*** Official Clevo X170SM-G/Sager NP9670M Owner's Lounge ***

Aw15m test unit results, might improve too before the the final retail unit.

 

I wouldn't be comfortable seeing my cpu reach 100c The alienware looks so nice, shame about the internals...

 

Who says the internals of R2 are flawed the same way as R1? The specs don´t look flawed to me. If the video card had 180W tdp max and it throttled above 75C then it would be flawed, but it seems no one knows so far. Now I know this is not a popular attitude here, but I can say the looks and haptics of my R1 blows my P870 out of the water, I can´t even look at the Clevo anymore. And with the 200W vbios and the hwinfo trick to avoid temp throttling the only thing that bothers me is the low ram speed.

 

R2@32GB 3200 ram speed. Dell made their refreshed LGA gaming flagship more equal it's thinner BGA siblings. And how long will you all be able to trick your machines to avoid temp throttling? Dell will continue close more and more doors. Started so nice and kind with firmware crippling, now with their proprietary software. They will continue harden the lock out.

And the same for all their models... http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-win-update-bios.831450/page-29#post-11025429

 

Looks are subjective, but performance stands the test of time. It's Dellawares business practices that most of us disagree with, but that shouldn't stop you enjoying your R2. People have been around long enough to become jaded due to where that company was and where it is now. Now, those who know what DTRs are capable of and how far they can be pushed, hold the Clevo torch lit. We may be at an impasse on some topics, but it doesn't mean that we are fanboying for one side or the other. We, and I think I speak for some of the others on here, we respect and appreciate performance, regardless of the logo on the bezel.

 

Exactly, performance is the priority regardless of the brand

Clevo just knows how the get the most out of what it’s got...

 

You forgot upgradeability. And not everyone will feeel well being screwed!


https://twitter.com/aw_umar/status/1214950201183617025?s=20

 

The problem with Clevo is they stopped moving forward. The P870 was the last noteworthy product and is now outdated regarding looks and technology (rtx anyone?). And by the way, P870 is also not upgradeable to an extend it makes sense to in fact do it. The most important component imho, the video card, can not be upgraded to a rtx model.

I think the x170 is the first product from Clevo looking interesting since a long time and rivals the R2. Looks are subjective, fair point. However, we have to see, if they manage to craft a better cooling system than in the R2 (warped heatsinks anyone?). I just want to say AW is not all bad in my experience and Clevo is not all good. That AW may castrate the R2 according to their latest agenda is possible but pure speculation atm.

 

The m15 and m17 R3 can be undervolted regarding first reports. This is of course no guarantee that AW will not implement this restriction in the future.

 

Me either. But from what I've gathered from the few people that have delidded 9900k in there Area 51m it was almost a requirement to keep it cool. So most likely gonna be that same story with a 10 core cpu. Hence why I'm waiting for HIDevolution to get these in stock so I can get a delidded CPU right out the gate. If the 10900K is too much to cool I'll step down to the 10700K.

But, why would you use a machine that you NEED to find tricks to work around a flawed software crippled machine? The R1 had alot of promise at launch. But over this last year they really did their best to cripple the laptop instead of fixing the issues. The X170 is looking like it will be able to do everything the 51m R2 can do but better. Plus it doesn't have the proprietary dell mxm cards and looks like it uses standard versions. Which means so long as future GPU's have the same format you could update the X170 to a new GPU. The upgrade kits for Dell are gone. So if you wanted to get a new GPU for your 51m you can't. I'll be keeping a close eye on the 51m. I love the look. I just don't love the company selling them.

 

EVOC High Performance Systems P870TM-R - 17.3 - i9-9900K - RTX 2070/2080

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-g-owners-lounge.831618/page-77#post-11023403

If you want RTX in SLI for your benching addiction you can do that as well...
https://hwbot.org/submission/413469...ke_2x_geforce_rtx_2080_(notebook)_31945_marks

 

The AW51m r2 uses a large vapor chamber with bigger fans. The thermals are quite a bit better than the last revision. Tbh, from the testing we did, I can say it has been better than the X170SM-G test unit. I can’t say any more info about the 51m now, but Clevo needs to do better than what they have done, or else X170SM-G may be a tough sell.

P.S the X170SM-G just needs a vapor chamber for the cpu to solve a lot of issues.

 

I think the 10 core would certainly appreciate it.

 

WOW! thanks bro, didn´t know such a thing exists. However, if you want modern small bezel design, newest cpu gen, high refresh screen (240-300 Hz) it gets difficult. I think at this point the P870 line is done. We will have to wait and see if the x170 is really superior to the R2. And then I´m wondering if MSI may come out with a new Titan. Clevo hasn´t won the race yet, in fact it hasn´t even started ;-)

 

I can't see MSI will change direction. The GT76 need full re-design to fits MXM graphics. Won't happen. Nothing from their promo showing or naming upgradeable graphics https://www.msi.com/Laptop/GT76-Titan-10SX

What they offer is a refreshed Jokebook with a normal Cpu. Only LGA socket won't change the facts...


Regarding what will come from Dell... Same locked firmware and proprietary Apps instead for advanced settings in bios..

Everything is better than what will come from MSI.

 

Upgradability has been quite good actually, RTX 2080 and 2080S work in the P870, even after it's officially been EOL'd, as well as 9900Kx and 9900KS. And you have ram speed going several hundreds over official spec, 3000>3700MT/s. And I expect panels above 144hz will be swappable once they become available. Not a bad for a 3 year old chassis, and that's not even mentioning brother @Papusan s P870 that sports a 9900K on a z170 chipset It's not a perfect machine true especially with the heatsink lottery, but @Prema liberates these machines from cancerous firmware and allows them to truly to spread their wings and reach their full potential. While the other party only tightens the firmware bolts tighter with each bios rendition.

The community behind these machines makes a big difference, we do not keep rolling back and forth the bios updates is hopes of extra performance. We find real ways to further improve upon the existing chassis and work out the factory kinks. Be it the custom heatspreaders, 3rd party fans, watercooling, vaporchambers, hardware mods or tiny bios tweaks. Which I really enjoy being a part of and being able to contribute.

 

Hint hint? Wink wink?

 

Yeah, the two more cores than intended need it’s cooling.

 

Especially two power hungry cores.

 

More vapor chamber = more better

 

Not both going to fit in the same chassis though

 

No, it was a joke pic comparing the sheer size of P775TM1 GPU heatsink against the P870TM1 Dual-GPU vapor chamber.

 

Not all that different if you slice it in half or compare two of the heatsinks on the left.

 

That is until you compare temperatures between the two, when both are equally met size for size.

 

AW51m? You’ve got to be joking. How does a DGFF slot with no upgrade kits even available somehow excuse it having locked slow RAM and a locked down BIOS to prevent explosions? It’s a terrible piece of engineering.

It sounds like you’d buy an actual turd if it came with an expandable graphics slot

How are people even considering the R2 after what happened with the R1? Why even buy into notebooks plagued with endless issues? And why are “enthusiasts” like poopoosan implying it’s better than alternatives that have no issues? This forum

 

For a single card though a smaller vapor chamber and more fins is going to be better though.

 

I await the mod from you then, half a p870tm vapor chamber and added fins.

Even if it's DGFF slot does post a fire hazard, it's still not a soldered turd.

 

Ok so you have nothing intelligent to add then.

 

You wrote about "terrible piece of engineering" and I spoke on it not only being limited to the 51M.

 

I just want to mention that I bought the Area-51m a month ago, 9700-2080, and out of the box everything has been perfect. The design and thermals have been amazing and its the best laptop I have ever owned out of the dozens of gaming laptops I have purchased over the years. Just food for thought for any prospective buyers out there, not everyones opinion about it are the same.

 

Swappable GPUs have nothing to do with engineering, that’s a design decision. It’s just a connector that accepts a daughter board. MXM and DGFF are otherwise identical BGA solutions to other laptops.

There is, however, definitely a difference between LGA and BGA CPUs: performance, thermals, and binning are completely different and better for LGA.

If you think differently, maybe say why using words that aren’t just synonyms for fecal matter.

 

After seeing this, I am so over this!
All my scores are gone yet again....SMH!

 

Perhaps you should heed your own advice then. Soldered BGA GPU is not identical to MXM, they are on two entirely different levels of engineering. But you're right about design choice, one requires a simple change, should the MXM graphics need replacing. While the other requires entirely new motherboard.

 

Again?! From 3Dmark or the bot this time?

 

This is the exact setup I went with when I tried the Area 51m. Ran much cooler than the 9900k and got the same FPS in games. And saved a few bucks. But of course there are always those that want to highest end even if it isn’t worth it. But once people start getting their hands on the R2 we will see how much it’s been improved. I have a sneaking Suspicion getting the cpu delidded is going to go a long way still.

 

The bot as usual.. Ok on 3dm https://www.3dmark.com/search?_ga=2.133668366.105661823.1592834867-646031772.1590743661#/?mode=advanced&url=/proxycon/ajax/search2/gpu/spy/P/1244/500000?minScore=0&gpuName=NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 (Notebook)&gpuCount=0

The bot can’t keep posted scores on the leaderboard. A huge mess.

 

Running two cards

 

Yea, cutting up that 400W vapor chamber would almost be sacrilegious.

 

I do find the death of SLI to be sad

I guess single cards are now the price of old SLI setups so Nvidia is not missing out

 

The reality of this statement makes me sad.

 

The Area-51m performed better than the MSI GT76 in almost every review I saw. Not to mention the DGFF card can be replaced unlike the soldered GPU in the MSI. Is that 200w vBIOS you are using on your RTX 2080 from the AW? Because MSI released them with a 150W vBIOS.

I'd love to see a CB20 stock and OC from the GT76 actually. I don't remember seeing CPU performance on it.

Does this only happen to your laptop results or also desktop results?

BTW good to see you around.

It's unfortunate. Even the upgrade paths for older laptops are basically going from their SLI set-up to a single card.

I enjoyed SLI while it was alive.

 

I want Ti/90 cards as compensation

 

Now THAT is the only thing that I would be okay with replacing SLI.

A nice 3080Ti full power 250W TDP in a laptop.

 

Even if you had to pair it with a 4900H (with some extra power options open) it would be fun.

 

Errr no it comes with a 200W VBIOS. Yes that’s the Alienware way. Release a laptop and once it’s reviewed, then stop it being flammable by neutering it with lowered power and temp limits. The GT76 has Optimus, so it will lose slightly without an external monitor, and it usually beats the 51M in CPU tests. A 5 minute google could have told you all of this though.

But by all means, defend flammable laptops

Good thing too as DGFF is likely to burst into flames. And when they do you can replace it... except they don’t sell the kits anymore

please, continue to try defend it. This is why AW will sell a ton of the R2

 

Not defending it, in fact if you read my posts three pages back, or in the AW subforums, you would see my views on these matters. I've slammed both the X170 and 51M plenty, as well as my own P870.
I don't blindly defend a product that I'm invested in to make myself feel better.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-g-owners-lounge.831618/page-86#post-11025434
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-g-owners-lounge.831618/page-87#post-11025507

 

Actually AW continued to improve the BIOS/vBIOS from launch. BIOS 1.2.0--->1.5.0 updates all improved things, even power limits were increased.

I have a day 1 launch Area-51m and mine hasn't exploded and caught fire. Not every single one did this, I assume most people are fine but the cases with issues was definitely higher.

BIOS 1.7.x+ brought the 79C thermal limit on GPU, as of right now anyone can downgrade to 1.5.0. Yes it sucks, we will see how R2 is handled.

The laptop itself is very good. With BIOS 1.5.0 and 200w vBIOS it performs very well and I plan to stay on those versions. RAM XMP was the biggest issue and still is. They changed the 2080 components in March, unfortunately they added the stupid 79C temp limit.

I own a MSI GT73VR
I owned Clevo P750WM/P870DM/P870DM3

I do not defend a Area-51m just because I own one, I defend it because people who do not own one don't seem to have a clue.

Regarding the upgrade kits, they were taken down due to covid-19. Umar said the kits requires someone to come to your home to perform the upgrade. Whether this is true or not, we will see.

When the 2080S is out, I am sure someone will find a way to get it to work in the R1(maybe me we will see hehe). When the 3000 series is out, I am sure people will try putting it in R1/R2. We have a DGFF form factor, and that gives us hope and a chance to get it to work. BGA in the meantime is stuck forever.

BTW if your GPU fried, your whole motherboard needs to be replaced, if a DGFF fries, just need a GPU.

 

You’re a true enthusiast when you can talk down on your own machine.