*** Official Clevo P870KM1/P870KM1-G/Sager NP9876 Owner's Lounge! - Phoenix 3.0 ***

Hello.

I want to buy a P870KM-G but before I buy I have a few questions.


The model I am looking to buy is the one below

http://affordablelaptops.com.au/contents/en-us/d622_metabox-clevo-p870km-g-laptop-notebook.html

Can I buy the laptop with 1 x 1080 GTX and then later in the future upgrade to 2 x 1080 GTX SLI in the future?

Would 1 x 1080 GTX perform better than 1070 SLI? Does Nvidia SLI work good in a laptop?

What screen quality should I look to buy with this model. I have the following options.


17.3" FHD 1920 x 1080 IPS WVA Matte 60Hz LED with G-Sync $0.00

17.3" FHD 1920 x 1080 IPS WVA Matte 120Hz LED $275.00

17.3" QFHD (4K) 3840 x 2160 IPS WVA Matte 60Hz LED with G-Sync $495.00

I want to be able to play the latest games at a decent FPS for a solid few years before upgrading again.

Thanks

 

You can upgrade but you would need to contact your reseller or @Donald@HIDevolution for the upgrade parts (VGA card, heatsink, PSU) etc etc.

Ask your reseller what panel will be used specifically, such as the manufacturer and model number. I believe all those panels have a 25-27ms response time which will mean that moving sceneries will have a ghosting trail on the screen.

 

Does it depend on what GPU config you get as to what heatsink, PSU is installed?

So if I chose 1 x 1080 GTX there wont be a 2nd heatsink and enough PSU power to upgrade to SLI later in the future?

 

Correct. However, while installing a different heat sink would be necessary, you'd only need to purchase a second power adapter and the ~$30 converter. You'd also need the SLI cable, but here's a kit from HIDevolution for reference.

 

http://www.hidevolution.com/evoc-p870dm3-dm2-dual-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-upgrade-kit.html

 

Need to inquire about the heatsink, I believe you can request the SLi type even when buying without a 2nd VGA.


For the PSU, you would need a 2nd 330 brick and a connector bridge. Or you can buy the second 330 and connector bridge from the reseller even when buying a single VGA.



As always, ask reseller before finally ordering.

 

OK thanks for the replies.

What about the screen?

17.3" FHD 1920 x 1080 IPS WVA Matte 120Hz LED with G-sync $275.00

17.3" QFHD (4K) 3840 x 2160 IPS WVA Matte 60Hz LED with G-Sync $495.00

Which one should I buy?

 

IMO, neither. The only reason I can understand purchasing the 4k panel is if you need it for photo/video editing, or you can sacrifice the refresh rate if you don't game at all. As for the 1080p display, the GPUs will be pretty overkill for a lower resolution panel. I'd ask if they can install the 3K 120Hz G-sync panel (I believe it's the AUO B173QTN01.0.

 

buy the 3K screen

 

After using WQHD for so many years on my W230 I could never go back to low-res (aka FHD) screens for anything other than watching a movie.
If you are into anything that involves accurate color reproduction go for the AUO 4K, otherwise get the AUO 3K wich also has 120Hz and hardware g-sync.

 

Isn't gsync just dp adaptive sync if on laptops? So it's freesync essentially.

 

120Hz screens require (or rather should very much have) a hardware buffer in order to pre-load the next frame and have a smooth experience. The technology is called NVSR (or H/W g-sync) and build into the B173HAN01.1 (FHD) as well as B173QTN01.0 (WQHD) 120Hz/AUO screens.

For 60/75Mhz S/W g-sync screens this doesn't matter.

 

How about the chimei 120hz tn fhd on the msi laptops?

 

Sorry, but I don't have a data sheet of that screen...

 

Correctamundo; G-Sync can be thought of as software syncing with the non-official limit of 75Hz. NVSR (Nvidia Screen Refresh) is a hardware syncing technology - it uses the t-Con on the LCD panel itself to sync up to 120Hz. Just like G-Sync panels, NVSR panels need to be validated - it's not the case that every 120Hz panel can support NVSR as they have to be able to meet the sync erformance and refresh rate envelope specifications.

 

i can totally dig his stance on that: rather than buying a new system every 12 months whenever a small update is released, i prefer to keep my system and max it out. just so much fun to tweak and get the most out of a machine, that way you also build a special bond with it and really make it "your own", your baby

 

Yes, I'm really learn a lot of good stuff from you guys, maybe I'll do the same with my X9E when I have time, specially the 1070 sli or the 1080 tweaks

 

I understand that My machines tend to go under several revisions.

 

I would like to know a little more about the Thunderbolt 3 on this Laptop.

Because it is the new Z270 chipset and KabyLake CPU - what has changed regards TB3?

Does it still need the TB3 controller (Alpine Ridge) or is this now part of the CPU package (on die)? Havent been able to find that out. In lieu of finding info that says TB3 is now part of the CPU die i will assume that the alpine ridge controller is still used.

Which controller ver does Clevo use on this model laptop? There are 3.

Intel offers three versions of the controller;

• one "DP" (Double Port) version that uses a PCIe 3.0 ×4 link to provide two Thunderbolt 3 ports (DSL6540)
• one "SP" (Single Port) version that uses a PCIe 3.0 ×4 link to provide one Thunderbolt 3 port (DSL6340)
• an "LP" (Low Power) version that uses a PCIe 3.0 ×2 link to provide one Thunderbolt 3 port (JHL6240).

More of a TB3 question in general but how are the TB3 ports wired to the Pcie bus on this laptop?

Does each TB3 port get its own x4 PCI-e lanes?

Does the TB3 connection go via DMI 3.0? or are the lanes connected to the TB3 ports wired directly to the CPU? (X99? QPI)

If each TB3 port has its own x4 PCI-e lanes then does that mean we could get 32GB/s out of each port at the time? (8GB/s is for the DP 1.2)

In general does anyone know exactly how the TB3 ports are setup and which controller it is actually using

I ask because TB3 is important to me for storage in the future. If i get this laptop i want to be sure it will perform as i expect it too - better to find out now if the 2 x TB3 ports share the same x4 PCI-e lanes - if that is indeed the case. It does kinda make sense that with 2 x TB3 ports they are most likely using one "DP" (Double Port) version that uses a PCIe 3.0 ×4 link to provide two Thunderbolt 3 ports (DSL6540) - but that would mean both ports sharing the one set of PCI-e lanes - right? hmmmmm.......

 

KM1 is using a JHL6540 while the DM3 was using a DSL6540.

 

Isnt the JHL6540 similar to Dells gimped implementation?

If that is the case i might as well just look inot a DM3 and not a KM1.

 

JHL is identical to the DSL, except for power saving. Both are the high-end 6540 Alpine Ridge with identical feature set.

 

But how is the JHL able to maintain the same data throughout with less PCIe lanes?

 

It doesn't have less lanes. You are thinking of the old JHL6 240, which is a totally different chip.
JHL6 540 is brand new.

 

ah, probably.

 

what is the difference between the JHL6540 and the DSL6540 ?

I mean there has to be a difference - right? Otherwise why have a new chip

 

http://ark.intel.com/products/94031/Intel-JHL6540-Thunderbolt-3-Controller#@specifications


http://ark.intel.com/products/94031/Intel-JHL6540-Thunderbolt-3-Controller#@ordering


this....

https://thunderbolttechnology.net/sites/default/files/HBD16235_Thunderbolt_TB_r05.pdf

tells it all.

Interesting.

 

So having read all that, and taking the following into account....

"Starting with Intel systems based on the 100 Series chipset, Thunderbolt 3 is delivered via a series of discrete silicon devices that have varying capabilities. The dual-port SKU supports two Thunderbolt 3 connectors. It takes four lanes of PCI Express Gen 3 as an input and two full (four-lane) links of DisplayPort 1.2a. The single-port SKU supports a single Thunderbolt 3 connector. In general, if a system has a single Thunderbolt 3 port, the connectivity behind that port could be as high as four lanes of PCI Express Gen 3 with dual DisplayPort links. It could also be as little as two lanes of PCI Express Gen 3, with a single DisplayPort link. In each case, the Thunderbolt interface itself doesn’t change; it is still 40 Gbps. However, the underlying source data and display may be more limited."

What actually is the TB3 setup behind the TB3 ports on this laptop?

Who would know this ? Clevo? A clevo reseller might be able to dig in to find this out?

I dont like my chances of Clevo actually talking to me directly about this.

Where to from here on this to find out the EXACT setup of these ports ?

DOnt know about you but i think this is important to know when spending this amount of money on a laptop

 

We get full bandwitch with single port or split performance when using two simultaneously.
It is using the best TB3 intergration possible at this point in time until we get to coffe-lake's integrated solution without external controller.​

 

What is the diffrence between the p770dm , p775dm and the p870km1?

 

GPU support for the first two with the last one being a totally different chassis.

 

Yes, after reading the intel pdf i get that the output is only 4 pcie lanes total and that it is split over the 2 ports. So having 2 x TB3 ports is not such a great deal - the BW is split in half if both ports are being used at the same time.

Dont get me wrong - not saying its anythiing particular to Clevo, ....it applies to any laptop with 2 x TB3 ports.

so really the only thing this new model gives us is, 4 extra pci-e lanes which are used by the extra M2 slot. What else does the Z270 chip set bring to the table?

Guess i need to research the Z270 Vs Z170 to see what if any advantage apart from the extra M2 slot.

Certainly the extra TB3 slot is of little benefit given the way the x4 lanes are split among the 2 ports - may as well just run 1 x TB3 slot and daisy chain any other TB3 devices

 

Gpu support being dual 1080s vs single? And is just the chassis new or everything under the hood new as well?

 

No, the 870 has a different chassis to support two cards.

770 = up to 1070
775 = up to 1080
870 = up to 2x1080

 

Remember that you also means you get two USB 3.1 ports. A hub would perform worse in that situation. But you're correct that the biggest advantage is the extra four lanes to the PCH. While total bandwidth is still bottlenecked by DMI, you can still get more 4K read/write and access more drives individually at full speed.

 

The big thing storage wise is allowing 3xm.2 PCI-E and 2x SATA still to be switched on.

 

Well the main reason for the additional M.2 slot is that it is the one that is 'optane ready':

http://www.computerworld.com/articl...ntel-unveils-its-optane-hyperfast-memory.html

 

So it is also NVMe I assume?

 

It will be interesting to see how that stacks up against a nice array of M.2 drives in terms of user experience.

 

It can be used for both PCIe/Optane but not SATA.
At this stage Optane is not a replacement for storage, but a small (16/32GB) 'high-speed-cache' for acceleration of the actual drives.

 

So basically... it's the SSD's version of the technique of adding a 64GB SSD to a HDD as a cache in the past; kind of speeding it up but at the same time not really?

 

"not really" haha u crack me up

Sent from my Huawei Mate 8 NXT-AL10

 

How it will be configured, from the RAID controller BIOS or Intel Rapid Storage software, or other way?

Edit:, I noticed they said in conjunction with Sata ssd which is reasonable, there are cheap ssds now around 512gb but with low profile performance and high latency, crucial ones around 300mBps read for example, is it would be useful to use optane this way? or it will be used with new nvme technology as well?, Can we do that with a regular fast 32 GB nvme as well and the speed difference is really minimal?.
Maybe the advantage with optane is no overhead, less power consumption for ultra books and tablets.
I need to understand more please.

 

Who can comment on the killer network parts?

I have read (cant remember if it is on this forum or somewhere else now - been doing so much reading researching all manner of things to do with the laptop i need for my particular tasks) that the killer networking in the real world did not provide much practical advantage and it was/is more of a gimmick then a useful thing to have. Thoughts?

Also that the Killer wi-fi had/has some issues and should be avoided and to use the Intel wifi instead. Thoughts?

 

Hi, I have a Killer card in my AW and I had no real problems. It is gimicky IMO, it's nice to see the traffic on individual programs. You get to prioritize them so if you have multiple downloads going on it is useful.

The only time I had an issue was after an upgrade of my internet connection. I didn't get any speed increase but tracked it down to the killer SW. The first time you run it it sets a maximum throughput based on the current connection and does not change automatically when the connection speed increases. You have to run the config again so it 'learns' your connection speed again. I just turned it off.

The only useful thing I found was with Steam. A steam download for some reason ties up almost all the available bandwidth. This makes browsing painfully slow. Set it to low priority and surf at nearly normal speed, or even set the browser to high so it takes priority during other program DL's.

The card works just fine if you do not use the killer SW or it's service. I simply un-installed after looking around the SW and coming to the conclusion I did not need any of the 'features'.

HTH

 

That aspect has always annoyed me about Steam. I can download games from Origin or even Uplay at full speed (~15 MB/s - yes, megabytes not megabits) without affecting network activity for myself or anyone else in the house. But unless I limit Steam to 10 MB/s or less, the connection slows to a crawl.

 

Intel 'Optane Acceleration' is done via BIOS Advanced RST configuration.

 

It's true though. It doesn't change the read or write speeds of the thing, no? It simply improves cache access time, so it finds what it wants on the SSD faster. So like... sure things might start up faster, but if you've gotta load a crapton of 4K QD1 data, it's going to take the same amount of forever as before.

 

Not sure you know this but just install the driver file via the Device Manager rather than the whole suit. I haven't had a problem with the Killer Wifi.

 

I am trying to decide if this model represents value to me or not, hence the questions.

I thought perhaps the killer network features may be useful, but appears not - WIN 10 does not support teaming of the nics (as i have read elsewhere) so there is no benefit to me from this killer networking - its touted as some big advantage but in reality it does not seem to do much more then prioritise traffic if you set it up like that.

The twin TB3 ports are fed from one controller - so if both TB3 ports are connected to thier own respective external RAID array then traffic speeds would be split between ports rather then each port move its own 20 odd Gbps each - so no real reason to have 2 TB3 ports if moving lots of data back and forth off and on the laptop is my goal. A Laptop with 1 x TB3 port will do the same thing for my particular needs. (need to move LARGE files off and on the laptop as fast as possible)

Seems to me the only things are its a new chassis design so the most current design - if that is important to anyone.

It has the Z270 chipset onboard with the advantage to that being that it provides 4 extra pcie lanes and is "Optane" ready and that the extra 4 pcie lanes allow the extra M2 slot. So able to have 3 x M2 slots instead of 2. That to me IS a BIG deal, but its quite a premium to pay for an extra M2 slot.

Thinking of getting an external TB3 enclosure and a Amfeltec squid card to house 4 x m2 slots so that i can run an extra 4 x NVM PCI-e SSD's as TB3 is essentially an extension of the pcie bus on a wire. So this approach is an option. See here for how this works out. http://barefeats.com/tricktb3b.html

So does it make sense to go for a lessor Clevo with 2 x M2 and 2 x 2.5" with 64GB Ram and go for external TB 3 enclosure OR spend that enclosure money on the latest clevo with the extra M2 on board = because honestly thats the only reason i see to go for this latest Clevo.

I dont know if 3 x M2 SSD's raided together are going to be faster onboard or if there will be a speed drop to an external M2 NVME PCI-e RAID array connected to via TB3. I think its a wash either way.

My use is for video encoding - so lots of big fat files to move onto the laptop, be worked on and exported. I have no intention to game on this machine - i dont know where you guys get the time to game ..lucky you. My days are full working, no time for games. But it seems for video work on a laptop, a gaming laptop is the way forward.

I am not wanting to stir any controversy here - these are honest questions i am asking myself and looking to answer - hopefully with input from those with real on the ground experience - owners of the laptops i am considering