^ Stuff like that needs to be GONE.

 

There is also Dream Machines in Poland.

 

I think I ordered too soon, there is now a single 1080 DM3 option

Edit: Aside from that, the single 1080 DM2 disappeared....Meaning the t-shaped heatsink for the single 1080 is no longer offered.

 

Due to the disappointment, i decided to share my experience here to leverage the awareness for new buyers.

I'm selling my Sager P870dm3 for the following reasons:

0)Fan not spinning properly, heard its Clevo firmware issue? Still not fixed, been weeks.

1)CPU temps are horrible even with CLP, guess i need to delid.

2)I agree with @D2 Ultima , one should have a working BIOS, xtu features arent even working properly, can't OC well.

3) I have to buy from certain resellers to have a properly working machine (stable bios)? I can't as my virtual proxy only allows purchases from US, oh and the price difference is generally extreme, I went with XoticPC. Would rather have a BIOS with only clock adjustment but atleast it wouldn't have serious flaw. (oh and afaik xtu support is pretty standard nowadays for minor oc e.g:MSI, Aourus, Gigabyte and others)

4)the 120hz has terrible viewing angle, pretty much worse than my p170 tn, and any tn display i own, oh and its 6bit ~16 bit colors, lame as most laptops have atleast 8, as an editor this is unacceptable.

5)fans are extremely annoying, having a single 1070, 2nd fan gpu is on, should have the option to disable. No, max fan speed isnt an option, didnt buy the thing for running 3dmark all the time.

6)Keyboard is horrible: 15 inch type, low key travel, spacebar are squeaking after certain amount of use, my p170 was much better.

7)Community not taking any of these seriously, havent seen any of these complaints on this forum before purchasing, I have only seen one user posting a similar experience. Other responses are from company representatives and/or fanboys (?) muting the issue with unrelated suggestions. (just my opinion, could be wrong) Having a fully unlocked bios as an excuse is an exaggeration, most people only want to make a minor oc adjustment, and properly working bios, this can be done on most laptops with working xtu support. (currently always resets and need to use throttlestop). Gurus here: Purchase it and TRY IT to comment serious info. (Meeting specification). Not everyone wants to OC anwyays, not everyone wants a fully fledged firmware, just asking to have a generally working bios fix, which is a must for everyone.


@Phoenix reinstalling windows did not solve it, all i needed to do is remove xtu from clevo cc like mentioned in @TBoneSan thread.

Ill just go with a 6820hk cpu laptop other than clevo which has minimal perofmance loss compared to the 6700k that needs to be delidded to run at stock properly.

sorry for bad english.

Cheers

Edit: sorry if im sounding offensive or smth as im quite angry, it was a tedious purchase abroad, now let alone selling it. I would be glad to have any suggestion, thank you.

Edit2:
(tl;dr, as phoenix told me, this laptop doesn't work out of the box, nor in the first month of its release. ill add that: expect some future replacement budget (screen) if you purchase this laptop, it might be worth to take this long route for a perfect 17inch DTR due to having a desktop cpu (after delidding) and dual gpu option, which im still considering it just now)

Disclaimer: I'm a semi-long time Clevo user, over 6 years now with 3 machines over the years. By loud i mean beyond audible, I can hear them from 3 walls with open doors. The machines i owned were audible aswell but barely loud as it was more like air sound with tiny motor noise, let alone that they had proper fan scaling, or even 2 EC fan presets modes...

 

Maybe I copy/pasted the wrong model ... I did mean the B173QTN01.3.

I wish there was a FHD 120Hz TN 5ms g-sync model. I have no need for higher than 1080p on a laptop since I do most of my in-office work on an external display. When traveling, that's another story.

 

Hearing you there with broken XTU support.

Well... It does have a 6700K CPU inside, but the fans spin too fast when there's nothing going on inside.

And TS is actually hard to use since I don' know what half of the options inside even mean ;_;

 

It's not possible to do this without reinstalling windows, is it? ;_;

Just finished installing it and still getting fans to spin too fast and continously in here...

 

What happens if you set the software to not startup with windows and unplug the machine from the wall then power it back on again?

There are a lot of settings that might be changed that could cause the fans to keep spinning such as power, fan profile and if anything is loading the CPU/GPU.

 

You need to do an NVRAM reset just before you format so the XTU crap doesn't alter the BIOS settings when you boot to Windows

 

Hi @damicu199 ,

Some comments from a dm2 owner (single 1080 with t-shaped heatsink)

Have you tried undervolting your cpu? A -100mv offset helps a lot with the temps. No need to delid, just make sure the heatsink is seated properly.

The stock bios is working okay. Compared to the stock P870DM bios, the stock P870DM2/DM3 bios is ahead when it comes to overclocking options. Not sure what you meant by can't OC well, can you tell us what you were doing? e.g set cpu to 4.7Ghz etc. Here's what I actually observe: if in the CCC the profile is set to entertainment and then you open the CPU OC software in CCC and then set the multipliers, the system will freeze. To avoid that: change the windows power plan to high performance, set the minimum processor ulitilization to 100%, change the CCC profile to performance (change fan top profile to overclock but that's optional) and then finally adjust the multipliers in the OC app.

You have the 4k 120hz screen right?

I agree with you on this one.

This one too.

Some of the questions I cannot answer though, just my two cents

Regards,
Mark

 

the point is why would i need to undervolt/underclock the cpu when i can get a superior system without touching anything, not to mention actual overclocking?
Are you sure it actually works? Right now its set at 47x multiplier, guess i won the silicon lottery or smth as its pretty stable with prime95 for 8 seconds before it starts to thermal throttle, its been on that frequency for weeks without bsod, i have to open throttlestop and CC overclock xtu to apply it each time, also change the TDP value twice to apply. As some users here mentioned, BIOS ocing menu only works once windows boots WITH XTU. (Or the xtu that comes with CC)
1080p 120hz, its basically an entry level overclocked screen i guess?

Thank you for your response, ill still try your method to see if it works without xtu... (remove xtu from cc)

Update: only settings that sticks is ram, 10 ratio increment, ram is running at 2600mhz.

 

wouldn't installing Clevo CC after formatting installs XTU alongside?

 

How do I do a NVRAM reset?

It does, but there is a way to stop this.

 

yes, I am new as well, ordered an incredibly expensive machine.
havent gotten it yet, since I ordered the qhd 120hz, but the 'community' here is quick to dismiss and troll you and call you "kid" (I bet I'm 20y older) if you want to publically state that you are worried about tests that show p870dm3 having 62 decibel fan noise, which is utterly unacceptable.

worse, those 'experts' don't even own the hardware.

the longer I read the comments here the more inclined I am to cancel my order.
it feels like there isn't enough pressure on people to fix this stuff.
and I feel I am not getting honest and open opinions on the p870dm3. this is the OWNER's lounge after all, should it not be?

and seeing XMG posting here is kinda hilarious after I haven't heard back from them when I asked a simple question on their site 2 weeks ago and they aren't updating their site to offer single GPU dm3s

 

Man. Those are hard to configure software wise.

Best hardware you can actually get with money.

120Hz screen might be bad though, I would get either 4K or 75Hz one for better colors.

What do you actually need? Getting more GPU and CPU power is needed if you actually need it or bench. Or if you want a really smooth experience when browsing the internets ( like brother @Phoenix )

Any DTR will be noisy, but do you need a DTR or a mild gaming laptop? (seriously asking this, desktop CPU is really felt in some of my work benchmarks!). P775 is pretty noisy at full load, but not noisier than what I was expecting. P870 might be slightly noisier.

It is up to you to decide what you need / what you want. Software support is there (let's say) but don't venture if you don't know your way around software tweaks and such. Some of the settings are painful to make, it is mostly NOT plug and play. You can, of course, order it with windows installed and you don't have to deal with anything like this. Fun times ahead either way!

 

Yeah i found reinstalling windows does nothing, just simply removing xtu, and install CC 0.84 does it.

 

This isn't my first DTR or Clevo laptop, and nor it's Clevo's first laptop aswell, these stuff didn't happen since they ever started (except rarely but usually fixed immediatly, like p570)
And there is no magic or quantum processing inside the thing, desktop cpus arent marginally different than mobile, nor desktop gpus, when it comes to software, for the overestimators i said marginally.
The software bugs aren't due to features, its low QC and lack of testers, their test was: oh its boots and it cools! lets ship it. The model should have been sit in production stage instead of being sold around.

I think we have a finished hardware with pre-release software and thats not fair, or what it is called ready to hit the market.

I agree with you, minor bugs are ok to have, as the beasty components compensate, but whats the use if we cant properly use them?
Also it is clear that you're blindly spamming these types of feedbacks, (fanboysim). We did not say we would tamper with the settings and call it crap since it isnt plug and play for overclocking/tweaking, the laptop simply does NOT work properly in "sane" aspects. I'll list them again for you
1)Poor choice of screen without even listing detail, its obvious that 120hz screen shouldn't exist as 25ms response and being pure TN not AHVA.
2)Poor CPU cooling, delid is a "must be done" by resellers as that is intel's issue, else laptops with desktop cpus should'nt exist, 6820k bar die performs better for example.
3)Broken fan cooling system, and thats very critical in "sane" non fanboysim manners. When i say loud, its really loud, and NO its NOT design limitation, the fans worked properly before the fan table got corrupted :

4)The software (Clevo CC) has been really terrible for years, don't tell me these things are too difficult to implement, its the company's infrastructure issue, cant develop software? go ahead and ditch this software, make it 100% bios controlled. (e.g fan control, windows key enable, backlight etc) Altho its been buggy through out the years, it was still acceptable to deal with, but due to the EC bugs P870dm users have to rely on it now, making the laptop pain in the ass to use.

Jeez, almost got into drama, just my 2 cents...

 

I can't accept that argument that 'it just will be noisy'.
it's a "stop phrase" designed to block any serious discussion or objections.
not saying you consciously want to apply it like that, but that's what it is.

what is "noisy"? there are so many assumptions and cloaked accusations in this phrase.
it implies I am not aware of the heat that needs to be dissipated.
it implies I or other customers can't handle a little noise.
and a lot more.

but seriously, what is noisy? is 62db noisy? heck yeah!
is that a level of noise any customer should expect?
hell no!
is that something the average DTR can deal with?
no way!
does it seem like I am getting honest feedback from buyers here when all I hear is that "whatever the noise is, if you can't handle it, you aren't welcome here or shouldn't buy a Clevo"?
nope.

When I see a guy replacing fans and dramatically lowering noise, I see screw ups and bad practices.
and it strikes me as extremely stupid that companies aren't aware that people would gladly pay 100$ just to make any hair dryer machine less noisy.

I know what I need. thank you from reminding me that I should be aware of what I need. I am aware.

I'm ordering from US even though I"ll end up paying 800$ worth of import tax since Schenker/XMG doesnt feel it is necessary to respond to customer questions for 2 weeks and is STILL more expensive for a lower feature product than Hid is plus import tax for a better product.

but not choosing MSI was a 51% vs 49% decision.

and since I know noise can be handled better, and I don't get any customer feedback except extremely negative one, I am unsure if I should even bother with risking ordering a hair dryer.

I had my first Clevo in 2005 and I was so "impressed" with it that I never ordered another until now.
worried I will just curse myself after.

 

too bad i agree aswell, and this is not a "rant" yet imo.
Heck i would even buy these fans (as i already recieved the laptop ), and replace that screen for a bummer 200 dollars, but I still can't buy or plead to Clevo to fix the EC fan speed issue, replacing the fan with a quit one will only reduce the noise, and u have to hit FN+1 everytime u play a game, or render videos, im selling it anyways.

Oh and btw, on my right is a noisy Windows air conditioner, not exaggerating but the laptop still loud especially the whine noise, around 3k to 4k audio frequency spectrum for the curious, its not just flow of air sound or white noise.......

Edit: typo

 

I didn't want to come across *****y or something.
I'm sure you did not mean to offend.
just a bit ftrustrated.
I am spending on the very limit of what I can afford...

why do you think the 120Hz QHD will be bad? is there any data out there yet?
I actually need "good" AdobeRGB coverage and under 99% sRGB could be a real problem.
But for gaming I'd want 120hz and QHD mostly for highter rez than 1080p, but 4k is overkill for me

 

replacing the fans may be not such a tough thing to do.
I guess much less risk than delidding CPU

 

yeah its also unfair to pay that amount. (asus fans are around 80 each, thats 240 dollars, then comes the screen, totaling 400 dollars, p775dm might be the better option would even get it with a 1tb ssd/or 1080 with that additional price lmao, dual gpu users would be bummed tho)

 

I'd be willing to pay for any fans that offer serious noise decrease.
even if it's 100$ or a bit more.
I doubt they are 80$ a piece. but even if... and the CPU isn't the issue if you get it delidded and you undervolt a bit. issue is simply horribly cheap fans.
the test I had read of a dm3 single 1080 machine (which was otherwise a glowing recommendation) mentioned temps were very high and fans extremely loud. but on the positive side: no throttle. but 62db.

so the fans are not just loud because the software is bad. they're loud because they're bad.

delidding CPU, better paste on GPU and CPU and exchange fans may turn this into an amazing machine.
I don't doubt Clevo is a good choice when it comes to features and customization.
they're just skimping out in areas that matter a LOT to a LOT of people: noise

if Clevo thinks they can survive by serving benchmarkers only, they are mistaken