*** Official Clevo W230ST/Sager NP7330 Owner's Lounge ***

Completely off topic but i assume a lot of people here have a career in IT... who's got some tips for me to get started in IT, im doing the CompTIA courses now...

 

Go freelance, learn a specialty and work on your own.

It's been a long time since we saw a BIOS update, I hope they will still try to update the fan table, but I'm a bit worried they won't now :'(

 

So start my own business? and the best place to learn a speciality is from the CompTIA courses ?

 

Dunno what your compTIA courses are, I learn by myself with web courses.
Beeing freelance is not really your own business, other businesses are your clients : Freelancer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But this conversation has nothing to do here, if you need more info start a thread, that's what it's intended for

 

There are ways to get in, you need to find the one that suits you, if courses work then so be it.

 

Hey guys,

I got a problem with games using DirectX 11 (already experienced with Deus Ex: HR, Civ 5 and lately Banished).
When loading the game with DirectX 11, my external monitor switches from 1920x1080 @ 60 hz to 30 hz. It looks like as if it switches to Interlaced Mode as the resolution is really stretched, text and all contours are too sharp to be read/hurt in the eyes. If I switch back to DirectX 9.0c, everything works flawlessly (as it's starting at 60hz).

Newest NVidia Drivers are installed, DirectX 11 as well of course.

Does anybody have an idea or experienced the same issues?

Thank you in advance!

 

Part of the problem is probably vsync, make sure that's turned off. Not sure about resolution stretch problem though. I'd give the vsync a try and see if that fixes both.

 

Turning VSync off doesn't fix it unfortunately :-(

 

Are other resolutions working fine ? Is FHD working fine on your laptop screen ?
Sounds like you have drivers issue with your ext.monitor to me, you could try uninstalling it.

 

Odd. When installing those drivers are you doing clean installs or just updating them?

 

vsync doesn't control resolution or refresh-rate, it just controls how (well, when) frames are rendered.

 

If vsync is enabled and the machine is not able to achieve the 60 fps to match that 60hz refresh it'll go down to the next common denominator at lower refresh and lower FPS. Just a suggestion as it sounded like it'd fix one problem but as noted above in my post wasn't sure what the cause of the second problem was. Didn't work though, so if you have any suggestions yourself, feel free to contribute.

 

That was kinda helpful. I tried the internal screen on DirectX 11 - and everything is working like a charm.
Somehow, switching to DirectX 11 causes my external screen to go haywire... Have deinstalled the monitor driver but didn't do anything unfortunately :-( (using HDMI just if someone is wondering)

At least the W230ST is not guilty

 

I already told him where I think the problem is

But no, vSync doesn't work that way, it won't alter the refresh rate of the screen.

If the machine isn't fast enough to provide 60 fps (for 60hz refresh rate), it will scale on 30fps and only display a rendered scene on 1 out of 2 screen refreshes.
Or 20fps if it can't provide 30, or 15 if it can't provide 20, etc.

You may have more luck trying to fix intel gpu drivers, as those are the ones who handle the HDMI output.
In last resort, there's at least one software that may fix your problem, I used that a few years back for another purpose, I just can't remember the name right now, I'll get back at you =)


edit : got it, that was powerstrip : http://entechtaiwan.com/util/ps.shtm
very powerfull stuff, used it a lot on CRT monitors, dunno if it can help but it's maybe worth a try if you can't find anything simpler.

 

Is it worth upgrading from the NP6110 to the NP7330 now, or should I wait for a newer model <14", <5lb gaming laptop to come out.. ?

..or is that just wishful thinking, and waiting for hell to freeze over might be more realistic?

p.s. if you suggest a tablet instead, I suggest you shoot yourself in the face with a water pistol. :thumbsup:

 

I would wait personally if i could just now.

 

I don't know, it's best bang for bucks right now and nothing better was already announced, so it's unlikely we see something really better before at least this summer, or even end of the year.

 

It's up to you of course. It is a good system as it stands.

 

i wonder how will this little beast run watch dogs

 

I'm torn between the i5-4200M and the i7-4700Mq. I'm planning on using this computer for the next 4 or 5 years as a Computer Engineering/ Electrical Engineering student t at college. I will be doing programming and engineering on it, but I'm getting this computer for LAN parties as well. Which would be the better option? The i7 is an extra $75 from exotic, which isn't huge but it's a concern. I already have an SSD, so the $75 wouldn't go anywhere except my bank account. I am concerned about the i7's temps, as this machine will never have Windows on it (no XTU under clocking). For my day to day uses, will the i5 be okay long-term? According to HTwingnut's thread, I'd trade heat and cost for performance. Is it a worthy trade?

 

Thanks for the responses. If I didn't already have a laptop, I'd go for it now. Hmm.. and the NP7330 has been out for quite a while now (10 months?)... I better go back and look at some more comparisons between the two again.

 

Question.. I didn't really want to sift through 350+ pages for an answer, so apologies if this is a repeat, but is the 1920x1080 res on a 13.3" screen a bit tough on the eyes?

 

The i5-4200M is a dual-core processor while the i7-4700MQ is a quad core processor. You could get the i7-4702MQ for reduced TDP while also being quad-core. Also, when using Prema's modded BIOS you can use Intel XTU to undervolt your processor, so there is some savings as far as temperatures are concerned there.

I would go for the quad-core, it will cost you more in the future to put the i7 in, and since you are programming, the extra cores might help with your compile times.

Doesn't bother me, though you can always change your resolution to like 1600x900 or change the scaling in Windows to suit you.

 

Epp sorry, one other question on the NP7330; the one thing I don't like much is the silvery/light grey inside casing. I think the darker grey (like NP6110) looks better and hides fingerprints and other marks much more effectively. Has this been an issue for any of you NP7330 owners?

I kinda wish Sager/Clevo would put out an update of the NP6110 (11.6").. but with a much better screen and updated CPU/GPU...

 

The 1080p on this screen is fine, and the screen is great btw. I was worried about this same issue before buying, especially since my old Dell Studio 1555 (from like 2009) was 1080p and a little tough on the eyes at times. But this is somehow an improvement even though its a smaller screen and same resolution. So point is... no, it's not an issue for the eyes.

 

i7 all the way

 

Sounds like the i7 is the way to go, the 4702 is interesting. I'll message Xotic and see if they could throw a 4702 in for around the same price. If not, i'll probably go for the 4700.

Thanks

 

Ok thanks. I guess the NP7330 screen has a higher ppi than earlier series? The screen on the NP6110 was (is) the one real let down, even with a lower native resolution.. just not the best quality, sadly.

 

Yes the resolution is 1080p.

 

You can set text size in windows to 110%, 125% (default, which is why koolvic found it less stressful than its dell), 150%, etc.
I run it @110% & I do find it a bit though on the eyes at times.

You can use Prema's BIOS to underclock, but as of now you need XTU to undervolt.

 

Yes you can scale though not all programs will behave with scaling.

 

Definetely the 4700. For that amount of money you have always the chance to use the extra cores, plus you can disable it using Prema mod and Intel XTU whenever you want.
Temps are just fine, and if you are not ok with it, just repaste with a good product and enjoy.

 

Hi Guys,

I am on the verge of clicking the buy button for one of these at PCSpecialist (UK). However, I have a couple of concerns / questions which I would like some input on before hitting the big red purchase button.

Q) Under load, just how loud is it? I cant find any vids to give an idea of just how loud it is when gaming but the reviews concern me that it might sound a bit like a fighter jet taking off when playing Diablo 3 or whatever. I would spec it with some better quality thermal compound (Arctic MX4) to try to keep temps down and probably run with a Coolermaster U3 cooler most of the time.


Q) I have lots of CPU options an want to keep the price down. Would an i3-4100M 2.5GHz bottleneck the GPU, if so how about an i5-4200M 2.5GHz as it can turbo upto 3GHz, or do I really need to fork out for a quad core i7-4700MQ 2.4GHz (Turbo 3Ghz)? I know that more is better, and obviously the i7 is the best choice, but do I really need it for general gaming on this thing?

Q) This one is subjective, but is it a solid enough piece of kit to survive taking 50+ flights a year? Obviously it would be in a bag with a decent padded sleeve etc, but I have killed many laptops by traveling with them and need some reassurance that this is built properly.

Cheers guys!

Will

 

No louder than other gaming notebooks. The best thermal paste is ic diamond applied by yourself.

The duals will do but if its a small price bump to quad then go for it if you can.

So long as you dont drop it the build quality will do fine handling lots of normal use.

 

I disagree, build quality is the worst I've ever had.
It's fine as long as you take good care of it of course.... and it LOOKS sturdy, but will break so easily at the slightest problem...
Corners, screen frame, the LCD itself, the backcover, palmrest, touchpad, it's all crap. This laptop I'm really afraid to drop.
And the guy wanted to know how it will handle shocks I assume, since he said he killed a few laptops during transits.
I'll show you guys later today, or tomorrow.

 

LOL. You should be afraid to drop any laptop. They're not designed for that. If you want that buy a Toughbook or an accidental warranty. Because even the most robust laptops are at risk of significant damage from even a small drop. And any laptop that can only take superficial surface damage but keep working fine is a win in my book. Yes, ideally a laptop should be able to take some rough handling, but designing something that still works after a drop requires a lot of design time and expensive materials.

My W230ST has traveled with me a lot, and other than some surface wear it's held up quite well.

I'm not sure what you mean by "corners, screen frame, LCD itself, backcover"... The LCD isn't designed to take any abuse, that's just the nature of it, that there aren't more LCD's broken is a miracle IMHO. And unless you're disassembling the LCD frequently or putting large heavy objects on the laptop, it shouldn't sustain any damage.

I see people carrying their $1500+ laptops around like it's their school lunch box and then wonder how/why it breaks. If you spend decent coin on a semi-fragile object, then treat it as such. Put it in its own padded bag, and don't sit on it, throw it in your car, put other heavy objects on it. I blame the owner, not the laptop manufacturer.

 

My toaster isn't designed to be dropped, yet it can be dropped over and over and won't suffer. The same goes for my SD cards, my PCI expansion cards, CPU or RAM. And those didn't need special design nor expensive materials to allow this. However I will express myself clearer, since (once again......) you enjoy going against anything that I'm throwing at those forums, I'm talking of course about very small drops. I may have used the word 'shock' instead, if it pleases you better.
I've owned a few laptops in the past, few Acer, Clevo w110er, Dell..... Never took great care of them, and NONE broke in the way this one does. So I'm simply expressing my view on the subject, if you can prove it wrong, please make a video showing a very small drop (let's say 10cm) of your w230 on its rear corner for example, and I will LOL back at you.

That's why I wrote I will explain better later, I'll put some pictures as well.

Yes, the LCD is the only part (except for HDDs) that is very fragile by nature, true.
BUT I believe it doesn't take any abuse to have it broken. I experienced this while.... opening the lid. Yep, you heard me, my LCD broke while I was opening the lid, holding its side/corner instead of the center.
Maybe it was defective, or maybe another small shock fragilized it before, it's very possible so I may be wrong about this one, but another member experienced the same huh... "crack" on its LCD.
So I'm being cautious here.

My usage is not the point. To each his own, and while you seem easily frightened to actually use your laptop in real world scenarios, I'm not.
I've dropped many of them without any damage (still not talking about big drops here, but very small ones).
Other laptops I've had could be thrown in a car without worrying (well, unless you worry easily), as long as they didn't have a turned on mechanical hdd it's usually fine.

Other laptops won't get their lid bended when being exposed to +30°C temps.

The problem is not huge, it's certainly not the worst laptop in that department, but I can't let people say it's solid and will handle being thrown around by airport's employees fine for sure.

To summarize the problem with your answer, and I hope end this futile debate, the guy isn't asking how to handle a laptop, or what he can or cannot do with it.
He's asking how this laptop handles shocks, and how it compares to others in that department.
So unless you actually experienced shocks and rude handling as I did, I suggest you refrain yourself from arguing uselessly.

 

So, I got this laptop a week ago. And so far it seems pretty darn great! although chrome is a little blurry with the 1080p screen. I tried doing that trick where you check "disable high dpi scaling" or whatever it is. But the bookmarks and tabs become way too small. Also tried fiddling with the scaling via Windows (moving from 150% to 125 or 100) but this made the rest of windows too small. Oh well, i'll just live with it i guess.

The other major problem i have with it is battery life. I was under the impression I could get well over 3 hours (3.5-4hrs) if i put it into power saver. Well right now, i've turned off the backlit keyboard, configured the power saver to maximise battery (limit processor speeds and everything) as well as disabled the nvidia GPU and batterybar says "3 hours total run time" i've had it on for about 1/2 hour. I tried aeroplane mode which made almost no diffference. Only got chrome and onenote open.

I've undervolted it about 88mv on the processor, CPU cache and GPU too. Didnt change the multiplier though, didn't understand what effect that has on battery/performance (i still want to game when connected to power). And also didnt fiddle with turbo boost short power max or power max at all and same with processor current limit.

any help would be greatly appreciated! thanks!

 

It's based on stats, so won't be accurate until you give it enough time to adjust.
Use your laptop and see by yourself how much time you really get.

 

it's getting a little better but will probably only get 3:15 MAX with absolutely everything i can think of. UVolted, no nvidia GPU, no backlight, airplane mode, min brightness, almost nothing running and power saver mode.

maybe i had a bit high expectations when i read 4+ hours on some forums (even up to 5!! )

 

Not really, I'm getting 4h+ on battery, first check how much you get (and not how much it tells you you'll get), then if it's less than 4h check your battery (real) capacity, and your power drawn, maybe something's wrong with your setup as well.

 

okay, im chugging away through the power. i'll let you know how it goes.

how do i check my real battery capacity and power drawn? batterybar says, 60,795mWh (2.2% battery wear).

running windows 8.1. i could try restarting it, recharging it and trying again tomorrow i guess.

 

ah, i think i may have figured it out.

i've put it back into high performance, put the back lit key board on and put the brightness up and CRUCIALLY I enabled nvidia optimus. and battery has improved. Before i had disabled the nvidia card. I think this meant the intel was struggling and using up battery or something.

i'll keep tweaking it around to confirm it was that and not something else

 

How did you disable the dGPU ?
If this was from windows devices management, you didn't disable it, you disabled its drivers, which means it's turned on all the time.

 

via nVIdia control panel.

 

I take it you set the nvidia drivers to always use the IGP? Whoops, but at least nothing is wrong

 

Thanks for the input guys - my take away is that if I treat it carefully, itll survive. But based on the fact I have a habbit of killing laptops due to travel, it might not last.... but the same is true for every machine in the class so Ill just have to be careful

With regards to the CPU I think I will save 70 GBP and get an i5, that should do the job and based on what I have read run fairly cool too.

I am still really worried about the noise though. Opinion seems to be so varied. Have Clevo sorted out the random fan bursts for no reason yet? And when gaming, it is on 100% the whole time or does it run at 70% and only burst upto 100% fan speed every now and then? I 'really' want to buy the 13.3 Clevo, but this issue worries me so much that I am seriously debating the MSI 14 inch G40/1492 instead - it only had the GTX650M and 720P screen but I have read less issues about noise with it.

 

Not sure G40 would be better, MSI users are used to a lot of noise, no ?
Fan bursts are not really random but very annoying for sure. It's a tad better than on product launch, but still present.
Problem is fan won't gradually step up, it will quickly burst as soon as the cpu is a bit loaded, even if it's not that hot.

Few guys told us they were working on it, but since we didn't hear from them since a long time, I assume they failed to tweak this.

It's not that big an issue if you repaste correctly though. It is never 100% neither, only if you hit the full-fan shortcut. While gaming, I think it's 70/80% all the time, but hard to tell since game sounds will usually mostly cover it.

The problem is not the loudness, but the stepping. I think you'd have a tough time finding a more silent notebook.

 

I think the thing with the G40 is that it comes on in stages rather than quiet quiet quiet BOOM. That said, I have been reading up on the G40 today and have reached the conclusion that it has its own problems with overheating etc so it doesnt make a huge difference what one I go for so I may as well take the Clevo route as I get more power for not much more money.

I cant find any alternatives which are in the price range which will be much more quiet and offer the same / similar level of power so I think the Clevo, whilst noisy, is probably the best of the bunch. If all I have to do is re-paste it every now and then I can live with that. If however its always whiring like a fighter jet when I am playing Diablo 3 Expansion then it will have to go back. From what you have said, it wont be any worse than my old XPS 702x which would kick the fans on to about 80% when gaming - it was noticable but miles away from a hairdryer.

 

I went from the NP6110 to the NP7330. (sold my NP6100 here) and it was a night and day upgrade. The GPU on this is way more powerful and the CPU will turbo when gaming (the NP 6110 wouldnt do that unless you used throttlestop) The keyboard and LCD size are way better and I dont have the squint to play games. The LCD quality is 100000x better than the NP6110. I hated the netted look on the NP6110.

The fact that you can run 2x mSATA and a 2.5 drive in this machine plus the bigger screen and way better screen (IPS and Matte LCD at 1080p) and the GPU is way more capable, the keyboard is bigger and has backlighting. (this unit came out mid July so its 7 months old) I recommend this to any NP6110 user that wants a better machine. (but still doesnt want a 15 incher laptop)