*** Official Clevo P870KM1/P870KM1-G/Sager NP9876 Owner's Lounge! - Phoenix 3.0 ***

some news
P870KM/P870KM1=>upgrade P870DM2/P870DM3
some upgrade
1.LAN E2400=>E2500
2.chipest Z170->Z270
3.three M2 NVME SSD
SSD=>3*NVME SSD or 2*SATA SSD
look not some different a lot
Heatsink the same P870DM2=>P870KM/P870DM3=>P870KM1

 

I need to also remind you that since NVMe drives and TB3 both run through the DMI, you only have 4GB/s of actual transfer bandwidth... if you're trying to do transfers on and off at the same time, you're going to split bandwidth between TB3 and NVMe. And if you use SATA, then transfers will be significantly slower, and waste your NVMe external enclosure speed.

I would say that the extra budget on the KM1 is not worth it over the DM3 unless you specifically want Z270 and that extra M.2 slot, which I don't think you really need. And further to that, as you say, a single TB3 port should do your job well enough.

 

I feel some people just don't like to say that Clevo failed many customers by doing a major changes in a very short time without any calculations of the customers reactions what it will be. I think they have some kind of mismanagement, it's not about the capabilities. just a thought.

 

Yeah i think you are right - i wanna love the KM1 but just not seeing the value. Yes its nice to have that 3rd M2 but at what cost. If i do go KM1 i would run OS from one of the NVME SSD's and RAID the other 2 NVME's together and run large SATA III 6GB/s in each of the 2.5" bays. Nice way to go.

But money is always an issue.

I also like that Aikito external housing and the Amfeltec 4 x M2 card. As Barefeats demonstrates, 2 x NVME's will saturate the x4 link. The extra 2 NVME SSD's dont add extra speed (the TB3 limit is already hit with 2 x NVME SSD's) but they do help with latency.

Not sure which way to jump here.

 

Looks like they only updated it so that people can't say Clevo uses old Z170...

 

I for one will never purchase a Clevo anymore, at least for the near future until they change these things:

1- Will never want to ever want to type on their crappy/cramped keyboards which are the worse keyboards I ever used on any laptop in my life! See: Clevo makes the worst laptop keyboard EVER!
2- I will not support or buy anything from a company that does not offer a proper drivers download page with download speeds averaging 25KB/S and many disconnections / downloading again with my download manager to get 1 download finished that would take anywhere from 1-5 hours depending on the driver file size. Hello 2017, we're no in the Dial up age anymore. Sure, Sager's site has fast downloads, but they are usually outdated drivers compared to the ones Clevo offers
3- I will not support a company that makes users beg and look around trying to find the latest BIOS/EC Firmware. If it wasn't for Prema, I wouldn't know where else to get these updates (legally from the manufacturer site that is)
4-For offering such high end laptops, the least they could do is offer good heatsinks that make good contact with the CPU. It's a matter of luck with a Clevo laptop to get a good heatsink or a poor one, making the use of thin pastes like Liquid Ultra a hit or miss which has to be remedied by using inferior paste like IC Diamond which is thicker to fill in the gap.

 

1. That's a very valid point for user which have the need for a specific style/layout etc... lot of wasted space on the 17" models.
2+3. Clevo doesn't sell to end-user nor do they provide any direct support. Their driver download page is just a last resort.
The re-seller are responsible to offer driver/bios updates to their customer. Clevo takes good care of providing their importers with the latest and greatest and I think we have a bunch of very dedicated ones around to take care of us by passing them on.

 

You are an icon for Clevo community for so long, When you switched from Clevo team to MSI team, I said, Clevo will lose huge credibility.
In the same time I found @Mr. Fox reviewing the new F5 from Eurocom, then I said... the time that Clevo will pay for not listening and not changing is arrived.
Big icons and supporters are leaving Clevo now.

 

@ phoneix, But we do have perma, so for now at least things are fine.

I have never used a Clevo keyboard but you know what? I have learnt the hard way NOT to use the laptop keyboard - I use an external keyboard as my every day driver - use lappy key board when away from home/office and on this power pig of a laptop how feasible is that really? For me this is a desktop replacement that can move between home to office and back, with the ability to go remote on the rare occasion i need to do that. I can live with the clevo keyboard under that scenario.

I have found the best thing is to leave the laptop keyboard/trackpad as unused and pristine as possible for longest life of laptop. So i use the externals - works out best for me the way i use a laptop. YMMV

 

Is the TB3 running off the DMI on the Z270 chipset?

 

1. I'm with you in that Clevo's keyboards for their high-end models (P775/P870) suck. The one on my P670RS is actually quite good. I was at my local MicroCenter today, where they had a GT73 Titan on display. I tried out its keyboard and didn't think it was any better than my P670. Here's the thing: The P670 and its siblings are designed to be more portable, and thus would have their built-in keyboards used more often. Their heavier flagship models are desktop replacements in the truest sense, so I'm betting the engineers figured it more prudent to put R&D into the guts since owners are probably more likely to use an external keyboard.

2/3. See what Prema said above. XMG does a great job of putting out BIOS and EC updates. When us P6XXRS owners were having issues with high CPU usage when connected to an external monitor, a fix was provided in what I would consider a fairly reasonable time frame - it wasn't more than a week or so from the time the issue was widely reported.

 

But if you check the Drivers download page of Sager and Eurocom, they are ancient drivers compared to Clevo's. No other reseller offers driver downloads, hence why I had to waste hours and days maintaining the Drivers Mirror Pages as you know

It's not the end of the world for what the machine offers, but when I pay a premium for a taptop, the least I can expect is a proper drivers download page and BIOS updates like every other manufacturer in the world

sorry if it seems like I am nit picking here, but I am a perfectionist

 

oh yes, I forgot about XMG, their drivers are more up to date than Sager and Eurocom at least and they are the only company that does offer BIOS updates publicly. Thank God for that

About the P6xxx series, it surprises me how a smaller laptop has superior keyboard. Heck, give me that keyboard in the larger brothers and I would be happy with their well spaced chiclet keyboards. The wasted space on the bigger machiens is a big disappointment though

 

Thank you my friend.

Trust me, Clevo could care less if me, Mr. Fox, Poopoosan, and the rest of other enthusiasts switch to MSI or any other brand. At the end of the day, they sell their laptops like hot cakes to other resellers/system builders since they're just an ODM and have no customer service or anyone looking at customers' concerns.

do you honestly think Clevo gives a darn about this thread for example?
Feedback to Clevo R&D Team: What's missing or broken in your Skylake laptops?
Wishes and Expectations for Clevo [2017 Edition]

 

We aren't Clevo's largest consumer base, though. Not even close. Mr. Fox (and myself) have never had any brand loyalty. We get what we consider the best. As I keep saying all the time, Clevo's primary problems are bad software. Their hardware design in itself is among the best if not the best, and software can be fixed. For machines which have hardware design issues (like older ASUS models that take a couple hours to disassemble far enough that you could do so much as clean your fans) they can never improve.

But yes, Clevo has a lot of work to do. I care about products that work. Maybe they'll start pressuring foxcomm to make heatsinks proper to the engineering specs, or switch vendors. Maybe they'll start using better keyboards (they did use Steelseries keyboards in the past, on the HM and EM series... but then they stopped). Maybe they'll stop crippling their BIOSes by default. But until then they're on a shaky foundation at the top. MSI could take that crown if they cared (but are proving they don't care). Nobody else cares either, they're just racing to the thinnest notebook they can make without it internally combusting.

We'll see how things go. The number of us are still so small; HID claimed they had a couple dozen BIOSes to flash for the P870DMx models. That means probably not even 100 of them sold from HID. We're not exactly a massive community. But who knows? We've had lots of success in the past with getting them to change things for the better since Prema started his threads. Maybe things may improve soon.

 

Sager definitely needs to do a better job of keeping its software downloads up to date since they're pretty much the de-facto Clevo distributor in North America. If you can get a connection to Clevo's North American server, the downloads are actually reasonably quick - the problem is that said server only appears to be online for 15 minutes at night (in the Central time zone) during a full moon.

 

I'm always on the move brah, I don't like having anything external other than a mouse

 

other than the Asia server, nothing works, the download doesn't even start on the US Server even if I'm on a VPB connected to a US Server

From their Asia server, the download starts at 100KB/S then drops to 20 Kb/S then disconnects after a few mins, so I have to then connect to the VPN to get a new IP and resume the download, otherwise it won't even resume from my same IP. After another disconnection, I have to switch back with no VPN. I do this all day long till the file finally downloads after 5-6 hours (talking about large downloads)

 

thanks for reminding me about the flimsy heatsinks, I'll add it to the list

 

Buy the Clevo P870KM1/P870KM1-G full loaded for $7000 today to have the best of the best, and I assure you that you will find your laptop is not up to date within weeks. Before we can see new models appear every 2 years then 1 year, now it seems every month

 

yeah like I shelled out 7K for my P870DM3 only to discover 2 weeks later that the KM1 was released with more storage slots available which I desperately needed?

First, I got screwed when the P870DM3 came out and my P870DM couldn't have the GPU upgraded. So like an idiot, I sold my old Eurocom Sky X9 for $1200 USD dirt cheap and upgraded to the P870DM3 then got screwed again

 

A very few hardcore power enthusiasts will leave Clevo and go low powered Jokebooks. This isn't a alternative. Rather desktops than soldered hardware!!

Everyone knowed Z270 was about to be released(with the 3rd M.2). Of course CLEVO needed to push this chipset revision.

 

I thought someone like you should be well connected to the manufacturers and big dealers, if you don't know this is something strange, if the dealers also don't know then we have a problem, and I'll never say they know and they do not want to tell us, because this is will be a disaster.

 

Can't we already have like 12TB (2x2TB M.2 2x4TB SSD)? internally on the current P870DM model?
Isn't that enough if you can add unlimited-ish-space with external drives (USB3/TB3) while at a desk?

 

I am well connected trust me! look at all the new models owner's lounges threads including this one, I was the OP and posted the info when the laptop was not even with the resellers to sell. But this KM1 came as a surprise 2 weeks after I bought mine.

 

I think they will leave Clevo to the new DTR like the Tornado F5 not to the Jokebooks, and if they did, it will be be for a short time, anyone feel the power of the real DTR will not accept the least.

 

This is kind of not Clevo's issue. You could at least drop a 7700K in your DM3, unlike the Skylake GT73VR users.

I can't see how the KM1 is you being screwed over. It's using the Z270 chipset, which is upgraded with 4 extra PCI/e 3.0 lanes for a third M.2 slot that is NVMe capable. Let me spell this out so we're 100,000% clear here:

Even if you had a DESKTOP with a Z170 chipset, you would still be required to change your motherboard to get that extra M.2 slot. It's intel you should be blaming here, rather than Clevo.

This is the only thing I've seen you complain about that isn't really legitimate. The GPUs and CPUs and RAM that could be used haven't changed, only that one M.2 slot (and making CERTAIN that you have to use Windows 10).

 

fair enough, that makes sense

D2 Ultima pwns Phoenix in this post

 

You still should know every single ODM/OEM's needed to push out Z270 with Kaby lake processors. And with new chipset the extra opportunity for the 3rd M.2 NVMe.

 

It seems that Clevo it self not well connected, and Intel screwed it poor Clevo

 

I just give credit where due and take where it isn't~

Clevo has enough problems I could write multiple lists (see any post I've made in a Clevo feedback thread) but sometimes, it isn't them. I've also backed off the heat from MSI & Clevo with respect to the GPU design changes since Prema explained about it to us. Though I feel they could have done a bit better with the card designs for compatibility with the DM model, at least it's now supposed to be a standard for all future models.

 

At least Clevo sticks to one Pascal MXM design in all their systems and are going to for the next wave as well.
e.g. MSI uses 4 different MXM variants only for the 1080, you can't even upgrade from a single GPU to an SLI model and re-use the existing card, even if it's the same TGP model GPU, as they are often missing the SLI connector.

 

After all, I do respect Clevo so much for almost 20 years, the point or the message I and many wants to deliver to Clevo, that please care about our feedback, suggestions and our findings about you for your own good before our own desires.

 

Yes, but in the same time, we have to remember that when we need to upgrade GPU's in some Clevo models sometimes we are using MSI cards and Clevo didn't do it for it self, I wonder why they didn't?!

 

Clevo cut from the past in order to have a consistent design base for the future.
MSI neither went for a single 'future proof' format, nor made it compatible with the old gen out of the box by unnecessarily using odd formats, DIE positions and omitting SLI connector on many versions.
Their only MXM-B Plug'n'Play Pascal design is their 1060 and yet it's missing SLI as well (though due to NVIDIA spec). Have it right here and love it, good job on that one!

In an ideal world we would have 1060 & 1070 in original MXM-B format with only the 1080 adding an external power connector and instead of having altered/new MXM board layouts only the Notebook shell-space and cooling designs prepared to be Plug'n'Play with future HBM-layouts, larger DIEs and more power.

 

Still, the Tornado F5 isn't the option for a lot of us due the smaller size. Maybe if a MSI barbones come in 17 inches size, but we aren't there yet. There isn't any choices outside Clevo or you need to go for a home build desktop. This is pure fact!!

 

Plus it's a nice layout looking from an engineering perspective for signals and power delivery.

 

ok so found one VERY OBSCURE reason to use 2 x TB3 ports..... peer to peer networking

https://thunderbolttechnology.net/sites/default/files/Thunderbolt™ Networking Bridging and Routing Instructional White Paper.pdf

would anyone here use this?

I suppose this could be useful....maybe

 

The 17" model will be available soon, I hope that other brands like Acer, Asus and the Alienware decide to go for a DTR, as much as we have competitors as much as we have a good quality with a reasonable prices.

If Clevo care about their loyal customers they can provide upgrades kits since the P570wm or even provide any kind of deals for the P870dm and DM2/3 owners to upgrade their barbones to the KM1, anythinggggggg makes us feel that they even think about us, or anything maintain the trust.
Any high end technology brands even from other industries must have some kind of commitment to their clients, sharing the risk of any surprised changes, we are not saying do not change to the new technologies, we are saying they must share that with us to be fair and more respectable.

 

Thank you for sharing this information, I can get benefits of it in my organization, is it available now so I can test it?.

 

Its part of ThunderBolt. With TB3 you get 10Gbps networking fabric built in.

I suppose this could be useful at home with 2 PC's connected to a NAS in the middle or in other words, a TB3 NAS between two TB3 hosts to have a two Node with shared storage config. That could be very useful for a home office.

 

Do not think this will happen. Some want more. Upgradability mean less in the checkout. Acer, Asus and especially Alienware is in front of this.


And Mr. Azor aka Mr. Dellienware has said repeatedly that socket hardware will make their systems of a lower quality!!



He expressed himself also for short time ago in one of their promo videos that MMX graphics are totally unwanted in their machines JOKEBOOKS.

Spoiler: THIS MAKE ME TO....

PUKE!!

 

They really should fire this guy

 

Probably time to amend your review accordingly because a 9/10 doesn't reflect this sentiment.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/evoc-p870dm3-review-by-phoenix.798685/

1) I've had no issues. IMO it's better than the m18x r2 I had and that was still fine for me. It's also as good as the Asus and HP I had years ago. I only wish the right Shift was full size. I'd actually prefer the new Tornado F5 keyboard in a larger size for the DM3 - it looks like something I'd actually like. I'm not once to go all 'ga-ga' for Cherry keys but I understand so many people love them. It's all very subjective so each to their own here. My weapon of choice for an external keyboard is actually the Apple wireless KB... how about that

2) Yeah it's somewhat an embarrassment although I don't care too much.

3) as per @Prema

4) Now here is something that NEEDS to be addressed ASAP. My friend is going to buy a high end machine next month. I wish I could guarantee his machine would come with HS contact like mine. Right now most high end Clevo's are truly for "tinker-ers" in my view. People who are going to delid, take matters into their own hands, and make them sing. The rewards are there, but not everyone is prepared or feels they should need to seek them out.



@Papusan Yes.. Mr Frank Azor is certainly full of s#it. He knows their new systems are full of compromise but can't say anything about it or their plan to shake their customers down every generation and kill upgradablility.

Spoiler

 

We have a serious attacks hitting our organization those days and we need to take backups many times per day offline and away from the main network, so maybe this can help us to connect the backup devices to our servers directly using this technology and get advantage of it's data transfer speed. That's why I need to know more about it.
Thank you anyway for your kind reply.

 

The guy up side down looks like someone I know, and he is with us in NBR, I'm wondering "who is" could be that guy?!

 

will your servers have TB3 onboard? Its not a matter of simply adding a TB3 expansion card to the server - the motherboard needs TB3 headers as well. Its probably way too early for TB3 networking in the workplace. But i see tis as useful for a home office with only a few nodes sharing a TB3 NAS

 

After he spent $7000 from his pocket and finished his review, few days and they released the new KM1, what do you expect his feelings will be, not only him all DM2/3 owners as well?! who knows maybe there is a KM2 next week?
Someone like @Phoenix wants always to own the best and the latest regardless what it cost, they are a technology lovers, so did Clevo or even their dealers respect that segment of users?!
From my opinion, some people like @Prema , @Mr. Fox , @Phoenix , @Johnksss , @svl7 , @D2 Ultima and many others, sorry if I forget someone, "I don't yet understand who is the users and who is the sellers", for those kind of customers the dealers should give them the laptops up to date for free or with a super super special price for what they are doing, investing their own money, lot of efforts, time and support for all members all over the world, they should be awarded for what they are doing to makes those laptops sold. And in some cases they should even pay them a respectable amounts.

 

Intel: 10nm Cannon Lake PCs will start shipping in 2017
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer...m-cannon-lake-pcs-will-start-shipping-in-2017

 

That's not the point - I'm refering to his Review then, and complaints now - namely the Keyboard and Heatsink.

Besides, @Phoenix already knew of a KM1 at the time of he purchased DM3 That's fair game.The KM1 is barely any different to the DM3. You can't expect Clevo not to evolve their platform or offer a free motherboard upgrade just to get 1 extra m.2 slot.

• What we don't want is for them to change their MXM GPU design and block us from upgrades.